Any ole miss commits we can pick off?
- Thread starter NooNoo
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Why wouldn't you want DeMarcus Gregory? Muschamp is a great recruiter and I trust his judgment on defensive players just about to the same extent I doubt his judgment on offensive ones.
Figure most of the kids at Ole Mi$$ will be looking for better deals than USC is offering
Yes and our WR recruiting has been outstanding with this staff, I have been impressed with Bryan McClendon. He flipped the talent and depth on his group in basically a year.
Bentley due to Byrnes connection was recruiting Gregory, and the young man wanted to go out of state and now we have other WR's like Vann rated higher, if Gregory is not a take, I will trust the staff on it.
The rest of their commitments looked like a bunch of 3 stars, and i didn't see a DE with pass rushing ability LOL
Ole Piss recruiting has surprisingly kind of tailed off recently with NCAA paying attention.
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Maybe someone on here knows the answer to this question. If the 2017 recruits have not yet enrolled are they free to transfer without having to sit out one year ?
I would trust Muschamp's opinion on defensive players, but not offensive. Particularly on ignoring a Rival's 4-star, it is hard to believe he has a bunch of WR recruits higher on the board that are seriously considering SC. Maybe this recruit is off the board entirely if he is asking for money or has character concerns. But I doubt there are a bunch of guys more physically talented that are higher on the board. If so, his spotty record on offensive recruits is showing.
The facts support Muschamp's staff as being able to scout and sign WR's, so far at South Carolina.
Their recruiting of offensive skill players has been outstanding, we did play 3 true freshman last year QB, RB, and WR that were "hits".
First Class
Bryan Edwards 6-3 209, who had the second best freshman WR season in school history after Alshon Jeffrey.
Clemson only offered as safety and he chose the Gamecocks. 44 catches, 590 yards, 4 touchdowns, started all 12 games
# 12 WR in the country by 247 out of HS
Dawkins, Davis, and Woods all played as True Freshman
Second Class
OrTre Smith,the # 1 player in the state in 2017, he is a big fast prospect who participated in spring and looks like a future star
# 19 WR out of HS,
Shi Smith, already the fastest player on the team per workout reports
Chad Terrell, a bigger WR out of Georgia who a lot is expected from.
Third class
We are suppose to bring in 3 WR's this year
Darius Rush, 6-2 172, a lifelong Gamecock fan and high jump champion and intriguing prospect given the leaping ability. Our first commitment for this class.
Josh Vann is down to Georgia and SC and much higher rated then Gregory on the recruiting services, top 20 WR vs Gregory at 76
Matt Hill is higher rated but probably will be Auburn
If South Carolina accepts the commitment from Tyquan Johnson at the cookout this weekend that will be slot # 2 taken. I would think no room for Gregory, Tyquan has shined at camp same size as Gregory, 6-3 195 and this is important, he wants to be a Gamecock. He is not as highly ranked as Gregory 40 slots lower in WR rankings but his camp was outstanding and that is important to this staff, in person evaluations. His film shows a pretty fluid smooth WR.
I wish our DL recruiting under Muschamp was where his skill position recruiting has been. He has gone after bigger WR's which is what i like mixed in with some slot speedier prospects.
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Rivals has Josh Vann the number 45 WR and Demarcus Gregory the No. 60 WR. Not sure where you are getting top 20 and #76 from. SC is likely not getting the Tucker, Georgia WR Vann anyway. Georgia is far more likely. In the big picture, your whole commitment list at all positions has two 4-star recruits. I can't see not having room for a 4-star WR like Gregory. The only reason would not be a talent reason but some other concern. If it is talent evaluation, I call it suspect. Rivals has neither Rush nor Johnson among the top 100 WRs.
We keep saying Muschamp is a great recruiter and great defensive coach but ......... honestly our defense hasn't gotten better under his watch And we are fighting it out for 3 stars. Just being real.
Man....all I have to say is look at the previous two years game film. If you can not see the improvement from the mess he inherited from Ward and co.....I can't help you. We were epically bad....so bad that Al Harris jr. started....now that is bad.
He hasn't been here for two seasons yet for crying out loud what are you talking about? He had either the youngest or second youngest team in the Country last year on what grounds are you judging. What did you expect? Ridiculous.
