Do you still haggle on car prices?

[GarnetBeamer]

In the midst of shopping for a minivan. Car shopping is one my least favorite ventures b/c I just don't trust anyone and feel like everyone is out to rip me off (what a way to go through life, huh?).

Haggling used to be the norm and was expected. Cars were priced with the expectation that folks would haggle. But dealers have all sorts of programs now to pretty much try cutting you off from haggling. They'll claim to have surveyed the local market and generated the best possible price so, guess what...they've done all the hard work so you don't NEED to worry about haggling! How nice of them.

The main problem I find in my area (Northern VA, DC area) is that it's extremely high volume. Cars sell FAST. What I've found is that dealers just don't even bother haggling b/c they know they don't have to. It's not a matter of whether or not they're going to sell the car you're looking at. If you don't buy it, they know someone else probably will tomorrow. Last time we bought a car a few years ago, we found exactly what we wanted and it was priced very well, a bit below KBB. It was priced at like $22,100. I tried to haggle a bit but could tell it was a non-starter. I finally asked the guy "can you knock $100 off for my pride and make it an even $22,000?" Nope. I ended up buying it anyway b/c it was what we were looking for and it was competitively priced.

I do think cars are much more competitively priced now b/c they have to be. Consumers have far more resources at their disposal when looking at car prices than they did 20 or 30 years ago. No more tromping around from dealer to dealer to look at prices. In about 30 seconds you can have the prices for all vehicles matching what you want within a 100 mile radius. You don't have take the dealer's word anymore on KBB or NADA black book values.

 

[ELCID89]

I believe haggling is going away. One way to handle it, if you know what you want, is to email 3 or 4 dealers and ask for the best out the door price. I was successful with that a few years back. I recently bought a used truck and had the same experience as you. The dealer had a no haggle price on line. They are not supposed to come off of that, but I went in and offered a lower price. They came back with just a little concession. I walked out and they let me. I couldn't believe they did nothing to try to get me back. But they knew that truck was going to sell quickly anyway. The dealer has all of the same resources that the buyer does and if they know what they are doing, they can price competitively out of the gate. This dealer had done that. So at this point, if you find a vehicle that is priced competively, you are not going to get much in haggling, but always offer lower and walk out. I went back a couple of days later and bought the truck at the price the dealer offered to counter my first offer. I got it for $600 less than their no-haggle price. Main thing is always work from an out the door price. I don't care what fees, etc. they want to charge since I am working an out the door price.

 

[Bubbaglide]

Used cars are bringing high prices right now i got over kbb trade on mine and paid invoice on theirs. They wanted my car. Popular car Lowe miles great shape. They called to me during my cars service and said they wanted it. Told them deal my way or i will be driving it home. Bottom line is i am driving a new car

 

[muscleknight]

Make an offer on the car you want. It never hurts to ask.

 

[spardue]

Check out cargurus.com
I agree, do your research and have what you’ll pay in mind minus any trade. If you can be patient, you’ll get the deal you want.

 

[ghostofpepsicock]

Use the threat of the George Costanza walk-out. It works every time 👍🏻

 

[hahnenkampf]

Nope; I buy all my cars from Carmax. Their prices have always been excellent. Haven’t bought a new car in 32 years and never will again.

 

[GarnetBeamer]

My wife and I lived in Asia for a few years and traveled in China, Thailand, Philippines, etc. I loved all the haggling in their markets. The rule of thumb was to never pay more than 10% of what they were asking. Of course, the haggling is expected and was just part of the cultural experience. It was fun. For some reason, I just feel more awkward about haggling here. I still try, but I'm not nearly as confident as I was when haggling over the price of knick knacks in a Chinese market.

