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South Carolina Baseball - A Realistic Perspective

Garnet Man

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Feb 5, 2003
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While it's become the thing here by some to instantly blame the coaches for when things aren't going well....let's put a perspective on what is being said. We won back to back national championships. The first one was won on the spiritual back on an incredible little boy named Baylor Teal who gave a talented team a perspective on the game related to life that allowed them to come through in clutch moments and also because a bullpen pitcher who was a middle reliever evolved into being the best pitcher in CWS history. To win the second national championship it took miraculous play after play and some fortunate "bounces' in the games against UVA and Florida. Again...it was meant to be.

So now as the result of that, anything short of Omaha seems to be the standard expectation here.
The truth is nobody goes to Omaha every year. Nobody.

Coach Holbrook inherited a team with some talent his first year...but please look at everything objectively.
Yes...the trend is not headed in the right direction...but the truth is we don't have the same caliber players we had during our championship runs. The teams that have beaten us the last two years in the Super Regionals and the Regionals were quite frankly better than we were at that time of year. This year's team has a bunch of very hard working players...some great players...great young men who are giving their all but as a team don't rise to the level of past teams.

Please try to think fairly about the players on the national championship teams on which expectations now seem to be built year in and year out no matter who the players are now. Those teams had the perfect blend of team chemistry and talent.

Many of the players were not stars...some were. Christian Walker was one of the best players in the country coming out of high school and so was Jackie Bradley Jr and both became great college players and look like they have a chance to make a go of it in the majors. Adrian Morales was one of the toughest players who held other players accountable and was an inspirational fireball while Michael Roth was the fun and free spirit. That was a good combo on and off the field. Good balance. Whit Merrifield was an incredible talent and one of the most clutch hitters we have ever had. Scott Wingo was a good defensive player and an average hitter until his senior year when he when captured lightning in a bottle in every way...but from day one he would "battle" you and absolutely refuse to lose. Brady Thomas was clutch. Robert Beary was a player who could fill in anywhere, the MVP of the 2011 Columbia Regional and he and Wingo made game saving play after game saving play in the CWS finals against Florida. Blake Cooper, Sam Dyson, and yes...the incomparable Michael Roth and Matt Price. Had some great middle relievers on those teams too like John Taylor who could throw everyday and still be effective. Tremendous blend of talent and chemistry and Coach Holbrook was part of helping to blend all that talent along with Coach Tanner, Coach Calvi when he was here, and Coach Meyer.

These guys didn't all of a sudden forget how to coach. Just look honestly at now who is on this team and it is not the same kind of talent and chemistry. Good kids...good players...but it's just not the same level of talent guys. Any comparison and quite frankly expectations IMO...are not fair. Everybody goes through a "dip"...and It's okay to hope and expect to win. But some of you are posting like you have control of anything related to the program about "the only way I see this coach this and this coach that"...and that's just not living in reality.

Just remember, one of best coaches ever, Ray Tanner, is watching. Both he and Coach Holbrook are good men and good coaches. We trusted them enough to lead us to two national championships. Let me repeat that...TWO NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS!! Think for a school that had not ever won a major national championship prior to that...think we owe a debt of gratitude to coaches who helped us achieve that and as a result think the least we can do is show some patience and continue to support them and trust them to figure out how to right the ship. Thank you.
 
While it's become the thing here by some to instantly blame the coaches for when things aren't going well....let's put a perspective on what is being said. We won back to back national championships. The first one was won on the spiritual back on an incredible little boy named Baylor Teal who gave a talented team a perspective on the game related to life that allowed them to come through in clutch moments and also because a bullpen pitcher who was a middle reliever evolved into being the best pitcher in CWS history. To win the second national championship it took miraculous play after play and some fortunate "bounces' in the games against UVA and Florida. Again...it was meant to be.

So now as the result of that, anything short of Omaha seems to be the standard expectation here.
The truth is nobody goes to Omaha every year. Nobody.

Coach Holbrook inherited a team with some talent his first year...but please look at everything objectively.
Yes...the trend is not headed in the right direction...but the truth is we don't have the same caliber players we had during our championship runs. The teams that have beaten us the last two years in the Super Regionals and the Regionals were quite frankly better than we were at that time of year. This year's team has a bunch of very hard working players...some great players...great young men who are giving their all but as a team don't rise to the level of past teams.

