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Dual Threat vs Pocket Passer

Obviously you have no clue. Zone blocking has been around before Denver made it famous. We were zone blocking in high School. Leading with the same foot to your area, creates the crease for the RB to cut back while leaving the backside unblocked. I'm not saying Brad Scott invented it. Brad didn't install it until 1996. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.goupstate.com/article/19960911/News/605185567?template=ampart&ved=2ahUKEwjvuOvko-nrAhWOVN8KHTtVCs4QFjAHegQIBhAB&usg=AOvVaw06PDsUVA-_3gMnwaasZipy&ampcf=1
I do have a clue.
You are missing most of the scheme..... ("Zone blocking is playside and the backside leading with same foot").
It's way more than footwork....it's who blocks who, who moves on the the next level, how the RB responds to what the blocking is giving him, etc.
There are many plays designed to work with this scheme including option plays (zone read).
 
I do have a clue.
You are missing most of the scheme..... ("Zone blocking is playside and the backside leading with same foot").
It's way more than footwork....it's who blocks who, who moves on the the next level, how the RB responds to what the blocking is giving him, etc.
There are many plays designed to work with this scheme including option plays (zone read).
No you don't, Run Zone blocking is designed to block a area. Whoever is in your area is who you block. Read the article Einstein. When it comes to scheme that's what different. Teams do their combos different and pull different. And when Sean Elliot came in, he implemented the run scheme they done at App St. And Steve Spurrier will tell you that.
 
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For those that understand offense, why has the success of Connor Shaw not rubbed off on this coaching staff? I understand Stockton is a dual threat QB and he obviously excels at it but it's my understanding Bobo doesn't run his offense with such a QB style. It seems to me that with our mediocre OL play over the years and the speed of today's defenses, why not design our offense around a dual threat QB especially since we can't recruit/coach up major talent to support drive killing pocket passers?
Good coaches adapt scheme to maximize personnel. Spurrier hated the idea of Shaw tucking the ball and taking off but he adapted. As I understand, many of Bobo’s concepts are of the same ancestry as Spurrier’s; although Bobo isn’t the flashiest name, he knows how to scheme and won’t hobble QBs who can run.
 
No you don't, Run Zone blocking is designed to block a area. Whoever is in your area is who you block. Read the article Einstein. When it comes to scheme that's what different. Teams do their combos different and pull different. And when Sean Elliot came in, he implemented the run scheme they done at App St. And Steve Spurrier will tell you that.
Read my comments dipsh_t. I never stated anything about "blocking an area". You're the one who originally implied it was about footwork....now you're adding to your comments. What a jerk.
Go back to hating Spurrier because we never won a title.
 
Spurrier hated the idea of Shaw tucking the ball and taking off but he adapted.
Steve could see open receivers that Connor couldn't. Connor's greatest weakness was his struggles with seeing the field. He emerged as a solid pocket passer by his Sr. season.
 
No you don't, Run Zone blocking is designed to block a area. Whoever is in your area is who you block. Read the article Einstein. When it comes to scheme that's what different. Teams do their combos different and pull different. And when Sean Elliot came in, he implemented the run scheme they done at App St. And Steve Spurrier will tell you that.
I think this was Spurrier’s best coaching decision here at SC. Getting Elliot and letting Conner Shaw use his strengths. Best adaptation by an offensive genius.
 
Steve could see open receivers that Connor couldn't. Connor's greatest weakness was his struggles with seeing the field. He emerged as a solid pocket passer by his Sr. season.
Yep. In a lot of ways I think they moved toward one another philosophically. Shaw kept trying to improve his skills reading defenses and waiting for plays to develop, and Spurrier at some point toned down the agitation with Shaw when he realized that moving the chains on 3rd and 11 by scrambling as opposed to hitting the sideline curl was still moving the chains. Once he came to trust Shaw, he started to see him as a weapon rather than a liability and they sort of both grew.
 
Read my comments dipsh_t. I never stated anything about "blocking an area". You're the one who originally implied it was about footwork....now you're adding to your comments. What a jerk.
Go back to hating Spurrier because we never won a title.
You really have no clue. It's all about footwork when zone blocking. That's why backside is never blocked. The line is leading with the foot that's to the playside. You said it's who you block, its the area you block. Anybody that's ever run zone blocked knows the foot you lead with is the area or gap your blocking.
 