 

[importcock]

Like Spardue, I'd suggest the online services, (Carguru, Autotrader, Cars.com etc.). ( Cargurus actually shows on their listings whether the price is average, good, great or overpriced). You're still gonna be buying from either a dealer or an individua,l but you can view a lot of cars in a short amount of time. Also, you can look further out from your area. Some free advice for what it's worth: (for used cars), If I were you I'd search a range of 200-300 or more from where you are and try to find something from down south. It's probably gonna get rusty being where you live but it would be much better to start out with a solid, rust free vehicle. And you can probably do some things to mitigate the rust that happens after you get it. On the other hand, if you want to buy cheap, anywhere in the rust belt you can buy the same car for probably 25-40% less. I've actually bought 2 cars from Florida on Ebay that I saved big on and both turned out fine. But, I'm a car guy, (lifelong auto tech, former shop owner and now auto tech teacher). I don't necessarily recommend Ebay unless you're knowledgeable enough to stay safe. Another thought: Carvana. I honestly haven't really even looked at their site but from the commercials it looks super easy, (don't know about pricing). They bring you your car on a rollback and pick up your trade in if applicable. And one final caveat; always look at the Carfax or AutoCheck report. Look for accident/salvage history, title problems and look at every state it been titled in and for how long. If you see a car that's spent some time in the rust belt, move on. Sorry for being wordy. Just trying to help.

 

[Dizzy01]

Nope; I buy all my cars from Carmax. Their prices have always been excellent. Haven’t bought a new car in 32 years and never will again.

Agreed. We are on our second one and the process is so easy. We shopped around and found that their prices were better on vehicles we were after even factoring in shipping got one of the vehicles. Being able to do everything beforehand also is a huge advantage as we have been able to test drive, complete paperwork and be on the road in less than an hour.

 

[uscg1984]

Since I will never haggle myself into a higher price, yes, I will always haggle. The worst thing that can happen is I have to pay what the seller wants for the vehicle.

 

[yemacock]

In the midst of shopping for a minivan. Car shopping is one my least favorite ventures b/c I just don't trust anyone and feel like everyone is out to rip me off (what a way to go through life, huh?).

Haggling used to be the norm and was expected. Cars were priced with the expectation that folks would haggle. But dealers have all sorts of programs now to pretty much try cutting you off from haggling. They'll claim to have surveyed the local market and generated the best possible price so, guess what...they've done all the hard work so you don't NEED to worry about haggling! How nice of them.

The main problem I find in my area (Northern VA, DC area) is that it's extremely high volume. Cars sell FAST. What I've found is that dealers just don't even bother haggling b/c they know they don't have to. It's not a matter of whether or not they're going to sell the car you're looking at. If you don't buy it, they know someone else probably will tomorrow. Last time we bought a car a few years ago, we found exactly what we wanted and it was priced very well, a bit below KBB. It was priced at like $22,100. I tried to haggle a bit but could tell it was a non-starter. I finally asked the guy "can you knock $100 off for my pride and make it an even $22,000?" Nope. I ended up buying it anyway b/c it was what we were looking for and it was competitively priced.

I do think cars are much more competitively priced now b/c they have to be. Consumers have far more resources at their disposal when looking at car prices than they did 20 or 30 years ago. No more tromping around from dealer to dealer to look at prices. In about 30 seconds you can have the prices for all vehicles matching what you want within a 100 mile radius. You don't have take the dealer's word anymore on KBB or NADA black book values.

Go to CarGurus.com. That's how I found my last car and got a great deal. It is hard to get the dealer to come off of that price listed. Beware of all the add-ons that aren't shown on the posted price.

 

[Gamecock80SC]

I don’t have the answer to that questioners been a minute since I purchased from a dealer. I bought my Wrangler like 10 years ago, it’s paid for, and I’m going to drive it until the wheels fall off. I bought it new from the dealer on Greystone. we haggled a little bit and they came off like a few grand. Not much- but I got it for around the same cost as other dealers were trying to sell their pre-used ones on lot. (See story below)

A day or or two prior I went to Carmax- when I read somewhere on the wall that all prices are final- I turned around and walked out.
I then saw a used Wrangler at the Nissan dealer off Ferandina rd. The sales guy kept going to his manager and coming back with $5 knocked off the regular price, then went back again making me wait another 15 minutes to tell me his manager approved $10 knocked off the price instead of 5. This Jeep was priced very close to what I could get one for brand new with more options. The sales guy went back to ask the manager for permission to knock any more off, but the sales manager had gone to lunch. I ended up walking out and left then my number to call me. Lol. I literally drove to the Chrysler dealer right after that and bought a brand new Wrangler. They came off a few grand- something fair for both buyer and seller.

