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2022 Recruiting

Thanks. I can look at prospect film all day and still have no clue about what that means for college. The kids like Clowney everybody can pick out.
Let me watch basketball or soccer and I can envision much easier how they translate to college
Football is played to a large degree from the hips down. A guy with good athleticism that has good balance and can turn his hips can play football. Some of the best players I've seen were not real strong in upper body strength, but had powerful hips and legs and had quick feet.
Let me qualify that statement: Its also important to be good from the neck up. The player has to be able to grasp the concepts and assignments and be able to make correct split second decisions. Some guys just have a "nose for the ball" and are always in the right spot at the right time. That's something you can't see on film. You have to trust the coaches' judgment on that part.
 
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I’m not going to entertain these strawman arguments.

The fact remains our recruiting is worse now than it was under the previous staff. That’s troubling.
I’m not sure one can really make that argument.

Covid has turned recruiting upside down. Some HS’s had an abbreviated schedule, some didn’t play at all.

There are some nationally known “ no brainer” highly rated prospects. There are guys currently rated 4* solely because of the team they play for or the teams offering them. We had some highly rated guys show up for camp last month, and drop on our charts because they didn’t perform.

Conversely, we had some unknown (or little known) guys show up and light it up.

Previous staff certainly signed some higher rated guys, some of whom didn’t live up to expectations. This staff seems more cohesive. IMHO instead of nonstop bitching about who we sign, maybe it would be prudent to wait and see what they do.

We have some good players committed. I think we can sign 23 this year, so we have several slots left. There are several highly rated guys who have us in their top 4/5, we stand a shot at getting a few of them. I think we get Delp, and I think we’re looking good for the 4* RB from Va.

This staff has injected some enthusiasm, and we have several commits actively recruiting other guys.

Give ‘me a damn chance before you complain.
 
Football is played to a large degree from the hips down. A guy with good athleticism that has good balance and can turn his hips can play football. Some of the best players I've seen were not real strong in upper body strength, but had powerful hips and legs and had quick feet.
Let me qualify that statement: Its also important to be good from the neck up. The player has to be able to grasp the concepts and assignments and be able to make correct split second decisions. Some guys just have a "nose for the ball" and are always in the right spot at the right time. That's something you can't see on film. You have to trust the coaches' judgment on that part.
What everyone is looking at, evaluators and coaches alike, is whether or not a player has the physical capabilities (or the frame to develop physically) to comfortably fit in a winning program’s two-deep at some point during his college career. Can you put this guy on the field, against another power 5 team, and be confident he can compete physically. That seems to be the universal threshold for a four star player (or high three star who has been thoroughly evaluated)— that they are going to meet that minimum physical standard, at some point, for their likely position group, on a winning roster. Hips, balance, and short space burst for CB; Lateral burst, core strength, balance, hand strength for OL, etc.

The mental acuity and maturity are much more difficult to judge. And position groups that thrive on the combination of the physical and mental, QB and offensive line being the most apparent, are the hardest position groups to forecast.

There are obviously only so many guys each cycle who are highly likely to meet the physical standard. And every school has to take some scholarship players who aren’t obvious or likely to have the physical capabilities to be contributors, and hope there is development or they have suitable depth to use these players situationally (special teams, mop up duty, etc.). What was shocking about Muschamp was the sheer number of players in his two deep who absolutely did not meet the minimum physical standards to be in the two deep for a winning SEC program. Particularity at DB, linebacker, and wide receiver. And, perhaps, at QB. Although Bentley and Hilinski were probably more of the mental acuity and maturity side of under-performing. Too soon to say about Doty.

Muschamp was also really bad at hiding his weaker players. But I’m sure none of this was lost on him. He must have been terrified that his recruiting left him in a terrible place at multiple position groups.
 
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I make posts that are thought out with facts, logic, and knowledge I have accumulated about the game for over 40 years. When there are good things about the program I say so. However, when things don't look so good I also point that out in the interest of balancing realistic expectations. There are too many on here that are absolute Homers who distort things to give nothing but a rosy picture of the team when such is not the case. Most of these are clueless individuals who know little about the game. They just want to be cheerleaders. This is a discussion forum, not a cheerleading camp. I welcome anyone who wants to have a civil discussion about the facts. If they disagree with me, fine. I enjoy the debate. But I can assure you that when some idiot homer attacks me, calls me names, and tells me to go to tigernet I will fire back with both barrels blazing. I'm not going to tolerate BS. If you don't want to read it then you have the option to ignore it.

