Major recruiting problems....

[burghcock]

Okay, I haven't weighed in on this because I don't follow recruiting too closely unless it involves a player I know. As some of you might be aware I have known and been good friends with Kash Daniel's family for almost 30 years. I worked for and with his granddad and have a great deal of respect for Kash's dad and his uncle, so I have followed Kash's recruiting with great interest. I can tell you that USC did not drop the ball on Kash. We were in on him early and offered right after the Charlotte Rival's camp where he excelled. When he came to the Showcase the HBC spent 45 minutes talking with Kash's dad. The HBC didn't have to do that but he wanted to show the Daniel family that Kash was important to the program and that the HBC would help groom him to play at the next level if his talent would take him there. The USC staff stayed in contact after the showcase right up to Kash's announcement. We lost out because the flagship university of his state, a school he had long loved as a child and which was recruiting other kids he had played against ( or with in some All Star programs) wanted him to play for them. That's a tough offer to turn down, especially when the Big Blue Nation is constantly in your ear.
I recognize the HBC has his own way of recruiting and not everyone on this board likes it. But at least in this case no one from USC dropped the ball. Kash is a great kid, from a great family. I like that the HBC recruits not only talented kids, but kids that are good citizens and would make the University proud. We missed on Kash, but not because the HBC didn't give it his best effort.

 

[Number1pjones]

The bottom line is, that if you are going to have a recruiting strategy that relies pretty much entirely on having a good season the year before or on being better than your major instate rival, like we have. Than you better have a good season, or show that you are better than your instate rival pretty much every year or that recruiting strategy is not going to work. And if that strategy starts failing you better have some back up strategy. Keeping you head up and your fingers crossed is not a strategy.

Wow. If that isn't the gospel truth. The Gamecocks have to rely on successful football seasons, because of the weak football tradition. We remember George Rogers, Joe Morrison and 1984, but that was way before the current crop of recruits were even born. We have to get back to 9-3 to be respectable or impressive to recruits.

 

[FORKCOCK]

Dabo knows he's not a gameday coach but he makes up for it by being one of the top recruiters in the country. Recruiting is something he focuses on 24/7. Let's face it, we're not ever going to get that from Spurrier or our current recruiting coordinator. Neither one of them fear losing their job.

 

[FreeSC]

Dabo knows he's not a gameday coach but he makes up for it by being one of the top recruiters in the country. Recruiting is something he focuses on 24/7. Let's face it, we're not ever going to get that from Spurrier or our current recruiting coordinator. Neither one of them fear losing their job.

I know that is a huge talking point over here, accepted as gospel.
Dabo is a great recruiter, but the fact is that NCAA regs severely limit the recruiting that a HC can do. Overwhelmingly, recruiting is done by assistants. 2 Clemson assistants were ranked among the top 25 recruiters nationwide in the last Rivals rating: Tony Elliot and Jeff Scott.

 

[superflyby]

Okay, I haven't weighed in on this because I don't follow recruiting too closely unless it involves a player I know. As some of you might be aware I have known and been good friends with Kash Daniel's family for almost 30 years. I worked for and with his granddad and have a great deal of respect for Kash's dad and his uncle, so I have followed Kash's recruiting with great interest. I can tell you that USC did not drop the ball on Kash. We were in on him early and offered right after the Charlotte Rival's camp where he excelled. When he came to the Showcase the HBC spent 45 minutes talking with Kash's dad. The HBC didn't have to do that but he wanted to show the Daniel family that Kash was important to the program and that the HBC would help groom him to play at the next level if his talent would take him there. The USC staff stayed in contact after the showcase right up to Kash's announcement. We lost out because the flagship university of his state, a school he had long loved as a child and which was recruiting other kids he had played against ( or with in some All Star programs) wanted him to play for them. That's a tough offer to turn down, especially when the Big Blue Nation is constantly in your ear.
I recognize the HBC has his own way of recruiting and not everyone on this board likes it. But at least in this case no one from USC dropped the ball. Kash is a great kid, from a great family. I like that the HBC recruits not only talented kids, but kids that are good citizens and would make the University proud. We missed on Kash, but not because the HBC didn't give it his best effort.