I want to update- but I have put off buying a new car since. Jeep are sort of a timeless design anyway and as long as you keep up basic repairs and all they are g2g. I even took it tailgating several times

 

[bigsirspur]

One problem is people who refuse to take a good deal. Dealers know what will sell, and everyone has access to the invoice price, holdback, etc. If you want a popular model and try to start haggling with no justification (e.g. match the other dealership price), why should they move? Some people just have to try to "get a deal" or "beat a dealer down." But if you have no leverage, you look like an idiot. The other reason they will cut the price is if you buy something, like and extended warranty, where the commission is greater than the margin on the price reduction you are seeking. Dealers look at the whole picture in terms of revenue they are getting from you. Also, they make money on the loans if you are financing. So if you walk in with a suitcase of cash and another customer wants to finance and buy all the BS protection packages, the dealer is not going to negotiate with you. It would rather you leave and sell to the other guy this afternoon or tomorrow, even if the "purchase price" is lower for them.

 

[TheReelEss]

I believe haggling is going away. One way to handle it, if you know what you want, is to email 3 or 4 dealers and ask for the best out the door price. I was successful with that a few years back. I recently bought a used truck and had the same experience as you. The dealer had a no haggle price on line. They are not supposed to come off of that, but I went in and offered a lower price. They came back with just a little concession. I walked out and they let me. I couldn't believe they did nothing to try to get me back. But they knew that truck was going to sell quickly anyway. The dealer has all of the same resources that the buyer does and if they know what they are doing, they can price competitively out of the gate. This dealer had done that. So at this point, if you find a vehicle that is priced competively, you are not going to get much in haggling, but always offer lower and walk out. I went back a couple of days later and bought the truck at the price the dealer offered to counter my first offer. I got it for $600 less than their no-haggle price. Main thing is always work from an out the door price. I don't care what fees, etc. they want to charge since I am working an out the door price.

I was dealing with the Rock Hill Chevy dealer when I was looking for my current truck. I found a new one on cars.com in Lowell, NC that was about $10K less than they wanted for theirs. I asked the RH dealer if this price was real. He said he'd check. He actually got it transferred to RH for the same price. It pays to shop.

 

[The Ironed Sheet]

Shop around at small dealerships in neighboring small towns. They're more desperate to make a sale than a high volume/big city dealership. They're also usually more concerned with establishing relationships (for future sales) and will be more flexible on their price. This strategy has worked for me over the years. Depending on what you're looking for, some manufacturers (Toyota) can still get cars directly from the factory or distribution center, so you don't even have to buy something they have on the lot. I have also always gotten more for my trade vs. the high volume dealers. Plus, the admin/doc fees in the small town are significantly less.

 

[GarnetBeamer]

One problem is people who refuse to take a good deal. Dealers know what will sell, and everyone has access to the invoice price, holdback, etc. If you want a popular model and try to start haggling with no justification (e.g. match the other dealership price), why should they move? Some people just have to try to "get a deal" or "beat a dealer down." But if you have no leverage, you look like an idiot. The other reason they will cut the price is if you buy something, like and extended warranty, where the commission is greater than the margin on the price reduction you are seeking. Dealers look at the whole picture in terms of revenue they are getting from you. Also, they make money on the loans if you are financing. So if you walk in with a suitcase of cash and another customer wants to finance and buy all the BS protection packages, the dealer is not going to negotiate with you. It would rather you leave and sell to the other guy this afternoon or tomorrow, even if the "purchase price" is lower for them.

This is true. I guess I'm somewhat stuck in the past and feel like it makes me less of a man if I don't get money knocked off the asking price haha.

 

[Freddie.B.Cocky]

Nope; I buy all my cars from Carmax. Their prices have always been excellent. Haven’t bought a new car in 32 years and never will again.

I'm just the opposite I haven't bought a used vehicle in 46 years with the exception of an old pick up truck I bought to do projects around the house. Because I always have problems with used vehicle and I did with the pick up truck I bought used. I would buy a used vehicle in a second if I knew it was reliable.