Please try to think fairly about the players on the national championship teams on which expectations now seem to be built year in and year out no matter who the players are now. Those teams had the perfect blend of team chemistry and talent.

Many of the players were not stars...some were. Christian Walker was one of the best players in the country coming out of high school and so was Jackie Bradley Jr and both became great college players and look like they have a chance to make a go of it in the majors. Adrian Morales was one of the toughest players who held other players accountable and was an inspirational fireball while Michael Roth was the fun and free spirit. That was a good combo on and off the field. Good balance. Whit Merrifield was an incredible talent and one of the most clutch hitters we have ever had. Scott Wingo was a good defensive player and an average hitter until his senior year when he when captured lightning in a bottle in every way...but from day one he would "battle" you and absolutely refuse to lose. Brady Thomas was clutch. Robert Beary was a player who could fill in anywhere, the MVP of the 2011 Columbia Regional and he and Wingo made game saving play after game saving play in the CWS finals against Florida. Blake Cooper, Sam Dyson, and yes...the incomparable Michael Roth and Matt Price. Had some great middle relievers on those teams too like John Taylor who could throw everyday and still be effective. Tremendous blend of talent and chemistry and Coach Holbrook was part of helping to blend all that talent along with Coach Tanner, Coach Calvi when he was here, and Coach Meyer.

These guys didn't all of a sudden forget how to coach. Just look honestly at now who is on this team and it is not the same kind of talent and chemistry. Good kids...good players...but it's just not the same level of talent guys. Any comparison and quite frankly expectations IMO...are not fair. Everybody goes through a "dip"...and It's okay to hope and expect to win. But some of you are posting like you have control of anything related to the program about "the only way I see this coach this and this coach that"...and that's just not living in reality.

Just remember, one of best coaches ever, Ray Tanner, is watching. Both he and Coach Holbrook are good men and good coaches. We trusted them enough to lead us to two national championships. Let me repeat that...TWO NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS!! Think for a school that had not ever won a major national championship prior to that...think we owe a debt of gratitude to coaches who helped us achieve that and as a result think the least we can do is show some patience and continue to support them and trust them to figure out how to right the ship. Thank you.
Well stated
 
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While it's become the thing here by some to instantly blame the coaches for when things aren't going well....let's put a perspective on what is being said. We won back to back national championships. The first one was won on the spiritual back on an incredible little boy named Baylor Teal who gave a talented team a perspective on the game related to life that allowed them to come through in clutch moments and also because a bullpen pitcher who was a middle reliever evolved into being the best pitcher in CWS history. To win the second national championship it took miraculous play after play and some fortunate "bounces' in the games against UVA and Florida. Again...it was meant to be.

So now as the result of that, anything short of Omaha seems to be the standard expectation here.
The truth is nobody goes to Omaha every year. Nobody.

Coach Holbrook inherited a team with some talent his first year...but please look at everything objectively.
Yes...the trend is not headed in the right direction...but the truth is we don't have the same caliber players we had during our championship runs. The teams that have beaten us the last two years in the Super Regionals and the Regionals were quite frankly better than we were at that time of year. This year's team has a bunch of very hard working players...some great players...great young men who are giving their all but as a team don't rise to the level of past teams.

Please try to think fairly about the players on the national championship teams on which expectations now seem to be built year in and year out no matter who the players are now. Those teams had the perfect blend of team chemistry and talent.

Many of the players were not stars...some were. Christian Walker was one of the best players in the country coming out of high school and so was Jackie Bradley Jr and both became great college players and look like they have a chance to make a go of it in the majors. Adrian Morales was one of the toughest players who held other players accountable and was an inspirational fireball while Michael Roth was the fun and free spirit. That was a good combo on and off the field. Good balance. Whit Merrifield was an incredible talent and one of the most clutch hitters we have ever had. Scott Wingo was a good defensive player and an average hitter until his senior year when he when captured lightning in a bottle in every way...but from day one he would "battle" you and absolutely refuse to lose. Brady Thomas was clutch. Robert Beary was a player who could fill in anywhere, the MVP of the 2011 Columbia Regional and he and Wingo made game saving play after game saving play in the CWS finals against Florida. Blake Cooper, Sam Dyson, and yes...the incomparable Michael Roth and Matt Price. Had some great middle relievers on those teams too like John Taylor who could throw everyday and still be effective. Tremendous blend of talent and chemistry and Coach Holbrook was part of helping to blend all that talent along with Coach Tanner, Coach Calvi when he was here, and Coach Meyer.