Then I can accept the fact that this kid chose another avenue if we gave it our all. I can tell you that is not the case with every recruit according to the recruits themselves. If they give it there all....that's all they can do. If they are missing on some kids because of contact....that is a problem that needs to be addressed. I have seen this pop up for the last few years. "Haven't heard from South Carolina in a while"...that should be the staffs moniker. They are certainly living it. We have a great opportunity and it's slipping away.

 

[basses]

Spurrier only shows up on game days.

We will fall steadily behind until we have a new, younger head coach.

I am eternally greatful for the attention and success Spurrier had brought us but we are getting our lunches handed to us on the recruiting trail.

Someone go tell Dawn Staley that having all those high profile recruits isn't necessary. . .

That's right, just like the end of the Holtz years. Holtz was never around until game day. Skip ran most of the business. We are headed down the same road and Tanner will allow it to happen.

 

[topixfocus]

We had one average season in the last 4 and all the negative nancies come out of the woodwork. We lost out on a couple out of state guys and the world is ending.

See...this right here is where the pumpers drive me crazy. We haven't had "one average season in the last 4", we have had 4 good seasons in over 100. This last year wasn't a blip in our history, it IS our history and I, for one, cringe at the thought of going back to mediocrity. But then again, I'm a Gamecock and want them to succeed instead of making excuses for it.

Before anyone gets nitpicky over it, I understand we have had sprinkled in success, but as a whole, we have been mediocre to less than mediocre for the majority of our history.

 

[Superior7]

It's not just the fans who are not willing to accept anything less that 10-11 wins seasons. The best recruits don't want to play for mediocre South Carolina of old, or mediocre South Carolina the new version.

This is what I don't understand. You say we have mediocre recruits and you have never seen players like Roscoe Crosby, Terry Googer, or Shaq Davidson play a down. Go look at their offer list and tell me why I should think they are mediocre?

 

[jonesz21]

I know that is a huge talking point over here, accepted as gospel.
Dabo is a great recruiter, but the fact is that NCAA regs severely limit the recruiting that a HC can do. Overwhelmingly, recruiting is done by assistants. 2 Clemson assistants were ranked among the top 25 recruiters nationwide in the last Rivals rating: Tony Elliot and Jeff Scott.

Well we should hire one of them taters so they can show us how to get a top 25 recruiter. What do our coaches rank?

 

[sandlapper59]

See...this right here is where the pumpers drive me crazy. We haven't had "one average season in the last 4", we have had 4 good seasons in over 100. This last year wasn't a blip in our history, it IS our history and I, for one, cringe at the thought of going back to mediocrity. But then again, I'm a Gamecock and want them to succeed instead of making excuses for it.

Before anyone gets nitpicky over it, I understand we have had sprinkled in success, but as a whole, we have been mediocre to less than mediocre for the majority of our history.

If you insist on calling all who post on here that are not greatly disappointed in the Gamecock recruits, their recruiters and the coaches "sunshine pumpers", then you must accept the label of "gloom and doomer" or "chicken little", whichever you prefer. I am not either of these and suspect that most here are in neither category either. I guess I see the glass as half full and just waiting to see if it gets filled or otherwise. I see myself as a realist who can take the hand as dealed and make the best of it. When I have been a competitor, I always looked at those who complained about the conditions we played under as easier prey since they were often looking for an excuse when they lose.

Most people think little David was certain to lose against giant Goliath. The truth is that Goliath, weighted down with armor, brought a sword to a gun fight and had no chance against a nimble shepherd boy experienced in fighting wolves off his flock of sheep with his sling and rocks.

Every action has an equal and opposite criticism.

 

[Number1pjones]

See...this right here is where the pumpers drive me crazy. We haven't had "one average season in the last 4", we have had 4 good seasons in over 100. This last year wasn't a blip in our history, it IS our history and I, for one, cringe at the thought of going back to mediocrity. But then again, I'm a Gamecock and want them to succeed instead of making excuses for it.