 

[robertfootball]

No one hates car shopping more than I do! I used to have a great salesman I bought several trucks from and never had to haggle or play games, he was straight up every time. Sadly he retired and I’ve been on the hunt for a decent salesman ever since. What’s even harder is finding a dealership that doesn’t have those stupid addendum stickers charging you insane prices for stuff like “special air in the tires-$699”. I’ve been driving my 2018 since that’s the last truck I bought from my favorite salesman before he retired and I’ll probably just go to CarMax and buy used next time.

 

[Flameout12]

One way to handle it, if you know what you want, is to email 3 or 4 dealers and ask for the best out the door price.

Bam! Do it the easy way. I did this my last 2 car buys.

 

[Heyward1]

You should haggle with the idea of a mini van. That is your biggest problem.

 

[The Ironed Sheet]

The best minivan ever made?

2022 Kia Carnival is a reminder that minivans are actually very cool

Kia's swanky Sedona replacement has a bunch of tech and a ton of space, and it looks downright luxurious, too.

www.cnet.com

 

[cocks rule]

I'm just the opposite I haven't bought a used vehicle in 46 years with the exception of an old pick up truck I bought to do projects around the house. Because I always have problems with used vehicle and I did with the pick up truck I bought used. I would buy a used vehicle in a second if I knew it was reliable.

I’ve bought nothing but used Toyota’s for the last 30 years. I’ve probably spent 20k total in those 30 years and usually get close to what I paid when I’ve sold them. I’ve never understood why anyone would take that New car depreciation but that’s just me. I’ve got 2 4runners and a 95 Toyota pickup now, all of which will last 20 more years without breaking a sweat. Like the old commercial says. Oh what a feeling, Toyota!

 

[gr8spur]

I always haggle. Family and friends have sought my help because of my haggling reputation. I've been thrown out of one dealership. But I've always paid less than what the business manager says is there rock bottom. Have saved people thousands. But I must admit, I'm getting a little old to enjoy the song and dance. And I do feel bad for the salesmen I get. And with dealer volume bonuses and so forth, the invoice doesn't really tell the whole story. And I'll tell where I am seeing the profit hidden these days. It's in the inflated destination charges, dealer prep and paper handling fees. I'd like to see the day when I can skip the dealer and order straight from the factory.

 

[king ward]

I've had a good many new vehicles in my life, and a couple were luxury vehicles. Right now, I consider new car prices to be obscene. Yes, I'm aware of all the safety and electronic features in vehicles now. The elevated pricing necessitates these creative financing plans that go up to seven years to get people into the vehicles. Now, ceilings on sales tax have been raised in many places and lifted in others. Insurance and property taxes can be steep. The market for decent used trucks rivals the new vehicle market. All I'm saying is that I'm not seeing a buyer's market other than with respect to interest rates for people with good credit.

The best minivan ever made?

2022 Kia Carnival is a reminder that minivans are actually very cool

Kia's swanky Sedona replacement has a bunch of tech and a ton of space, and it looks downright luxurious, too.

www.cnet.com

I drive an Odyssey that we bought new, my second one. It now has some age on it and I'll need to make a change in the foreseeable future. I like the look of the redesigned Sienna.

 

[pisgah]

I send my wife out to buy us a car, and she can haggle with the best of 'em.

 

[robertfootball]

I always haggle. Family and friends have sought my help because of my haggling reputation. I've been thrown out of one dealership. But I've always paid less than what the business manager says is there rock bottom. Have saved people thousands. But I must admit, I'm getting a little old to enjoy the song and dance. And I do feel bad for the salesmen I get. And with dealer volume bonuses and so forth, the invoice doesn't really tell the whole story. And I'll tell where I am seeing the profit hidden these days. It's in the inflated destination charges, dealer prep and paper handling fees. I'd like to see the day when I can skip the dealer and order straight from the factory.

Yep! It’s also in those addendum stickers that are becoming more common. And it’s the devil to get that extra $1500-2500 in pure profit taken off. Between those, the dealer fees, etc, they eat up all of your discount and rebates easily. Remember in SC tax is $500 on new cars, so by the time you celebrate that $3000 rebate, the $500 state tax, $699 “processing fees” and $1500 addendum stickers have all but killed your discount.

