Are others starting to agree with me yet?
- Thread starter Rod Dangerfield
- Start date
Get back with me after the Georgia series this weekend, Rod. We may well be in first place in the division at that point.
Let's talk after the season and we'll see where "The State of the Baseball Program" is heading...Originally posted by Rod Dangerfield:
Baseball is a long season and things do change during the season...
On a side note, The Braves suck!!! Need new management...
Do what?Originally posted by world famous 3rd base hecklers:
Originally posted by Rod Dangerfield:
On a side note, The Braves suck!!! Need new management...
They have a new GM. Hart is doing great things. He's putting out a competitive team while replenishing the farm system. They went from the bottom five in pitching prospects to now the top 5. Got rid of hefty contracts and high strikeout rated players and brought in quality players. Only thing he can't do is get a team to be dumb enough to take BJ's contract.
Agree 100%. I'm not sure what people wanted the Braves to do this offseason. Their farm system is empty and that was priority one. As for bringing Fredi back, no sense in hiring someone who is unlikely to have much success for the next two seasons... now 2017, I suspect we'll have a new manager to go along with the new stadium and will likely have a competitor for a team again.Originally posted by AgnosticTrollCock:
Do what?Originally posted by world famous 3rd base hecklers:
Originally posted by Rod Dangerfield:
On a side note, The Braves suck!!! Need new management...
They have a new GM. Hart is doing great things. He's putting out a competitive team while replenishing the farm system. They went from the bottom five in pitching prospects to now the top 5. Got rid of hefty contracts and high strikeout rated players and brought in quality players. Only thing he can't do is get a team to be dumb enough to take BJ's contract.
Nope. It's baseball. Not matter who you are, there are some up and down years.
Remember when SC went to 3 straight CWS in early 2000s (02, 03, 04)?
Remember some of these years afterwards:
2005 - Lost in NCAA regional that year. Lost to Clemson 2x. Lost to Furman 2x that season
2006 - Lost in Super Regional - Lost 3 out of 4 to Clemson. Lost to Elon and Wofford, went 15-15 in SEC (still made it to Supers)
2007 - Lost to Citadel and College of Charleston. Lost in Super Regional
2008 - Lost in Regional. Lost to Charlotte, Yale, and Furman that year. Went 15-15 in SEC
2009 - Lost in regional. Lost to Wofford, twice to the Citadel, Lost twice to Clemson
Fans were probably screaming to fire Tanner after each of those years because it is our God-given right to go to Omaha every year.
I don't like losing, but the knee-jerk reactions by some posters is ridiculous. Some folks need some time away from the computer. Funny how some thing that thousand of posts on message boards make them smarter.
The goal is to get to the postseason and play your best ball then. Not easy to do every year. Sometimes 19 year old kids don't hit the ball or pitch the ball the way you would like. Pathetic.
Go Gamecocks!
Remember when SC went to 3 straight CWS in early 2000s (02, 03, 04)?
Remember some of these years afterwards:
2005 - Lost in NCAA regional that year. Lost to Clemson 2x. Lost to Furman 2x that season
2006 - Lost in Super Regional - Lost 3 out of 4 to Clemson. Lost to Elon and Wofford, went 15-15 in SEC (still made it to Supers)
2007 - Lost to Citadel and College of Charleston. Lost in Super Regional
2008 - Lost in Regional. Lost to Charlotte, Yale, and Furman that year. Went 15-15 in SEC
2009 - Lost in regional. Lost to Wofford, twice to the Citadel, Lost twice to Clemson
Fans were probably screaming to fire Tanner after each of those years because it is our God-given right to go to Omaha every year.
I don't like losing, but the knee-jerk reactions by some posters is ridiculous. Some folks need some time away from the computer. Funny how some thing that thousand of posts on message boards make them smarter.
The goal is to get to the postseason and play your best ball then. Not easy to do every year. Sometimes 19 year old kids don't hit the ball or pitch the ball the way you would like. Pathetic.
Go Gamecocks!
^
Stop comparing Holbrook to Tanner because there is absolutley no comparison so far. Tanner built an elite program from the ground up with little talent. Holbrook has done less with more so far. We'll see how this season plays out.