Before anyone gets nitpicky over it, I understand we have had sprinkled in success, but as a whole, we have been mediocre to less than mediocre for the majority of our history.

I agree with absolutely everything you stated. I will readily admit that I am scared to death that we will go right back to the middle of the pack in the SEC. Or the bottom of the barrel. IMO, the program and fans have to face facts. There are more questions than answers about the product on the field in 2015. Our recruiting is not very impressive right now. The difficult job of recruiting at South Carolina has raised it's ugly head again. We have a mediocre at best history and Spurrier had us on the edge of elite status. But the Gamecocks did not break through when they had everything in their favor. Curse? No! But maybe a lack of preparation and some strategic mistakes in very important games.

But let's not forget 1984. After three 11 wins seasons, 1984 has been overshadowed and has lost some of it's luster. But we were ranked #2 in the country, before the loss to Navy. We were closer to a NC in 1984, than any of Spurrier's 11 win seasons. My point? I think this program can compete at the highest level and win at the highest level. Even before Spurrier came to Columbia, I thought it was possible for South Carolina to compete with any team. 1984 is the proof. You can throw in the 9-3 Holtz teams as well. I'm just concerned that we missed some golden opportunities and might go back to being permanently mediocre. Last season was not a good sign.

 

[basses]

I agree with absolutely everything you stated. I will readily admit that I am scared to death that we will go right back to the middle of the pack in the SEC. Or the bottom of the barrel. IMO, the program and fans have to face facts. There are more questions than answers about the product on the field in 2015. Our recruiting is not very impressive right now. The difficult job of recruiting at South Carolina has raised it's ugly head again. We have a mediocre at best history and Spurrier had us on the edge of elite status. But the Gamecocks did not break through when they had everything in their favor. Curse? No! But maybe a lack of preparation and some strategic mistakes in very important games.

But let's not forget 1984. After three 11 wins seasons, 1984 has been overshadowed and has lost some of it's luster. But we were ranked #2 in the country, before the loss to Navy. We were closer to a NC in 1984, than any of Spurrier's 11 win seasons. My point? I think this program can compete at the highest level and win at the highest level. Even before Spurrier came to Columbia, I thought it was possible for South Carolina to compete with any team. 1984 is the proof. You can throw in the 9-3 Holtz teams as well. I'm just concerned that we missed some golden opportunities and might go back to being permanently mediocre. Last season was not a good sign.

So what, in 84 we were not in the SEC. Has everything to do with it. Schedule for 84 was not that impressive.

 

[bitemeiptay]

This "string" has outlived it's usefulness. Opinion, opinion,opinion. (yawn)

 

[usaguy40]

Same to you on the 4th. I learned a long time ago that golf was too expensive and I was not good enough to justify the cost...lol.

hell, play like we used to play.....we called it "Bolf".....we combined drinking and golf....whatever your final score was you got to subtract the total number of beers you drank....i.e. if you shot a 100 and drank 18 beers, you actually shot an 82

 

[CockPete]

I think you can see what we are dealing with here by the number of times these complainers use the word DUDE.

 

[superflyby]

I think you can see what we are dealing with here by the number of times these complainers use the word DUDE.

I like the word dude......

 

[CockPete]

Proves my point.

 

[Laziness]

So what, in 84 we were not in the SEC. Has everything to do with it. Schedule for 84 was not that impressive.

The schedule for 1984 had Georgia, Pitt, Florida St., Notre Dame, and Clemson on it. What would you consider impressive??

 

[superflyby]

Proves my point.

Dude it's all good....lol

 

[basses]

The schedule for 1984 had Georgia, Pitt, Florida St., Notre Dame, and Clemson on it. What would you consider impressive??

Might be big time names but both FSU, Pitt and Notre Dame were not that good.