 

[importcock]

I’ve bought nothing but used Toyota’s for the last 30 years. I’ve probably spent 20k total in those 30 years and usually get close to what I paid when I’ve sold them. I’ve never understood why anyone would take that New car depreciation but that’s just me. I’ve got 2 4runners and a 95 Toyota pickup now, all of which will last 20 more years without breaking a sweat. Like the old commercial says. Oh what a feeling, Toyota!

You and I are a lot alike when it comes to our vehicles. I have a Camry, a 4Runner, and a Tundra, and my wife has a Rav4. You might find find a vehicle with better features or looks or something but there's nothing more reliable. I don't want anything but a Toyota.

 

[hahnenkampf]

I’ve bought nothing but used Toyota’s for the last 30 years. I’ve probably spent 20k total in those 30 years and usually get close to what I paid when I’ve sold them. I’ve never understood why anyone would take that New car depreciation but that’s just me. I’ve got 2 4runners and a 95 Toyota pickup now, all of which will last 20 more years without breaking a sweat. Like the old commercial says. Oh what a feeling, Toyota!

Same here with Honda — I’ve bought five of them over the years from Carmax dealerships in Atlanta, Charleston, Columbia, and Greenville. All had about 50,000 miles when I bought them. All now have over 400,000 miles on them.

 

[cocks rule]

You and I are a lot alike when it comes to our vehicles. I have a Camry, a 4Runner, and a Tundra, and my wife has a Rav4. You might find find a vehicle with better features or looks or something but there's nothing more reliable. I don't want anything but a Toyota.

 

[cocks rule]

You and I are a lot alike when it comes to our vehicles. I have a Camry, a 4Runner, and a Tundra, and my wife has a Rav4. You might find find a vehicle with better features or looks or something but there's nothing more reliable. I don't want anything but a Toyota.

I can’t imagine what features any other vehicle could have that Toyota’s don’t have and as you said nothing can match the pure reliability of Toyota. I did put Pioneer Bluetooth head units in both Four Runner’s. That was the only feature they didn’t have that I wanted and those units are much better than what comes in the 2021’s. Used Toyota’s are definitely the best bang for your buck hands down.

 

[importcock]

I can’t imagine what features any other vehicle could have that Toyota’s don’t have and as you said nothing can match the pure reliability of Toyota. I did put Pioneer Bluetooth head units in both Four Runner’s. That was the only feature they didn’t have that I wanted and those units are much better than what comes in the 2021’s. Used Toyota’s are definitely the best bang for your buck hands down.

Just from what I've read, some say Toyota has been a little slow on technology, like WIFI and such.... stuff that I don't really care about anyway. And for an example, the 2021 4Runner has the same basic engine as a 2003, just been tweaked a little over the years to gain HP. For some that's a drawback. I say if it ain't broke don't fix it. The 4.0 engine in the 4Runner is nearly bulletproof. I've heard of plenty with over 400k miles on them and even a couple with over 600K. And there are at least two documented examples of the first gen Tundras with the 4.7 with over a million miles on them. Like we both said, nothing is more reliable.

 

[ghostofpepsicock]

My son’s 2007 Tacoma has 305k on it and still runs rock solid.

 

[ruffledfeathers]

Dealers are now using fees and add-ons to make profit, versus any profit via sales price.

 

[ruffledfeathers]

Just looked at Toyota recalls. This is 2020 recalls only. Looks like they have an expanding fuel pump issue. Apparently not as reliable as believed, at least recently. All makes have recalls, Toyota in particular this past year.