These guys didn't all of a sudden forget how to coach. Just look honestly at now who is on this team and it is not the same kind of talent and chemistry. Good kids...good players...but it's just not the same level of talent guys. Any comparison and quite frankly expectations IMO...are not fair. Everybody goes through a "dip"...and It's okay to hope and expect to win. But some of you are posting like you have control of anything related to the program about "the only way I see this coach this and this coach that"...and that's just not living in reality.

Just remember, one of best coaches ever, Ray Tanner, is watching. Both he and Coach Holbrook are good men and good coaches. We trusted them enough to lead us to two national championships. Let me repeat that...TWO NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS!! Think for a school that had not ever won a major national championship prior to that...think we owe a debt of gratitude to coaches who helped us achieve that and as a result think the least we can do is show some patience and continue to support them and trust them to figure out how to right the ship. Thank you.

Great post Garnet Man. A few posters on here that just keep posting the same old tiresome Fire Holbrook threads are not going to like this. They forget how hard it was to get to Omaha. How bleak it looked in 2010 with losing to Oklahoma and then having to face overall #1 seed Arizona State in the losers bracket. Fall behind Oklahoma again in the 12th inning, down to final out and 2 strikes on JBJ and a (some say) controversial call that goes our way giving him one more swing. Lightning in the first game and lightning in a bottle again for JBJ. 2011 with the injuries to the entire outfield, having to playing junior pitcher Steven Neff in center field for some games because he played there 3 to 4 years earlier in high school. Losing to Furman and the Citadel in midweek games. People just don't remember just what a battle it was. All they remember in Back To Back .
 
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I
While it's become the thing here by some to instantly blame the coaches for when things aren't going well....let's put a perspective on what is being said. We won back to back national championships. The first one was won on the spiritual back on an incredible little boy named Baylor Teal who gave a talented team a perspective on the game related to life that allowed them to come through in clutch moments and also because a bullpen pitcher who was a middle reliever evolved into being the best pitcher in CWS history. To win the second national championship it took miraculous play after play and some fortunate "bounces' in the games against UVA and Florida. Again...it was meant to be.

So now as the result of that, anything short of Omaha seems to be the standard expectation here.
The truth is nobody goes to Omaha every year. Nobody.

Coach Holbrook inherited a team with some talent his first year...but please look at everything objectively.
Yes...the trend is not headed in the right direction...but the truth is we don't have the same caliber players we had during our championship runs. The teams that have beaten us the last two years in the Super Regionals and the Regionals were quite frankly better than we were at that time of year. This year's team has a bunch of very hard working players...some great players...great young men who are giving their all but as a team don't rise to the level of past teams.

Please try to think fairly about the players on the national championship teams on which expectations now seem to be built year in and year out no matter who the players are now. Those teams had the perfect blend of team chemistry and talent.

Many of the players were not stars...some were. Christian Walker was one of the best players in the country coming out of high school and so was Jackie Bradley Jr and both became great college players and look like they have a chance to make a go of it in the majors. Adrian Morales was one of the toughest players who held other players accountable and was an inspirational fireball while Michael Roth was the fun and free spirit. That was a good combo on and off the field. Good balance. Whit Merrifield was an incredible talent and one of the most clutch hitters we have ever had. Scott Wingo was a good defensive player and an average hitter until his senior year when he when captured lightning in a bottle in every way...but from day one he would "battle" you and absolutely refuse to lose. Brady Thomas was clutch. Robert Beary was a player who could fill in anywhere, the MVP of the 2011 Columbia Regional and he and Wingo made game saving play after game saving play in the CWS finals against Florida. Blake Cooper, Sam Dyson, and yes...the incomparable Michael Roth and Matt Price. Had some great middle relievers on those teams too like John Taylor who could throw everyday and still be effective. Tremendous blend of talent and chemistry and Coach Holbrook was part of helping to blend all that talent along with Coach Tanner, Coach Calvi when he was here, and Coach Meyer.

These guys didn't all of a sudden forget how to coach. Just look honestly at now who is on this team and it is not the same kind of talent and chemistry. Good kids...good players...but it's just not the same level of talent guys. Any comparison and quite frankly expectations IMO...are not fair. Everybody goes through a "dip"...and It's okay to hope and expect to win. But some of you are posting like you have control of anything related to the program about "the only way I see this coach this and this coach that"...and that's just not living in reality.