 

[coxman]

Dude, I am talking about are we willing to spend the money to bring in a proven winner. what would it cost to get a Saban, Urban, Chip Kelly, Pat Summit in their prime?
Yes Spurrier and Staley have great salaries now. But, we brought staley in at $250,000 and Spurrier in at 1,250,000 that didn't really break the bank.

Staley got $600k which was more than Tanner was making and nearly as much as Horn. At the time it seemed very stupid and unnecessary to pay her that much. I don't remember what Spurrier got but it included a fat budget for asst. coaches.

 

[world famous 3rd base hecklers]

Might be big time names but both FSU, Pitt and Notre Dame were not that good.

FSU was ranked in the top 5 at the time we played them.

 

[basses]

FSU was ranked in the top 5 at the time we played them.

Give you that one, but Georgia was 7-4, ND 7-4, Taters 7-4 and Pitt had losing record.

 

[world famous 3rd base hecklers]

Give you that one, but Georgia was 7-4, ND 7-4, Taters 7-4 and Pitt had losing record.

Georgia came into Columbia undefeated and ranked in the top 10 after Walker left and we haven't beaten UGA since 1979 and the same can be said about Clemson play Clemson up there.

So you really take our victories away from UGA and Clemson. Both games we were underdogs.

I was in the sidelines with the team against UGA when Hold three that 50+ yard bomb to set up the winning TD.

That was a great game at that time.

 

[basses]

Georgia came into Columbia undefeated and ranked in the top 10 after Walker left and we haven't beaten UGA since 1979 and the same can be said about Clemson play Clemson up there.

So you really take our victories away from UGA and Clemson. Both games we were underdogs.

I was in the sidelines with the team against UGA when Hold three that 50+ yard bomb to set up the winning TD.

That was a great game at that time.

Undefeated at 2-0, whoa!!

 

[world famous 3rd base hecklers]

Undefeated at 2-0, whoa!!

Yeah, 2-0... We were 2-0 and could have been 2-1...

UGA had our number..

 

[Laziness]

Granted those teams didn't have the record they expected, maybe because instead of the normal wins against us they took losses, but those teams ranking in the preseason poll was 3,4,8,and 20. Georgia was not ranked preseason, but was ranked 12th when we played. A bit unfair to say our schedule was unimpressive. That's like saying us beating Alabama a few years ago wasn't that impressive because they only went 5-3 in the SEC.

 

[jonesz21]

Staley got $600k which was more than Tanner was making and nearly as much as Horn. At the time it seemed very stupid and unnecessary to pay her that much. I don't remember what Spurrier got but it included a fat budget for asst. coaches.[/QUOTE

Staleys base salary was $250,000. Total package was $650

 

[ReadR00ster]

Why the hell is anyone talking about 1984 and 1979. Who cares? It's 2015. Be good now, good enough to impress recruits, that is all that matters.

 

[Bigger_Stronger_Faster]

So we are recruiting ones we don't want ????Really dude ???

Come on man, you're smarter than that.

 

[Bigger_Stronger_Faster]

Do you realize how many players we actually offer scholarships to? I'm not sure but if I had to guess I'd say it was over 100. There are limits placed on how much a head coach can contact recruits so he cannot talk to everyone. I know Spurrier doesn't get after recruits as much as some head coaches. He tends to allow his assistants to do most of that and it has worked fairly well throughout his career.

The problem with these people here is just like the argument with global warming.They're using an argument that can't be proved or disproved.

I agree with you about the numbers, but I think you're wrong that Spurrier "doesn't get after" recruits. I think he does things the way he always has...with his asst's doing the day to day work...but he stays on top of it. But I believe his biggest, and misconceived, principle is that he wants 1) kids to take their visits and be sure USC is where they want to play, help build the program and help accomplish things that the program has never accomplished (much like himself) and 2) be sure it's the college they want to attend to get a degree that will serve them after their playing days are over (which is the majority of them)...all because he's big on players enjoying the college experience and genuinely cares about their future. I know it's old scholl, and people that just follow USC sports because they want to see them win probably disagree. But Spurriers speaks of these things ever day. They are his core beliefs and principles and he's not going to change them for anyone or anything.