VOLUNTARY RECALLS
Toyota is Conducting a Noncompliance Recall Involving Certain Toyota Vehicles

November 25, 2020

VOLUNTARY RECALLS
Toyota is conducting a safety recall involving certain Toyota and Lexus vehicles

October 28, 2020

VOLUNTARY RECALLS
Toyota is conducting a safety recall involving certain 2020 model year Toyota Highlander and Highlander Hybrid vehicles

October 14, 2020

VOLUNTARY RECALLS
Toyota is conducting a noncompliance recall involving certain Tundra vehicles

July 15, 2020

VOLUNTARY RECALLS
Toyota is conducting a safety recall involving certain Prius and Prius v vehicles

June 24, 2020

VOLUNTARY RECALLS
Toyota is conducting a safety recall involving certain RAV4 vehicles

May 20, 2020

VOLUNTARY RECALLS
Toyota is conducting a safety recall involving certain Toyota vehicles

April 08, 2020

VOLUNTARY RECALLS
Toyota is conducting a safety recall involving certain Toyota vehicles

March 19, 2020

VOLUNTARY RECALLS
Toyota is conducting a safety recall involving certain Toyota and Lexus vehicles

VOLUNTARY RECALLS
Toyota is conducting a safety recall involving certain Toyota and Lexus vehicles

February 06, 2020

VOLUNTARY RECALLS
Toyota is conducting a safety recall involving certain Toyota vehicles

VOLUNTARY RECALLS
Toyota is conducting a safety recall involving certain Toyota Corolla, Matrix and Avalon vehicles

January 21, 2020

VOLUNTARY RECALLS
Toyota is conducting a safety recall involving certain Toyota and Lexus vehicles

PLANO, Texas (October 28, 2020) – Toyota is recalling certain Lexus and Toyota vehicles produced between July 2017 through December 2019 due to the same fuel pump issue for which Toyota announced a safety recall in the U.S. in January 2020.

In the U.S., Toyota is adding approximately 1.53* million newly identified vehicles to the safety recall originally announced in January 2020. The total number of vehicles involved in this safety recall is now approximately 3.34* million vehicles. The models and model years that have vehicles included in this recall are certain:

2013-2015 Model Year Lexus LS 460;
2013-2015 Model Year Lexus GS 350;
2014 Model Year Toyota FJ Cruiser, Lexus ISF;
2014-2015 Model Year Toyota 4Runner, Land Cruiser; Lexus GX 460, IS 350, LX 570;
2015 Model Year Lexus NX 200t, RC 350;
2017 Model Year Lexus IS 200t, RC 200t GS 200t;
2017-2019 Model Year Toyota Highlander; Lexus GS 350;
2017-2020 Model Year Toyota Sienna and Lexus RX 350
2017-2020 Model Year Toyota Tacoma*
2018-2019 Model Year Toyota 4Runner, Land Cruiser; Lexus GS 300, GX 460, IS 300, IS 350, LS 500h, LX 570, NX 300, RC 300, RC 350;
2018-2020 Toyota Avalon, Camry, Corolla, Sequoia*, Tundra*; Lexus ES 350, LC 500, LC 500h, LS 500, RX 350L
2019 Model Year Toyota Corolla Hatchback and Lexus UX 200
2019-2020 Model Year Toyota RAV4
The subject vehicles are equipped with a fuel pump which may stop operating. If this were to occur, warning lights and messages may be displayed on the instrument panel, and the engine may run rough. This can result in a vehicle stall, and the vehicle may be unable to be restarted. If a vehicle stall occurs while driving at higher speeds, this could increase the risk of a crash.

For all involved vehicles, Toyota and Lexus dealers will replace the involved fuel pump with an improved one at no cost to customers.

Owners of vehicles included in the recall in October*, that were not included in the recall population as of April 9, 2020, will be notified by late December.

Information about automotive recalls, including but not limited to the list of involved vehicles, is current as of today’s filing date and is subject to change thereafter. To see if your vehicle is involved in a safety recall visit Toyota.com/recall or nhtsa.gov/recalls and enter your Vehicle Identification Number (VIN) or license plate information.

For any additional questions, customer support is also available by calling the Toyota Brand Engagement Center (1-800-331-4331) for Toyota vehicles and Lexus Brand Engagement Center (1-800-255-3987) for Lexus vehicles.

*This statement was updated on November 2 (to correct the production date range of the vehicles being added to the recall on October 28, 2020) and December 18 (to include approximately 8,000 Toyota Sequoia, Tacoma and Tundra vehicles added to this recall on December 18, 2020). Owners of the vehicles added in December 2020 will be notified by January 29, 2021.