Espn has Vann has top 300, # 222, Gregory is not in top 300
247 now has Vann as # 36, Gegory is #76, at one point they had Vann at #20 on overall WR list i was perusing yesterday, but looks like his slid some.
I dont think Rivals is most accurate in ranking these guys but they have a great Gamecock message board!
For Vann per Kornblut on 7/20,
I think it’s kind of like 50-50 now,” Vann said. “It was back and forth. It was with Georgia, then South Carolina, then Georgia and then South Carolina. I’ve been to both schools the same amount of time. This will be my third time down to South Carolina and last weekend that was my third time down there (Georgia). Everything is kind of like 50-50 at this point. It will be tough to choose one.”
Maybe Georgia is a slight favorite since he is from there but he is in Columbia this weekend.
But again Gregory isnt at Camp, isnt in town, and still commited to Ole Miss, and Ronnie Jamison a unranked Juco WR who played QB at Irmo is and blew up at the camp and got a offer and probably commits Sunday it would seem. This staff loves former HS QB's that are getting positional changes, but maybe the staff sees another position?
So thats a player much lower ranked then Gregory that we will be taking, it seems
I expect Ole Miss wouldn't allow players to transfer within the conference. However, I believe if Ole Miss receives a postseason ban at the end of this season, then players are free to transfer to any school without sitting out since it would be the 2nd consecutive year of such a ban. I heard Finebaum mention something like that. If anyone can clarify the rule, please do.
I call your understanding of football talent evaluation suspect! You are valuing a recruiting website's ranking of Hs talent- opinions from a bunch of journalism nerds making barely enough to pay for their $900 a month rent payments- over guys who have been hired by massive state run institutions and paid MILLIONS of dollars a year to evaluate and coach talent... that is ass backwards. Rivals employees and sites like them do not have the experience, football backgrounds, nor the hands on evaluation time that coaches DO have. Stars mean nothin at all in the comtext you are referencing them "this guy is a 4* rated #10 and his position and the other guy is a 3* rated #12 at the same position by rivals, so obviously the 4* guy is better"- BUUUULLLLLSHIT. THERE IS NO MEASURABLE ON PAPER DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PLAYERS LIKE THAT. Even the Rivals rating is typically within one or two bips... IOW they dont fn know! Coaches are evaluating for more than which kid is the best athlete, they are evaluating character, looking for certain typeS of athletes that fit their schemes, leaders... Rivals is looking at a 40 time some half retarded Hs coach timed with a stop watch looking at kids running across lines drawn in the dirt... You just need to stop man, you are making yourself look like a fool.
Good post the only reason I was bringing up Vann rankings was because Mr, Texas was questioning that we had higher ranker WR on our board then Gregory, and obviously our staff likes Vann better so does Georgia and a bunch of other staffs and in this case most sites do as well not that any site is worth much, but some are pretty worthless and have better message boards due to the people posting!
These star rankings are like election polls they are wrong as many times as they are right. If a kid is obviously a man among boys like Clowney was he rates a 5* outside of that it's just a guess as to how good he can be. Coaches don't look at the kid like the so called ratings people do they also look at 2 or 3 years down the road. Grades, work habits, can he be coached, character is what's huge. Who needs a 4* or 5* rating if you can't qualify or if you're trouble?
If you don't like any recruiting sites's rankings, just look at the offer lists then. Look at their best 7 or 8 offers.
For Tyquan Johnson it is Kansas State, Georgia State, Kentucky, Mississippi state, West Virginia, Cincinnati and I guess who for a 7th? Troy?
For Darius Rush it is: Old Dominion, South Carolina State, Charlotte and Miami of Ohio. That's it.
For Gregory it is: Auburn, Florida, Nebraska, Tennessee, North Carolina, Arkansas, Louisville and you could go on with several more decent teams.
I don't think you really need recruiting rankings, just look at offer lists.
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That was my point. Perhaps there is a character issue or a wanting $$$ remuneration issue from the player that would drop him off Muschamp's recruiting lists, but it isn't a football talent reason and some above were suggesting it was.
Yes, offers tell the tale usually.
