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Do you still haggle on car prices?

Yep, full MSRP now. No incentives. Salesmen can't make any bank right now with the inventory this low. I also noticed the absence of the obnoxious radio ads that normally pollute classic rock stations. This is not only bad for dealers and mfrs, but the entire supplier industry suffers as well.
Some high demand vehicles are even having +$10,000 or +$20,000 over MSRP.
 
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Yep, we put our car search totally on hold. Though we are only buying used, the whole market is just bonkers now. I can't imagine any buying unless absolutely necessary. We've just decided to gut it out with what we have. It was tough, but I found a 3-across car seat format that just barely works in our vehicles.
 
I got a call last week from the dealer I bought my 2019 GMC Canyon from (V6, crew cab). Paid 25.2K out the door, they offered me 30k on a trade with 39k miles on the vehicle. Problem is, you're just moving money from one hand to the other, I really wouldn't come out ahead if I bought another new one.

Similar to real estate right now. Yes, I can get a premium for my house, but buying/building I'm going to pay a premium. Literally moving money from one hand to the other.

I wouldn't buy a car or a house right now unless I had no other choice.
 
Drove by a Toyota dealership here the other day. Lot was maybe 1/2-2/3 full of cars. It's typically been completely filled with cars also on the sides and grass. I thought maybe they'd shut down and were moving inventory out b/c it was so sparse. Tough market out there right now.
 
Here's what I have done to get the best price. First I select a bunch of dealers within around 200 miles max from where I live. I chose 9 dealers for my last Toyota. Then I go to each dealer's website and write the following: I plan to purchase a certain color Toyota xxx vehicle with this color interior by the end of xx month. I live in South Carolina in this county and will be transferring an existing license plate and will pay cash. (If you don't have the case, make preliminary arrangements with a bank ahead of time.) What is your best out the door price? On each dealer's website you will fill out all information which will include your cell number and email address. Then you sit back and wait for emails and phone calls. I have used this method for the last 2 cars that I have bought and have gotten very good reduced prices. DO NOT GO TO THE DEALER AND HAGGLE. Make the dealers come to you on email or cell phone. Not necessary and they have you at their place where you can see the new cars and smell the new cars and you know the rest. The dealers want you to come in so you will be on their turf.

By the way, I prefer a Toyota because of their quality and they hold their value about as good as any car and there are Toyota dealerships everywhere. The market is very bad now because of low inventories due to shortage of micro chips. The micro chip manufacturers are well behind in production. If you can wait, I would recommend waiting. We are in a sellers market, not a buyers market. I understand that used vehicles are at a premium too.
 
Here's what I have done to get the best price. First I select a bunch of dealers within around 200 miles max from where I live. I chose 9 dealers for my last Toyota. Then I go to each dealer's website and write the following: I plan to purchase a certain color Toyota xxx vehicle with this color interior by the end of xx month. I live in South Carolina in this county and will be transferring an existing license plate and will pay cash. (If you don't have the case, make preliminary arrangements with a bank ahead of time.) What is your best out the door price? On each dealer's website you will fill out all information which will include your cell number and email address. Then you sit back and wait for emails and phone calls. I have used this method for the last 2 cars that I have bought and have gotten very good reduced prices. DO NOT GO TO THE DEALER AND HAGGLE. Make the dealers come to you on email or cell phone. Not necessary and they have you at their place where you can see the new cars and smell the new cars and you know the rest. The dealers want you to come in so you will be on their turf.

By the way, I prefer a Toyota because of their quality and they hold their value about as good as any car and there are Toyota dealerships everywhere. The market is very bad now because of low inventories due to shortage of micro chips. The micro chip manufacturers are well behind in production. If you can wait, I would recommend waiting. We are in a sellers market, not a buyers market. I understand that used vehicles are at a premium too.

I have known some people who have had good luck with your approach as well. It's never really worked for me though...wish it did! I just get canned replies or they just give the price that's shown online and I have to beg and plead to get an out-the-door price. I've had them quote me an out-the-door price and then I email back to confirm there are no other fees etc. They reply with "the only other fee would be...." And I'm like "what part of out-the-door" did you not understand?

But, yeah, we have put our search on hold as you suggested. We can limp by with what we have until the end of the year. The Carmax CEO said he anticipates the market starting to return to normal by the end of this year or early next. Nobody's getting a deal right now...even if it might seem like it. It's the worst car market for buyers in 2 decades or more.

