Trust Ray, he knows what he is doing

[CCUIrmo]

This year alone Carolina fans have wanted Spurrier fired because of how the team was going. if not fired we wanted him to retire. Then we wanted Martin fired because in year three we didnt see what we wanted from the team. Then we want Holbrook fired because of a bad season. Let us not forget that we want Berson fired from soccer as well.
Let's be honest here, this year was not what we hoped or expected from a major sports year but all of this fire everyone stuff is a little old now. How about some support? Negativity breeds negativity and recruits DO read these boards so when we bash everyone and want everyone fired, we look like a majorly disfunctional fan base.
Ray is a former coach and successful one at that. He knows what he is looking at and knows if a coach is losing the program or if they are having a rough year. He didnt want his career judged on one bad season and so he wont do that to any of these coaches. If next year things are still like they are now in May, then Ray will very likely be looking at changes but right now he is seeing things as being able to be corrected and be successful and we should also. I will admit I still wonder why Deke Adams is still here but he is and I will support him and hope he makes the d-line the best it has ever been this year. Support who is here. This is when they need it the most.
OK I am getting off my soapbox now. Have a nice day.

 

[jonesz21]

This is Tanner first AD job correct? He will make some mistakes I'm sure. He will make some great decisions also. There has to be a learning curve from supervising the production line to running the company. It is ok to say Tanner did something great! It is also OK to say maybe he should have interviewed another baseball coach or two with actual head coaching experience when he gave his buddy the job

 

[superflyby]

This is Tanner first AD job correct? He will make some mistakes I'm sure. He will make some great decisions also. There has to be a learning curve from supervising the production line to running the company. It is ok to say Tanner did something great! It is also OK to say maybe he should have interviewed another baseball coach or two with actual head coaching experience when he gave his buddy the job

In Tanner's defense....there was not one person that I know nor any media member that didn't think this was a no-brainer....It had perfect match written all over it. It may still work but it hasn't so far. I know I thought it was a wonderful choice....

 

[USCBatgirl21]

This is Tanner first AD job correct? He will make some mistakes I'm sure. He will make some great decisions also. There has to be a learning curve from supervising the production line to running the company. It is ok to say Tanner did something great! It is also OK to say maybe he should have interviewed another baseball coach or two with actual head coaching experience when he gave his buddy the job

When Holbrook was brought in, it was well known that he would replace Ray when the time came.

 

[jonesz21]

When Holbrook was brought in, it was well known that he would replace Ray when the time came.

We thought the same thing with skip Holtz.

 

[conCOCKshon]

In Tanner's defense....there was not one person that I know nor any media member that didn't think this was a no-brainer....It had perfect match written all over it. It may still work but it hasn't so far. I know I thought it was a wonderful choice....

I didn't think it was a good choice. Smacks of King Dixon. Popular guy whose dedication to USC is unquestioned. But, he was a lousy AD. The AD position in today's world in a power 5 conference requires nothing short of a business degree from MIT. It's not just hiring coaches anymore.

Ask yourself this. Even if you hated Hyman, could Tanner have righted our ship, developed a master plan (that incredibly had never been done before) and executed it under the dire financial condition we were in at the time? My answer is No. Great man, to be sure, but he's in over his head. His automatic fall back position is to discuss construction projects (envisioned under Hyman's plan) to deflect away from our issues.

 

[superflyby]

I didn't think it was a good choice. Smacks of King Dixon. Popular guy whose dedication to USC is unquestioned. But, he was a lousy AD. The AD position in today's world in a power 5 conference requires nothing short of a business degree from MIT. It's not just hiring coaches anymore.

Ask yourself this. Even if you hated Hyman, could Tanner have righted our ship, developed a master plan (that incredibly had never been done before) and executed it under the dire financial condition we were in at the time? My answer is No. Great man, to be sure, but he's in over his head. His automatic fall back position is to discuss construction projects (envisioned under Hyman's plan) to deflect away from our issues.