QUOTE="BattleshipTexas, post: 3418203, member: 342"]If you don't like any recruiting sites's rankings, just look at the offer lists then. Look at their best 7 or 8 offers.
For Tyquan Johnson it is Kansas State, Georgia State, Kentucky, Mississippi state, West Virginia, Cincinnati and I guess who for a 7th? Troy?
For Darius Rush it is: Old Dominion, South Carolina State, Charlotte and Miami of Ohio. That's it.
For Gregory it is: Auburn, Florida, Nebraska, Tennessee, North Carolina, Arkansas, Louisville and you could go on with several more decent teams.
I don't think you really need recruiting rankings, just look at offer lists.[/QUOTE]
QUOTE="BattleshipTexas, post: 3418203, member: 342"]If you don't like any recruiting sites's rankings, just look at the offer lists then. Look at their best 7 or 8 offers.
For Tyquan Johnson it is Kansas State, Georgia State, Kentucky, Mississippi state, West Virginia, Cincinnati and I guess who for a 7th? Troy?
For Darius Rush it is: Old Dominion, South Carolina State, Charlotte and Miami of Ohio. That's it.
For Gregory it is: Auburn, Florida, Nebraska, Tennessee, North Carolina, Arkansas, Louisville and you could go on with several more decent teams.
I don't think you really need recruiting rankings, just look at offer lists.[/QUOTE]
I agree offer lists count, the problem is figuring out what is commit able offers and what is not and that is not readily available.
There is a WR last year Austin Connor who rivals says had offers from ECU, South Carolina, Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Virgina Tech. There was also a reported Georgia offer, and he is a walk on at South Carolina this fall.
Is Gregory higher ranked then Rush, absolutely, better offer offer list, absolutely, will he be a better player, i dont know, would the staff rescind his offer if Gregory who picked another school wanted to come, absolutely not.
This staff has a good track record on WR recruits so far, i don't care what happened at Florida since you have new staff members involved, diff WR coach etc.
I think we have higher ranked prospects on our board such as Vann and we dropped him earlier for a reason, Bentley is fairly connected to Byrnes.
The fact that out of all those offers he made probably made the worse choice possible in Ole Miss should tell you something.
Im not saying Ole Miss has a recent track record of bad character guys, oh wait
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Let's hope the new offensive coaches are able to influence him to the best choices. My experience with Muschamp is more Texas than Florida. He had a lot of influence his last year, we even named him head-coach-in-waiting and he had a salary commensurate with that. Muschamp pushed for conservative, plodding, power running offenses that would keep his defense off the field. This was at a time the Big 12 was dominated by the spread and throw it 60 times a game offenses. The general consensus at Texas was that it was better to have Muschamp concentrate on defense and leave the offense to offensive folk, his offensive ideas were somewhat simplistic. We loved Muschamp, he was a great recruiter and a great motivator, the kids loved to play for him. Better kept away from the offense.
Wrong. Don't go by his Fla days or Texas days. Our WR and RB recruits have been best of all positions. Lot of that is Bentley and BMac but Muschamp involved.
Maybe guys in their mid 40s who have been a coach for 20+ years can change. Not many do. Maybe his offensive coaches are more persuasive than before. I am not sure that "WR and RB recruits have been best of all positions" necessarily proves what you think it does. Being dealt 4 aces doesn't mean you are a good poker player.
Those 2 positions have been the best since he has been here. Look at who the additions are since he has been here including RB transfer Williams. Add Edwards and 2 Smiths at WR. Dowdle at RB. What position has been recruited better than WR and RB since he showed up ? You could make an argument for QB with Bentley and Joyner but once again they are on offense. Your point was you wouldn't trust his judgement on offense for a recruit or his evaluation. If he has final say it seems it is solid to me. Also look at Dowdle's offers. That turned out pretty well
Bryan McClendon is the WR coach, and Co Offensive Coordinator, we know Roper is making the calls and the OC, and it was a way to pay Mr. McClendon more money and get his services.
I think Muschamp signs off the recruits, but anyone McClendon wants he gets, McClendon is a 2014 recruiter of the year,
“Selfishly, I was most excited to get the guys at my position,” McClendon said. “Because I will be able to work with those guys on a daily basis and be responsible for their development.”
