Basketball Problem

[Carolina4]

I look at our basketball struggles like this:

There are generally 4 category of players

• Good athletes who are basketball players
• Good athletes
• Good basketball players with less athletic ability
• Average athletes with no basketball skills

We’ve gotten a few out of Category 1. Thornwell and Dozier come to mind. But by far the majority of player we get is from category 2 or 4. We simply never are able to bring basketball players in here.

Mid-Majors get the category 3 guys. It’s amazing how many times we get run out of the arena but a bunch of white dudes that just know how to play the game better than we do. It’s becoming the norm, not only for us, but for much of the basketball world. We, and others, are passing better players because of athletic ability or potential. Frank does develop these guys well...but we need at least half of our team to be guys that can just play the freaking game.

Every year we look like the dumbest team out there. We’re in your face for 40 minutes but we breakdown often and give up 10 easy layups a game. The rest of the time we are hacking the opponent because we broke down on D. That’s because we have athletes, not basketball players. Offensively we haven’t been able to score for sometime now. We don’t pass well.
We don’t move well. We don’t have basketball players that understand the game.

 

[Sending an SOS]

That’s a pretty darn good assessment, and I agree with you. Seems like we should go after #3 because #1 will only net us a player or two every 3-5 recurring cycles

 

[adcoop]

I look at our basketball struggles like this:

There are generally 4 category of players

• Good athletes who are basketball players
• Good athletes
• Good basketball players with less athletic ability
• Average athletes with no basketball skills

We’ve gotten a few out of Category 1. Thornwell and Dozier come to mind. But by far the majority of player we get is from category 2 or 4. We simply never are able to bring basketball players in here.

Mid-Majors get the category 3 guys. It’s amazing how many times we get run out of the arena but a bunch of white dudes that just know how to play the game better than we do. It’s becoming the norm, not only for us, but for much of the basketball world. We, and others, are passing better players because of athletic ability or potential. Frank does develop these guys well...but we need at least half of our team to be guys that can just play the freaking game.

Every year we look like the dumbest team out there. We’re in your face for 40 minutes but we breakdown often and give up 10 easy layups a game. The rest of the time we are hacking the opponent because we broke down on D. That’s because we have athletes, not basketball players. Offensively we haven’t been able to score for sometime now. We don’t pass well.
We don’t move well. We don’t have basketball players that understand the game.

The ingredient you are missing is scheme. I have seen some good basketball players look bad because coaches don’t know how to put players in a position to succeed. We pressure the ball way too much and don’t have the rim protection to cover up players getting broken down. We have some decent shooters, but we have far too much one-on-one play with guys failing to look weak side. We shoot too many contested shots. That recipe will even make decent players look bad. You switch the teams and give Liberty our athletes and the 16 point loss turns into a 36 point loss as Frank would have less athletic players out there trying to pressure the basketball.

 

[Silver_Coconut]

The ingredient you are missing is scheme. I have seen some good basketball players look bad because coaches don’t know how to put players in a position to succeed. We pressure the ball way too much and don’t have the rim protection to cover up players getting broken down. We have some decent shooters, but we have far too much one-on-one play with guys failing to look weak side. We shoot too many contested shots. That recipe will even make decent players look bad. You switch the teams and give Liberty our athletes and the 16 point loss turns into a 36 point loss as Frank would have less athletic players out there trying to pressure the basketball.

Aside from Keyshawn and Hannibal, they were better athletes. But there were a lot of light skinned people, so it's an optical illusion.

 

[midline]

I don't have an issue with Frank's coaching. Actually think Frank is a pretty good coach from a tactical standpoint. But it gets back to recruiting. Look at the vast majority of the guys USC signs. They beat mid level type teams for them. Much like in football, they rarely beat teams they need to beat on the court on the recruiting trail. And I'm not sure why. Maybe Frank just isn't going to play the AAU game that has become more important than high school. But if you are going to win, that is a game that has to be played

 

[tngamecock#]

Why do we struggle so early in the season with a lesser teams. We seem to get a little better as the season goes on but by then we’re in a dog fight trying to earn an NCAA bed inside the conference. I just don’t understand as I felt we would be much better. We miss Kotsar

 

[GCDC1959]

Maybe we would be better if Lawson hadn't gone pro....tongue in cheek.

 

[OldWiseCock]

I will wait until we have played a few games. Liberty is a good team that won 30 games last year and has played exhibition games and regular season games already this year. This was our first game.

But we looked slow and out of position on defense. Everything was just beyond our fingertips. We just don't play like we want to win. I'm not sure why.

I know one thing. We are not firing Frank Martin anytime soon. We are stuck with him.