But that doesn't change the fact that he wants to win. And it doesn't change the fact that he wants the best players. He's just not going to compromise his values for the sake of winning at any cost. And he feels confident that his asst coaches are capable of handling the day to day job of working computers and smart phones...things he isn't going to try to do at his age. Well wait...he did start a twitter account, but that's different. If you know anything about recruiting...well, I'll just say SOS doesn't and never will have a trac-phone...or multiple phones with fake email accounts...or some of the things other coaching staffs do. Doesn't mean our other coaches don't though...

This entire post is nil. Like I said...there's not a thing posted here that can be proved or disproved. But, I guess some people have to have something to discuss, complain or just jaw about!

 

[Laziness]

The problem with these people here is just like the argument with global warming.They're using an argument that can't be proved or disproved.

I agree with you about the numbers, but I think you're wrong that Spurrier "doesn't get after" recruits. I think he does things the way he always has...with his asst's doing the day to day work...but he stays on top of it. But I believe his biggest, and misconceived, principle is that he wants 1) kids to take their visits and be sure USC is where they want to play, help build the program and help accomplish things that the program has never accomplished (much like himself) and 2) be sure it's the college they want to attend to get a degree that will serve them after their playing days are over (which is the majority of them)...all because he's big on players enjoying the college experience and genuinely cares about their future. I know it's old scholl, and people that just follow USC sports because they want to see them win probably disagree. But Spurriers speaks of these things ever day. They are his core beliefs and principles and he's not going to change them for anyone or anything.

But that doesn't change the fact that he wants to win. And it doesn't change the fact that he wants the best players. He's just not going to compromise his values for the sake of winning at any cost. And he feels confident that his asst coaches are capable of handling the day to day job of working computers and smart phones...things he isn't going to try to do at his age. Well wait...he did start a twitter account, but that's different. If you know anything about recruiting...well, I'll just say SOS doesn't and never will have a trac-phone...or multiple phones with fake email accounts...or some of the things other coaching staffs do. Doesn't mean our other coaches don't though...

This entire post is nil. Like I said...there's not a thing posted here that can be proved or disproved. But, I guess some people have to have something to discuss, complain or just jaw about!

Truthfully, everyone knew before Spurrier got here that he wasn't the most hands on coach with recruiting. However, he was such a good coach that he could get away with having slightly less talented players than others and still win. It was a tradeoff worth taking to have him here. His name alone carried enough weight to get us in on a lot of kids. Our overall talent level increased pretty dramatically. Then we got the benefit of having some exceptional talent in state for a few years with Gilmore, Alshon, Lattimore, and Clowney. We got to experience what it was like to have a powerhouse team. Then those exceptional talents moved on, and we have not replaced them with equal talent which has frustrated a lot of people who are afraid we will slip back down to middle of the pack.

The "2 or 3 more years" comment was one of the worst mistakes Spurrier has made since he has been here. I don't even think that can be argued. That will be a cement block tied to our recruiting as long as he is here. So the only way to overcome that is to show the recruits you are engaged, stepping up your efforts, and that you are full of energy and enthusiasm. When coach made a twitter account, I thought that was a great first step showing he was going to be more involved. So to hear about the two stories last week was disappointing. Felt like more of the same old, same old. I hope I am just wrong, and we sign a great class, but I don't believe just letting the assistants carry the torch in recruiting is going to be enough anymore.

 

[saint74]

the fact is the school in the upstate has way more appeal then us in the city! not to mention they are kicking our butts in recruiting! we had a few years of getting he better recruits but now it has shifted! clemson is getting high profile recruits from our state they are going to get simpson ,lamar,and most likely pickney! we have to do something to change the momentum here! if not we are doomed! our recruiters are on the same level as the taters right now!

 

[basses]

the fact is the school in the upstate has way more appeal then us in the city! not to mention they are kicking our butts in recruiting! we had a few years of getting he better recruits but now it has shifted! clemson is getting high profile recruits from our state they are going to get simpson ,lamar,and most likely pickney! we have to do something to change the momentum here! if not we are doomed! our recruiters are on the same level as the taters right now!