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You really have no clue. It's all about footwork when zone blocking. That's why backside is never blocked. The line is leading with the foot that's to the playside. You said it's who you block, its the area you block. Anybody that's ever run zone blocked knows the foot you lead with is the area or gap your blocking.
And so moving to the next "zone" after you've hit your man is not a factor? Or moving with your man rather than trying to drive him to some location is not zone blocking? Or double teaming someone when you got no one in your zone is not zone blocking? It's all about the footwork, I see.
You're the expert....I have no clue.
 
Yep. In a lot of ways I think they moved toward one another philosophically. Shaw kept trying to improve his skills reading defenses and waiting for plays to develop, and Spurrier at some point toned down the agitation with Shaw when he realized that moving the chains on 3rd and 11 by scrambling as opposed to hitting the sideline curl was still moving the chains. Once he came to trust Shaw, he started to see him as a weapon rather than a liability and they sort of both grew.
Yup....Connor was smarter than his coaches. :)
 
And so moving to the next "zone" after you've hit your man is not a factor? Or moving with your man rather than trying to drive him to some location is not zone blocking? Or double teaming someone when you got no one in your zone is not zone blocking? It's all about the footwork, I see.
You're the expert....I have no clue.
I have no clue what your talking about when you say next zone. If your talking about the next level or downfield your blocking whoever is in your area without letting them cross your face. The zone in zone blocking means the gap your blocking in. It don't matter if it's at line scrimmage or 4 yards past it.
 
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For those that understand offense, why has the success of Connor Shaw not rubbed off on this coaching staff? I understand Stockton is a dual threat QB and he obviously excels at it but it's my understanding Bobo doesn't run his offense with such a QB style. It seems to me that with our mediocre OL play over the years and the speed of today's defenses, why not design our offense around a dual threat QB especially since we can't recruit/coach up major talent to support drive killing pocket passers?
dylan thompson did very well as a pocket passer, problem was we didnt have any defense
 
For those that understand offense, why has the success of Connor Shaw not rubbed off on this coaching staff? I understand Stockton is a dual threat QB and he obviously excels at it but it's my understanding Bobo doesn't run his offense with such a QB style. It seems to me that with our mediocre OL play over the years and the speed of today's defenses, why not design our offense around a dual threat QB especially since we can't recruit/coach up major talent to support drive killing pocket passers?

Dual threat QBs work well when the OC knows how to operate and coach such a system. A coach like Spurrier is versatile enough to coach and win with both styles - drop-back/under center passer and dual threat. Bobo is a coach who likes to operate a more traditional offense. Anyway, with Muschamp you have to coach ball control offense. I wonder why Stockton committed knowing what Bobo did at UGA and CSU. I suppose it is because of the Jaybo Shaw (Connor's brother).
 
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Until we surround any of our QBs with the NFL talent that surrounded Shaw. It will be hard to achieve the success Shaw's teams had. Playing ball control winning with defense takes talent. We aren't nowhere close on defense. With our defense and overall lack of talent on offense We'll continue having to throw the ball over 30 times a game. Relying on our QBs to win the game every week.

Until we surround ourselves with good coaches .... we are going nowhere fast.
 
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Well screw you. I have great memories of winning 33 games in 3 years. Being bitter gets no respect from me.
some people seem to forget and clemson and uga fans knew this and reminded us of it, and that was spurrier was here at the perfect time to get all that homegrown nfl talent, and they knew it wouldnt last long.. however our fans thought we were on the way to greatness,myself included. another thing is with all that national championship caliber talent and a weaker schedule than we have now and we still couldnt even win the east, much less the conference and nc.. yall keep riding spurriers nuts if you want but even if he had been younger its doubtful he woulda kept pace but lets hang muschamp for this very same fact. if yall knew half as much about football as yall thought ,you could take champs place, but all yall know is we either win a game or we lose it and thats as far as most peoples knowledge on here goes
 
Until we surround ourselves with good coaches .... we are going nowhere fast.
Can we trust Ray to make the right decisions. The jury is still out. As far as Muschamp my heart hopes he can turn this thing around. My head says he doesn't stand a chance
 
