2 questions....Clemson football operations building vs ours

[umdterpcock]

Just last year on this same board there was a post explaining that Watson was no better than Perry Orth. Now he is an irreplaceable first round talent that will never come around to Clemson again. I agree he is a special talent, but good teams can win without a superstar at QB. Just take a look at what Alabama did last season.

I do think the QB position at Clemson will take a drop off, but the defense is going to be better than it has been in the last 2 years. Clemson may not win as many shootouts, but they probably still have at least 10 wins this year. If they win the ACC they are probably right back in the playoff, even if they lose a game early.

I agree that Mike Williams bailed Watson out with some big catches, but to act like there are no more WR's on the roster is also not accurate. Clemson will line up with Deon Cain (5-star), Ray Ray McCloud (5-star), Tee Higgens (5-star), Cornell Powell (4-star), Amari Rogers (4-star), Diondre Overton (4-star), and some scrub named Renfrow all on the roster this season.

First of all I'm not "acting" like anything, and you just said about the same thing I did.

My point is you can bring in all the talent in the world, like a Watson, but they still have to develop and play and not every big recruit they bring in will develop.

I agree they'll win 9-10 games, but to win big you still need a special QB and I think Alabama proved that. In essence Watson beat them twice, when he had the ball. If it weren't for a couple of blown coverages on defense and special teams let downs Clemson would have back to back championships. Watson did all he could do in both games.

 

[brunswickfan05]

First of all I'm not "acting" like anything, and you just said about the same thing I did.

My point is you can bring in all the talent in the world, like a Watson, but they still have to develop and play and not every big recruit they bring in will develop.

I agree they'll win 9-10 games, but to win big you still need a special QB and I think Alabama proved that. In essence Watson beat them twice, when he had the ball. If it weren't for a couple of blown coverages on defense and special teams let downs Clemson would have back to back championships. Watson did all he could do in both games.

I think we agree on everything except for the "special QB part." I think Alabama proved you can win without one. I don't think anyone would call Hurts a special QB at this point and Alabama was within a few seconds of winning back to back championships. I understand your argument that a special QB is the reason they didn't win, but let's look at it this way. Below are all of the QB's that have won the national championship in the last 7years. Of this list, I would say 3 of the teams won with exceptionalB's and 4 of them won with mediocre QB's and outstanding defense. Coincidently, 3 of the 4 teams to win it all without an exceptional QB were Alabama teams.

2016 - Deshaun Watson
2015 - Jake Coker
2014 - Cardale Jones
2013 - Jameis Winston
2012 - AJ McCarron
2011 - AJ McCarron
2010 - Cam Newton

 

[pluffmud]

Not at all....the correct logic is Clemson barely escaped with victories over Auburn, Louisville, and VT with a 1st round talent @ QB last season. Auburn has greatly improved @ the QB position, Louisville still has the Heisman winner returning for another season and Clemson plays them back to back. Virginia Tech is a stretch but I think the game is in Blacksburg @ night and will be tough on a rookie starter. Just calling it the way I see it with the drop off @ the QB position Clemson has going into the 2017 season.

I agree. Dropoff at QB will be a YUGE issue for them this year. That said, their defense could keep them in every game. I look for losses @Louisville and against FSU. Hard to see that defense not holding everybody else low enough for their offense to score enough points. IF (big if) their running game improves, i.e., Feaster lives up to his billing, and the freshman from LA is effective, they could be better than expected. Regardless, I see them winning at least 9 games, thanks to their D.

 

[Superior7]

He doesn't have to be at Deshaun Watson's level. Frankly, you are coming unhinged here. Clemson isn't a bad as you think. South Carolina isn't as good as you think. You are just trying to convince yourself that Clemson won't be any good, and that Carolina will be great. Clemson isn't going to fall apart overnight. South Carolina isn't going to become a world-beater overnight. Most rational people understand this.

So what are your expectations for your season next year and who said South Carolina would be a world beater? I simply predict our offense will be better than yours

FYi Streeter came from Richmond, not Liberty. He was pretty successful there. I don't think he's some kind of genius coach at all but he's a tough guy. When at Clemson he got the crap beat out of him on a regular basis and got back up almost every time. I respected him for that.

Streeter is a tough guy, YES.
Good QB coach? It's wait and see. A monkey would get credit if he coached Watson.

Matter of fact, there's going to be a lot of wait and see from Clemson this year. Having a special player like Watson takes the pressure off of everyone, including the coaches.

