Do I really have to watch this again?????

Discussion in 'Fighting Gamecocks Forum' started by ansoncock, Jul 13, 2019 at 4:23 PM.

  1. ansoncock

    ansoncock Active Member
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    P. J. Hall is listed as the number 1 player in the State of South Carolina. His Dorman team (Spartanburg) beat my Berkeley Stags in the State 5A basketball finals in a close game. He has a teamate, Myles Tate who is also a Division 1 caliber elite player.

    A recruiting website, as of 7/12/19 lists P J as 100% Florida!

    I fully support the player to go where ever he/she believes they will be happiest and have the best education/athletic career opportunities. But if you are from SC, why would you not want to play ball in SC and possibly achieve legend status if you are an elite player? Think how much that could help in career and after graduation opportunities.

    Mr. AD are you awake? Do you not see all the elite in state talent that is leaving? Top two NBA picks, Josiah James etc.? We should be getting one of these elite in state players at least every other year. If a player does not choose USC, does anyone bother to find out why? Or do we just continue to blame it on the mythical AAU advisers, chicken curse, Blue superiority etc.

    Many problems are fixable, if they are recognized and dealt with promptly. Mr. AD, you were a heck of a baseball coach, but please wake up and deal with this problem!
     
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  2. jeff2001

    jeff2001 Well-Known Member
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    He simply doesnt like Columbia. Is what I heard.
     
  3. garnetman

    garnetman Member
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    He has a sister at Florida playing volleyball. I'm sure that was a big factor.
     
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  4. Spurrierisking

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    I teach in Spartanburg 6 (Dorman). PJ’s sister is one of the top volleyball players in the country and went to Florida to play a few years ago. I’m sure that is a major factor for him
     
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  5. ansoncock

    ansoncock Active Member
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    It is his decision to make. I wish him a great academic career, an a great athletic career except when he is playing us!
     
  6. VirgilCaine

    VirgilCaine Well-Known Member
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    Well, I guess I’m not as “big” of person as you guys, I’m with the OP. We can’t keep missing on top rated guys in our backyard......it ridiculous
     
  7. SOSUSC

    SOSUSC Well-Known Member
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    That is a factor - his sister played at Florida. But isn’t it our job to recruit him here? What is going on?
     
    7 SOSUSC, Jul 13, 2019 at 10:38 PM
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2019 at 11:16 PM
  8. ansoncock

    ansoncock Active Member
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    Gamecock fans can always figure out a reason why a good in state player didn't enroll at USC. On this aspect of basketball recruiting, we are 100 per cent successful!
     
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  9. DeepfriedCock

    DeepfriedCock Member
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    Most elite athletes don't want to live in Columbia.
     
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  10. Legendary Cock

    Legendary Cock Active Member
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    There's nothing mythical about this part. I agree with everything else though.
     
  11. cockhornleghorn

    cockhornleghorn Well-Known Member
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    Buth they want to live in Lawrence, Kansas or Durham, NC or East Lansing, Mi?
     
  12. sclawman77

    sclawman77 Well-Known Member
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    Not getting the top recruit in SC in basketball is a surprise to you? Where have you been the last 30+ years? I could give you a long list...Stanley Roberts, Ray Allen, Garnett (pro), O'Neal (pro), etc. Hate to inform you but we aren't competing for titles and are putting hardly anyone in the pros. Not exactly a great combination.
     
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  13. ansoncock

    ansoncock Active Member
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    But they are just itchin' to move to Mississippi to go to school?
     
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  14. ansoncock

    ansoncock Active Member
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    What you are telling me is no surprise. I had forgotten about Stanley Roberts and his coach who got nice gigs at LSU. Maybe we don't put many in the pros because the talent level is not quite on par with the schools that do that. It isn't.

    I am not taking anything away from the players whom Coach FM has recruited. They are awesomely talented and he can help them all improve.

    Change just doesn't happen. We must analyze the situation and determine what we must do to make it better. Or we can enjoy the fact that we are maintaining the moral high ground and continue as we are.
     
  15. ansoncock

    ansoncock Active Member
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    Then someone needs to win over some of the AAU advisers and get them on our side.
     
  16. gfluvsthecocks

    gfluvsthecocks Active Member
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    Whether you mean to or not, you're repeating negative recruiting talking points from other coaches that are designed to keep people away from South Carolina. Yes, Columbia is hot, but so is most of the country in July and August. The benefit is that it's not near as cold in January and February. If you're going to get ready for a season, training in heat prepares you to handle it on the field or court.