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I have no clue what your talking about when you say next zone. If your talking about the next level or downfield your blocking whoever is in your area without letting them cross your face. The zone in zone blocking means the gap your blocking in. It don't matter if it's at line scrimmage or 4 yards past it.
Zone was the wrong word....yea it's called next level. This is where it differs from traditional blocking where the OL stays with the defender until the whistle blows. Zone blocking was designed to alleviate the need for the OL to out-physical the defenders. It allows for smaller OL to be effective. Instead of trying to drive the defender away from a hole, they drive with the defender which creates gaps/seams. Not all RBs can read the gaps.
The OL also stays with the defender for a short time, then releases for downfield blocking.
 
some people seem to forget and clemson and uga fans knew this and reminded us of it, and that was spurrier was here at the perfect time to get all that homegrown nfl talent, and they knew it wouldnt last long.. however our fans thought we were on the way to greatness,myself included. another thing is with all that national championship caliber talent and a weaker schedule than we have now and we still couldnt even win the east, much less the conference and nc.. yall keep riding spurriers nuts if you want but even if he had been younger its doubtful he woulda kept pace but lets hang muschamp for this very same fact. if yall knew half as much about football as yall thought ,you could take champs place, but all yall know is we either win a game or we lose it and thats as far as most peoples knowledge on here goes
Just curious if Spurrier only had success because SC had lots of in state NFL talent which is now gone how is the other school in SC having success now that there isn’t all of this in state NFL talent?
 
Zone was the wrong word....yea it's called next level. This is where it differs from traditional blocking where the OL stays with the defender until the whistle blows. Zone blocking was designed to alleviate the need for the OL to out-physical the defenders. It allows for smaller OL to be effective. Instead of trying to drive the defender away from a hole, they drive with the defender which creates gaps/seams. Not all RBs can read the gaps.
The OL also stays with the defender for a short time, then releases for downfield blocking.
Yeah I know this, thats why you don't double team its always a combo block working to the next level. Not worried blowing someone off the ball. Its all angles, that’s why everybody's first step is a 45 angle to the playside. When you get the defense going that way, its what opens the crease in middle Duce was excellent at planting that foot and cutting back and hitting the crease. Terrell Davis is probably the best ever at reading and cutting back to hit that crease.
 
You're not going to win a championship without a QB who is pretty darn good at scrambling. Watson and Lawrence running definitely played a pretty dang important part in crucial parts of their season and definitely in the playoffs. Alabama even had to start recruiting more mobile QBs. When those teams with that much talent around them have to depend on it, we dang sure need it. Actually, I think it's would take us having the next Cam Newton for us to have a chance at winning an SEC championship.
 
Good coaches adapt scheme to maximize personnel. Spurrier hated the idea of Shaw tucking the ball and taking off but he adapted. As I understand, many of Bobo’s concepts are of the same ancestry as Spurrier’s; although Bobo isn’t the flashiest name, he knows how to scheme and won’t hobble QBs who can run.
I hope we see that.
 
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More than one way to skin a cat just be good at what you do. Tom Brady, Joe Montana and Peyton Manning were never much of a threat to beat you with their legs but they could kill you with their arm.

Steve Young, Connor Shaw and Lamar Jackson are some examples of dual threat. You don’t have to recruit one style to win but you do need your QB to be good at something. That’s been our issue. With the exception of Connor Shaw and Dylan Thompson, great QB play has been hard to come by for the Gamecocks. I include Thompson because if we had a competent defensive coordinator, he would have had a great senior year.
 
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Zone was the wrong word....yea it's called next level. This is where it differs from traditional blocking where the OL stays with the defender until the whistle blows. Zone blocking was designed to alleviate the need for the OL to out-physical the defenders. It allows for smaller OL to be effective. Instead of trying to drive the defender away from a hole, they drive with the defender which creates gaps/seams. Not all RBs can read the gaps.
The OL also stays with the defender for a short time, then releases for downfield blocking.

You’re 100% correct. Usually the OL is just supposed to chip the defender and keep going.

