A 6-year streak of losing seasons in men's BB is realistic
- Thread starter rockingamecock
- Start date
Imo, Fogler wasn't thinking it would get this bad when he made that famous faux pax, 'South Carolina* fans shouldn't expect to go to the NCAA tourney every year (or even every other year)'.
*Eddie NEVER referred to USC as 'Carolina' - one more thing about him that pissed me off.
SEC Basketball, unlike football, baseball or women's basketball, is not the same caliber as ACC basketball, I've got to admit that - it's simply the truth. I could understand Clemson having only 5 winning seasons out of 24 in the ACC, but let's be honest, aside from UF's recent history (not of late, however) and Arky's great teams of the early 90's, SEC basketball mostly consists of Kentucky and the 13 dwarfs. We should be able to compete at at least .500 ball most of the time. What's wrong, and make no mistake about it, 'the program is broke' (sic).
Can't watch anymore. Tried last night but it is just painful to watch us try to score. I watched Thornwell in high school and he shot much better than he does now. Can't believe we have recruited a team with not 1 shooter.
Telling point for me last night was towards end of game when Chatkevicius made a nice 10-12 foot shot which was followed by a timeout. When he got to the bench Coach Martin was absolutely berating him about some play. He was relentless, spending much of the timeout screaming at him.
Heck, he should have been screaming for joy that we had someone make a shot!!! That really rubbed me the wrong way and as I said before, how can a team that looked so energetic and good at start of season regress this much? At some point the negativity and screaming has to wear on the players. I am not sure how else you explain the regression this season but if we played that well early why are we playing so poorly now?
Guys, by year 3 should we not see some improvement? I know some say 5-6 years but I think you should at least see improvement and what I am seeing is a team regress. Afraid we are not going to be better anytime soon.
Telling point for me last night was towards end of game when Chatkevicius made a nice 10-12 foot shot which was followed by a timeout. When he got to the bench Coach Martin was absolutely berating him about some play. He was relentless, spending much of the timeout screaming at him.
Heck, he should have been screaming for joy that we had someone make a shot!!! That really rubbed me the wrong way and as I said before, how can a team that looked so energetic and good at start of season regress this much? At some point the negativity and screaming has to wear on the players. I am not sure how else you explain the regression this season but if we played that well early why are we playing so poorly now?
Guys, by year 3 should we not see some improvement? I know some say 5-6 years but I think you should at least see improvement and what I am seeing is a team regress. Afraid we are not going to be better anytime soon.
The reality is that while success breeds success, losing breeds losing. It
will take something out of the ordinary to turn our basketball program around.
will take something out of the ordinary to turn our basketball program around.
REGRESS - that's the word. We have NOT shown, overall, bottom line, second half of the season - whatever, any visible improvement this year over last year. We have actually gone backwards. I'm with you. Frank's rants have gotten tiresome of late
and it's wearing on the players. I don't see how they perform as 'well' as they do with his tirades constantly ringing in their ears. Who the hell can concentrate on shooting with all that racket going on?
No wonder Staley's women's team is the 'Toast of the Town' - they're winning. Sure, she has her own 'ranting' issues, but watch her. Dawn's rants are carefully measured - she knows what she's doing and what she's saying to her players - and she does it without nearly as much use of profane language - at least in CLA. Frank's tirades often seem to be more out of control and, obviously . . . pointless.
Everyone points out how bad the program has been and it will take time to improve it. It shouldn't take that much time in basketball.
I'm 55 years old and can still probably shoot better than most players on this team. How can we not find anyone who can shoot the ball?
This post was edited on 2/25 9:12 AM by sanfordcock
I'm 55 years old and can still probably shoot better than most players on this team. How can we not find anyone who can shoot the ball?
This post was edited on 2/25 9:12 AM by sanfordcock
The state of the men's basketball program is truly awful. The shouts of "We're making progress!" have grown fainter and fainter... and we're now at the point where even the most delusional fan couldn't fool himself into seeing progress. The product on the floor is flat-out unwatchable, as this team churns out pitiful offensive performances by the dozen.
Next year is a make-or-break year for Martin in my opinion. If Carolina doesn't show significant improvement in wins and losses, to the point where we are at least a threat to make the NIT (~18-20 wins at least), then it'll be nearly impossible for Martin to sell the future of this program under his watch.
Next year is a make-or-break year for Martin in my opinion. If Carolina doesn't show significant improvement in wins and losses, to the point where we are at least a threat to make the NIT (~18-20 wins at least), then it'll be nearly impossible for Martin to sell the future of this program under his watch.
pepsicock
Well-Known Member
Frank is 4-11 in the SEC this year and 12-39 overall in the SEC. Stay the course for another 3, 5, 8 years? Insanity.
