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Deshaun Watson or Pat Mahomes?

bdblack

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Mar 29, 2002
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Remember draft night 2017 when a very angry Watson declared that the two teams who drafted a QB before him would certainly live to regret it? I would guess the Bears probably do after four seasons with Trubisky. As for the Chiefs with Mahomes future potential...... elementary, my dear Watson, elementary!
 
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Mahomes hands down . He’s a once in a generation player . Deshaun is a HELL of a player . Probably need to throw Josh Allen In that conversation as well . All I know is Deshaun has the Texans by the Cajones right now . I don’t think he plays another down for the Texans . He’s holding all the cards
 
How much does Mahomes benefit from the players around him?

Dude is obviously extremely talented. Just wondering what others opinions may be
 
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How much does Mahomes benefit from the players around him?

Dude is obviously extremely talented. Just wondering what others opinions may be

Very true . Kelce is the best TE in football and Tyreek is a top 5 WR . Basically both those guys are uncoverable one on one . Kelce is the toughest matchup in the NFL . Mahomes still makes throws that I’ve never seen another QB make . However it does help when you have a guy like Tyreek that is basically impossible to overthrow . Gotta give Deshaun his props however . He had a career year without Hopkins and without Will Fuller most of the season . The kid is a beast .
 
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I'd put it this way. Watson is good, Mahomes is great. You put Mahomes in Houston, and they are a better team. You put Watson in KC, they are a worse team.

Where would you rate Josh Allen compared to Deshaun right now ?? Allen is putting up pretty similar #’s . Amazing how many good young QB’s in the AFC . Mahomes , Watson , Allen , Lamar , Herbert , Burrow .
 
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Where would you rate Josh Allen compared to Deshaun right now ?? Allen is putting up pretty similar #’s . Amazing how many good young QB’s in the AFC . Mahomes , Watson , Allen , Lamar , Herbert , Burrow .

I'd want Allen to have another year like this one before putting him ahead of Watson. As much as I'm anti-tater, I wish the Cowboys had a shot at getting Watson.

I hadn't really thought about it, but the AFC does seem to have a definite advantage re: future quarterback play.
 
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Mahomes, and it’s not even close. Watson had the best LT in football this year, didn’t finish in the top 10 in QBR and single handedly lost at least 2 games. Hopkins has made him look great for most of his career. (Notice how suddenly Arizona was in playoff contention this year?) Great passing stats, horrible if you want to actually win. Mahomes would have taken Houston to the playoffs this year, he would elevate them to the pre-Watson years...which still weren’t great. Yes, I’m a Texans fan, yes I’m bitter that we agreed to pay $40 mil/year to a QB who has proven he can’t win in the nfl.
 
Mahomes, and it’s not even close. Watson had the best LT in football this year, didn’t finish in the top 10 in QBR and single handedly lost at least 2 games. Hopkins has made him look great for most of his career. (Notice how suddenly Arizona was in playoff contention this year?) Great passing stats, horrible if you want to actually win. Mahomes would have taken Houston to the playoffs this year, he would elevate them to the pre-Watson years...which still weren’t great. Yes, I’m a Texans fan, yes I’m bitter that we agreed to pay $40 mil/year to a QB who has proven he can’t win in the nfl.
I think you may be the only one that has this full opinion. Mahomes is the best QB in the league no doubt. However, the Texans have been a disaster. Over the course of his career they have not been able to consistently protect him, lack of a running game, injuries, they trade away the best receiver in football. Inconsistent on defense. And most of all, a crapshoot of management. You say he single handedly lost 2 games for the Texans, well how many did he single handedly keep them in? Also, do not under appreciate the value of the play makers around Mahomes and Andy Reid and the offensive play calling. I would venture to say if you put Watson on the Chiefs, there would be very little drop off. They would still be the Super Bowl favorites.
 
Solid response. I respectfully disagree that the Chiefs are still the favorites or even a super bowl team with Watson instead of Mahomes. I think Hopkins was more important to the Texans than Watson is. (In fairness, I think Hopkins is the best WR in the league.)
 
I think you may be the only one that has this full opinion. Mahomes is the best QB in the league no doubt. However, the Texans have been a disaster. Over the course of his career they have not been able to consistently protect him, lack of a running game, injuries, they trade away the best receiver in football. Inconsistent on defense. And most of all, a crapshoot of management. You say he single handedly lost 2 games for the Texans, well how many did he single handedly keep them in? Also, do not under appreciate the value of the play makers around Mahomes and Andy Reid and the offensive play calling. I would venture to say if you put Watson on the Chiefs, there would be very little drop off. They would still be the Super Bowl favorites.

Lot of words. Lot of excuses.
 