Just remember, one of best coaches ever, Ray Tanner, is watching. Both he and Coach Holbrook are good men and good coaches. We trusted them enough to lead us to two national championships. Let me repeat that...TWO NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS!! Think for a school that had not ever won a major national championship prior to that...think we owe a debt of gratitude to coaches who helped us achieve that and as a result think the least we can do is show some patience and continue to support them and trust them to figure out how to right the ship. Thank you.

I question if Holbrook is the right man for the job. I do NOT question Ray Tanner's ability to oversee the baseball program. So if Ray says another year, that's good enough for me. The posters saying Tanner won't fire him because that's his buddy is a bunch of hogwash.
 
Looking at the roster this season, USC's baseball program had 5 seniors, 8 juniors, 11 sophomores, and 11 freshmen. That looks like a young roster to me. We relied on true freshmen Destino, Murray, and Schmidt for most of the season. Scolamiero, Taylor, Stokes, and Matt Williams look to be solid players in the years to come, if not leaders for the team.

We have a ton of sophomores who made up the meat of our team this season: Cone, Gore, Koch, Reagan, Scott, Widener. Crowe was a weekend starter until he was lost with Tommy John. Fr. Taylor kinda overtook Koch IMO in the late part of the season when he got hot at the plate. I thought both Cone and Gore would have great seasons after they had such hot summer league performances, but they pretty much stayed where they left off 2014.

The incoming 2015 class (for the 2015-16 season) is currently 14 strong and is highly rated once again by the online services. It was 15 strong but C Tyler Romanik out of Blythewood has switched his commitment from us to CofC, reportedly due to USC having no scholarship money for him and he'd have to walk on, but he'll get a partial ride with the Cougars. SP Nick Neidert is expected to go to the MLB on draft day: others who were mentioned as possibles were SPs Cody Morris & Logan Allen, and SS LT Tolbert. Morris however has reportedly torn his UCL and will need Tommy John surgery, so his situation is up in the air a bit. Tolbert reportedly hurt his draft stock by transferring his senior year to IMG Academy from Piedmont (Wren High), which is good for USC keeping him.

Bottom line: the team's roster was 63% freshmen & sophomore this season, and is bringing in as many as 14 for the 2015 class and losing 5 seniors. One could look at those numbers and declare that the program is in a re-loading phase right now. I can only hope that that bodes well for the immediate future of the program to bounce back...
 
First off it's been greatly exaggerated that our fans expect Omaha every year. Second this isn't a dip, it is a plunge. There were multiple problems throughout all areas on this team. Youth is not an excuse. If you're good enough to come here, you should be good enough to contribute and not regress as happened a lot this year. Counting on this year's recruiting class to shore everything up is a shot in the dark. They may pan out, they may not.
 
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First off it's been greatly exaggerated that our fans expect Omaha every year. Second this isn't a dip, it is a plunge. There were multiple problems throughout all areas on this team. Youth is not an excuse. If you're good enough to come here, you should be good enough to contribute and not regress as happened a lot this year. Counting on this year's recruiting class to shore everything up is a shot in the dark. They may pan out, they may not.

In one sentence you say "Youth is not an excuse. If you're good enough to come here, you should be good enough to contribute..." Then your next sentence is: "Counting on this year's recruiting class to shore everything up is a shot in the dark." If youth is not an excuse and they should be good enough, HOW CAN NEXT YEAR'S RECRUITING CLASS BE A SHOT IN THE DARK?? Youth is definitely a factor in any sport, but we will have to have some of the freshmen and/or some transfers to step up.
 
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The reality is the jury is still out on the Holbrook hire. I understand a) we're not going to Omaha every year and b) he's coming back next year and so is another great recruiting class (like the previous seasons) but he may not be the right guy for the job as MANAGER and is a better fit as chief recruiter and assistant. If that sounds negative then so be it but that's being entirely realistic.
 
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To go from Back to Back National Championships and National Runner up to getting worse to a point we don't even make the tournament in 3 years is PA... THE... TIC... And anyone who doesn't agree with that is not being realistic. The rosters on those championships teams may not have been loaded with Uber-talent, but those players were a heck of a lot better than this bunch. I can't really remember a USC baseball tiem with this many bad and flat out mediocre players. Lasts years team would probably second in that department.
 