    Truth is you can say negatives about any college town or city across the country. For instance, no one likes stepping in Cow patties, swimming in a muddy lake, or having to drive 40 minutes to go to a decent restaurant, but these "elite" athletes keep signing with Clemson in Football. It's about the athletes perceived ability to win.

    We are going to have a really good basketball this year. I'm not guaranteeing that we are going to find our magic in March and roll to the National Championship, but we will be a team that no one wants to play (if we stay healthy). Unfortunately, it will take us proving that we can win and make the tournament consistently before elite local players change their perception. Unfortunately, it may be too late for this crop of rising high school seniors.

    When it comes to pulling top National Recruits, keep in mind that 10 years ago, George Mason went to the Final Four. It was a feel good story, but in our minds it didn't make them a National Powerhouse worthy of elite recruits. If they had followed it up with another one, then perhaps. If they had a kid in their backyard that hadn't committed, it probably gave them a better shot at keeping him home, but that is all they probably got from that one run alone.

    Butler made two straight National Championship games. They're still not Duke or UNC or probably even Florida in most players minds. Winning Championships changes the discussion with Elite prospects. Being close doesn't get it done.
     
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  17. Crutcher1

    Crutcher1 Active Member
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    Why is this the AD's fault. It has been going on for 40+ years. Ray has been AD, what, 6years? If recruiting is his fault, than the most successful years in Men's and Women's basketball are due to his leadership.
     
  18. midline

    midline Well-Known Member
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    Some of it is simply tradition. Neither of the in state schools have much of an attention getting history in basketball. USC had a three week hot streak, that nobody saw coming, to get them to a final four. Clemson had one, or two, years where they got to the elite eight, long ago. Kids see that. Duke, UNC, Kentucky, Kansas.....those schools places in the eyes of the basketball world is unquestioned. Even a place like Florida. Won two national titles in the not so distant past. Would a kid rather play on a team that gets the prime time ESPN time slot, or is he happy that he is getting that magical 6:30 time slot on SEC Network. Kids want eyes on them, and at present USC just doesn't attract the attention.
    Then we turn to the AAU angle. Had been a long standing tradition on this board (and not unlike every other college message board I read) to read that every recruiting failure is because all the other schools are paying everyone in sight yet we are the lighthouse for integrity and that we should be proud that we have the only program that puts character over wins. OK. If that is true, then you have what you have. Fill up the arena and chant "we don't cheat" the whole game. These kids see how much money is made off of their talents and they want their cut. Coaches and administrators making millions as they are supposed to be satisfied by some tip money called a stipend for being the actors on the stage. Football and basketball are nothing more than big business. Winning in either is even bigger business. Either you choose to play the game, or you don't.
     
  19. Legendary Cock

    Legendary Cock Active Member
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    Whatever it takes.
     
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  20. Conway Gamecock

    Conway Gamecock Well-Known Member
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    Need to recruit 3*-low 4* talent, put together a solid team of overachievers, and then teach them to play competitive, winning basketball.

    By winning basketball, I mean 18-20-game winning basketball, consistently. Most often, that will get you the NIT with an occasional NCAAT, and the occasional season where we miss out of post-season play. Our program has gone so long without any consistently winning MBB, that our fanbase isn't even intelligent enough these days to understand just how bad our program is. They cry about not getting the 5* talent, and not going to the NCAAT every year, like we're Duke, UNC, and Kentucky.

    The best we can do, is have 1-2 years of decent success, followed with 3-5 years of mediocrity. At least, that's been the entire history of our program minus about 10 yrs under McGuire. Many times, that 3-5 years of mediocrity has turned into 8-10 years. That Final Four wasn't ever going to be good enough to make our program into a consistent winner, as a stand-alone.

    It WAS, however, good enough that with a little recruiting luck, it could help the staff build off of it and get another 3-4 more years of 18-20-game win seasons out of it. If we could've done that, then we'd have a couple more NITs and perhaps another NCAAT appearance to go along with the NIT and NCAAT FF we already had. If we had gotten the program to that level, then maybe - just maybe Coach Martin and staff would have something with meat on it to work with.