You're an exception to the "not a good choice" statement. I didn't hate Hyman and I really don't know what Ray could or would have done in that situation. He had a few years working with Hyman so I trust he learned a few things along the way. I was less sure about Tanner than I was Holbrook but he may or may not work out to be "the guy". I think the jury is still out on Tanner and he could not afford to listen to a bunch of knee jerk reactions from the fans. There are many issues that factor and wins is just one of them. It may yet be the deciding factor next year but he had no choice but to let Holbrook try to work through it. There are contract, players, recruiting, and a host of other issues you have to weigh out. You can't have a simplistic answers for complicated situations.

 

[jonesz21]

You're an exception to the "not a good choice" statement. I didn't hate Hyman and I really don't know what Ray could or would have done in that situation. He had a few years working with Hyman so I trust he learned a few things along the way. I was less sure about Tanner than I was Holbrook but he may or may not work out to be "the guy". I think the jury is still out on Tanner and he could not afford to listen to a bunch of knee jerk reactions from the fans. There are many issues that factor and wins is just one of them. It may yet be the deciding factor next year but he had no choice but to let Holbrook try to work through it. There are contract, players, recruiting, and a host of other issues you have to weigh out. You can't have a simplistic answers for complicated situations.

So true. That is prolly why no other school in the SEC will give their baseball coach the AD position. Just sayin....

 

[jeff2001]

In Tanner's defense....there was not one person that I know nor any media member that didn't think this was a no-brainer....It had perfect match written all over it. It may still work but it hasn't so far. I know I thought it was a wonderful choice....

Great point.

 

[sclawman77]

I trust Ray as a baseball manager-but not yet as an AD.

 

[saltlifeGamecock]

First, it's absurd to fire a coach of Holbrooks calibre after one bad year. Second it's even more absurd to question Tanners tenacity or decisions at a sport he excelled at, and as has been stated by his coaches, Staley, Spurrier, and Martin that they are with him. If you keyboard jockeys want to screw up a sports program that has made more strides in the past 10 years than the 100 before, by all means try to carry out your stupid mission. Fact is, we are stronger thanks to these people than ever in the past as we stand now. Football, basketball, baseball, etc. Will some minor coaching changes may be made, probably. But a wholesale change to any of these programs is,well just plain ignorant. And by the way,doesnt reflect well on the intelligence of the Gamecock Nation fanbase!!!!!! JMHO

 

[USCBatgirl21]

We thought the same thing with skip Holtz.

Skip was merely speculation. Chad was fact.

 

[Number1pjones]

We were not used to having success in ANY sports. Then we had success in baseball and football. How do we usually adjust to dips in the performance of our sports teams after some sustained (although unprecedented) success? I don't know. This is the 1st time it's ever happened.

 

[jonesz21]

Skip was merely speculation. Chad was fact.

so is Jr. speculation or fact?

 

[jonesz21]

First, it's absurd to fire a coach of Holbrooks calibre after one bad year. Second it's even more absurd to question Tanners tenacity or decisions at a sport he excelled at, and as has been stated by his coaches, Staley, Spurrier, and Martin that they are with him. If you keyboard jockeys want to screw up a sports program that has made more strides in the past 10 years than the 100 before, by all means try to carry out your stupid mission. Fact is, we are stronger thanks to these people than ever in the past as we stand now. Football, basketball, baseball, etc. Will some minor coaching changes may be made, probably. But a wholesale change to any of these programs is,well just plain ignorant. And by the way,doesnt reflect well on the intelligence of the Gamecock Nation fanbase!!!!!! JMHO

Nobody is asking for wholesale change. I just hope the next time we fill a vacancy like Head coach we actually at least interview a couple of head coaches. Same with AD position. We should be going after the best of the best. We shouldn't have to hire the WR coach to be our head coach like tater tech.

If you cant see we are in trouble with our baseball program and that we have bunches of questions with our football program then all a can say is LOL.. If it doesn't matter if we win or lose then why do we keep score???

 

[searooster]

We thought the same thing with skip Holtz.

Very few Carolina fans seriously expected Skip Holtz to become Head coach here. Some random gossip to that effect on sport forums , but nothing ever of substance to support it.