Yup.

Bleating is simple. And there is a WHOLE lot of simple on this board.

But, if ignorance brings them bliss, then good in ‘em.

It’s not difficult to determine who has had a lifetime of practice at it.
 
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Yes, but WHO makes up this flood of recruits.

We have enough data to know recruiting services have continuously gotten better at ranking high school players, and that recruiting is largely a game of probability.

Top 50 players are more likely to yield exceptional starters, and at worst solid contributors. Top 100 players are highly likely to yield very good starters, possible exceptional staters, and, at worst, contributors. You can do this on down the line, with a drop off around the 250 mark. You get beyond 250 and it’s more or less like playing the lottery.

The reason Alabama, Ohio State, Georgia, and Clemson are good year after year is because of the total number of top 250 players they bring in each cycle. They are, simply put, just statistically more likely to bring in starter level players in each class because they are getting the guys with the highest ceilings and the lowest floors.

In the classes that drove South Carolina’s success under Spurrier, 2007 - 2012, you’re looking at around 30 top 250 players over that 6 year cycle— with a handful of top 50 guys who hit as exceptional.

Muschamp did about half that in his 5 years, with the jury largely out on his three top 50 guys.

To date, Beamer has landed exactly one top 250 recruit. There is absolutely nothing to be excited about on that front at the moment.

This is all self-evident.

It’s not arguable.

Nothing really special about this class thus far.

However, it is absolutely fair to be happy that we seem to at least be getting back to our norm. We had certainly regressed the last couple years. And, given the headwinds, an honest assessment would be the staff is doing a good job thus far.

Now, our norm is typically average to mediocre for our conference and, recently, our hated rival.

So, that doesn’t really merit full throatle bleating. Especially when it is from the same dolts that would be laughing at the Taters if the results were reversed.

But, coaching matters. That’s the unknown I’m waiting to see.

With a good staff, we can at least get back to 7-5, 8-4. Maybe we can catch back up with UK, which is kinda sad but better than UcheaT, lol.

See, glass half full! Yee haw!
 
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I’m not going to entertain these strawman arguments.

The fact remains our recruiting is worse now than it was under the previous staff. That’s troubling.
So anything that doesn’t fit your narrative is a “strawman argument”. You equated recruiting rankings to wins which we obviously haven’t seen happening here.

I get there is a correlation between the top 5 to 10 teams and their recruiting but after that it gets a lot murkier. Obviously there was a disconnect with Muschamp and that caused a lot of damage to the program. If this staff can actually win games recruiting becomes a whole lot easier.
 
So anything that doesn’t fit your narrative is a “strawman argument”. You equated recruiting rankings to wins which we obviously haven’t seen happening here.

I get there is a correlation between the top 5 to 10 teams and their recruiting but after that it gets a lot murkier. Obviously there was a disconnect with Muschamp and that caused a lot of damage to the program. If this staff can actually win games recruiting becomes a whole lot easier.
No I didn’t. I equated recruiting rankings with our relative talent level.

You’re the one that brought up wins and losses. It appears you’re arguing Beamer will have more success with less talent.
 
I’m not sure one can really make that argument.

Covid has turned recruiting upside down. Some HS’s had an abbreviated schedule, some didn’t play at all.

There are some nationally known “ no brainer” highly rated prospects. There are guys currently rated 4* solely because of the team they play for or the teams offering them. We had some highly rated guys show up for camp last month, and drop on our charts because they didn’t perform.

Conversely, we had some unknown (or little known) guys show up and light it up.

Previous staff certainly signed some higher rated guys, some of whom didn’t live up to expectations. This staff seems more cohesive. IMHO instead of nonstop bitching about who we sign, maybe it would be prudent to wait and see what they do.

We have some good players committed. I think we can sign 23 this year, so we have several slots left. There are several highly rated guys who have us in their top 4/5, we stand a shot at getting a few of them. I think we get Delp, and I think we’re looking good for the 4* RB from Va.

This staff has injected some enthusiasm, and we have several commits actively recruiting other guys.

Give ‘me a damn chance before you complain.

I’m fine with taking a wait and see approach. But shouldn’t that apply both ways?

My issue is clearly with people proclaiming our recruiting IS successful when we don’t have any evidence to truly say that.
 