I've known a couple people who recently bought houses and they weren't in a situation where they had to buy. My nephew was one and he was insistent he found a good deal, but the numbers don't lie. It might look like a good deal compared to comps in the area, but nothing's a good deal for buyer's right now compared to what you would have paid 18 months ago.
 
Just looked at Toyota recalls. This is 2020 recalls only. Looks like they have an expanding fuel pump issue. Apparently not as reliable as believed, at least recently. All makes have recalls, Toyota in particular this past year.

VOLUNTARY RECALLS
Toyota is Conducting a Noncompliance Recall Involving Certain Toyota Vehicles

November 25, 2020

VOLUNTARY RECALLS
Toyota is conducting a safety recall involving certain Toyota and Lexus vehicles

October 28, 2020

VOLUNTARY RECALLS
Toyota is conducting a safety recall involving certain 2020 model year Toyota Highlander and Highlander Hybrid vehicles

October 14, 2020

VOLUNTARY RECALLS
Toyota is conducting a noncompliance recall involving certain Tundra vehicles

July 15, 2020

VOLUNTARY RECALLS
Toyota is conducting a safety recall involving certain Prius and Prius v vehicles

June 24, 2020

VOLUNTARY RECALLS
Toyota is conducting a safety recall involving certain RAV4 vehicles

May 20, 2020

VOLUNTARY RECALLS
Toyota is conducting a safety recall involving certain Toyota vehicles

April 08, 2020

VOLUNTARY RECALLS
Toyota is conducting a safety recall involving certain Toyota vehicles

March 19, 2020

VOLUNTARY RECALLS
Toyota is conducting a safety recall involving certain Toyota and Lexus vehicles

VOLUNTARY RECALLS
Toyota is conducting a safety recall involving certain Toyota and Lexus vehicles

February 06, 2020

VOLUNTARY RECALLS
Toyota is conducting a safety recall involving certain Toyota vehicles

VOLUNTARY RECALLS
Toyota is conducting a safety recall involving certain Toyota Corolla, Matrix and Avalon vehicles

January 21, 2020

VOLUNTARY RECALLS
Toyota is conducting a safety recall involving certain Toyota and Lexus vehicles

PLANO, Texas (October 28, 2020) – Toyota is recalling certain Lexus and Toyota vehicles produced between July 2017 through December 2019 due to the same fuel pump issue for which Toyota announced a safety recall in the U.S. in January 2020.

In the U.S., Toyota is adding approximately 1.53* million newly identified vehicles to the safety recall originally announced in January 2020. The total number of vehicles involved in this safety recall is now approximately 3.34* million vehicles. The models and model years that have vehicles included in this recall are certain:

2013-2015 Model Year Lexus LS 460;
2013-2015 Model Year Lexus GS 350;
2014 Model Year Toyota FJ Cruiser, Lexus ISF;
2014-2015 Model Year Toyota 4Runner, Land Cruiser; Lexus GX 460, IS 350, LX 570;
2015 Model Year Lexus NX 200t, RC 350;
2017 Model Year Lexus IS 200t, RC 200t GS 200t;
2017-2019 Model Year Toyota Highlander; Lexus GS 350;
2017-2020 Model Year Toyota Sienna and Lexus RX 350
2017-2020 Model Year Toyota Tacoma*
2018-2019 Model Year Toyota 4Runner, Land Cruiser; Lexus GS 300, GX 460, IS 300, IS 350, LS 500h, LX 570, NX 300, RC 300, RC 350;
2018-2020 Toyota Avalon, Camry, Corolla, Sequoia*, Tundra*; Lexus ES 350, LC 500, LC 500h, LS 500, RX 350L
2019 Model Year Toyota Corolla Hatchback and Lexus UX 200
2019-2020 Model Year Toyota RAV4
The subject vehicles are equipped with a fuel pump which may stop operating. If this were to occur, warning lights and messages may be displayed on the instrument panel, and the engine may run rough. This can result in a vehicle stall, and the vehicle may be unable to be restarted. If a vehicle stall occurs while driving at higher speeds, this could increase the risk of a crash.

For all involved vehicles, Toyota and Lexus dealers will replace the involved fuel pump with an improved one at no cost to customers.