 

[searooster]

so is Jr. speculation or fact?

Jr. is entirely speculation by more gossip mongers.

 

[saltlifeGamecock]

Jonesz , obviously your reading and comprehension needs some work. The baseball team is not in dire straights. Again, I'm pretty sure Spurrier, Dawn or Frank would have said something if they thought your way about Ray. And Holbrook is pro enough to know if he was really the problem or if he feels he can fix things. Give the guys a chance and cool it with the chicken little stuff. Please.

 

[sclawman77]

Jonesz , obviously your reading and comprehension needs some work. The baseball team is not in dire straights. Again, I'm pretty sure Spurrier, Dawn or Frank would have said something if they thought your way about Ray. And Holbrook is pro enough to know if he was really the problem or if he feels he can fix things. Give the guys a chance and cool it with the chicken little stuff. Please.

No offense, but maybe your reading and comprehension need some work too. It's "dire straits". And please stop acting like you're the authority on this subject. Why would any of our coaches have a problem with Ray? They continue to get his support, raises and extensions. We don't have to give Chad a chance-he's getting plenty of time to prove himself (or not).

 

[ReadR00ster]

People still trying to hang on to that "on bad year" bs? He's turn the team to garbage. He's guaranteed at least two more bad years by destroying the team.

 

[gamcox]

First, it's absurd to fire a coach of Holbrooks calibre after one bad year. Second it's even more absurd to question Tanners tenacity or decisions at a sport he excelled at, and as has been stated by his coaches, Staley, Spurrier, and Martin that they are with him. If you keyboard jockeys want to screw up a sports program that has made more strides in the past 10 years than the 100 before, by all means try to carry out your stupid mission. Fact is, we are stronger thanks to these people than ever in the past as we stand now. Football, basketball, baseball, etc. Will some minor coaching changes may be made, probably. But a wholesale change to any of these programs is,well just plain ignorant. And by the way,doesnt reflect well on the intelligence of the Gamecock Nation fanbase!!!!!! JMHO

Again, it's not one bad year. It is a downward spiral from year one to year three. The program is worse now than when he started. Has there been any improvement in the program since he has been head coach?

 

[jonesz21]

Yeah this isn't like when Lou took over the football program with little talent. We have had great recruiting classes in baseball I guess we need better faculties lmao.

 

[searooster]

So true. That is prolly why no other school in the SEC will give their baseball coach the AD position. Just sayin....

LSU did, promoting Head Baseball Coach Skip Bertman to AD a few years back. Not saying that was a great decision, but there is a precedent.

 

[Clevercock3]

I learned a very long time ago to always keep an eye out for someone that proposes a change but provides no solutions.....

Now I guess the FIRE someone crowd is moving their target toward Tanner since they couldn't get Spurrier, Martin or Holbrook....

Yawn!

 

[saltlifeGamecock]

I am no expert by any stretch of the imagination, but I am a realist. Holbrook gets 1 more year like it or not, and Tanner isn't going anywhere. I do think Holbrook will be on the hot seat next year though.

 

[sclawman77]

I learned a very long time ago to always keep an eye out for someone that proposes a change but provides no solutions.....

Now I guess the FIRE someone crowd is moving their target toward Tanner since they couldn't get Spurrier, Martin or Holbrook....

Yawn!

I for one am not saying fire Holbrook immediately but the current trend can't continue either. It's not like there aren't other solid options available for baseball manager. As far as Ray's job, don't assume every decision he makes is perfect. I hope he is the man for the job but the decision to hire Chad was his and his alone. For what it's worth, I'm a Spurrier and Martin fan too.

 

[umdterpcock]

The AD is a huge job these days and yes it is much bigger than hiring and firing coaches, although making those moves correctly makes their job MUCH easier.

