Does the clock start ticking with Mark Berson's retirement?

[Carolina Cocktail]

Apparently, Mr Tanner will be making another coaching hire. Although soccer isn't a major sport in our little area of the planet, it is growing in popularity with Americans.

How important is this hire to Carolina? Too important for Tanner to handle? Does his future depend on the handling of this search and hire? Who do we want?

 

[GandBinNC]

Every hire is important. Some more important than others, granted. But every hire has an impact on culture, and fit is important. Berson's is a once-proud program, and came within one win of a national championship in '93. Berson is the winningest active coach in men's soccer.

Having said that, this is a softball (figuratively) hire for Tanner. Carolina has tradition and facilities that few programs can match. Not to mention a well-established and passionate fanbase. This will be a very attractive opening on the national stage.

 

[Cocky_Corleone]

Doug Allison has to be on a short list, right?

 

[winloseortie]

Doug Allison has to be on a short list, right?

Would be a good hire.
Great hire would be Josh Wolff from Austin MLS or Bobby Muus from Wake Forest. Wolff is a pipe dream but he was an All American here. Muus made U of Denver and Wake into national powers. Would probably have to bust the budget to get him.
Dave Guzan would be a another great hire

 

[Freddie.B.Cocky]

Apparently, Mr Tanner will be making another coaching hire. Although soccer isn't a major sport in our little area of the planet, it is growing in popularity with Americans.

How important is this hire to Carolina? Too important for Tanner to handle? Does his future depend on the handling of this search and hire? Who do we want?

I agree with one part of your comment, the soccer hire is too important to Carolina for Tanner to handle.

 

[GSGP69]

I agree with one part of your comment, the soccer hire is too important to Carolina for Tanner to handle.

The Men's team needs to be on the level as our Women's program. Shelly has it moving in a positive upward direction. The men have been sitting on the sideline. he has the record because he is the longest tenured coach because they didn't move on years ago.

 

[JohnnySolo]

Powell Peralta

 

[GeoCocky]

With the right hire, this could be a rapid return to prominence. There are comparatively few NCAA men's teams due to Title IX, there's no real advantage to big conference teams, and there's a lot of regional interest in youth and pro soccer with Atlanta United and (hopefully) a new team in Charlotte. As others have noted, we have good facilities and some tradition. I appreciate Mark and everything he's done, but I'm excited about the opportunity to reboot the program.

 

[king ward]

I know we need to have a program IN CASE the SEC ever adds men's soccer. If I knew right now for a fact that men's soccer would never be added as a championship sport in the SEC, I would be in favor of shutting the program down in favor of a sport that is recognized by the SEC. That position should find no objection among those folks that love the SEC so much. Of course, if we were still in the ACC, we would have been playing for a real conference championship in men's soccer all the while.

 

[Legendary Cock]

The Men's team needs to be on the level as our Women's program. Shelly has it moving in a positive upward direction. The men have been sitting on the sideline. he has the record because he is the longest tenured coach because they didn't move on years ago.

Aren't we part of Conference USA or something in men's soccer? Whatever it is, not being part of a Power 5 conference has apparently been hurting our recruiting along with Berson being well past his prime.

 

[GeoCocky]

Aren't we part of Conference USA or something in men's soccer? Whatever it is, not being part of a Power 5 conference has apparently been hurting our recruiting along with Berson being well past his prime.

C-USA, yes, but I don't think that's necessarily a recruiting issue since many of the top programs are not P5 schools. I think it's more about the state of the program, especially given that soccer isn't a scholarship-heavy sport. Hire a good coach (some good suggestions above), get some wins, and kids will come back.

For reference, here was the Top 25 at the end of the 2019 season, with asterisks for C-USA teams: 1 Georgetown; 2. Virginia; 3 Wake Forest; 4 Stanford; 5 Clemson; 6 Washington; 7 SMU; 8 UC Santa Barbara; 9 Indiana; 10 UCF; 11 Marshall*; 12 St. John's; 13 Virginia Tech; 14 Providence; 15 Saint Mary's (Calif.); 16 Missouri State; 17 Michigan; 18 Penn State; 19 Seattle; 20 Louisville; 21 Charlotte*; 22 New Hampshire; 23 Kentucky*; 24 Campbell; 25 UC Davis.