 

[Carolina4]

I will wait until we have played a few games. Liberty is a good team that won 30 games last year and has played exhibition games and regular season games already this year. This was our first game.

But we looked slow and out of position on defense. Everything was just beyond our fingertips. We just don't play like we want to win. I'm not sure why.

I know one thing. We are not firing Frank Martin anytime soon. We are stuck with him.

I think Frank can coach. I don’t know if we’ll get a better coach than him. Different style, sure. I think Frank just brings in the wrong kind of players. At least some of them. We need some high IQ guys that can play the game. Frank is always pissed because his guys can’t run his defense. They can’t do it. We’ve seen it work. We got to the final four doing it. It can work. We just don’t have the players like Duane Notice our there playing D along with two really good basketball players in Dozier and Sin.

 

[SweetgrassVodka]

I think Frank can coach. I don’t know if we’ll get a better coach than him. Different style, sure. I think Frank just brings in the wrong kind of players. At least some of them. We need some high IQ guys that can play the game. Frank is always kissed because his guys can’t run his defense. They can’t do it. We’ve seen it work. We got to the final four doing it. It can work. We just don’t have the players like Duane Notice our there playing D along with two really good basketball players in Dozier and Sin.

Great assessment!! Totally agree!

 

[ansoncock]

"We just don’t have the players like Duane Notice our there playing D along with two really good basketball players in Dozier and Sin."

Agreed. Well, we should just recruit some of them, then!

 

[wbryant]

I look at our basketball struggles like this:

There are generally 4 category of players

• Good athletes who are basketball players
• Good athletes
• Good basketball players with less athletic ability
• Average athletes with no basketball skills

We’ve gotten a few out of Category 1. Thornwell and Dozier come to mind. But by far the majority of player we get is from category 2 or 4. We simply never are able to bring basketball players in here.

Mid-Majors get the category 3 guys. It’s amazing how many times we get run out of the arena but a bunch of white dudes that just know how to play the game better than we do. It’s becoming the norm, not only for us, but for much of the basketball world. We, and others, are passing better players because of athletic ability or potential. Frank does develop these guys well...but we need at least half of our team to be guys that can just play the freaking game.

Every year we look like the dumbest team out there. We’re in your face for 40 minutes but we breakdown often and give up 10 easy layups a game. The rest of the time we are hacking the opponent because we broke down on D. That’s because we have athletes, not basketball players. Offensively we haven’t been able to score for sometime now. We don’t pass well.
We don’t move well. We don’t have basketball players that understand the game.

That is a very critical eye view of things. FM builds and they seem to be just fine in the end usually. I did not say all the time, but more often than not. Frank Martin is a very good teacher of the game and life. Leave that alone USC. You will be better for doing so.

 

[Carolina4]

That is a very critical eye view of things. FM builds and they seem to be just fine in the end usually. I did not say all the time, but more often than not. Frank Martin is a very good teacher of the game and life. Leave that alone USC. You will be better for doing so.

If you read the thread you’ll see I actually think Frank can coach and that we probably won’t get a better coach in here. But surely you can understand the reason or criticism or negativity? I stand by my evaluation. Martin doesn’t have the right kind of players in this program. These guys simply can’t accomplish what he wants to do defensively. And then, as a result they can’t do anything offensively. We’d be better off with some high IQ ball players with a little less athletic ability to get the job done. Would be nice to have 2-3 shooters from outside as well like these early season teams that drag us every year have.

 

[ExpatCarolinian]

That is a very critical eye view of things. FM builds and they seem to be just fine in the end usually. I did not say all the time, but more often than not. Frank Martin is a very good teacher of the game and life. Leave that alone USC. You will be better for doing so.

Just wish he could “build” more in off season and pre-season practice so that we are ready to play the early non-conference games instead of always having bad non-conference blemishes hurting our tournament resume.

 

[Carolina4]

Just wish he could “build” more in off season and pre-season practice so that we are ready to play the early non-conference games instead of always having bad non-conference blemishes hurting out tournament resume.

That’s the one positive here today. The Liberty loss will not be considered a bad loss. I know in our eyes we see Liberty and assume we should win. But the committee knows they are a solid team. Today is a must-win.

 

[OldWiseCock]

Just wish he could “build” more in off season and pre-season practice so that we are ready to play the early non-conference games instead of always having bad non-conference blemishes hurting out tournament resume.

Last night we looked out of sync and seemed a step slow. If I didn't know better I would say we didn't scout them very well. A lot of that was because of Liberty. They are a really good team.

Honestly, I'm tired of these slow starts on the OOC part of our schedule. It is not fun to watch SC play in December.