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Right....because no punter or FG kicker has ever been coached a day in their life....geez.
CBS: ranking coaching hires
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Yeah, because all special teams coaches are expert kickers and punters......riiiiigggghhhhhtttt!
I guess that's why a number of kickers are recruited from soccer teams and never played football in their lives until then, and all ST Coaches are secretly part time soccer coaches, too, right?
Uh there are a ton of punt return, and punt formations. There are also audibles and adjustments. Kick off return fotmations, kick defense approaches.
There are also a ton of tendencies to exploit and self scout to make sure they don’t take advantage of yours
There are also a ton of tendencies to exploit and self scout to make sure they don’t take advantage of yours
Honestly how can someone watch the last 5 years of punt returns and think that there is no coaching involved in special teams?
Actually they hone their skills in basically 2 ways. First, they collaborate with other kickers and former kickers to get tips on their form and execution. Sometimes they do this by attending camps for that.
The second thing they do is practice, practice, practice, practice. While the rest of the team are doing drills,scrimmaging, etc, the kickers are off to the side kicking for the entire practice.
Shane Beamer was a walk-on WR and a long snapper according to his bio. He was never a punter or FG kicker. As a special teams coach, just what kicking insights do you think he imparted onto his kickers and punters?
Right because only kickers can coach other kickers, and players are NEVER coached by a coach who didn’t play their position.
Geez, the level some of you “fans” go to disparage our HC. There is more to ST than just the kickers, there are different formations and assignments on any given play. If it was a simple as you try to make it seem, all any team has to do is stay in their lane. Such naïveté.
Have you ever been a part of a college football team? That statement is wrong. There is only one formation for a FG or extra point team. Every team runs it. There are 7 lineman, 2 wingbacks, a holder and a Kicker. Kickoff teams line up 10 guys on the 30 yd line with the ball kicked from the 35 by the kicker. There is no other formation. Punting teams usually have 3 backs about 5 yards behind the LOS for punt protection, with the punter 12 yards deep. The remaining guys are on the LOS. Some teams choose to split the ends out to get them out of traffic and give them a better chance to sprint down field, as basically the only variation. The receiving teams can have some slight variations and a couple of different blocking schemes but they are all basically the same. The rules have done away with some of that since you can no longer run a wedge on the KO returning team. You simply have no idea what you are talking about.
Right, no member of STs ever needs any coaching, they all know what to do from birth, the ST coach is just a hall monitor making sure they get on and off the field.
Geez.
Field Goal and Try Schemes - Football Toolbox
We do not huddle on any field goal or Try attempts. The units will align in the formation, waiting for the calls by the holder. The kicker will always place his tee 7⅓ yards behind the LOS while the unit is lining up. We have a variety of schemes, however they are not all used […]
footballtoolbox.net
P.A.T. and Field Goal Part 2 - Football Toolbox
WINGS ALIGNMENT Coaching Points •Base field goal or Try alignment. •Focus, discipline and effort are keys to success. •Linemen must watch the ball, and not react to the defenses attempt to draw them offsides. Position Technique Center Take a wide base and deliver a perfect snap, at the holder...
footballtoolbox.net
Well what do you know, more than 1 formation....maybe I should have played football in college so I would realize there is only 1 formation.Field Goal and Try Schemes - Football Toolbox
We do not huddle on any field goal or Try attempts. The units will align in the formation, waiting for the calls by the holder. The kicker will always place his tee 7⅓ yards behind the LOS while the unit is lining up. We have a variety of schemes, however they are not all used […]
P.A.T. and Field Goal Part 2 - Football Toolbox
WINGS ALIGNMENT Coaching Points •Base field goal or Try alignment. •Focus, discipline and effort are keys to success. •Linemen must watch the ball, and not react to the defenses attempt to draw them offsides. Position Technique Center Take a wide base and deliver a perfect snap, at the holder...
