Does the clock start ticking with Mark Berson's retirement?

[Legendary Cock]

In this thread I have not advocated or argued to retain RT as AD. I merely pointed out one good thing he did. You clearly are so fixated on having him fired that you cannot even acknowledge anything good that he has done.

Lol. You and your straw man arguments. In response to your claim that Ray should get credit for hypothetically keeping Dawn, I simply pointed out that there is ZERO evidence she was going on anywhere. I then pointed out the FACT that he has not hired a coach that has proven to be a winner (again, the point of this entire thread) as AD.

You are the only one trying to make this a personal attack on Ray the man.

 

[A_F_Deerhunter]

The Men's team needs to be on the level as our Women's program. Shelly has it moving in a positive upward direction. The men have been sitting on the sideline. he has the record because he is the longest tenured coach because they didn't move on years ago.

Men play in Metro Conference and women in SEC. No men's Championship in SEC, so the emphasis is low. When the men win enough, we make the playoffs.
May be C-USA.

 

[GeoCocky]

Men play in Metro Conference and women in SEC. No men's Championship in SEC, so the emphasis is low. When the men win enough, we make the playoffs.
May be C-USA.

Conference USA; the Metro ceased existence in 1995. In men's soccer, C-USA includes USC, Marshall, Charlotte, FIU, Kentucky, FAU, UAB, and Old Dominion.

Interesting side story for men's soccer only: we played as an independent from 1991-92 after leaving the Metro, rejoined the Metro for the 1993 and 1994 seasons, played as an independent from 1995-2004, and rejoined the reunified C-USA in 2005.

 

[GeoCocky]

Here's a story talking about the absence of SEC men's soccer from an LSU page a few years back:

https://www.lsureveille.com/sports/...cle_a4d18744-0c4b-11e2-b0eb-0019bb30f31a.html

 

[Freddie.B.Cocky]

Apparently, Mr Tanner will be making another coaching hire. Although soccer isn't a major sport in our little area of the planet, it is growing in popularity with Americans.

How important is this hire to Carolina? Too important for Tanner to handle? Does his future depend on the handling of this search and hire? Who do we want?

Wasn't the Men's Soccer Team started while Jim Carlen was Coach/AD.

 

[GeoCocky]

Wasn't the Men's Soccer Team started while Jim Carlen was Coach/AD.

Correct. Our first season was 1978.

 

[JasonScottinSC]

No. But even if you think he should be credited for keeping Dawn, that doesn't come close to excusing all the other moves he's bungled. That includes his hiring history -- which is what this thread is about. Do you have any actual proof whatsoever that he's definitely made a good hire as AD?

I think you have to look at whether each hire was a good hire when it happened. Sometime's a good hire doesn't work out, but that doesn't mean it wasn't s smart hire. As stated earlier, Holbrook was the right hire at the time he was hired. It didn't work out in the long term and now he's gone, but it's foolish to say that AT THE TIME, it wasn't the right hire. Muschamp wasn't a home run hire at the time. It was more of a B- in my book. It looked like it was going to be awesome after Mushcamp's second year, but it hasn't been as good since. If you want to say Ray got played by Kirby Smart, that's fair in a certain sense. It's my understanding there was an handshake agreement and while the paperwork was being prepared to make it happen, Smart's agent called UGA and UGA fired Richt and the rest is history.

The same people who don't want to give him credit for keeping Dawn would have crucified him if she was allowed to leave for a lateral job. That was huge.

You also have to look at the actions of our board. They've screwed up a lot of things. From what I've heard, they were the ones that demanded that Frank be signed to a long term deal while the Final Four was happening in 2017 right then and there. Members of the board and the new president nearly sabotaged what turned out to be a good recruiting class this year...Muschamp did a good job of keeping it together IMO.

 

[Legendary Cock]

I think you have to look at whether each hire was a good hire when it happened. Sometime's a good hire doesn't work out, but that doesn't mean it wasn't s smart hire. As stated earlier, Holbrook was the right hire at the time he was hired. It didn't work out in the long term and now he's gone, but it's foolish to say that AT THE TIME, it wasn't the right hire. Muschamp wasn't a home run hire at the time. It was more of a B- in my book. It looked like it was going to be awesome after Mushcamp's second year, but it hasn't been as good since. If you want to say Ray got played by Kirby Smart, that's fair in a certain sense. It's my understanding there was an handshake agreement and while the paperwork was being prepared to make it happen, Smart's agent called UGA and UGA fired Richt and the rest is history.

The same people who don't want to give him credit for keeping Dawn would have crucified him if she was allowed to leave for a lateral job. That was huge.

You also have to look at the actions of our board. They've screwed up a lot of things. From what I've heard, they were the ones that demanded that Frank be signed to a long term deal while the Final Four was happening in 2017 right then and there. Members of the board and the new president nearly sabotaged what turned out to be a good recruiting class this year...Muschamp did a good job of keeping it together IMO.