 

[Legendary Cock]

C-USA, yes, but I don't think that's necessarily a recruiting issue since many of the top programs are not P5 schools. I think it's more about the state of the program, especially given that soccer isn't a scholarship-heavy sport. Hire a good coach (some good suggestions above), get some wins, and kids will come back.

For reference, here was the Top 25 at the end of the 2019 season, with asterisks for C-USA teams: 1 Georgetown; 2. Virginia; 3 Wake Forest; 4 Stanford; 5 Clemson; 6 Washington; 7 SMU; 8 UC Santa Barbara; 9 Indiana; 10 UCF; 11 Marshall*; 12 St. John's; 13 Virginia Tech; 14 Providence; 15 Saint Mary's (Calif.); 16 Missouri State; 17 Michigan; 18 Penn State; 19 Seattle; 20 Louisville; 21 Charlotte*; 22 New Hampshire; 23 Kentucky*; 24 Campbell; 25 UC Davis.

Maybe. But I'm counting only three C-USA teams in the top 25 (none in the top ten), while the ACC had three in the top five alone (five overall). Maybe it's coincidence, but maybe there is something to it.

Regardless, I hope a good hire can reenergize the program and nullify any disadvantage that may or may not exist. The problem with that is Ray will be doing the hiring, so...

 

[sclawman77]

Long overdue. He started coaching at Carolina when I was taking my first baby steps in 1978.

 

[muscleknight]

How does the ACC field men's soccer and men's lacross teams and the SEC can't (or won't)?

 

[king ward]

How does the ACC field men's soccer and men's lacross teams and the SEC can't (or won't)?

In the old days, soccer was considered a bogus variant of football in the Deep South and the SEC didn't want to dignify it by recognizing it, choosing to focus on real football. Then Title IX happened and the rush was on to add women's sports. It's a shame we don't have women's gymnastics at Carolina. I won't venture to speculate why lacrosse was never adopted in the SEC. If I tried to make a joke about it, we've got people on here that would go ballistic.

 

[JasonScottinSC]

Apparently, Mr Tanner will be making another coaching hire. Although soccer isn't a major sport in our little area of the planet, it is growing in popularity with Americans.

How important is this hire to Carolina? Too important for Tanner to handle? Does his future depend on the handling of this search and hire? Who do we want?

I don't have a problem with a lot of the names mentioned above if they want the job. The tricky part is the fact that USC plays in Conference USA and it's hard to recruit "SEC" type of athletes to that. Clemson should always have us beat in men's soccer because they can say, look at our conference and who you get to play. Their is NOTHING attractive for a high quality athlete to play against in C-USA, so you're basically getting mid-major talent (unless it's a kid who just always wanted to go to USC). To me, that's the biggest thing that will hinder anyone with men's soccer.

As for Berson. It's definitely time for a change. It's gotta be hard to fire a legend, and I get the feeling this was a "Look, you need to retire so we don't have to fire you" and the additional year was out of respect to him. I don't have a problem with that.

As for Tanner's ability to hire. I think you have to look at what he's done objectively:
1. Baseball: hired Holbrook - absolutely the right hire AT THE TIME he was hired. It didn't work out, so he's gone. Kingston is another one who looks like a good hire based on his ability to win at programs without a lot of resources and college baseball writers and insiders seemed to think it was a good hire. Again, a good hire at the time. We'll see if it works out. He needs a little time though as baseball IMO is the hardest to turn around quickly due to scholarship limits that levels the playing field so mid-majors can compete for quality kids with the Power 5.
2. Muschamp: Mediocre hire that seemed to pay off early with 3 straight bowls and a 9 win season, but this year was a huge disappointment. Other than taking a risk on a coordinator, I don't know that we were going to land anyone better among the list of "hot coaches" that year: Tom Herman was never coming here and Kirby Smart had offer in hand and UGA fired Richt, so it made sense for him to go there.I think anything less than 7 regular season wins next year and Ray will have to pull the trigger.
3. Volleyball coach: Great hire here. Team hadn't been to NCAA in more than a decade, and this new guy brings them to NCAAs in each of his first 2 seasons.

 

[king ward]

... Muschamp: Mediocre hire that seemed to pay off early with 3 straight bowls and a 9 win season, but this year was a huge disappointment. Other than taking a risk on a coordinator, I don't know that we were going to land anyone better among the list of "hot coaches" that year: Tom Herman was never coming here and Kirby Smart had offer in hand and UGA fired Richt, so it made sense for him to go there.I think anything less than 7 regular season wins next year and Ray will have to pull the trigger...