I have maintained and will continue to do so that coaching- not Trubisky- is the problem in Chicago. They’ve tried to turn him into a pocket QB and that’s not what he is. He plays his best when he’s allowed to make plays outside the pocket.

that being said, Watson is a damn good QB. He certainly doesn’t understand the Brady approach- that if you take all the cap space, they can’t afford to keep your favorite weapons around. Brady spent his whole career taking less so they would keep his preferred weapons, and he’s got 9 Superbowl appearances to show for it. Watson wanted all the money thus, no more Nuke.
 
Deshaun wanted a huge multi-year contract and he got it. Now he thinks that he can control his team's destiny a la Magic Johnson in 1981. He doesn't get to decide where to go if the Texans refuse to trade him. What an egotistical dumb-butt.
 
Josh Allen has better arm talent than both but Maholmes is better for now. When his legs slow Allen will pass him.
Josh Allen is a fine player, but I do not ever see him passing Mahomes (baring injuries of course, that is the wild card in this game) It is not his play making ability with his legs that makes Mahomes so great- a lot of it is his ability to create when plays break down- avoiding pressure, throwing accurately on the run, no look passes, he can change his arm angle to avoid defenders and still deliver the ball downfield where it needs to be... He is a magician! Josh Allen is a little bigger guy and might be able to throw a LITTLE harder/farther, but I would argue Mahomes is more accurate even on deep balls. JMHO

in fact, Josh Allen as recent as last year was ranked among the least accurate passers in the NFL:

He may have a “big” arm and I am sure his accuracy numbers improved this year dramatically, but accuracy is more important than ball speed generally speaking...
 
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Josh Allen is a fine player, but I do not ever see him passing Mahomes (baring injuries of course, that is the wild card in this game) It is not his play making ability with his legs that makes Mahomes so great- a lot of it is his ability to create when plays break down- avoiding pressure, throwing accurately on the run, no look passes, he can change his arm angle to avoid defenders and still deliver the ball downfield where it needs to be... He is a magician! Josh Allen is a little bigger guy and might be able to throw a LITTLE harder/farther, but I would argue Mahomes is more accurate even on deep balls. JMHO

in fact, Josh Allen as recent as last year was ranked among the least accurate passers in the NFL:

He may have a “big” arm and I am sure his accuracy numbers improved this year dramatically, but accuracy is more important than ball speed generally speaking...
Last year you are correct about but the leaps he made from last year to now shows the potential this kid has. Right now Maholmes is the better all around QB but if Allen had his weapons he would put up as good or better numbers. Maholmes is a gunslinger with great receivers kinda like Farve when he was younger with less arm strength. I think Allen is the better passer and next year his numbers will reflect just that
 
Lot of words. Lot of excuses.
Unfortunately everything I said was a fact. Not an excuse, just the truth. Let me translate in to college terms..... For USC.... Steve Spurrier screwed us when he said he may be around for a couple more years. Or when he quit on us in the middle of the season... Both are facts, both are excuses.......... For Clemson..... Man if we did not turn it over 6 times at South Carolina in 2013 we were the better team and win... If Andre Ellington did not fumble on the goal line to go up against WV in the Orange Bowl, we do not lose by a million...Both are facts, both are excuses......... YOU CAN LOOK AT EVERYTHING I SAID IN MY POST. ALL IS BACKED UP BY FACTS AND STATS. NOT SURE HOW THAT's AN EXCUSE. JUST THE TRUTH. To think you could look at what the Texans have done and think they have not totally missed the boat and are a dumpster fire means you do not know much about football. Plain and simple.
 
Unfortunately everything I said was a fact. Not an excuse, just the truth. Let me translate in to college terms..... For USC.... Steve Spurrier screwed us when he said he may be around for a couple more years. Or when he quit on us in the middle of the season... Both are facts, both are excuses.......... For Clemson..... Man if we did not turn it over 6 times at South Carolina in 2013 we were the better team and win... If Andre Ellington did not fumble on the goal line to go up against WV in the Orange Bowl, we do not lose by a million...Both are facts, both are excuses......... YOU CAN LOOK AT EVERYTHING I SAID IN MY POST. ALL IS BACKED UP BY FACTS AND STATS. NOT SURE HOW THAT's AN EXCUSE. JUST THE TRUTH. To think you could look at what the Texans have done and think they have not totally missed the boat and are a dumpster fire means you do not know much about football. Plain and simple.
To keep it real “Spurrier screwed us” and “we were the better team and win” are opinions not facts. You seem pretty logical, but to claim that both of those statements are facts is completely false.
 
To keep it real “Spurrier screwed us” and “we were the better team and win” are opinions not facts. You seem pretty logical, but to claim that both of those statements are facts is completely false.
Logical sometimes I guess haha
 
I’m not gonna necessarily say Josh Allen is better than Mahomes. But it’s a fact that Allen never had a good Receiver until this year, and you see what a difference that one guy has made. For all Mahomes’ greatness, you’d be blind if you didn’t admit that he’s in a dream situation for a QB...he’s got 3 of the fastest players in the league as his Receivers, he’s got the best TE in the league, and he’s got a burner at RB. The toughest part of his job is keeping plays alive long enough for somebody to pop open. He may be accurate, but there are A LOT of plays when Hill and Hardman have 5+ yard leads on their defenders. I assure you Allen and a lot of other QBs would be accurate under those conditions too.
 
