Dantonio's name now scrolling on ESPN
- Thread starter PerchedOnRings
- Start date
I said in an earlier thread that he may not make it through the weekend. Definitely gone by end of week.
Every school better be checking those complaint files & making sure they were handled appropriately.
Dantonio just doesn't strike me as someone who would turn a blind eye to something like this. I just find that hard to believe.
Doesn't matter if he knew or not. The witch hunt season is on in regards to any form of sexual harassment. Dantonio is most likely out.
Let`s have a wait and see attitude. Just because he`s a coach at MSU doesn`t mean he`s done anything wrong. It`s scary to be a male these days. If you`re accused of anything sexual, you are guilty. I`m not making light of sexual harassment, assault or anything like that, I`m glad legitimate victims have more courage to speak up now. But you know there will be people out there making false accusations for money, revenge, whatever. The pendulum always swings to far in things like this. Why do people assume he knew something? Maybe, maybe not. Can we not assume people are guilty automatically?
Man, we don't know these guys. We think we do, but we don't.
We are living in a strange time. The facts at the time of the incident matter little. Because a certain segment of holier-than-thou-do-gooders with a huge microphone insist that everyone they target must be judged by the current standards only they establish and only they know. If you fall short of meeting these "standards" you must be burned at the stake...publicly. What do we know? Doesn't matter. We are simply required to acquiesce. Have a nice day - nothing to see here - now move along good citizens.
Did anyone watch the outside the lines report? One basketball player is on tape admitting that he and another raped a girl (mainly blamed it on the other). No punishment at all. Didn't even miss a game. Let me guess, Izzo is going to claim he wasn't aware? Also had a coach that punched a girl on the face and gang raped another girl. Izzo wasn't aware?
I may be way off base but this appears to be in-line with the Penn State scandal.
I may be way off base but this appears to be in-line with the Penn State scandal.
Exactly. While we should always let facts guide us, those who claim these things are witch hunts are simply looking for ways to excuse the poor behavior of men they admire. Instead of a witch hunt, I prefer to call it long overdue accountability.
If Dantonio didn't know he had 16 players accused of assault or sexual misconduct, he should have. He's the one who makes the call on who plays Saturdays, so he needs all the info. Not a single player missed a single game due to any of it. Yeah, but then again, it's just a witch hunt. Edit: he did dismiss 4 players before this season.
What's troubling is that he goes into a press conference and says "this is something we don't do," yet there's 10 years of evidence that says otherwise. He's at least as complicit as Paterno. Izzo is even worse.
What's troubling is that he goes into a press conference and says "this is something we don't do," yet there's 10 years of evidence that says otherwise. He's at least as complicit as Paterno. Izzo is even worse.
Last edited:
Just curious... by what standards is it OK to commit violence against a woman, sexually abuse a woman, gang rape two different women (one in a bathroom)?
I'll happily "do good" if that means exposing powerful people who cover up these things. Men who cover up for their players and a university that doesn't even forward rape cases (which are crimes, by the way) to law enforcement. Those are facts here.
I think you'd be singing a different tune if this was Clemson.
We are living in a strange time. The facts at the time of the incident matter little. Because a certain segment of holier-than-thou-do-gooders with a huge microphone insist that everyone they target must be judged by the current standards only they establish and only they know. If you fall short of meeting these "standards" you must be burned at the stake...publicly. What do we know? Doesn't matter. We are simply required to acquiesce. Have a nice day - nothing to see here - now move along good citizens.
Based on the facts which are known publicly at this time, which man who has been caught up in the MeToo movement do you feel has been wrongly accused and received a bad deal?
Honestly to me, all have seemed to have earned their demise through their behavior. The Garrison Keillor situation was the only thus far which has given me some pause.
MSU was taken down because of Nassar. You know darn well there are other schools with similar cover-ups. I hope that we aren't one of them.
The football/basketball is in line with Baylor. Add in the gymnastics stuff and we're in a whole different realm. If the NCAA actually cares about student athletes... um yeah.
This post is about Coach Mark Dantonio. Your response...and I am not being critical of you...is exactly the problem. You take unrelated "facts" which are mere reports of allegations....not trials...not evidence which may or may not have anything to do with Mark Dantonio and you run with that using highly charged emotional wording and either intentionally or not make the point that I am not allowed to take any position on the matter other than to agree with group-think. That process is what I am standing against. That process if it is allowed to run amok can get anyone hung in the public square at anytime for anything.
No one is suggesting Dantonio should be deprived of life or liberty. “Hung in the public square at anytime for anything” seems to be an example of the “highly charged emotional wording” which you decried only a few sentences prior.