Last year was a huge disappointment. THIS year was an ultra disappointment.

 

[jeff2001]

He is going to stick around for 1 more big paycheck.

 

[winloseortie]

I don't have a problem with a lot of the names mentioned above if they want the job. The tricky part is the fact that USC plays in Conference USA and it's hard to recruit "SEC" type of athletes to that. Clemson should always have us beat in men's soccer because they can say, look at our conference and who you get to play. Their is NOTHING attractive for a high quality athlete to play against in C-USA, so you're basically getting mid-major talent (unless it's a kid who just always wanted to go to USC). To me, that's the biggest thing that will hinder anyone with men's soccer.

As for Berson. It's definitely time for a change. It's gotta be hard to fire a legend, and I get the feeling this was a "Look, you need to retire so we don't have to fire you" and the additional year was out of respect to him. I don't have a problem with that.

As for Tanner's ability to hire. I think you have to look at what he's done objectively:
1. Baseball: hired Holbrook - absolutely the right hire AT THE TIME he was hired. It didn't work out, so he's gone. Kingston is another one who looks like a good hire based on his ability to win at programs without a lot of resources and college baseball writers and insiders seemed to think it was a good hire. Again, a good hire at the time. We'll see if it works out. He needs a little time though as baseball IMO is the hardest to turn around quickly due to scholarship limits that levels the playing field so mid-majors can compete for quality kids with the Power 5.
2. Muschamp: Mediocre hire that seemed to pay off early with 3 straight bowls and a 9 win season, but this year was a huge disappointment. Other than taking a risk on a coordinator, I don't know that we were going to land anyone better among the list of "hot coaches" that year: Tom Herman was never coming here and Kirby Smart had offer in hand and UGA fired Richt, so it made sense for him to go there.I think anything less than 7 regular season wins next year and Ray will have to pull the trigger.
3. Volleyball coach: Great hire here. Team hadn't been to NCAA in more than a decade, and this new guy brings them to NCAAs in each of his first 2 seasons.

What should also be added is that he retained Dawn. She was set for an interview with Ohio State and they were going to offer the moon. Ray made sure she never went to Columbus.

 

[JasonScottinSC]

What should also be added is that he retained Dawn. She was set for an interview with Ohio State and they were going to offer the moon. Ray made sure she never went to Columbus.

That is absolutely correct! Forgot to mention that, but you are right. Most fans don't want to give Ray credit for that, but that was as big as any hire.

 

[pbranden]

They need to hire a coach with some connection to MLS or even to European or Mexican soccer. With the rise of MLS, pro soccer is a somewhat realistic goal for many of the kids at high level college soccer programs. It's a no-brainer to find someone with a connection to pro soccer.

 

[USC75Grad]

I agree with one part of your comment, the soccer hire is too important to Carolina for Tanner to handle.

I agree. I hope someone else will make the decision.

 

[winloseortie]

They need to hire a coach with some connection to MLS or even to European or Mexican soccer. With the rise of MLS, pro soccer is a somewhat realistic goal for many of the kids at high level college soccer programs. It's a no-brainer to find someone with a connection to pro soccer.

Josh Wolff!! Two time All American here, asst coach on the national team, MLS coach when Austin fields a team

 

[GeoCocky]

He is going to stick around for 1 more big paycheck.

By coaching standards, Berson makes squat, which is actually one of the other reasons that I think they've kept him around. The state part of his salary is just $125,000, plus whatever he gets from camps, etc., which is not reported. I know that's still a lot for many of us, but that's even $50,000 less than Shelley Smith makes.

 

[king ward]

What should also be added is that he retained Dawn. She was set for an interview with Ohio State and they were going to offer the moon. Ray made sure she never went to Columbus.

But only because Hyman hired her first. I doubt if Ray could have pulled that off, or would have even thought about her.

 

[winloseortie]

But only because Hyman hired her first. I doubt if Ray could have pulled that off, or would have even thought about her.

Ray can only be credited or blamed with what he has done while on the job. Dissing him with a hypothetical is just lame.

 

[Legendary Cock]

Ray can only be credited or blamed with what he has done while on the job. Dissing him with a hypothetical is just lame.