 

[CockofEarle]

In the midst of shopping for a minivan. Car shopping is one my least favorite ventures b/c I just don't trust anyone and feel like everyone is out to rip me off (what a way to go through life, huh?).

Haggling used to be the norm and was expected. Cars were priced with the expectation that folks would haggle. But dealers have all sorts of programs now to pretty much try cutting you off from haggling. They'll claim to have surveyed the local market and generated the best possible price so, guess what...they've done all the hard work so you don't NEED to worry about haggling! How nice of them.

The main problem I find in my area (Northern VA, DC area) is that it's extremely high volume. Cars sell FAST. What I've found is that dealers just don't even bother haggling b/c they know they don't have to. It's not a matter of whether or not they're going to sell the car you're looking at. If you don't buy it, they know someone else probably will tomorrow. Last time we bought a car a few years ago, we found exactly what we wanted and it was priced very well, a bit below KBB. It was priced at like $22,100. I tried to haggle a bit but could tell it was a non-starter. I finally asked the guy "can you knock $100 off for my pride and make it an even $22,000?" Nope. I ended up buying it anyway b/c it was what we were looking for and it was competitively priced.

I do think cars are much more competitively priced now b/c they have to be. Consumers have far more resources at their disposal when looking at car prices than they did 20 or 30 years ago. No more tromping around from dealer to dealer to look at prices. In about 30 seconds you can have the prices for all vehicles matching what you want within a 100 mile radius. You don't have take the dealer's word anymore on KBB or NADA black book values.

And let me add, “it’s better to look good than to feel good”. And you’ll look good driving a minivan

 

[cocks rule]

Just from what I've read, some say Toyota has been a little slow on technology, like WIFI and such.... stuff that I don't really care about anyway. And for an example, the 2021 4Runner has the same basic engine as a 2003, just been tweaked a little over the years to gain HP. For some that's a drawback. I say if it ain't broke don't fix it. The 4.0 engine in the 4Runner is nearly bulletproof. I've heard of plenty with over 400k miles on them and even a couple with over 600K. And there are at least two documented examples of the first gen Tundras with the 4.7 with over a million miles on them. Like we both said, nothing is more reliable.

When Toyota builds a engine it’s always overbuilt for extreme reliability and stays around for decades. You can go back to the 22r that evolved to the 22re when fuel injection became the norm. Bulletproof engines still running strong 40 years later. The 4.0 is a 500,000 mile engine as is the 4.7. 4runners are also among the safest vehicles on the market. I have heard a disappointing rumor that the new Supra was going to use a bmw engine. First mistake Toyota’s made in a very long time. Hopefully that’ll change soon.

 

[gamecockfan04]

I'm currently looking for a used Civic or Corolla for my son and you better believe I'm going to haggle!
BTW if any of you have a car to sell I may be interested...

 

[cocks rule]

Just looked at Toyota recalls. This is 2020 recalls only. Looks like they have an expanding fuel pump issue. Apparently not as reliable as believed, at least recently. All makes have recalls, Toyota in particular this past year.

VOLUNTARY RECALLS
Toyota is Conducting a Noncompliance Recall Involving Certain Toyota Vehicles

November 25, 2020

VOLUNTARY RECALLS
Toyota is conducting a safety recall involving certain Toyota and Lexus vehicles

October 28, 2020

VOLUNTARY RECALLS
Toyota is conducting a safety recall involving certain 2020 model year Toyota Highlander and Highlander Hybrid vehicles

October 14, 2020

VOLUNTARY RECALLS
Toyota is conducting a noncompliance recall involving certain Tundra vehicles

July 15, 2020

VOLUNTARY RECALLS
Toyota is conducting a safety recall involving certain Prius and Prius v vehicles

June 24, 2020

VOLUNTARY RECALLS
Toyota is conducting a safety recall involving certain RAV4 vehicles

May 20, 2020

VOLUNTARY RECALLS
Toyota is conducting a safety recall involving certain Toyota vehicles

April 08, 2020

VOLUNTARY RECALLS
Toyota is conducting a safety recall involving certain Toyota vehicles