MSU has an obligation to treat him fairly as an employee. But if they decide he acted unethically and did not report rape allegations to the police and he loses his job, that is called accountability. No one is asking for him to go to prison or to be hung in the public square. It is about his employment status only.
I'm certainly not for depriving anyone of their constitutional rights. I'd die myself to protect them for others. I get what you're saying about Dantonio and waiting to see what he knew when he knew it, but there's plenty of evidence for a university to take action against him (suspension or worse) and Izzo. When he makes comments "that it doesn't happen here" it's a slap in the face to all the women who have been abused by men under his watch.
You mentioned that "a certain segment of holier-than-thou-do-gooders with a huge microphone insist that everyone they target must be judged by the current standards only they establish and only they know." Well I'm no holier-than-thou-do-gooder (which is quite emotionally charged), but I do know that civilized societies have standards that do not allow the kinds of things that are well-documented in this case.
The callousness and tone-deafness of your "do-gooder" remarks show a disdain for the very sensitive and life-altering problems that come with violence and rape.
My point is choosing those words was because I think they accurately describe what we are seeing and in some small way being a part of right now! His reputation, his future career, his livelihood, his family relationships are all being attacked, judged and condemned...right now. The "facts" are superfluous to this process. There is no need for a trial, there is no need for an employee review based on "fairness". This "process" that I condemn is simply scroll his name, throw out the allegations, wait for the media furor to mount and then see how many and how bad the headlines and allegations are and then execute the accused. The actual...real...provable facts of who did what and who knew what, when and how and what was done by Dantonio are almost meaningless. This is because these actual facts will be mixed in with other headlines involving other coaches, administrators and even other schools and is day in the sunlight of truth will never happen. He will be convicted in the court of public opinion, and hung well before any actual facts are ever known.
I don't see the birds and I am not a witch. That possibility seems lost on some.
My point is choosing those words was because I think they accurately describe what we are seeing and in some small way being a part of right now! His reputation, his future career, his livelihood, his family relationships are all being attacked, judged and condemned...right now. The "facts" are superfluous to this process. There is no need for a trial, there is no need for an employee review based on "fairness". This "process" that I condemn is simply scroll his name, throw out the allegations, wait for the media furor to mount and then see how many and how bad the headlines and allegations are and then execute the accused. The actual...real...provable facts of who did what and who knew what, when and how and what was done by Dantonio are almost meaningless. This is because these actual facts will be mixed in with other headlines involving other coaches, administrators and even other schools and is day in the sunlight of truth will never happen. He will be convicted in the court of public opinion, and hung well before any actual facts are ever known.
I don't see the birds and I am not a witch. That possibility seems lost on some.
Who do you honestly believe this has happened to so far? Did Art Brilles unfairly have his reputation tarnished?
If MSU fires Dantonio for cause and he disagrees, he will have the opportunity to prove it in court with facts. A real trial, not a witch trial.
I'm sorry but there are plenty of actual facts already known, you have chosen not to believe them.My point is choosing those words was because I think they accurately describe what we are seeing and in some small way being a part of right now! His reputation, his future career, his livelihood, his family relationships are all being attacked, judged and condemned...right now. The "facts" are superfluous to this process. There is no need for a trial, there is no need for an employee review based on "fairness". This "process" that I condemn is simply scroll his name, throw out the allegations, wait for the media furor to mount and then see how many and how bad the headlines and allegations are and then execute the accused. The actual...real...provable facts of who did what and who knew what, when and how and what was done by Dantonio are almost meaningless. This is because these actual facts will be mixed in with other headlines involving other coaches, administrators and even other schools and is day in the sunlight of truth will never happen. He will be convicted in the court of public opinion, and hung well before any actual facts are ever known.
I don't see the birds and I am not a witch. That possibility seems lost on some.
That's weird. I didn't see anyone ask for him to be executed or even fired. Not immediately or otherwise. A "witch hunt" assumes that there is actually "nothing to see here" and that the accusations are false - after all, witches aren't real.
If that's not your intent, then perhaps something less "emotionally charged" would suit your argument better. Something like, "I'll withhold judgement until we get all the facts."
There is a certain bandwagon effect here, though. The MeToo movement is strong right now, due in part to large coverups and a fear of speaking out against powerful people; many women are feeling like they have a voice for the first time. The gymnastics issue at MSU is a good micro-study of why women (and girls) stay silent for so long.
Thank you for proving the point I was trying to make. "Art Briles" different man, different school, similar accusations we think...but aren't really sure yet so let's burn him at the stake just to be sure. Again, after he is fired...reputation destroyed, career over... hey, then he can then argue the facts and his defense.