Stop comparing Holbrook to Tanner because there is absolutley no comparison so far. Tanner built an elite program from the ground up with little talent. Holbrook has done less with more so far. We'll see how this season plays out.
You couldn't possibly be more wrong if you went the wrong way on an interstate exit ramp. The team that Holbrook inherited in 2013 was missing the heart and soul of the elite teams you refer to, including Roth, Price, Wingo, Haney, Morales, Merrifield, Bradley Jr., Matthews, Cooper, Dyson,etc. Holbrook did inherit a rebuilding job in 2013, and has done an admirable job in doing so.
This post was edited on 3/25 12:44 PM by searooster
Tanner also had already built a national program in the early 2000s with some of the most talented teams in the entire country but still failed to do better than mediocre for 5 straight years. So who could he blame for that? Oh right, Bush. Forgot.
This^^^ and for Tanner to finish 2nd in the CWS after back to back was a great job without the heart and sole of Wingo, Merrifield, JBJ, Morales, Mooney, Taylor and Jake Williams.
^
There's no talent gap. Webb, Pankake, Martin, English, Greiner (maybe the best catcher at Carolina) and Bright all played in Omaha under Tanner (Greiner and Pankake started in 2012) but missed out or have missed out so far under Holbrook. We've had top recruiting classes every year especially after winning the national titles. The talent that Holbrook retained and has brought in is the same as the guys that led us to the titles. He's the recruiting guru, remember. Our players were good enough to play anywhere in the country out of high school-look at the money Crowe turned down to play here.
This post was edited on 3/25 2:34 PM by sclawman77
There's no talent gap. Webb, Pankake, Martin, English, Greiner (maybe the best catcher at Carolina) and Bright all played in Omaha under Tanner (Greiner and Pankake started in 2012) but missed out or have missed out so far under Holbrook. We've had top recruiting classes every year especially after winning the national titles. The talent that Holbrook retained and has brought in is the same as the guys that led us to the titles. He's the recruiting guru, remember. Our players were good enough to play anywhere in the country out of high school-look at the money Crowe turned down to play here.
This post was edited on 3/25 2:34 PM by sclawman77
I love that the basic consensus on this board is that Frank Martin, who was handed an absolute dumpster fire and has gradually improved each year, should be fired, while Chad Holbrook, who was handed literally the top program in college baseball and is declining each year, "needs time."
Consensus? I'm not sure this word means what you think it means.
It's always good to start an argument with a false narrative.
Yes, everyone wants Frank Martin fired. And yes, everyone thinks Holbrook "needs time." Got it.
OK, Mr sunshine pumper here. I truly find this thread to be rather absurd. Let's look at a little history.
I think we would all agree that the 3 year period of 2010-2012 with 2 national championships and 1 runner up, to be probably the best period of Gamecock baseball. In 2010 and 2011, after 25 games we were 20-5, a whopping 2 games better than our current 18-7 mark. In those 2 years our SEC mark was 5-1 and 5-2, a little better than our current 4-2 record. In 2012, our overall mark was exactly the same as it is today, 18-7. Our SEC record was 1-5, yet we made the CWS championship game. So how, exactly, are we gonna say our program has declined? Really? Those 3 years, we also got quite a few lucky breaks that this years team hasn't gotten, but that's baseball.
At 18-7, our winning % is 72%...you do know that quite a few MLB champions, finish with a winning % in the 60's. A lot can still happen in this season, to be jumping all over this coaching staff and team is just plain absurd!
I think we would all agree that the 3 year period of 2010-2012 with 2 national championships and 1 runner up, to be probably the best period of Gamecock baseball. In 2010 and 2011, after 25 games we were 20-5, a whopping 2 games better than our current 18-7 mark. In those 2 years our SEC mark was 5-1 and 5-2, a little better than our current 4-2 record. In 2012, our overall mark was exactly the same as it is today, 18-7. Our SEC record was 1-5, yet we made the CWS championship game. So how, exactly, are we gonna say our program has declined? Really? Those 3 years, we also got quite a few lucky breaks that this years team hasn't gotten, but that's baseball.