Mahomes is not a traditional passer. He just gets the ball there under the most intense pressure. Like Aaron Rodgers.....Mahomes makes it all look easy. I absolutely believe it’s the eye test of the upper elite QBs that tells the story. Watson isn’t quite in that class.
 
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Where would you rate Josh Allen compared to Deshaun right now ?? Allen is putting up pretty similar #’s . Amazing how many good young QB’s in the AFC . Mahomes , Watson , Allen , Lamar , Herbert , Burrow .

Way too soon to call. Josh Allen is having his first great year - maybe ever. This year is an anomaly as it relates to his passing accuracy.

At Wyoming he completed 56% and 56.3% of his passes, and in his first two years at Buffalo he completed 52.8% and 58.8%. This year he's up to 69.2% completion percentage! And the rest of the numbers follow (yards and TD's).

Up until this year he was always been talked up because of potential. Perhaps he's finally living up to it and will challenge as one of the best for years to come. Or maybe this was a blip and he goes back down to what he's always been (a good QB but not a great one). He's fun to watch. And if he can keep this up his battles with Mahomes would be Manning v. Brady-esque.
 
The last half of this season, Mahomes actually didn't play that well. His QBR was down at least. He also plays for one of the best coaches of all time. I want to see him still wowing people 4-5yrs from now. There's been several QB's over the last 20yrs that come onto the scene and everyone thinks they will be the greatest. Then they fade away around year 3 or 4.
 
The last half of this season, Mahomes actually didn't play that well. His QBR was down at least. He also plays for one of the best coaches of all time. I want to see him still wowing people 4-5yrs from now. There's been several QB's over the last 20yrs that come onto the scene and everyone thinks they will be the greatest. Then they fade away around year 3 or 4.

Curious for examples. I guess you'd put Cam Newton in that class? League MVP to dud in just a couple of years. Who else?
 
Curious for examples. I guess you'd put Cam Newton in that class? League MVP to dud in just a couple of years. Who else?

I think you can . However I think Cam’s issues were way more injury related . He just got beat to death . If you look at his first 6 games in Norv Turners first year as OC Cam was having a better year than his MVP campaign. In the 7th game TJ Watt basically destroyed his shoulder . Instead of getting healthy Cam played thru it and I think he was never the same afterwards . Not a big Cam fan but Carolina basically used him like a Fullback for 9 years and when he broke down they threw him away . I think he needs to retire .
 
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I would be interested to get peoples take on Lamar. To me to jury is still out. Obviously he is elite in his rushing and scrambling skills but I do not see Baltimore winning a championship with him unless his throwing skills, reading defenses, etc. improves.
 
I would be interested to get peoples take on Lamar. To me to jury is still out. Obviously he is elite in his rushing and scrambling skills but I do not see Baltimore winning a championship with him unless his throwing skills, reading defenses, etc. improves.

agree. Too much like Vick...he can wow you with his speed. But when a well balanced team like a Buffalo or KC comes along that can at least keep him from running wild, he can’t beat you with his arm. I see them as being like Vick’s Atlanta teams...always a threat, but never good enough to get over the hump. Now if they assembled an old school Ravens style defense to compliment his offensive skills, maybe a different story
 
This is a strange thread. Of course Watson is going to say something like that, as do most high profile players when asked about where they're drafted.

Mahomes is the best QB in the league, period. Watson is in the group immediately behind him and could easily be a top 3 QB in the league for the next 10 years. He's on that kind of trajectory now, and that's with a total dumpster fire of an organization/coaching so far. I would say he was no worse than the third best QB this year behind Mahomes and Rodgers.

There's really no way to quantify the advantage Mahomes has right now with Andy Reid leading the offense and the cast of supporting characters like Kelce/Hill/Hardman/Watkins/Robinson/CEH. He's a hell of a player but also in the perfect situation for a young QB, even getting to sit for a year behind Alex Smith. He might go down as the best QB of all time when it's said and done as crazy as that is to say about a young QB.

If this thread is meant as an insult to Watson, sorry but I don't see it that way. The kid is a monster just like he was in college.
 
The last half of this season, Mahomes actually didn't play that well. His QBR was down at least. He also plays for one of the best coaches of all time. I want to see him still wowing people 4-5yrs from now. There's been several QB's over the last 20yrs that come onto the scene and everyone thinks they will be the greatest. Then they fade away around year 3 or 4.
If we’re talking QBR, then Watson shouldn’t even be in the conversation after finishing 12th this year.
 
Click bait for house taters and they didn’t disappoint. . I saw someone ask about Lamar and that’s prob a better comparison for Watson. The two are very similar.
 
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