Owners of vehicles included in the recall in October*, that were not included in the recall population as of April 9, 2020, will be notified by late December.

Information about automotive recalls, including but not limited to the list of involved vehicles, is current as of today’s filing date and is subject to change thereafter. To see if your vehicle is involved in a safety recall visit Toyota.com/recall or nhtsa.gov/recalls and enter your Vehicle Identification Number (VIN) or license plate information.

For any additional questions, customer support is also available by calling the Toyota Brand Engagement Center (1-800-331-4331) for Toyota vehicles and Lexus Brand Engagement Center (1-800-255-3987) for Lexus vehicles.

*This statement was updated on November 2 (to correct the production date range of the vehicles being added to the recall on October 28, 2020) and December 18 (to include approximately 8,000 Toyota Sequoia, Tacoma and Tundra vehicles added to this recall on December 18, 2020). Owners of the vehicles added in December 2020 will be notified by January 29, 2021.
I bought a 2019 Toyota RAV4 hybrid and first thought I had a fuel tank issue. I did an experiment to find out exactly what was going on, so I put a container of one gallon of gas in the rear of the vehicle with a funnel etc. For the last several gas tank fillips, I have gone beyond where it says that you are now on empty and your range is 0 miles. I have progressively driven well beyond empty and the last tank I went over 2 gallons of gas beyond empty which was based on miles per gallon. Some Toyota RAV4s have a problem with the gas tank not being able to be filled and Toyota will fix that. I've owned a Honda CRV and it also would allow you to go well beyond the 0 mile limit. If you are willing to carry a one gallon of gas in a container in your car you can experiment to see about how far you can go (based on your MPG) beyond the 0 mile notice. I know, I'm a geek, but I wanted to know the answer. So, now I do know that I can drive well past the 2 gallon beyond empty.
 
I have known some people who have had good luck with your approach as well. It's never really worked for me though...wish it did! I just get canned replies or they just give the price that's shown online and I have to beg and plead to get an out-the-door price. I've had them quote me an out-the-door price and then I email back to confirm there are no other fees etc. They reply with "the only other fee would be...." And I'm like "what part of out-the-door" did you not understand?

But, yeah, we have put our search on hold as you suggested. We can limp by with what we have until the end of the year. The Carmax CEO said he anticipates the market starting to return to normal by the end of this year or early next. Nobody's getting a deal right now...even if it might seem like it. It's the worst car market for buyers in 2 decades or more.

I've known a couple people who recently bought houses and they weren't in a situation where they had to buy. My nephew was one and he was insistent he found a good deal, but the numbers don't lie. It might look like a good deal compared to comps in the area, but nothing's a good deal for buyer's right now compared to what you would have paid 18 months ago.
That’s not happening. There is still going to be a chip shortage by then. Ford is so far behind they will still be producing 2021 then to meet orders. I know someone who ordered an f150 in January and still has not received it. Also dealers make more of financing the vehicle than they do a cash price. I use to sell cars and my clients that are willing to finance with my dealership got the best deals in the end.
 
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If you're in a position to haggle, go for it, but do your research on what things are worth and be confident in it. If you know it's a good deal, jump on it, don't haggle.

Just last week, I bought a 1977 CJ-5 (unplanned purchase) that a guy was haggling over $200 (private sale, wasn't advertised anywhere). When I heard the vehicle was for sale, I did a quick value search, went over and looked it/drove it, and an hour later it was at my house. It was more than worth the asking price. So original dude was haggling over $200 for almost a week on a vehicle that was worth $2-3000 more than what the owner was asking. That's easy math, and pretty stupid IMO.

Bought a good amount of things like this over the years. Guns, guitars, all sorts of things. Alot of people think they've got to haggle when it's already a good deal, and they lose. Bought an American Fender Telecaster for $400 about 10 years ago that another guy was haggling for an additional $50 off. Just really, really stupid.
 