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The real problem was not that we didn't make it to Omaha.....The real problem is we were beaten soundly in SEC play and lost midweek games that we should have won. I don't think the fan base just saw a slip here or there through out the season...the season was a disaster. There were not bad bounce here, clutch hits there, or a bad pitch here or poor fielding there. I could deal with that as most of us could. This season was a total train wreck that should have never been. If people want to make light of that, then so be it. I know what I saw....
 
While it's become the thing here by some to instantly blame the coaches for when things aren't going well....let's put a perspective on what is being said. We won back to back national championships. The first one was won on the spiritual back on an incredible little boy named Baylor Teal who gave a talented team a perspective on the game related to life that allowed them to come through in clutch moments and also because a bullpen pitcher who was a middle reliever evolved into being the best pitcher in CWS history. To win the second national championship it took miraculous play after play and some fortunate "bounces' in the games against UVA and Florida. Again...it was meant to be.

So now as the result of that, anything short of Omaha seems to be the standard expectation here.
The truth is nobody goes to Omaha every year. Nobody.

Coach Holbrook inherited a team with some talent his first year...but please look at everything objectively.
Yes...the trend is not headed in the right direction...but the truth is we don't have the same caliber players we had during our championship runs. The teams that have beaten us the last two years in the Super Regionals and the Regionals were quite frankly better than we were at that time of year. This year's team has a bunch of very hard working players...some great players...great young men who are giving their all but as a team don't rise to the level of past teams.

Please try to think fairly about the players on the national championship teams on which expectations now seem to be built year in and year out no matter who the players are now. Those teams had the perfect blend of team chemistry and talent.

Many of the players were not stars...some were. Christian Walker was one of the best players in the country coming out of high school and so was Jackie Bradley Jr and both became great college players and look like they have a chance to make a go of it in the majors. Adrian Morales was one of the toughest players who held other players accountable and was an inspirational fireball while Michael Roth was the fun and free spirit. That was a good combo on and off the field. Good balance. Whit Merrifield was an incredible talent and one of the most clutch hitters we have ever had. Scott Wingo was a good defensive player and an average hitter until his senior year when he when captured lightning in a bottle in every way...but from day one he would "battle" you and absolutely refuse to lose. Brady Thomas was clutch. Robert Beary was a player who could fill in anywhere, the MVP of the 2011 Columbia Regional and he and Wingo made game saving play after game saving play in the CWS finals against Florida. Blake Cooper, Sam Dyson, and yes...the incomparable Michael Roth and Matt Price. Had some great middle relievers on those teams too like John Taylor who could throw everyday and still be effective. Tremendous blend of talent and chemistry and Coach Holbrook was part of helping to blend all that talent along with Coach Tanner, Coach Calvi when he was here, and Coach Meyer.

These guys didn't all of a sudden forget how to coach. Just look honestly at now who is on this team and it is not the same kind of talent and chemistry. Good kids...good players...but it's just not the same level of talent guys. Any comparison and quite frankly expectations IMO...are not fair. Everybody goes through a "dip"...and It's okay to hope and expect to win. But some of you are posting like you have control of anything related to the program about "the only way I see this coach this and this coach that"...and that's just not living in reality.

Just remember, one of best coaches ever, Ray Tanner, is watching. Both he and Coach Holbrook are good men and good coaches. We trusted them enough to lead us to two national championships. Let me repeat that...TWO NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS!! Think for a school that had not ever won a major national championship prior to that...think we owe a debt of gratitude to coaches who helped us achieve that and as a result think the least we can do is show some patience and continue to support them and trust them to figure out how to right the ship. Thank you.
Could not have said it better, and cannot underestimate the Baylor Teal factor. Winning the first CWS championship was miraculous, the second
even more so. Now we've returned to life among the mortals, and some are having trouble adjusting.
 
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So what some of you are saying is , we won 2 national titles because we got lucky and we had the inspiration of a child with a terminal illness? If so then you are idiots and prob never played a sport much less baseball in your life. That is just insulting to the coaches and players that put in the time and work to be champions. You should apologize to them
 
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And after the best three year run in decades by any baseball team. And the recruiting weight that carried. To not even make the tourney this year is unheard of. We ALWAYS made the tournament. Before the titles.
 