The only hire I would say that was maybe the right one at the time was Holbroke. But Ray still kept him around two years too long.

He definitely got played by Kirby, but that wasn't the only one that has played Ray. Herman and his agent played Ray as well. You could also make the argument that O'Sullivan and his agent played Ray until Florida finally bent to his will and gave him a new contract and promised to build the new stadium and Florida. Since then, Muschamp and his agent had played Ray to the tune of a 20 million dollar buyout. And let's be honest here. A real AD doesn't let himself get played the way Ray has.

It's one thing to make a bad hire or have one that doesn't work out. It's another to not give yourself a way out of it. Ray has doubled down on his bad hires and it's biting us in the ass right now.

I don't disagree with you about our BOT. They have definitely screwed things up in the past and very recently. But they also get the blame for giving Ray that job in the first place when he is obviously unqualified for it. They also get part of the blame for approving his ridiculous buyouts and extensions he's handed out like candy at Halloween.

If one wants to make an argument and give Ray credit for a keeping Dawn, that's OK. We'll just agree to disagree. But there's simply no denying that our major men's sports have floundered and/or gotten worse under his watch. The numbers just don't lie.

 

[AtlasShrugged]

Men's soccer is a long way from where it should be.

 

[Gamecockben1979]

USC soccer now = USA soccer now.

 

[spardue]

We have a Men’s Soccer team?

 

[NMB Dave]

Our neighbors in the upstate have had the advantage in recent years. That is reason enough that we need to turn things around with a great coaching hire.
Berson just couldn’t recruit in his later years. We haven’t made the tournament in 4 or 5 years and haven’t been competitive in it for longer than that!

I’m hopeful that we can land a good coach. We have great facilities, fan support, and even a decent history

 

[polo-loco]

Ah the smugness of a man on the sidelines judging one who has accomplished far more than he has. Of course you’re good. Bless your heart

What are Ray Tanner's accomplishments as AD?

 

[USC2USC]

The Men's team needs to be on the level as our Women's program. Shelly has it moving in a positive upward direction. The men have been sitting on the sideline. he has the record because he is the longest tenured coach because they didn't move on years ago.

I would say Shelley Smith has the womens program more than just moving in the right direction. She has been at Carolina for 20 years. Her teams have been to the NCAA tourney 12 times, reaching the College Cup once and has won 5 SEC titles. Her program is one of the premier women's programs in the country.

 

[USC2USC]

Apparently, Mr Tanner will be making another coaching hire. Although soccer isn't a major sport in our little area of the planet, it is growing in popularity with Americans.

How important is this hire to Carolina? Too important for Tanner to handle? Does his future depend on the handling of this search and hire? Who do we want?

Men's soccer is just another men's program at Carolina that Tanner has watched slide into mediocrity. A once proud program where an aging coach was allowed to stay too long because....you know....Tanner is a coach's guy.

That being said....the college landscape for men's soccer has changed dramatically over the last 20 years. It is now ruled by the ACC and the Pac 12. Not to mention our rivals are currently ranked #1. Only a handful of SEC schools field a team, it is not a conference sport so we languish in Conference USA. I have doubts SC will ever be able to be competitive at a high level due to the situation with the league. The best players in our area want to go to an ACC school. If covid financial pressures get really high, this would be a logical sport to cut. And I like soccer, so would not like to see that.

 

[Gamecockben1979]

Men's soccer is just another men's program at Carolina that Tanner has watched slide into mediocrity. A once proud program where an aging coach was allowed to stay too long because....you know....Tanner is a coach's guy.

That being said....the college landscape for men's soccer has changed dramatically over the last 20 years. It is now ruled by the ACC and the Pac 12. Not to mention our rivals are currently ranked #1. Only a handful of SEC schools field a team, it is not a conference sport so we languish in Conference USA. I have doubts SC will ever be able to be competitive at a high level due to the situation with the league. The best players in our area want to go to an ACC school. If covid financial pressures get really high, this would be a logical sport to cut. And I like soccer, so would not like to see that.

You bring up some great points. The SEC needs to get serious about this or we need to be able to seek a conference affiliation for soccer with a conference like the ACC for soccer only.

As much as Berson probably needed to be gone 20 years ago, the conference situation cannot help matters.

 

[USC2USC]

You bring up some great points. The SEC needs to get serious about this or we need to be able to seek a conference affiliation for soccer with a conference like the ACC for soccer only.

As much as Berson probably needed to be gone 20 years ago, the conference situation cannot help matters.

I agree. But from what I have read, the men's soccer question is a non-starter with the SEC. SC and UK are the only league school's with teams. The conference has no desire to compete in men's soccer. That decision would probably also create some Title IV compliance issues.

The ACC would have zero motivation to include non-full member schools for soccer.