What Watson did as an improviser was nothing short of awesome, and you can't teach that. The loss of Mike Williams will hurt their receiving group, as he bailed Watson out on many many many bad throws. The next QB won't have that benefit.

Clemson will be good, they have the players to be real good, but you can't win big without a special guy playing QB and the guys they have trying to get the job have skills but they aren't Watson, at least not yet.

Streeter actually spent 6 years @ Liberty and followed Rocco to Richmond.

Providing links with facts just isn't enough for the Clemson Homers that infect this message board. Maybe one of them should post their post Spring depth chart to inform all who is the current leader and announced starter of the QB position. 4 for 13 for 43 yards and an INT doesn't give Kelly Bryant's stats the real picture. His longest pass completion was a shovel pass (really a handoff to Ray Ray McCloud for 34 yards.

FYi Streeter came from Richmond, not Liberty. He was pretty successful there. I don't think he's some kind of genius coach at all but he's a tough guy. When at Clemson he got the crap beat out of him on a regular basis and got back up almost every time. I respected him for that.

Streeter is a tough guy, YES.
Good QB coach? It's wait and see. A monkey would get credit if he coached Watson.

Matter of fact, there's going to be a lot of wait and see from Clemson this year. Having a special player like Watson takes the pressure off of everyone, including the coaches.

What Watson did as an improviser was nothing short of awesome, and you can't teach that. The loss of Mike Williams will hurt their receiving group, as he bailed Watson out on many many many bad throws. The next QB won't have that benefit.

Clemson will be good, they have the players to be real good, but you can't win big without a special guy playing QB and the guys they have trying to get the job have skills but they aren't Watson, at least not yet.

Streeter spent 6 seasons @ Liberty and followed Rocco to Richmond for 3 seasons. He's been to both schools.

 

[JSpears5]

Coincidentally, 3 of the 4 teams to win it all without an exceptional QB were Alabama teams.

2016 - Deshaun Watson
2015 - Jake Coker
2014 - Cardale Jones
2013 - Jameis Winston
2012 - AJ McCarron
2011 - AJ McCarron
2010 - Cam Newton

I would argue that this is not a coincident. To win the national title, you might have an exceptional QB or the best talent on the field at every other position. Bama had the better player in probably 80% of the cases against Clemson this year, but a huge gap at QB.

Jones was not exceptional, but Jones had E Elliot running for 476 yds / 8.5 per carry in the playoffs

 

[JSpears5]

Providing links with facts just isn't enough for the Clemson Homers that infect this message board.

Just bring these discussion onto the Insider side, I may not agree with you on some of your calls, we would be able to follow the thread without all these side BS about their QB coach

 

[umdterpcock]

So what are your expectations for your season next year and who said South Carolina would be a world beater? I simply predict our offense will be better than yours


Streeter actually spent 6 years @ Liberty and followed Rocco to Richmond.

Providing links with facts just isn't enough for the Clemson Homers that infect this message board. Maybe one of them should post their post Spring depth chart to inform all who is the current leader and announced starter of the QB position. 4 for 13 for 43 yards and an INT doesn't give Kelly Bryant's stats the real picture. His longest pass completion was a shovel pass (really a handoff to Ray Ray McCloud for 34 yards.


Streeter spent 6 seasons @ Liberty and followed Rocco to Richmond for 3 seasons. He's been to both schools.

I just knew Streeter was hired from Richmond. Not sure he's the QB whisperer yet. When a coach has top talent to say he "coached" you really don't know how good he is.

When Clemson lines up 4 and 5 stars all over the field it's kind of hard for a coach to look bad.

Im not really that concerned with Clemson as much as I am with SC making the right decisions moving forward. I'd like to see Tanner do what he should do in the next month or so, but that won't happen.

 

[topdecktiger]

You said:

Offensively, I think we'll be as good as any team in the country in the next 2 or 3 seasons

If you are as good as any team in the country on offense, that would qualify as making you world beaters. I disagree that this will happen. The numbers simply don't back you up. You keep harping on the bad numbers that Bryant and Johnson put up in the spring game. Well, last year in REAL GAMES, South Carolina finished 115th in total offense. If we are going to go by numbers, like you are doing with Clemson, then the numbers simply don't support South Carolina going from 115 to "as good as any team in the country."