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Being pleasantly surprised is an appropriate feeling. There’s argument about this class ranking, and realistically it’s obvious that this class isn’t great, regardless of what the ranking show, but I bet it’s alot better than what most expected. Take these players and start winning some games and then you can really debate the greatness of classes. Until then, USC may get a great player here and there, but to win you need great players everywhere. I think Beamer is really showing promise.
 
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No I didn’t. I equated recruiting rankings with our relative talent level.

You’re the one that brought up wins and losses. It appears you’re arguing Beamer will have more success with less talent.
Ok so help me clarify why you are concerned about how the classes match up to Muschamp.
 
I’m fine with taking a wait and see approach. But shouldn’t that apply both ways?

My issue is clearly with people proclaiming our recruiting IS successful when we don’t have any evidence to truly say that.
So, your viewpoint is we shouldn’t discuss recruiting at all.

After all, in your opinion the previous staff signed better recruits. So you want to dump cold water on enthusiasm.

But we all know how those teams comprised of “better recruits” turned out.

No one knows how this team will play the next few years. But if I had a choice of higher rated guys who didn’t play like a cohesive team/buy in or slightly lower rated guys who bought in and performed better, I’d take the latter.

And who’s to say we aren’t getting good players? Many of the 3 stars committed are just a few percentage points from being a 4*. We’re in the mix with several highly rated guys. And Covid has affected evaluations so much there are more guys over and underrated than you’d normally expect.

Honestly, you’re just as bad as the poster who dumped cold water on our recruiting because they’re “only commits” at this point, not signees.

The constant negativity from the same posters just gets old. I think this staff/team is going to surprise people this year, if for no other reason than everyone from Beamer down to the walk ones seem to be pulling in the same direction instead of individuals pulling different ways.
 
So, your viewpoint is we shouldn’t discuss recruiting at all.

After all, in your opinion the previous staff signed better recruits. So you want to dump cold water on enthusiasm.

But we all know how those teams comprised of “better recruits” turned out.

No one knows how this team will play the next few years. But if I had a choice of higher rated guys who didn’t play like a cohesive team/buy in or slightly lower rated guys who bought in and performed better, I’d take the latter.

And who’s to say we aren’t getting good players? Many of the 3 stars committed are just a few percentage points from being a 4*. We’re in the mix with several highly rated guys. And Covid has affected evaluations so much there are more guys over and underrated than you’d normally expect.

Honestly, you’re just as bad as the poster who dumped cold water on our recruiting because they’re “only commits” at this point, not signees.

The constant negativity from the same posters just gets old. I think this staff/team is going to surprise people this year, if for no other reason than everyone from Beamer down to the walk ones seem to be pulling in the same direction instead of individuals pulling different ways.
Slow down with the slippery slopes. You’re welcome to talk recruiting all you want. But when you (in the general sense, not necessarily you as an individual) start claiming we are recruiting better than previous staffs, you’re objectively wrong.

Do you think the staff will surprise people or do you hope the staff will surprise people?

Of course you would rather have lower rated prospects that would preform better then higher rated prospects. Everyone one would. But you’re more likely to have lower rated recruits perform worse than higher rated recruits.
 
So, your viewpoint is we shouldn’t discuss recruiting at all.

After all, in your opinion the previous staff signed better recruits. So you want to dump cold water on enthusiasm.

But we all know how those teams comprised of “better recruits” turned out.

No one knows how this team will play the next few years. But if I had a choice of higher rated guys who didn’t play like a cohesive team/buy in or slightly lower rated guys who bought in and performed better, I’d take the latter.

And who’s to say we aren’t getting good players? Many of the 3 stars committed are just a few percentage points from being a 4*. We’re in the mix with several highly rated guys. And Covid has affected evaluations so much there are more guys over and underrated than you’d normally expect.

Honestly, you’re just as bad as the poster who dumped cold water on our recruiting because they’re “only commits” at this point, not signees.

The constant negativity from the same posters just gets old. I think this staff/team is going to surprise people this year, if for no other reason than everyone from Beamer down to the walk ones seem to be pulling in the same direction instead of individuals pulling different ways.
Bingo
 
To win obviously.

But before you come back with the strawman that I’m saying recruiting equals wins, think about it more and realize it’s more complex than that.
Which was my point previously that you’re focusing on rankings of a guy who got consistently beaten by people with lower ranked classes. It doesn’t matter if you finish 19th or 29th if you aren’t converting things to wins.
 
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