Isn't giving credit for a hypothetical equally lame?

 

[winloseortie]

Isn't giving credit for a hypothetical equally lame?

Wonderful philosophical nonsequiter

 

[Legendary Cock]

Wonderful philosophical nonsequiter

How so? There is no guarantee she was going to leave. So when she doesn't up and abandon the eventual dynasty she was in the process of building, Ray gets credit for it?

Ray has certainly shown he can get played when it comes to contracts. And that's no hypothetical. That's a fact.

 

[midline]

Apparently, Mr Tanner will be making another coaching hire. Although soccer isn't a major sport in our little area of the planet, it is growing in popularity with Americans.

How important is this hire to Carolina? Too important for Tanner to handle? Does his future depend on the handling of this search and hire? Who do we want?

I guess every hire is an important hire, but make no mistake, Ray will ultimately be judged on the success of football,and mens basketball. Everything else just fills out the roster of sports that a major institution requires.

 

[king ward]

Ray can only be credited or blamed with what he has done while on the job. Dissing him with a hypothetical is just lame.

It would be if I were doing it to a man of even pedestrian attainments in his current job. As it is, I'm good.

 

[winloseortie]

How so? There is no guarantee she was going to leave. So when she doesn't up and abandon the eventual dynasty she was in the process of building, Ray gets credit for it?

You can lead a man to water but you can’t make him think! Damn brother, did Ray steal your girlfriend in a previous life? Ray wrapped her up for over a decade that weekend with a long term extension and an annuity that actually made it rather a better financial deal for the University.

 

[winloseortie]

It would be if I were doing it to a man of even pedestrian attainments in his current job. As it is, I'm good.

Ah the smugness of a man on the sidelines judging one who has accomplished far more than he has. Of course you’re good. Bless your heart

 

[Legendary Cock]

You can lead a man to water but you can’t make him think! Damn brother, did Ray steal your girlfriend in a previous life? Ray wrapped her up for over a decade that weekend with a long term extension and an annuity that actually made it rather a better financial deal for the University.

Talk about a non sequitur. I hold no grudge or ill will toward Ray or anyone personally. That's just a crutch for those that favor individual ADs and coaches over the University and its athletic programs.

But do we really need to go over all moves he's botched as AD and rehash the fact that he hasn't made a proven good hire yet?

 

[winloseortie]

Talk about a non sequitur. I hold no grudge or ill will toward Ray or anyone personally. That's just a crutch for those that favor individual ADs and coaches over the University and its athletic programs.

But do we really need to go over all moves he's botched as AD and rehash the fact that he hasn't made a proven good hire yet?

Then talk about his faults, you can a lot on that, don’t be obtuse and try to pretend he didn’t do something he did.

 

[king ward]

Ah the smugness of a man on the sidelines judging one who has accomplished far more than he has. Of course you’re good. Bless your heart

He was good as long as he stuck to coaching baseball. Bless his heart.

 

[Legendary Cock]

Then talk about his faults, you can a lot on that, don’t be obtuse and try to pretend he didn’t do something he did.

As I mentioned earlier. It's hard to give him credit for giving out a sweet contract in this case when he's absolutely proven to be completely inept in that area since then. The man is easily played.

 

[winloseortie]

As I mentioned earlier. It's hard to give him credit for giving out a sweet contract in this case when he's absolutely proven to be completely inept in that area since then. The man is easily played.

So any thing he did that was good just proves how inept he is. Got it! Joseph Heller would have loved you!

 

[Legendary Cock]

So any thing he did that was good just proves how inept he is. Got it! Joseph Heller would have loved you!

No. But even if you think he should be credited for keeping Dawn, that doesn't come close to excusing all the other moves he's bungled. That includes his hiring history -- which is what this thread is about. Do you have any actual proof whatsoever that he's definitely made a good hire as AD?

 

[winloseortie]

No. But even if you think he should be credited for keeping Dawn, that doesn't come close to excusing all the other moves he's bungled. That includes his hiring history -- which is what this thread is about. Do you have any actual proof whatsoever that he's definitely made a good hire as AD?

In this thread I have not advocated or argued to retain RT as AD. I merely pointed out one good thing he did. You clearly are so fixated on having him fired that you cannot even acknowledge anything good that he has done.