People complain about Roper and BMac as OC’s, and between the two I actually thought Roper did an overall better job. But if you go back and look closely at game footage, in many cases our run game suffered because our RB’s didn’t have the God given gifts of vision and the ability to cut into those seams. The openings were usually there, the RB’s missed them.

Guys like Marcus and Wilds could see those openings and make that split second adjustment. David Williams didn’t have that ability, but he was better suited to an I-Formation, more traditional type offense. One season at Arkansas under Bielema was enough to get him a NFL contract, when he barely saw the field here.
 
Just curious if Spurrier only had success because SC had lots of in state NFL talent which is now gone how is the other school in SC having success now that there isn’t all of this in state NFL talent?

A lot of the core group of instate guys we got (Gilmore, Swearinger, Alston, Holloman, etc) came here largely because Tennessee, Clemson, and FSU underwent HBC changes relatively closely together. Swearinger was a UT commit, Gilmore and Holloman were Clemson leans. It became cool to play here.

Those guys led us to guys like Marcus and Clowney.

Afterwards, instate talent most definitely decreased substantially. If you look at who Clemson seriously recruits, they might look at the top couple of guys instate, but their success has largely allowed them to recruit better talent nationally.
 
But ball control was not Spurrier's design. It was a byproduct of a QB who could get 1st downs and keep the offense on the field. This was especially true with the '11 team.
I think it went against everything Spurrier wanted from an offense. His passion has always been the fun and gun. You have to give him credit for recognizing what he had in Shaw and realizing he could win that way. There was a lot of NFL talent on those teams, more than we've ever had during any time period that I can think of and it was on both sides of the ball. We have gotten better on defense but I don't think that we're anywhere near where we thought we would be when Muschamp was hired. He's supposed to be a great defensive mind and we thought our defense would be great sooner. You have to have the talent and I think we are getting there defensively. The LB position could get better. Offensively we seem to need WRs and OL bad. You would think that with all of the highly rated QBs we keep signing that we'd have more interest from WRs. Everyone thought that Wolf was going to solve all of our problems on the OL. I'm not sure that he has ever fielded a great OL for us during either stint here coaching. It's true that the players he recruited played good ball for us but they were coached by Shawn Elliot
 
A lot of the core group of instate guys we got (Gilmore, Swearinger, Alston, Holloman, etc) came here largely because Tennessee, Clemson, and FSU underwent HBC changes relatively closely together. Swearinger was a UT commit, Gilmore and Holloman were Clemson leans. It became cool to play here.

Those guys led us to guys like Marcus and Clowney.

Afterwards, instate talent most definitely decreased substantially. If you look at who Clemson seriously recruits, they might look at the top couple of guys instate, but their success has largely allowed them to recruit better talent nationally.
I completely get that but the insinuation was that we shouldn’t expect success now because in state talent is down. I was just looking for the individual who felt that way to explain how the other in state team is bucking that trend. I know why but I was curious where they were coming from.
 
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But if you go back and look closely at game footage, in many cases our run game suffered because our RB’s didn’t have the God given gifts of vision and the ability to cut into those seams.
Some of this was poor play design. I still have vid clips of us running plays v SEC teams where we telegraphed exactly where we were going by pulling guards/TEs. The opposing LBs just followed the blockers to the ball carrier. That was just stupid. We have to always have something in place to offset the speed of SEC defenses...reverses, reads, options, etc. And while the RPO seems do work well in the NFL, if we cannot run it without all kinds of mistakes, then stick to something more basic.

It can be said that Spurrier was more successful with his hybrid fun'n'gun/zone run plays offense than any of the offenses under Muschamp. The base zone read is still our best run play of the last 10 years. Muschamp apparently does not like running QBs.
 
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I think it went against everything Spurrier wanted from an offense. His passion has always been the fun and gun. You have to give him credit for recognizing what he had in Shaw and realizing he could win that way.
I give him more credit for integrating all those zone run type plays into his F'nG passing offense. Then again he had to do something.
 
Isn't the zone read offense something that Elliot brought over from App St?
Yea...for the most part. It's easy to confuse some of those plays with what we were calling the wildcat as well as some of the spread type runs with guys crossing in the backfield before the snap. I do know when Shawn got here, we started running a lot of new plays that the OL blocked well on. This led to that great first season with Marcus.
 
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