So what are your expectations for your season next year and who said South Carolina would be a world beater? I simply predict our offense will be better than yours

I would compare Clemson this year to 2014, when Watson was hurt half the season. Even with him being gone much of the year, Clemson still managed to win 10 games. Clemson has comparable talent across the board, so I would say a similar result is well within reason.

I would also say predicting South Carolina will be better offensively than Clemson is a stretch. Again, this offense, in REAL GAMES last year was 115th. I do think South Carolina will improve, and I think they have some good players (particularly Dowdle and Edwards). However, again, 115th.

 

[coxman]

FYi Streeter came from Richmond, not Liberty. He was pretty successful there. I don't think he's some kind of genius coach at all but he's a tough guy. When at Clemson he got the crap beat out of him on a regular basis and got back up almost every time. I respected him for that.

Streeter is a tough guy, YES.
Good QB coach? It's wait and see. A monkey would get credit if he coached Watson.

Matter of fact, there's going to be a lot of wait and see from Clemson this year. Having a special player like Watson takes the pressure off of everyone, including the coaches.

What Watson did as an improviser was nothing short of awesome, and you can't teach that. The loss of Mike Williams will hurt their receiving group, as he bailed Watson out on many many many bad throws. The next QB won't have that benefit.

Clemson will be good, they have the players to be real good, but you can't win big without a special guy playing QB and the guys they have trying to get the job have skills but they aren't Watson, at least not yet.

FYI IDC.

 

[umdterpcock]

FYI IDC.

You have to be an ass?

 

[coxman]

You have to be an ass?

Only when wrongly called out.

 

[Superior7]

You said:

If you are as good as any team in the country on offense, that would qualify as making you world beaters. I disagree that this will happen. The numbers simply don't back you up. You keep harping on the bad numbers that Bryant and Johnson put up in the spring game. Well, last year in REAL GAMES, South Carolina finished 115th in total offense. If we are going to go by numbers, like you are doing with Clemson, then the numbers simply don't support South Carolina going from 115 to "as good as any team in the country."




I would compare Clemson this year to 2014, when Watson was hurt half the season. Even with him being gone much of the year, Clemson still managed to win 10 games. Clemson has comparable talent across the board, so I would say a similar result is well within reason.

I would also say predicting South Carolina will be better offensively than Clemson is a stretch. Again, this offense, in REAL GAMES last year was 115th. I do think South Carolina will improve, and I think they have some good players (particularly Dowdle and Edwards). However, again, 115th.

We won't be 115 this year in offense Topdicktiger.

Clemson averaged 37 points / game the past 2 seasons with Watson @ QB and the offense was ranked #14 last season. Surely that average will drop like a rock and if you reach Cole Stout's level, I'll be amazed. Clemson fans were booing Cole Stout during his only season as starter.

Why do you hang out over here so much anyway? You don't have anything to worry about over here. Just turn on WCCP. Your thoughts will agree with every word and insult they speak.

 

[topdecktiger]

We won't be 115 this year in offense Topdicktiger.

Clemson averaged 37 points / game the past 2 seasons with Watson @ QB and the offense was ranked #14 last season. Surely that average will drop like a rock and if you reach Cole Stout's level, I'll be amazed. Clemson fans were booing Cole Stout during his only season as starter.

Why do you hang out over here so much anyway? You don't have anything to worry about over here. Just turn on WCCP. Your thoughts will agree with every word and insult they speak.

You won't be "as good as any team in the country" either.

No, the average won't "surely" drop like a rock. I expect the offense to decline without Watson. The issue is the extent of the decline. Clemson still has a lot of talent offensively. Enough to beat most teams on their schedule. And there is also this issue of the defense, which is extremely talented, and hasn't lost as many starters as in the previous two years. Having a talented defense can pick up the slack for a diminished offense. That's why I made the comparison to 2014.

You're right about Clemson fans booing Cole Stoudt..............and they still won 10 games that year. That's the point. Even with a quarterback as ineffective as Cole Stoudt.........Clemson still won 10 games.

As far as reaching Cole Stoudt's level, I guess you better be prepared to be amazed. Even if Bryant and Johnson are abysmal at passing, they still have much more athletic/running ability than Cole Stoudt, particularly Bryant. So yeah, reaching Cole Stoudt's level isn't all that difficult. But, continue to live in your own little world and try to convince yourself.

Regarding how much I post here, I don't post much. Go back and look up the number of threads I have posted in the last 6 months. You could probably count them on one hand. And by the way, the "why do you post here" card is what someone goes to when they can't support their argument with facts.