March 19, 2020

VOLUNTARY RECALLS
Toyota is conducting a safety recall involving certain Toyota and Lexus vehicles

VOLUNTARY RECALLS
Toyota is conducting a safety recall involving certain Toyota and Lexus vehicles

February 06, 2020

VOLUNTARY RECALLS
Toyota is conducting a safety recall involving certain Toyota vehicles

VOLUNTARY RECALLS
Toyota is conducting a safety recall involving certain Toyota Corolla, Matrix and Avalon vehicles

January 21, 2020

VOLUNTARY RECALLS
Toyota is conducting a safety recall involving certain Toyota and Lexus vehicles

PLANO, Texas (October 28, 2020) – Toyota is recalling certain Lexus and Toyota vehicles produced between July 2017 through December 2019 due to the same fuel pump issue for which Toyota announced a safety recall in the U.S. in January 2020.

In the U.S., Toyota is adding approximately 1.53* million newly identified vehicles to the safety recall originally announced in January 2020. The total number of vehicles involved in this safety recall is now approximately 3.34* million vehicles. The models and model years that have vehicles included in this recall are certain:

2013-2015 Model Year Lexus LS 460;
2013-2015 Model Year Lexus GS 350;
2014 Model Year Toyota FJ Cruiser, Lexus ISF;
2014-2015 Model Year Toyota 4Runner, Land Cruiser; Lexus GX 460, IS 350, LX 570;
2015 Model Year Lexus NX 200t, RC 350;
2017 Model Year Lexus IS 200t, RC 200t GS 200t;
2017-2019 Model Year Toyota Highlander; Lexus GS 350;
2017-2020 Model Year Toyota Sienna and Lexus RX 350
2017-2020 Model Year Toyota Tacoma*
2018-2019 Model Year Toyota 4Runner, Land Cruiser; Lexus GS 300, GX 460, IS 300, IS 350, LS 500h, LX 570, NX 300, RC 300, RC 350;
2018-2020 Toyota Avalon, Camry, Corolla, Sequoia*, Tundra*; Lexus ES 350, LC 500, LC 500h, LS 500, RX 350L
2019 Model Year Toyota Corolla Hatchback and Lexus UX 200
2019-2020 Model Year Toyota RAV4
The subject vehicles are equipped with a fuel pump which may stop operating. If this were to occur, warning lights and messages may be displayed on the instrument panel, and the engine may run rough. This can result in a vehicle stall, and the vehicle may be unable to be restarted. If a vehicle stall occurs while driving at higher speeds, this could increase the risk of a crash.

For all involved vehicles, Toyota and Lexus dealers will replace the involved fuel pump with an improved one at no cost to customers.

Owners of vehicles included in the recall in October*, that were not included in the recall population as of April 9, 2020, will be notified by late December.

Information about automotive recalls, including but not limited to the list of involved vehicles, is current as of today’s filing date and is subject to change thereafter. To see if your vehicle is involved in a safety recall visit Toyota.com/recall or nhtsa.gov/recalls and enter your Vehicle Identification Number (VIN) or license plate information.

For any additional questions, customer support is also available by calling the Toyota Brand Engagement Center (1-800-331-4331) for Toyota vehicles and Lexus Brand Engagement Center (1-800-255-3987) for Lexus vehicles.

*This statement was updated on November 2 (to correct the production date range of the vehicles being added to the recall on October 28, 2020) and December 18 (to include approximately 8,000 Toyota Sequoia, Tacoma and Tundra vehicles added to this recall on December 18, 2020). Owners of the vehicles added in December 2020 will be notified by January 29, 2021.

I won’t get a 2020 until 2035 at least. I always buy used and haven’t ever paid over 10k for any vehicle. Apparently Toyota does an amazing job of perfecting any defects voluntarily on all their vehicles. That’s another reason to buy used! You have real world data to pick the best years on any particular vehicle. It’s a no brainer. Toyota seeks perfection and all your data just proves the point. Thanks for all the info on Toyota’s drive for perfection. They are truly amazing.

 

[Neanderthal]

I’m with pisgah. My wife can haggle with the best.