Where Im concerned for Tanner is with Spurrier. Spurrier has put the football program in a very sticky situation with his stupid 2-3 year comment after last year. That comment has turned out to be extremely toxic to the immediate future of the program. Tanner has to fix it somehow. I know Spurrier is vehemently against a coach in waiting title, other than it being someone with the same last name, but there should have been a big splash hire that could have been perceived as "the coach in waiting" even if they weren't given the title. The program will suffer given those comments and Tanner is going to have to find a way to change the "perception" of Carolina football and do it soon. That to me is Tanners biggest task at hand right now. I think Holbrook is capable of righting the ship if he can get some better coaches capable of developing players and find a diamond in the rough along the way, which is what Tanner was good at.

 

[jonesz21]

LSU did, promoting Head Baseball Coach Skip Bertman to AD a few years back. Not saying that was a great decision, but there is a precedent.

LSU has been in the news the last couple of weeks about maybe having to file bankruptcy. lol

I hope Tanner is the man for the job time will tell. Chad on the other hand has us on a downward spiral with top talent. Ray Charles could see that.

 

[HI Cock]

Yuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuup!

 

[cocknjax]

I learned a very long time ago to always keep an eye out for someone that proposes a change but provides no solutions.....

Now I guess the FIRE someone crowd is moving their target toward Tanner since they couldn't get Spurrier, Martin or Holbrook....

Yawn!

This year alone Carolina fans have wanted Spurrier fired because of how the team was going. if not fired we wanted him to retire. Then we wanted Martin fired because in year three we didnt see what we wanted from the team. Then we want Holbrook fired because of a bad season. Let us not forget that we want Berson fired from soccer as well.
Let's be honest here, this year was not what we hoped or expected from a major sports year but all of this fire everyone stuff is a little old now. How about some support? Negativity breeds negativity and recruits DO read these boards so when we bash everyone and want everyone fired, we look like a majorly disfunctional fan base.
Ray is a former coach and successful one at that. He knows what he is looking at and knows if a coach is losing the program or if they are having a rough year. He didnt want his career judged on one bad season and so he wont do that to any of these coaches. If next year things are still like they are now in May, then Ray will very likely be looking at changes but right now he is seeing things as being able to be corrected and be successful and we should also. I will admit I still wonder why Deke Adams is still here but he is and I will support him and hope he makes the d-line the best it has ever been this year. Support who is here. This is when they need it the most.
OK I am getting off my soapbox now. Have a nice day.

This year alone Carolina fans have wanted Spurrier fired because of how the team was going. if not fired we wanted him to retire. Then we wanted Martin fired because in year three we didnt see what we wanted from the team. Then we want Holbrook fired because of a bad season. Let us not forget that we want Berson fired from soccer as well.
Let's be honest here, this year was not what we hoped or expected from a major sports year but all of this fire everyone stuff is a little old now. How about some support? Negativity breeds negativity and recruits DO read these boards so when we bash everyone and want everyone fired, we look like a majorly disfunctional fan base.
Ray is a former coach and successful one at that. He knows what he is looking at and knows if a coach is losing the program or if they are having a rough year. He didnt want his career judged on one bad season and so he wont do that to any of these coaches. If next year things are still like they are now in May, then Ray will very likely be looking at changes but right now he is seeing things as being able to be corrected and be successful and we should also. I will admit I still wonder why Deke Adams is still here but he is and I will support him and hope he makes the d-line the best it has ever been this year. Support who is here. This is when they need it the most.
OK I am getting off my soapbox now. Have a nice day.[/QUOTE

Perhaps so. But I wish he would let us in on it.
OTOH, Dawn clearly knows what she is doing.

 

[CaliCock]

Very few Carolina fans seriously expected Skip Holtz to become Head coach here. Some random gossip to that effect on sport forums , but nothing ever of substance to support it.

lol, you have no idea what you're talking about. I don't know what "very few Carolina fans expected" but I do know for a fact that the Holtz family absolutely expected Skip to be named coach when Lou stepped down, and the only reason he wasn't was because of his own colossal indiscretion

 

[searooster]

lol, you have no idea what you're talking about. I don't know what "very few Carolina fans expected" but I do know for a fact that the Holtz family absolutely expected Skip to be named coach when Lou stepped down, and the only reason he wasn't was because of his own colossal indiscretion

We thought the same thing with skip Holtz (per Calicock)

The referenced post (direct quote in bold above) was that the fans (We) were expecting Skip Holtz to become Head Coach, and you try to defend it with the expectation of, not the fans, but instead the Holtz family, who I'm sure you have exclusive insight regarding their personal expectations.