 

[Superior7]

You won't be "as good as any team in the country" either.

No, the average won't "surely" drop like a rock. I expect the offense to decline without Watson. The issue is the extent of the decline. Clemson still has a lot of talent offensively. Enough
to beat most teams on their schedule. And there is also this issue of the defense, which is extremely talented, and hasn't lost as many starters as in the previous two years. Having a talented defense can pick up the slack
for a diminished offense. That's why I made the comparison to 2014.

You're right about Clemson fans booing Cole Stoudt..............and they
still won 10 games that year. That's
the point. Even with a quarterback as ineffective as Cole Stoudt.........Clemson still won 10 games.

As far as reaching Cole Stoudt's level,
I guess you better be prepared to be amazed. Even if Bryant and Johnson are abysmal at passing, they still have
much more athletic/running ability than Cole Stoudt, particularly Bryant. So
yeah, reaching Cole Stoudt's level isn't
all that difficult. But, continue to live in your own little world and try to convince yourself.

Regarding how much I post here, I
don't post much. Go back and look up
the number of threads I have posted in the last 6 months. You could probably count them on one hand. And by the way, the "why do you post here" card
is what someone goes to when they
can't support their argument with facts.

My argument about your quarterbacks is accurate. I'm not lying about your Spring Game stats nor Dabo's comments about the current best QB
on your roster. Sure, Clemson has
several proven wide receivers that Watson utilized as the 3rd or 4th guys in last seasons offense. They will move into the #1 and #2 roles this season but it appears they don't have a QB to get them the ball even when they are
open downfield. Cole Stout completed 63% of his passes in 2015 sharing the starting job with Deshaun. Your leader coming out of Spring Ball just completed 30% of his passes and looked really awful if it wasn't for the shovel pass completion.

 

[funktavious]

You said:

If you are as good as any team in the country on offense, that would qualify as making you world beaters. I disagree that this will happen. The numbers simply don't back you up. You keep harping on the bad numbers that Bryant and Johnson put up in the spring game. Well, last year in REAL GAMES, South Carolina finished 115th in total offense. If we are going to go by numbers, like you are doing with Clemson, then the numbers simply don't support South Carolina going from 115 to "as good as any team in the country."




I would compare Clemson this year to 2014, when Watson was hurt half the season. Even with him being gone much of the year, Clemson still managed to win 10 games. Clemson has comparable talent across the board, so I would say a similar result is well within reason.

I would also say predicting South Carolina will be better offensively than Clemson is a stretch. Again, this offense, in REAL GAMES last year was 115th. I do think South Carolina will improve, and I think they have some good players (particularly Dowdle and Edwards). However, again, 115th.

Clemson's offense is losing every statistical leader from last season. There will be some dropoff but they are loaded with too much talent to not still be good, especially against some of the defenses they get to play against in the ACC. They get a warm up game against Kent State but then dive right in with games against Auburn and Louisville. Could be a little testy. USC, statistically, should improve dramatically. Look how much we improved from the first 6 games to the last 6 games and that was mostly due to the production of a true freshman QB, WR, and RB. If the offensive line improves then we could have a very good unit indeed.

 

[topdecktiger]

My argument about your quarterbacks is accurate. I'm not lying about your Spring Game stats nor Dabo's comments about the current best QB
on your roster. Sure, Clemson has
several proven wide receivers that Watson utilized as the 3rd or 4th guys in last seasons offense. They will move into the #1 and #2 roles this season but it appears they don't have a QB to get them the ball even when they are
open downfield. Cole Stout completed 63% of his passes in 2015 sharing the starting job with Deshaun. Your leader coming out of Spring Ball just completed 30% of his passes and looked really awful if it wasn't for the shovel pass completion.

And I'm not lying about Carolina's offensive stats from 2016. The offense finished 115th.

 

[Superior7]

And I'm not lying about Carolina's offensive stats from 2016. The offense finished 115th.

That they did but will be much improved in 2017. Roper / Bentley have them clicking. Accurate passing, receivers running great routes and catching everything and excellent depth @ running back. We had raw talent that has phased into experienced confident talent and will make a huge stride this season. Future is bright.....

 

[topdecktiger]

That they did but will be much improved in 2017. Roper / Bentley have them clicking. Accurate passing, receivers running great routes and catching everything and excellent depth @ running back. We had raw talent that has phased into experienced confident talent and will make a huge stride this season. Future is bright.....