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I bought a 2019 Toyota RAV4 hybrid and first thought I had a fuel tank issue. I did an experiment to find out exactly what was going on, so I put a container of one gallon of gas in the rear of the vehicle with a funnel etc. For the last several gas tank fillips, I have gone beyond where it says that you are now on empty and your range is 0 miles. I have progressively driven well beyond empty and the last tank I went over 2 gallons of gas beyond empty which was based on miles per gallon. Some Toyota RAV4s have a problem with the gas tank not being able to be filled and Toyota will fix that. I've owned a Honda CRV and it also would allow you to go well beyond the 0 mile limit. If you are willing to carry a one gallon of gas in a container in your car you can experiment to see about how far you can go (based on your MPG) beyond the 0 mile notice. I know, I'm a geek, but I wanted to know the answer. So, now I do know that I can drive well past the 2 gallon beyond empty.
This had me thinking about the Seinfeld episode where Kramer and the salesman went for drive to see how far they could get past empty.hilarious.I had to go get my wife’s tire fixed a few weeks ago and when I got in it,it was sitting on 0 miles,I was pissed.I still got to the station about 4 miles away.
 
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The average used car price is 24.9% higher than last year at this time. 42% higher than it was in March 2020. Gracious alive.
 
This had me thinking about the Seinfeld episode where Kramer and the salesman went for drive to see how far they could get past empty.hilarious.I had to go get my wife’s tire fixed a few weeks ago and when I got in it,it was sitting on 0 miles,I was pissed.I still got to the station about 4 miles away.
Seems like every dang time I get in my wife's car to go on a long trip it's on E. If you don't notice and drive out of town it's a good ways to the next gas station. So I just started taking her car on errands and filling it up whenever it's below 1/2.
 
I have a 2020 Audi Q8 Premium Plus that is having a lot of electric glitches. I am thinking about going with a Ford Bronco First Year Edition. I was surprised to see some in stock around Atlanta at MSRP. Has anyone purchased a Bronco? Wondering how you like it.
 
I bought a new Camry a couple of years ago for $22k. In March 2021, with 17,000 miles on it, the trade-in value was $16k. I traded it in a few weeks ago for $23k.
 
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I have a 2020 Audi Q8 Premium Plus that is having a lot of electric glitches. I am thinking about going with a Ford Bronco First Year Edition. I was surprised to see some in stock around Atlanta at MSRP. Has anyone purchased a Bronco? Wondering how you like it.
I'd like to know how they are too. To me the latest marketing campaign suggests they want to compete for the Land Rover market ("luxury," off-road SUV).
 
I bought a new Camry a couple of years ago for $22k. In March 2021, with 17,000 miles on it, the trade-in value was $16k. I traded it in a few weeks ago for $23k.

Exact same thing (almost) with our Honda Odyssey with 30k miles. Dealership tried to buy it from me for $2k less than I paid in 2018. Crazy times.
 
The wife and I have a Toyota Highlander and a Lexus is250.
We like them just fine and don't want to sell them and they are pretty much paid for.

Knowing what I already knew that's been detailed in this thread I made darn sure I had new car replacement insurance. I have USAA and for slightly higher premium they give you 20% over the book value If you have a total loss. I think everyone should probably think about doing the same given how hard it would be to get the same vehicle for the same money. Something tells me if you totaled your car the insurance company you would give you what the book value on it was two or three years ago instead of what the inflated used car value is today.
 
I’ve bought nothing but used Toyota’s for the last 30 years. I’ve probably spent 20k total in those 30 years and usually get close to what I paid when I’ve sold them. I’ve never understood why anyone would take that New car depreciation but that’s just me. I’ve got 2 4runners and a 95 Toyota pickup now, all of which will last 20 more years without breaking a sweat. Like the old commercial says. Oh what a feeling, Toyota!
Used car prices are so high these days, you might as well by a new one. Like a previous poster said, paying cash isnt the bargaining chip it used to be.. they'd rather you finance.
 
I'd like to know how they are too. To me the latest marketing campaign suggests they want to compete for the Land Rover market ("luxury," off-road SUV).
It is nicely equipped for $62k but the interior looks Ford not luxury to me. But the RR is $30k more expensive.
 
A guy I do business with was looking for a KIA Telluride. He actually found a 2020 model (new) at a local dealership. He drove over to the lot and looked at it. Sticker price - $48,500.00. He asked the sales rep what was the best price he could offer and the guy came back with $68,000.00. It was a take it or leave it offer.
 