At 18-7, our winning % is 72%...you do know that quite a few MLB champions, finish with a winning % in the 60's. A lot can still happen in this season, to be jumping all over this coaching staff and team is just plain absurd!
We lost a lot of key players last year that we are struggling to replace. I see the potential of this team though and we are not too far off going on a hot streak imo if we can just sort a few things out so give Holbrook a chance to manage this team and judge him after the year.
In college baseball, you lose key players every year, that is an excuse. Let's look at the truth in what was returning.....
Caldwell-starter in LF prior to inury last year
Cone-gained experience due to injuries, part time starter
Bright-returning two year starter
Arendas-part time starter, played significant innings leading to his junior year
Mooney-returning starter
Schrock-two year returning starter
Martin-returning starter, part time starter as soph
2/3 of the weekend rotation returned
Our new/inexperience guys are Gore (limited time as freshman), Koch, Destino. As well as the closer role
This doesn't sound like a team who hosted a regional last year that should be "worse" this year or does it?
If a top 10 program returns 7 position players who were starters/part time starters, 2 weekend starting pitchers the "we lost a lot" doesn't hold water. We lose far more off this team heading into next year so will those of you be saying "look at what we lost...schrock,martin,caldwell,bright, wynkoop etc.....if it wasn't for schrock, martin, caldwell we might never score a run...apologies to Destino as he is going to be a stud.
While I agree the loss of Greiner has been huge, the fact is Holbrook had time to have someone ready to replace him.
Two things are worrisome beyond whatever the results are this year.
1. it appears our recruiting has slipped, either we missed on kids who went elsewhere, missed by bringing them in or they are not being developed
2. pitchers progression. But that is always been a knock on meyers is the use of a "short" BP so we don't really know if not progressing or not trusted?
Caldwell-starter in LF prior to inury last year
Cone-gained experience due to injuries, part time starter
Bright-returning two year starter
Arendas-part time starter, played significant innings leading to his junior year
Mooney-returning starter
Schrock-two year returning starter
Martin-returning starter, part time starter as soph
2/3 of the weekend rotation returned
Our new/inexperience guys are Gore (limited time as freshman), Koch, Destino. As well as the closer role
This doesn't sound like a team who hosted a regional last year that should be "worse" this year or does it?
If a top 10 program returns 7 position players who were starters/part time starters, 2 weekend starting pitchers the "we lost a lot" doesn't hold water. We lose far more off this team heading into next year so will those of you be saying "look at what we lost...schrock,martin,caldwell,bright, wynkoop etc.....if it wasn't for schrock, martin, caldwell we might never score a run...apologies to Destino as he is going to be a stud.
While I agree the loss of Greiner has been huge, the fact is Holbrook had time to have someone ready to replace him.
Two things are worrisome beyond whatever the results are this year.
1. it appears our recruiting has slipped, either we missed on kids who went elsewhere, missed by bringing them in or they are not being developed
2. pitchers progression. But that is always been a knock on meyers is the use of a "short" BP so we don't really know if not progressing or not trusted?
Re: To convince some of the more knowledgeable fans you are
going to have to come up with a time when Holbrook will have a better recruiting advantage and environment in CHOOSING quality players than coming off a Nat Champ game following back-to-back National Championships????
This team should be loaded from top to bottom along with down the bench with TOP 4 level SEC\NCAA talent at every position...instead we have a middle of the pack pitching staff with a lineup loaded with players whom can not break the Mendoza line (and we have not even hit the difficult part of the season yet)
Holbrook to this point was given a Bentley with a tank of gas and he is driving it across a bumpy field toward the ditch.
going to have to come up with a time when Holbrook will have a better recruiting advantage and environment in CHOOSING quality players than coming off a Nat Champ game following back-to-back National Championships????
This team should be loaded from top to bottom along with down the bench with TOP 4 level SEC\NCAA talent at every position...instead we have a middle of the pack pitching staff with a lineup loaded with players whom can not break the Mendoza line (and we have not even hit the difficult part of the season yet)
Holbrook to this point was given a Bentley with a tank of gas and he is driving it across a bumpy field toward the ditch.
If I were to ever agree with you I'd give up sports. Just don't get the thrill for some of you guys. Watching something you know nothing about, Doesn't sound fun.
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