And that's the problem. That's just a guess on your part, with nothing to back it up. Just like it's a guess that Clemson won't improve. To put it bluntly, Carolina's offense simply won't be as good as you think it is. I hate to tell you, but spring game stats don't have anything to do with what happens during the season.

 

[Superior7]

And that's the problem. That's just a guess on your part, with nothing to back it up. Just like it's a guess that Clemson won't improve. To put it bluntly, Carolina's offense simply won't be as good as you think it is. I hate to tell you, but spring game stats don't have anything to do with what happens during the season.

It is not a guess. They have the talent and skills. It is obvious on the field. The Freshmen inexperience that handicapped them in 2016 will not hold them back next season.

 

[radcock]

It is not a guess. They have the talent and skills. It is obvious on the field. The Freshmen inexperience that handicapped them in 2016 will not hold them back next season.

Houston will take watson....too bad.

 

[Superior7]

Houston will take watson....too bad.

When Watson gets his 1st legal paycheck for playing football, it will be from a GAMECOCK alumni that gave us $5 Million for our football operations facility recently. I like it.

 

[radcock]

When Watson gets his 1st legal paycheck for playing football, it will be from a GAMECOCK alumni that gave us $5 Million for our football operations facility recently. I like it.

I think watson will ultimately fail as an NFL QB. Now he is on a team I pull for, so I guess I will have to decide between believing that the smoke and mirrors offense he has played in (including high school) will translate into NFL success at QB, or hope that he is so bad that they give up on him quickly.

Currently, I don't believe either scenario, so i am guessing that houston will be a good team that can't go deep into the playoffs....which is par for the course. Maybe watson can massively improve on his inability to avoid favre type passes early that will lose games (unless you are favre) and just force the issue late in games when he has to. I just think that he is a great athlete and college QB who has had a couple great games against some good to great teams, that overshadowed some below average games against teams that clemson overmatched in talent at every position.

Of course, maybe Clowney takes him out in practice if he runs his mouth (but i doubt this as well, as we all know clemson players don't run their mouths or grab ball-sacks, and clowney does not practice hard)

But i will be pulling for him to kick some ass now....just like i pull for Hopkins (who i always said was better that Watkins...)

Quick call out to our gamecock who can see through the rivalry and pay local players some cashola.

 

[wallycock]

Can we please move on. Enough about the buildings.

 

[Superior7]

Can we please move on. Enough about the buildings.

So you don't like Robert McNair or appreciate his contribution to the University's football program? What kind of fan are you?

 

[CockerStaniel]

It is not a guess. They have the talent and skills. It is obvious on the field. The Freshmen inexperience that handicapped them in 2016 will not hold them back next season.

It almost sounds like you didn't watch much of last season. If you had, you'd know that the single biggest issue the Gamecocks had on offense was the OL. It wasn't just bad. It was dreadful. It's going to be below average again this year, if improved at all. Remember how we used to beat Clemson and they couldn't figure out why, since they had all those shiny skill players? Give me a reason, scheme and player-wise, why the OL is going to be better this year. "Because" isn't a reason, btw.

 

[IH8FATBRAD]

Anyone that can't admit we have weapons on O for next year is in denial. If the line improves modestly. . (Which we will), this team will have a very good O.

 

[CockerStaniel]

Anyone that can't admit we have weapons on O for next year is in denial. If the line improves modestly. . (Which we will), this team will have a very good O.

Fine. Give me a valid reason why the line will improve. Really, really believing it will improve isn't a valid reason.

 

[pluffmud]

That they did but will be much improved in 2017. Roper / Bentley have them clicking. Accurate passing, receivers running great routes and catching everything and excellent depth @ running back. We had raw talent that has phased into experienced confident talent and will make a huge stride this season. Future is bright.....

I hope you're right, but am worried about the OL.

 

[funktavious]

And I'm not lying about Carolina's offensive stats from 2016. The offense finished 115th.

For the season USC was ranked 115th but scoring doubled from the first half of the season to the 2nd. That's major improvement within one season. We have some really nice skill position players that were freshmen last season. My biggest concern is with the offensive line. The Spring game gave me a little hope for the offensive line. Either they have improved or the D-Line is really bad. I would guess that it's a little of both.

 

[gamecockox]

Fine. Give me a valid reason why the line will improve. Really, really believing it will improve isn't a valid reason.

No Shawn Elliot!

 

[radcock]

No Shawn Elliot!

To be honest, this is a valid reason.