In one sentence you say "Youth is not an excuse. If you're good enough to come here, you should be good enough to contribute..." Then your next sentence is: "Counting on this year's recruiting class to shore everything up is a shot in the dark." If youth is not an excuse and they should be good enough, HOW CAN NEXT YEAR'S RECRUITING CLASS BE A SHOT IN THE DARK?? Youth is definitely a factor in any sport, but we will have to have some of the freshmen and/or some transfers to step up.
I think his point is: A. If we signed them, (i.e. our current Fr. and So. classes) they should be able to help NOW, not in 2 years, and B. We didn't get into this mess in one year. Apparently, 3 or 4 recruiting classes put us here. It might be unreasonable to expect 1 class to turn everything around.
 
So what some of you are saying is , we won 2 national titles because we got lucky and we had the inspiration of a child with a terminal illness? If so then you are idiots and prob never played a sport much less baseball in your life. That is just insulting to the coaches and players that put in the time and work to be champions. You should apologize to them

Spoken like someone who never faced any real adversity in his life. And I played high school football when every day of practise was true adversity, not the pampered prance around the field that you may have experienced.

And incidentally, Coach Tanner frequently refers to the element of "luck" that you mock as critical to any team winning a CWS championship. I guess he should apologize to you as well.
 
Spoken like someone who never faced any real adversity in his life. And I played high school football when every day of practise was true adversity, not the pampered prance around the field that you may have experienced.

And incidentally, Coach Tanner frequently refers to the element of "luck" that you mock as critical to any team winning a CWS championship. I guess he should apologize to you as well.
Yes, it's got nothing to do with our bad batting average and our bad era, and all the errors in the field we make, and the great plays we don't make. It's all because our rabbit's foot was defective. Riiiiiiiiggggggggggghhhhhhttttttt.
 
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What a crock. The outfield throw by Jake Williams was not luck. The back to back fielding perfection by Wingo was not luck. The clutch of Matt Price was not luck. Michael Roths perfection and evasion on the mound was not luck. Getting under the skin of Mr all day long uconn dbag was not luck. Owning clempson was not luck.

These players had fortitude and nerves of steel. They were coached that way. Luck is what people without training hope for. Victory is what we use to expect because we knew our boys would find a way to gut it out and win.

Luck happened and when it did we won big.

You dishonor these players by calling them lucky.
 
The Virginia pitcher getting the squirts was pretty lucky... I think he struck out just about every batter he faced before having to retreat to the can...
 
The Virginia pitcher getting the squirts was pretty lucky... I think he struck out just about every batter he faced before having to retreat to the can...

But luck played no part in sending your team home twice during the CWS when all you had to do was win one game out of four and you would have made it to the finals. Those failures will haunt Jack Leggett and Clemson supporters the rest of your athletic history.
 
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The Virginia pitcher getting the squirts was pretty lucky... I think he struck out just about every batter he faced before having to retreat to the can...
Not luck. Act of God. When everyone in their dugout was watching Hultzen strike our guys out, God told Bayler Teal to dump half a bottle of X-lax in his Gatorade.
 
Luck plays a part in every season whether you win a title or don't make ncaa tourney. The point is they won those titles because they were prepared to turn it into good luck when it came around. That's coaching !
 
So what some of you are saying is , we won 2 national titles because we got lucky and we had the inspiration of a child with a terminal illness? If so then you are idiots and prob never played a sport much less baseball in your life. That is just insulting to the coaches and players that put in the time and work to be champions. You should apologize to them

Idiots
 
So, if we can connect with some unfortunate kid, we've got a shot to make it back to Omaha?

So let's see here, on one hand we've got the players on the 2010 team, including Michael Roth, Scott Wingo, Bobby Haney JBJ, Whit Merrifield and others who publicly referred to the inspiration that their time with Baylor Teal and family in Omaha provided the team that week, on the other hand we've got a bunch of keyboard couch potatos discounting the players for this relationship and the inspiration it provided. No reason for you 2 to be ignorant of these details, it's all described in the book Gamecock Glory, still available in many Columbia area bookstores and the county library, you know that big building with all the strange looking things on the selves. If you're wondering why you're not familiar with the story, it's probably because they don't refer to it very often on the South Park reruns you watch 20 hours a week. Probably better that you don't challenge others "respect" for coaches and players until you care enough about the program to have some credibility on this board.
 
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What a crock. The outfield throw by Jake Williams was not luck. The back to back fielding perfection by Wingo was not luck. The clutch of Matt Price was not luck. Michael Roths perfection and evasion on the mound was not luck. Getting under the skin of Mr all day long uconn dbag was not luck. Owning clempson was not luck.