Remember when you said that Gregg Marshall "played high school teams," roughly 3 weeks before he went all the way to the Final Four?
Now you attack somebody else's intelligence?
This post was edited on 2/25 10:10 AM by Todd Lewis
Don't waste your breath, TL. If the old 'Cocks had their way, we'd still be playing football in a glorified State Fair grandstand, going 4-6 every year (the 12 game equivalent, that is), and kissing the ACC's butt while worshipping at the 'Tobacco Road' altar - but certainly we would not be members of the SEC.Originally posted by Todd Lewis:
Frank is 4-11 in the SEC this year and 12-39 overall in the SEC. Stay the course for another 3, 5, 8 years? Insanity.
. . . not to mention, it'll be nearly impossible to sell the future of this program TO SEASON TICKETHOLDERS! This will lead to a financial burden on the AD and will cut into those nice 'little' pay-outs we get from the conference. The ones the SEC 'Godfathers' (Presidents) get handed out to them by the Big Daddy Godfather (conference commish) while sitting around that big ole conference table in Destin!
This post was edited on 2/25 11:55 AM by 67gamecock
Here are the coaches who took over major conference programs, without a ton of historical success, in 2012. The results show it's hard to turn around a program (or build one). LSU has an up and down history, but is probably the closest to established program on this list, with a surprising final four appearance in 2006 and the Shaq legacy. If you want to give Martin another season or two, fine. But he's really not doing any better than the other coaches who took on program building jobs.
Frank Martin
41-51 (.446), SEC 13-37 (.260)
Jonny Jones (LSU)
58-38 (.630), SEC 26-24 (.520)
1 NIT appearance
Rick Ray (Miss State)
36-56 (.391), SEC 12-38 (.240)
Tim Miles (Nebraska)
47-41 (.534), Big Ten 21-26 (.447)
1 NCAA
Trent Johnson (TCU)
36-48 (.429), Big XII 3-39 (.071)
James Johnson (Va Tech)
22-41 (.349), ACC 6-30 (.167)
Fired
Illinois, K State and UCONN also made head coaching changes. Each of those teams have a history of success, championship success in UCONN's case and the coaches have been relatively successful-very successful in UCONN's case.
Frank Martin
41-51 (.446), SEC 13-37 (.260)
Jonny Jones (LSU)
58-38 (.630), SEC 26-24 (.520)
1 NIT appearance
Rick Ray (Miss State)
36-56 (.391), SEC 12-38 (.240)
Tim Miles (Nebraska)
47-41 (.534), Big Ten 21-26 (.447)
1 NCAA
Trent Johnson (TCU)
36-48 (.429), Big XII 3-39 (.071)
James Johnson (Va Tech)
22-41 (.349), ACC 6-30 (.167)
Fired
Illinois, K State and UCONN also made head coaching changes. Each of those teams have a history of success, championship success in UCONN's case and the coaches have been relatively successful-very successful in UCONN's case.
For some reason, some people think you can fix 40 years of problems in less than 3 years....after our 2 best players transferred....and 4 more were asked to leave after the first year.
Eddie Folger did it. He showed that all it takes is bringing in a couple of difference makers and you can turn a historically bad basketball program around pretty fast. Unfortunately Eddie couldn't maintain the strides he made - as he seemed to lose interest after those bad loses in the tourney.
Man.....we been beating our head against this wall forever. Dave Odom had us close. Not getting Greg Marshall was the biggest fail of the administration ever. Martin just never seems to truly coach as much as just deride, and plead. I dunno. If we could get Marshall back channel I say do it tomorrow. I will give a few extra grand. If not, next year is do or die for FM.
You don't like his rants? Who cares? He is going to rant whether we win or lose, that is what he does and how he coaches. Who are we going to hire to instantly come in here and fix this team right now? Tell me who is going to do it or shut up about it. The fact of the matter is that we have been really bad for years and it isn't going to turn around over night so the guy needs to have more time than usual. The circumstances don't leave any choice in the matter.
By the way I have lived in eight decades and two centurys and seen a lot of college sports and You
This post was edited on 2/26 2:07 AM by Tigerof66
For some reason, some people apparently believe that some far off time (3, 5, 7, 10 years into the future) means more than the present. It does not.
The present is just as important as the future. Right now counts and matters, and Frank is not producing right now.
I know you love Martin but you are lying. The only coaches we have fired in less than 5 years are Steve Newton and Darrin Horn. Tell me which one should have gotten more time.
we gave Horn a fourth year when everyone knew the meercy killing should have occurred after year three. How did that extra year work out? You are using Horn's 4rth year as a excuse Martin should get more time.
So no we are going to hold Darrin Horn's last three seasons against Frank Martin? Is that what it's coming to? Yes it's awful, Horn was awful. So awful he sabotaged this program for any future coach.