Yep if you know football, all you do to coach special teams is roll the football out there and tell them to play ball
There is nothing in anything you posted that refutes what I said. Your post reiterates that there are 7 men on LOS, as I said, 2 wings, as I said, a holder, as I said, and a kicker, as I said. Whether they use somewhat different splits is irrelevant. It is still the same alignment. One thing is does not mention is that sometimes the holder lines up 7 yards deep and sometimes 8 or 9 yards deep depending on the distance of the kick and angle needed to get there. That is irrelevant too as it is still the same alignment. There is no rocket science involved. It is all pretty basic and has changed very little over the last 20 or 30 years.Field Goal and Try Schemes - Football Toolbox
We do not huddle on any field goal or Try attempts. The units will align in the formation, waiting for the calls by the holder. The kicker will always place his tee 7⅓ yards behind the LOS while the unit is lining up. We have a variety of schemes, however they are not all used […]
P.A.T. and Field Goal Part 2 - Football Toolbox
WINGS ALIGNMENT Coaching Points •Base field goal or Try alignment. •Focus, discipline and effort are keys to success. •Linemen must watch the ball, and not react to the defenses attempt to draw them offsides. Position Technique Center Take a wide base and deliver a perfect snap, at the holder...
No, they are the same with minor nuances. Splits etc don't change the formation just the spacing between the linemen.
You could actually say there are formations that are allowed but they are not used. For example the rules would allow there to be a kicker with no holder (as long as there are 4 players behind the LOS). The kicker could receive the ball and perform a drop kick. While that is allowable - nobody does it and it is not in anyone's playbook. I'll bet there hasn't been a drop kick in NCAA in 50 years.
I would challenge you to find one instance in the last 5 years where anyone has done anything other than the base alignment for FGs and PATs in any major college football game. Everyone uses the same alignment.
I would much rather see that argument made. I could see some merits with it, but I do get the impression that some posters would argue that STC is equal to OC or DC.
Listen besides them doing completely different things they are the same and you don’t need to coach them
That's not even a formation. It is nothing more than a gimmick. It was set up as a trick play years ago to score a 2 pt conversion instead of kicking the 1 pt PAT. Nobody falls for that BS anymore so it is a waste of time. Tell me Mr football guru, how many times have you seen this run in the past 2 or 3 years by a major college football team?????
Every single game I saw the past 3 years, every team has used the standard double wing formation. Any nut job can draw up a play or formation on paper, but that doesn't mean it's legitimate. What are all the teams doing? That is the key.
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How many field goal formations?
How many field goal blocking formations?
How many punt block formations?
How many punt return formations?
How many punt formations?
How many kick off formations?
How many kick return formations?
How many trick plays and formations?
How many formations to react to trick plays?
Even if it’s only one formation per group that’s around 9 formations to coach and perfect - probably more formations than a OC/DC put in their playbooks
That’s all for one coach to teach to players PART TIME along with all the reads, schemes and all that.
How many field goal blocking formations?
How many punt block formations?
How many punt return formations?
How many punt formations?
How many kick off formations?
How many kick return formations?
How many trick plays and formations?
How many formations to react to trick plays?
Even if it’s only one formation per group that’s around 9 formations to coach and perfect - probably more formations than a OC/DC put in their playbooks
That’s all for one coach to teach to players PART TIME along with all the reads, schemes and all that.
I never claimed it was used frequently, just that there is more than 1 formation as you claim. How many are there for punting? How about punt returns, etc.
You tried to diminish what a ST coach does and you failed miserably.