These players had fortitude and nerves of steel. They were coached that way. Luck is what people without training hope for. Victory is what we use to expect because we knew our boys would find a way to gut it out and win.

Luck happened and when it did we won big.

You dishonor these players by calling them lucky.

So far, you're the only one I've seen use the words "players" and "lucky" in the same sentence (immediately above), so if an apology is in order, it should come from you. What I did say is that Coach Tanner referred to the element of luck that any team experience in route to a NC. And yes we did play at a very high level during both championship runs, but we did benefit from a few fortunate bounces along the way. As you yourself stated above good teams take advantage of breaks, which we did. No one on this thread has implied that we won either championship solely due to "luck" , so no need to create conflict where none exists.
 
The realistic prospective is we have maybe 3 players that would make it on LSUs team. All Tanner's players are gone. Tanner is the reason all the great players came here that won 2 national championships and played for a third. Tanner also wasn't afraid to bring in JUCOs to fill needs.
 
What one can always depend on from a "realistic post" is a load of unrealistic claptrap.

And this one starts with the strawman of "now as the result of that, anything short of Omaha seems", while we are getting 10 run ruled for about the 13th time this year in SEC play. and goes downhill from there.

Someone has not been paying attention because the real rational fans have been warning about the problems developing in the team for two years and are not surprised by this year collapse because they saw it coming.

And only the sunshine pumpers would think it a great idea to hand a hammer and saw to the arsonist which just burnt the house to the ground.

Here is the unfortunate thing.....it is not a question of should Holbrook be fired but when....whether it is next year or year after next...it will happen. It just must not become a Darrin Horn fiasco which destroys the program for a decade.
 
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Most winning teams need a bit of luck to win it all. That doesn't mean luck is the only factor, it also takes good players and coaches. Auburn beating Georgia and Alabama in 2013, to make it to the national championship, is evidence of that.
 
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This is ridiculous. I don't think anyone would be up in arms if Holbrook was struggling to get to Omaha (some would be because those fans would complain about anything) and just couldn't get over the SR hump. What fans with any sense have an issue with is we will miss postseason for the first time since 1997-Tanners first year. While the Holbrook supporters always use the "look at what we lost" card to defend him, they must also view what returned. While what returned did not warrant a trip to Omaha, this team should have made Regionals. Two thirds of the weekend rotation was coming back (this team was in the toilet before Crowe's injury), plus 6 experienced regulars. This team had to fill one outfield spot (Bright, Caldwell, Harrington) was going to shake out with at least one guy taking charge of a corner, catcher, and DH. The only other issue was figuring out the bullpen. Based on what returned to this team I find it difficult for anyone to defend the performance of Holbrook. Doesn't mean he should be fired this year, just stating that he did a poor job.
 
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^
Yep, last year the excuse was injuries, this year the excuse is youth apparently, so what will next year's excuse be? If anything it looks like we're getting farther away from Omaha each passing year. God forbid we would want to blame the coach for that.
 
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You don't go through a whole season/post season and win the National Title because of luck. I agree, that assessment is an insult to the players. They were a special group and they made things happen period.
 
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You don't go through a whole season/post season and win the National Title because of luck. I agree, that assessment is an insult to the players. They were a special group and they made things happen period.

You and a couple of your Nellie BFFs on this thread are the only ones suggesting that luck alone produced the 2 championships, the rest only suggested that we did have some good fortune that, along with determined and talented players who played inspired baseball that led to a winning formula. How you turn that into an insult to the players reflects someone who is trying to create a distraction to the intent of the OP's message. Quit trying to reshape the dialogue to support your defeatist attitude.
 
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Call me crazy but I think we gonna win it all. I can see it now, a ticker tape parade for Coach Chad in just a few weeks. You hater's will find out the hard way.
 
You and a couple of your Nellie BFFs on this thread are the only ones suggesting that luck alone produced the 2 championships, the rest only suggested that we did have some good fortune that, along with determined and talented players who played inspired baseball that led to a winning formula. How you turn that into an insult to the players reflects someone who is trying to create a distraction to the intent of the OP's message. Quit trying to reshape the dialogue to support your defeatist attitude.
Ok so the dialogue in the first thread was "fortunate bounces" . How is that different from "luck"? You're grasping straws bud. The players on those Nat title teams worked hard for those championships. Don't belittle what they accomplished . It took a lot more than inspiration and some fortunate bounces to win back to back national titles
 
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