Bad as I don't want to admit, you are exactly correct.....Kids love the attention that the taters are giving them while we spend time on the golf course.

 

[GoLongT]

the fact is the school in the upstate has way more appeal then us in the city! not to mention they are kicking our butts in recruiting! we had a few years of getting he better recruits but now it has shifted! clemson is getting high profile recruits from our state they are going to get simpson ,lamar,and most likely pickney! we have to do something to change the momentum here! if not we are doomed! our recruiters are on the same level as the taters right now!

First of all tater stop using the word we. If clemsux is that much better at getting recruits than us then you need to go look at their roster. They have 3 offensive tackles and 2 are freshmen lmao. They have some good recievers but as an overall team we are more solid. And I will take Connor Mitch over a gimpy QB that cant play more than 1 game without being hurt anyday. We are way better off at running back than they are. We're set at LB, DB and D-line for the next couple of years. Im tired of the taters coming over here posing as Carolina fans talking trash about our team and they don't know anything about what they're talking about. you're just making yourself look like idiots

 

[funktavious]

the fact is the school in the upstate has way more appeal then us in the city! not to mention they are kicking our butts in recruiting! we had a few years of getting he better recruits but now it has shifted! clemson is getting high profile recruits from our state they are going to get simpson ,lamar,and most likely pickney! we have to do something to change the momentum here! if not we are doomed! our recruiters are on the same level as the taters right now!

Where do you get the notion that Clemson has more appeal? Most young men would rather be in the city where everything is at. I would think that it would get pretty boring at Clemson. How many times can you suck on a chili dog at the Tasty Freeze before you want something else?

 

[MANAFOLD]

I disagree we are going back to the middle of the pack. See my post( best offense ever?). With regard to recruiting, we can only take 20 this year and it is a known fact that our coaches are being very selective because so. If we don't get all the big timers we are after, I am very confident they will have a very good plan B. Enjoy this new season and let recruiting play out.

 

[Bigger_Stronger_Faster]

the fact is the school in the upstate has way more appeal then us in the city! not to mention they are kicking our butts in recruiting! we had a few years of getting he better recruits but now it has shifted! clemson is getting high profile recruits from our state they are going to get simpson ,lamar,and most likely pickney! we have to do something to change the momentum here! if not we are doomed! our recruiters are on the same level as the taters right now!

 

[TinCupCock]

I have a question only partially related. Does everyone here believe that when a recruit receives daily emails or texts or twitter messages from say Saban or Swinney or Harbaugh, that that message is actually being typed in by the Head Coach? Is it possible that assistants, administrative staff or GAs are sending these messages. Social Media being such a big deal these days, I can see certain coaches doing this (Cough,, Dabo!). Personally I think its deceitful, but the game is to make the recruit believe you are solely focused on him.

 

[BeantownTigerFan10]

In years when Clemson was down, and getting our a** handed to us by scar, I was the one in the WEZ calling for Dabo's job, saying he was soft and Spurrier's mentality was what we needed in our HC, so i figure I could offer my persepective on this.

I come on here now and i see folks calling for spurrier job, and I wonder if some people on here truly understand what he's done for your program during his tenure.

He may not be recruiting at a high level like he used to be, but thats as much on your AD/recruiting coordinator as it is Spurrier. As a poster mentioned previously, the HC can only do so much recruiting durign the year, a lot of it falls on the assistants, which is the true weakeness of your program right now.

Your AD doesnt need to force Spurrier out, he needs to force him to hire guys that will be the new face of the program/potential program leaders. Spurrier's ego will probably prevent this from happening (Dabo's did not after his .500 season), but it needs to, or 5 years from now you'll be buildling you first good class again, and wondering when the next time you'll ahve a run at the SEC trophy will be.

I enjoy watching the spurrier empire crumble, but the dude is still one of the great college fb minds, surrounded by a weak supporting cast, and the finger should be pointed at a few different people in your ADepartment.