Quite the contrary. You proved you know nothing about ST. My guess is you've never played on one. I've played on every one at the collegiate level except for FG/PAT at one time or another. You quote something found on a website that some goofball posted as formations, yet you can cite no examples in recent history where any of that has been used. Here is a hint for you: if no one uses them, they are not legitimate formations. Any dingbat can draw up a formation and as long as it is within the rules it can be called a formation. You could even split the wingbacks on the FG team out wide as flankers if you want to and it would be legal. But it would be a stupid idea and nobody does it. Every team uses the same basic formation for FG/PAT and has for years. You have failed miserably in trying to refute that,
Special Teams may be 3rd on the list but it's still 1/3 of the game. To say that just anyone can coach ST's and be successful is pretty short sighted. Just because a punter or kickoff specialist can boom the ball you still need to cover it. Just because you have a speedy and athletic return man you still have to set up successful blocking schemes.
The “goofball” has 30 years of coaching experience, but sure you know more than that guy. Your original post was designed to denigrate ST coaching, and has been pointed out there are multiple formations for all aspects of STs, not just FG as you zeroed in on that. Other posts point out at least 9 different formations. Also, STs is not just your team kicking PATs, FGs and punts, but also defending them. There are different formations for that as well.
And they are basically all the same. There is no rocket science here. There is no calling plays based on down and distance. There is no decision as to whether to blitz or what blitz package to run. There are no check downs or hot reads. It's mostly just your basic stuff. The blocking and tackling techniques don't change so the ST coach isn't coaching those fundamentals. The biggest duty is coordination to be sure the right guys are on the field at the right time. The HC makes the call as to whether to kick or go for it on 4th down. He also makes the call as to whether to fake a kick or go for an on side kick.
So go ahead and read all the junk you want on the internet. I know because I have lived it. I know what goes on in the game and on the sideline. I have actually blocked a field goal in college. I also scored a safety on special teams by tackling the punter in the end zone before he could get the punt off. When I played on the KO team I made quite a few tackles inside the 20. I never had a coach to tell me how to do that. I figured out techniques to avoid blockers on my own without getting out of my lane and getting down field quickly.
ST coaches get too much blame when things go wrong and too much credit when they go right. It's all about execution, which is up to the players.
So when players drop balls and miss throws and miss tackles - thats not on the coaches? Coaches dont help players execute? Hm. Strange take there
Basically the same is not equal to ONE formation. If STs were based on figure it out on your own, there wouldnt be a need for a ST coach.
The same means most all teams run the same formations on ST. And they are pretty consistent from year to year. And, ("there wouldnt be a need for a ST coach") you are getting close to understanding the relative importance of a ST coach.
Actually they are very important, you’re just trying to disparage 1/3 of what happens in a game. It doesn’t fit your narrative.
Carolina Fans:
Our Special Teams suck. We need a new Special Teams coach who can teach returns, coverage and blocking formations.
Also Carolina Fans: Special Teams are so simple you don’t even need a coach.
Our Special Teams suck. We need a new Special Teams coach who can teach returns, coverage and blocking formations.
Also Carolina Fans: Special Teams are so simple you don’t even need a coach.
HaHaHa! 1/3 of the game? Really? You do realize most special teams plays end in fair catches and touchbacks don't you?
Also, Debo ran back 4 KOs for TDs. We hadn't had one for years before and have had none since. I guess it was all ST coaching, huh?
You have to have the players to coach. Yet one more thing Muschamp failed at. While the majority of ST plays may end in touchbacks or fair catches you have to be prepared. Most pitches in baseball don’t result in a hit but the team has to be prepared....
So Muschamp shouldnt have been fired? I mean it was the players who didnt execute not him.
There is more to kick returns than TD's, it's called field position. Why did Spurrier go out and get John Butler to coach ST's after Beamer left if it doesn't really need coaching? Everyone but you believes that it's 1/3 of the game. Yes, it's the #3 but still very important and it needs a coach that can get the most out of it. Your simplification is not realistic.
Who recruited the players? Lack of talent was one of the reasons his teams declined. Who decided the systems the players were to play in?
Ok, describe for me what happens in practice. What portion of practice is devoted to ST? Do they ever run live action with ST? Do they teach any techniques in practice? Does the ST coach (or can he) analyze the kickers' and punters' techniques and make changes?
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