He is picking his groceries not Muschamp.
He was a WR at Georgia, and coached running backs at Georgia, and I could list the backs he brought in and it impressive but he did also recruit in 2014 their best WR Isaiah McKensie.
I think Muschamp signs off the recruits, but anyone McClendon wants he gets, McClendon is a 2014 recruiter of the year,
“Selfishly, I was most excited to get the guys at my position,” McClendon said. “Because I will be able to work with those guys on a daily basis and be responsible for their development.”
He is picking his groceries not Muschamp.
He was a WR at Georgia, and coached running backs at Georgia, and I could list the backs he brought in and it impressive but he did also recruit in 2014 their best WR Isaiah McKensie.
National Defense Rank 2015 - 92nd
National Defense Rank 2016 - 66th
This was all with no help from a strong returning upperclass (as in, it didn't exist) and the reliance on a LOT of younger guys...so for me personally I take that as a nice improvement and think we'll see maybe a similar bump this year to around #40.
I think anything ranked better than that would be gravy but unrealistic to expect.
We have 2 pretty decent turnover "hawks" this year in Moore and King. I'm really hoping King has bulked up a little, he could have an amazing year if so.
National Defense Rank 2016 - 66th
This was all with no help from a strong returning upperclass (as in, it didn't exist) and the reliance on a LOT of younger guys...so for me personally I take that as a nice improvement and think we'll see maybe a similar bump this year to around #40.
I think anything ranked better than that would be gravy but unrealistic to expect.
We have 2 pretty decent turnover "hawks" this year in Moore and King. I'm really hoping King has bulked up a little, he could have an amazing year if so.
If you watch both tapes of Gregory and Tyquan Johnson, and didn't know who was who, to me Tyquan Johnson is the 4 star and Gregory the 3 star on game tape.
On the tape is i saw, Gregory some makes some nice red zone plays, can catch in traffic, but overall his separation wasn't that impressive.
But he did have 122 yards in his sophomore season and improve to 661 yards receiving his junior year.
While Gregory's tape and stats are not over whelming i guess he went to rivals camp and did good? About 2 minutes is on youtube of that.
I dont think Johnson went to rivals camp, actually read Screven County does not churn out the major prospects, one article said a guy named cook in 2002 was the last one, sometimes if a school is not a hot bed and a regular stop for recruiters and doesn't send the player to camps and such they can get less offers.
From the tape and our staff, and the fact Bobby Bentley knows Byrnes so well, we have former Byrnes players, I'm fine with us backing off prior to April and trust it was for good reason and Johnson over Gregory, and will trust the staff, in particular Bryan McClendon's eye for talent, he has been following Johnson since he was at Georgia and Johnson was a freshman in HS.
On the tape is i saw, Gregory some makes some nice red zone plays, can catch in traffic, but overall his separation wasn't that impressive.
But he did have 122 yards in his sophomore season and improve to 661 yards receiving his junior year.
While Gregory's tape and stats are not over whelming i guess he went to rivals camp and did good? About 2 minutes is on youtube of that.
I dont think Johnson went to rivals camp, actually read Screven County does not churn out the major prospects, one article said a guy named cook in 2002 was the last one, sometimes if a school is not a hot bed and a regular stop for recruiters and doesn't send the player to camps and such they can get less offers.
From the tape and our staff, and the fact Bobby Bentley knows Byrnes so well, we have former Byrnes players, I'm fine with us backing off prior to April and trust it was for good reason and Johnson over Gregory, and will trust the staff, in particular Bryan McClendon's eye for talent, he has been following Johnson since he was at Georgia and Johnson was a freshman in HS.
Edwards and the two Smiths are all 4-stars. No one is questioning he is a good recruiter. Those 4-stars didn't take any evaluation skill. They were known by all to be good players, that is why they were rated high by all the recruiting services. We are talking about evaluation. Trusting him when he takes a 3-star and turns down a 4-star at the same position.
Texas that is where you lost this argument, you are not suppose to base your case on 3 vs 4 star but No star Juco Ronnie Jamison vs a 4 star Gregory.
For the Jamison vs Gregory argument, I have no counter, you win ! LOL
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