    But all those player dismissals and transfers just before the Final Four kinda screwed things up. Instead of focusing on building on the success, the staff had to spend energy on recovering lost ground, and filling empty spots with warm bodies, whether they fit the program or not. We've just only now started coming out of that reboot heading into this coming season. But the momentum that Final Four gave us, is pretty much gone now.

    But we can get it started up again, with a 18-20 win season this season. Maybe a NIT appearance, or an NCAAT spot, if we're lucky.....
     
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  21. _NOVA_

    _NOVA_ Active Member
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    The program “tradition” stuff is mostly nonsense. It’s mostly a non factor. It’s the coach. It’s the facilities once they get a player to see the campus. Florida is a great example. They were a basketball wasteland for about 50 years. Hire Lon Kruger, who addresses some of their structural issues. Then hire Billy Donovan, one of the great college coaches and recruiters off all time. Took Billy two years to get oriented, and then he put fantastic teams on the court year after year... at Florida.. a program people thought was virtually worthless.

    Hire the right coach.
     
  22. Judson1

    Judson1 Well-Known Member
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    Dawn doesn’t have a problem. Did she win first then recruit or was it her name that drew the athletes so she could win right away? I honestly don’t remember.
    What’s odd is most schools do not have successful women’s AND men’s teams.
     
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  23. SCexpat38

    SCexpat38 Active Member
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    Easier done in hindsight. Coaches who are successful at one place do not necessarily win at their next stop.

    I don't get the 'we have to get all the in-state talent' crowd and if we don't it's FM's fault and he needs to be cut loosse.

    Some kids probably grew up not giving a rat's rear end about USC, particularly now that about half the state is transplanted.

    If I were a college caliber athlete in any sport and was offered by Clemson I'd go out of state.
     
  24. Goose cock

    Goose cock Member
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    Martin is a terrible recruiter so that doesn’t help.
     
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  25. ansoncock

    ansoncock Active Member
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    "Need to recruit 3*-low 4* talent, put together a solid team of overachievers, and then teach them to play competitive, winning basketball."

    We have just the coach who can do that.

    I just wish some one would start drawing out Xes and Oes on the recruitment process and make sure we are competitive there, too. #65, #65 and #45 ranked classes just don't cut it.

    We are the #17 ranked school in terms of resources, and should recruit accordingly.
     
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  26. Judson1

    Judson1 Well-Known Member
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    The Nike peach jam is on ESPN right now. Played every year in North Augusta. Our program needs to think outside the box to be more visible at this tournament.
     
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  27. SOSUSC

    SOSUSC Well-Known Member
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    You are exactly right. It is all about the coach. First, the coach does more with less. That is when the AD steps in and locks the coach down. Second, the coach starts attracting better players if he/she is a great recruiter. The AD locks the coach down even more with an incentive-laden contract and a stiff buyout. Third, the coach with the better talent positions the program among the national elite. Examples, Staley, Donavan, Saban, ...
     
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  28. 67gamecock

    67gamecock Well-Known Member
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    Well, then, I understand his preference for UF since every teenage boy in the world wants to go to college with his big sister and *Gainesville is a great (not) town for a young man to spend his early years.

    *I kinda like it (but I like large college towns), however my company is one of the biggest non-public employers in Gainesville and every transfer we sent down there were not happy.
     
  29. Cocky4SC

    Cocky4SC Active Member
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    That's not true at all. I know the family personally. He likes Frank and the school. As many have said his sister plays VB at Florida. They are a very close family. I personally don't think we are out of it by any means at this point...
     
  30. DeepfriedCock

    DeepfriedCock Member
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    Look at recruiting, elite athletes are not coming here.
     
    30 DeepfriedCock, Jul 14, 2019 at 8:53 PM
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2019 at 9:58 AM
  31. DeepfriedCock

    DeepfriedCock Member
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    Even Dawn has trouble keeping kids here in Columbia. Look at the players she's had transfer out.
     
  32. 01fatboy

    01fatboy Active Member
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    when have we ever not missed? yall act like this is a martin thing
     
  33. ansoncock

    ansoncock Active Member
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    We didn't miss with P J Dozier. He is an elite player.

    Likewise, we didn't miss with Sindarious Thornwell. We got him by default when our superior blue neighbors were already filled with blue chip talent.

    Please let me know who I am leaving out.

    I don't think Coach FM should go any where, only he needs more recruiting help.
     

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