 

[CaliCock]

We thought the same thing with skip Holtz (per Calicock)

The referenced post (direct quote in bold above) was that the fans (We) were expecting Skip Holtz to become Head Coach, and you try to defend it with the expectation of, not the fans, but instead the Holtz family, who I'm sure you have exclusive insight regarding their personal expectations.

lol, that beeping sound you're hearing is the sound of "searooster" furiously backing away from his assertion that regarding rumors of Skip's possible promotion to head coach:

[QUOTE="searooster, post: 448767, member: 14280"...]random gossip to that effect on sport forums , but nothing ever of substance to support it.[/QUOTE]

(btw friend, see how it works a whole lot better when you use the actual quote and not try to put words in someone's mouth that they did NOT say?)

 

[searooster]

lol, that beeping sound you're hearing is the sound of "searooster" furiously backing away from his assertion that regarding rumors of Skip's possible promotion to head coach:

[QUOTE="searooster, post: 448767, member: 14280"...]random gossip to that effect on sport forums , but nothing ever of substance to support it.

(btw friend, see how it works a whole lot better when you use the actual quote and not try to put words in someone's mouth that they did NOT say?)[/QUOTE]

And the incoherent blabbering nonsense above is Calicock trying to salvage a losing argument while downing his 9th malt liquor of afternoon. Dude , I seriously hope your at home and not planning on driving in this condition. Still waiting for you to provide any evidence of me "backing away" from any position on this thread. Might be easier for you after a good night's sleep, though.

 

[USCBatgirl21]

lol, you have no idea what you're talking about. I don't know what "very few Carolina fans expected" but I do know for a fact that the Holtz family absolutely expected Skip to be named coach when Lou stepped down, and the only reason he wasn't was because of his own colossal indiscretion

With all due respect, just because the Holtz family expected him to be promoted, it does mean that the fans expected, or wanted it. So Searooster is not wrong in what he stated, nor am I.

 

[CaliCock]

With all due respect, just because the Holtz family expected him to be promoted, it does mean that the fans expected, or wanted it. So Searooster is not wrong in what he stated, nor am I.

BG, with all due respect to you, the question wasn't what the fans wanted or expected, it was whether there was nothing to support the idea or something to support it. sea-doofus who is talking straight out of his ass said there wasn't, I'm telling you there WAS something to support it, because they (the Holtzs) believed it would happen, and it would have, had Skippy not been the architect of 63-17, and of course all the off-field stupidity.

 

[USCBatgirl21]

I'm the one that first brought up that Skip was merely speculation. And to this day, I will stand by the premise that, regardless of what Lou may have wanted, Skip taking over as HC was simply speculation, even before 63-17 and the off field shenanigans.

Also, there is a big difference between expecting someone to take over (Skip) and a person being brought in specifically to take over (Chad).

 

[CaliCock]

I'm the one that first brought up that Skip was merely speculation. And to this day, I will stand by the premise that, regardless of what Lou may have wanted, Skip taking over as HC was simply speculation, even before 63-17 and the off field shenanigans.

Also, there is a big difference between expecting someone to take over (Skip) and a person being brought in specifically to take over (Chad).

It wasn't speculation, there were specific conditions Skip had to meet, difficult conditions, but they were clearly spelled out. They knew what he had to do, he just couldn't.

 

[searooster]

It wasn't speculation, there were specific conditions Skip had to meet, difficult conditions, but they were clearly spelled out. They knew what he had to do, he just couldn't.

Translation for those not fluent in childish denial: Calicock has no evidence to support his position, but will cling to it till all the adults leave the room.

 

[Combahee Cock]

Great discussion, all around. I'm inclined to agree w/ Batgirl's assessment.