Again, what’s all this “burning at a stake”? Who has called for anything of the sort? It’s such emotionally charged language.
Fear not my friend. MSU administrators will decide his fate - not you, not me and not ESPN. If they don’t use facts, they do so at their own peril.
And finally, I ask you again...who do you feel has been unfairly treated in this whole reckoning regarding sexual harassment/assault so far?
No one HAS to ask...that is the insidious horror of this modern day "process". All anyone has to do is make the accusation and let this "process" play out. The negative press will outweigh the positive life time of service and he will be gone. Check into the Salem Witch Trials...there was a whole lot of crazy stuff going on and the witch thing was merely a cover-up for the all too human failings behind it. Saying "withhold judgment" is a weak way of saying which hole will I bury my head in till it's over. Unless good people join together to demand a better process this insane process will continue.
I don't know the facts of each case and certainly don't have any dog in any particular fight but your question makes my point on the process. Sexual harassment and sexual assault are not the same things. Sexual harassment is not a crime. It is ugly, boorish behavior and if someone did that to my wife or daughter or even a friend I would kick his ass and it would be done. Sexual assault is a crime. Yet, in this modern day "process" it is all thrown together under the same headline and the crowd with the biggest microphone wins and whoever the accused is finished. This is the process we must all see for what it is. I hope you all see my point...the process is the enemy.
I don't believe for 1 second that Dantonio did not do exactly what he said. This finger pointing and assuming someone is guilty because of every accusation is very much wrong. Women if someone touches you or mistreats you report it the first time. Don't go back and get seconds same for anyone else. Folks we are eating our on. We are doing exactly what Russia said we would do. Destroying ourselves from within Think about it we turn against our brothers at the drop of a hat. Give things a little thought before drawing conclusions.
Who claimed that sexual harassment and assault are the same things? Absolutely no one ever.
And sticking to Dantonio, if you read the media accounts, what he is accused of covering up is assault.
To me, this “process” is working. Can it go astray and ensnare innocent people? Yes, but that is not some modern day phenomenon. There have been unjustly accused since the beginning of any type of justice system on earth.
The “process” works like this:
- the Nassar thing happened. Horrible.
- the media is doing its job and talking to people around MSU, speaking to accusers, checking public records, etc. and then reporting on it.
- now it’s in the public sphere. We are discussing it.
- MSU administrators and likely their Board will need to sort it all out, hopefully using facts and reason.
Just because public reporting of things about men who are respected makes people uncomfortable, it doesn’t mean it is not a good thing. The alternative is these things stay secret, in the shadows where they are never addressed.
I prefer sunshine, not shadows.
Uh yea, nice try but read closer. We are having a national reckoning on both sexual harassment and assault. Using the two words in the same sentence does not equate the two activities. You’re reaching.
Well I think an average reader here would clearly see you did in fact equate the two. But, in your defense you are simply a victim of the modern witch trial group-think mentality. The two things are clearly not the same yet they are being treated as the same and used almost interchangeably in the media to such a degree people are confused, overwhelmed and more likely to say to hell with all of it just get rid of everybody. Which I think is all part of this "process" you seem to be willing to defend.
You just used the words process and defend in the same sentence. Using your logic, this must mean you too defend the process. Two words in same sentence = equating, for average readers.
All of the MSU stuff may be absolutely legitimate but this whole #metoo movement is about the bigger picture. It is going to effect all female/male relations. All it takes is accusations and a mans life is ruined guilty or not. This is another way to pit certain groups against each other. Certain politicians benefit from all of this and everything is political now. Sports are just about ruined. Dating is now going to be extremely complicated. This is now an issue to be pushed in elections. I hope the guilty get punished but the false accusers need to be punished as well. Duke lacrosse etc.
Which process? The process of a free press reporting incidents that occurred? The process of a free press exposing cover ups? The 1st Amendment is alive and well in this case - and others involving cover ups of misbehavior at best assault at worst.
If you want to get paid the big bucks and be in the public spotlight, be prepared to deal with the consequences when bad things happen under your watch. His reputation has been tarnished for sure. He took action against players only this year, despite allegations going back to 2007. Izzo hasn't taken any action. He even promoted a well-known offender.
In terms of "positive lifetime of service"... Nassar for sure had some positive effect for some athletes. After all, several of his athletes won gold medals. Should that outweigh what he did? Or did it simply prevent his victims from speaking out?
Maybe the concept of chaperones had merit. Heck, if I was still single, I might lawyer up for a date.