A guy I do business with was looking for a KIA Telluride. He actually found a 2020 model (new) at a local dealership. He drove over to the lot and looked at it. Sticker price - $48,500.00. He asked the sales rep what was the best price he could offer and the guy came back with $68,000.00. It was a take it or leave it offer.
I have been looking for a new truck off and on. I’m in no hurry as I have a 2019 tundra now. Fortunately my pay scale is much higher now compared to then. I want more “amenities” now. I routinely see trucks priced 10k over msrp.
 
I bought a 2022 Nissan Frontier last week. I was driving a 2006 with 202,000 miles waiting for Nissan to change the body style, which they did for 2022. I asked them for an out the door price and they sent me a revised invoice $4000 more than the sticker price. I said no thanks. They called back an hour later and they removed an $890 charge for "special order" because it was now on the lot. They also had a $2900 charge that said addendum. I asked what is that and they said I could get free touch up for nicks and scrapes and 2 free tires a year. I said can it be waived and they said no, so I said I'll pass and hung up. They called back later that day and said they couldn't waive the $2900 but could give me the employee rate of $1000. Then I asked about the trade in value they listed for my 2006 trade in. They said that was all it was worth. I said I'll sell it myself and might get back to them when it sold. The dealership then doubled the trade in value so I bought the truck, still $300 over sticker price. This 2022 Frontier was the first one they received and was the only one on the lot.
 
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I called a guy I have bought a lot of cars from to see what he might have for a relative who is looking. He said his dealership‘s policy is to not sell cars over MSRP. What they are allowed to do is add things to the car such as paint and interior protection, wheel insurance, etc… He said this put all of their cars at $3k over MSRP out the door.
 
In the midst of shopping for a minivan. Car shopping is one my least favorite ventures b/c I just don't trust anyone and feel like everyone is out to rip me off (what a way to go through life, huh?).

Haggling used to be the norm and was expected. Cars were priced with the expectation that folks would haggle. But dealers have all sorts of programs now to pretty much try cutting you off from haggling. They'll claim to have surveyed the local market and generated the best possible price so, guess what...they've done all the hard work so you don't NEED to worry about haggling! How nice of them.

The main problem I find in my area (Northern VA, DC area) is that it's extremely high volume. Cars sell FAST. What I've found is that dealers just don't even bother haggling b/c they know they don't have to. It's not a matter of whether or not they're going to sell the car you're looking at. If you don't buy it, they know someone else probably will tomorrow. Last time we bought a car a few years ago, we found exactly what we wanted and it was priced very well, a bit below KBB. It was priced at like $22,100. I tried to haggle a bit but could tell it was a non-starter. I finally asked the guy "can you knock $100 off for my pride and make it an even $22,000?" Nope. I ended up buying it anyway b/c it was what we were looking for and it was competitively priced.

I do think cars are much more competitively priced now b/c they have to be. Consumers have far more resources at their disposal when looking at car prices than they did 20 or 30 years ago. No more tromping around from dealer to dealer to look at prices. In about 30 seconds you can have the prices for all vehicles matching what you want within a 100 mile radius. You don't have take the dealer's word anymore on KBB or NADA black book values.
Buying a car at a dealership is a royal pain in the ass. Our recent experience at Jim Hudson took several hours.....and we told them up front we were paying in cash. It shouldn't be that damn complicated. When we finally came to terms on all the numbers and options then they tell us "ok, we'll now drive it around back and have it detailed".....we were furious at that point. Never again.
 
A guy I do business with was looking for a KIA Telluride. He actually found a 2020 model (new) at a local dealership. He drove over to the lot and looked at it. Sticker price - $48,500.00. He asked the sales rep what was the best price he could offer and the guy came back with $68,000.00. It was a take it or leave it offer.
Will this be a boon for the motorcycle and scooter market? Or will those prices be likewise propelled into the stratosphere?
 
Will this be a boon for the motorcycle and scooter market? Or will those prices be likewise propelled into the stratosphere?
I changed jobs in May. Now, I'm a Fleet Manager and manage the mobile equipment fleet for a major Aluminum company. I source and buy Forklifts, Railcar Movers, Wheel Loaders, Personnel Carriers, Pickup Trucks, etc.

I do not see anything changing in the Automobile industry until possibly 2023.

The other suppliers I work with can't guarantee pricing for more than 60 days.
Used equipment is now selling for unbelievably high prices.
Some suppliers don't even want to quote new equipment because their lead times are over 12 months.
 
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