For those of you who live and die by recruiting rankings
- Thread starter Irmo Cock
- Start date
I don't live and die by recruting rankings, but Clemson has 5 of the top 50 guys in the country and 7 of the top 100. We have 1 in the top 100. Based on rankings alone, there is a very big difference in these 2 classes. You are choosing to ignore this. These 2 classes aren't close in terms of quality based on the rankings.
Now, the rankings may or may not be bs, I don't know. But based purely off of the rankings, they are blistering us.
This post was edited on 2/3 9:29 AM by Cackdiesel
Now, the rankings may or may not be bs, I don't know. But based purely off of the rankings, they are blistering us.
This post was edited on 2/3 9:29 AM by Cackdiesel
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Originally posted by Irmo Cock:
and how we compare to Climpson...we have 11 4 star commitments and Climpson has 12 4 star or higher commitments. Wooo what a HUGE difference.
This post was edited on 2/3 9:14 AM by Irmo Cock
I don't care necessarily about stars. I care about the raw talent they bring, and how that talent can be used. I seem to remember Connor Shaw being a 3 * QB, and we all know his name and how it relates to USC Football. Sure, Lattimore and Clowney were 5* athletes, but this goes to show that sometimes, stars aren't always bright.
Well I saw this morning where 14 of Ohio State's 22 starters in the championship game were ESPN top 300 recruits the year they signed. Pretty sure that is more the rule than the exception for championship teams. Signing top players doesn't guarantee success, but it sure makes the odds more likely. And if anyone can't see that Clemson is killing it in recruiting, either you are being naïve or petty. We need to step up our game in recruiting. Can you imagine what Spurrier could do with the players Clemson is bringing in lately? Thank god Clemson has a cheerleader and not a coach.
This post was edited on 2/3 10:25 AM by Laziness
This post was edited on 2/3 10:26 AM by Laziness
This post was edited on 2/3 10:25 AM by Laziness
This post was edited on 2/3 10:26 AM by Laziness
What I see is Clemson has usually had higher ranked classes and we still beat the crap outta them. Dilbo and crew turn 5 stars into 4 and 4 into 3. I think our coaches do a better job of evaluating. Of course you don't hit on every one and the top 250 recruits can't all be in the top 25 or the top 50, but most of the time they're all pretty equal. Relax and remember where we are now. Youth hurt us on defense last year, but I see that changing. QB is the key this year.
I will be shocked if Spurrier ever beats Clemson again. I just don't see him being here long enough. Optimism is a good thing, but you're just not realisitc at all. And our coaches do not do a better job of evaluating. Their quarterback is better than anything we have, period. And damn near every coach in the country agrees with me, because they all recruited him. I specifically mentioned quarterback because you say that's the key this year.
I do think we've coached better than them in the past, so I'll give you that. But we did not coach better than them last year and we have the same coaches going forward. They had better players and better coaches than us last year.
And finally, the top 25 and top 50 recruits most often are significantly better than those in the bottom part of the top 250. They are not all pretty equal. Of course, there are those who don't pan out, but you are kidding yourself if you don't think there's a difference.
Look at your last ten national champions and SEC champions (they're the same in most years, as you know). You'll see that they have owned the top rated kids. I'd do it myself but I don't have the time and I don't really need to. I already know the answer. This coach 'em up crap only works if you actually do it, and we are not doing it.
I disagree with your thinking that clemson doesn't harness the full capability of their players. They did just have one of be too defenses in America, we have to give them credit for that.
But I do want to make something clear to those of you who want us to sign the best kids out there. Every school runs a unique offense and defense and only certain players will fit into the roles. You can sign the number 1 rated Qb in America but if you run an option based offense because you don't have good recievers or a good line then chances are he isn't going to look like the best. While you could bring in then 20th best dual threat QB and he could look 10 times better than the number 1 guy. This is because everyone fits in differently to each offense and defense. Just because a guy is a 2 star or 3 star doesn't mean he can't shine in your offense or defense.
Now on to these decommits. 9 is a serious thing, but guys we still have about 30 guys commited! We are going to be fine, I'm not a big supported of deke Adams given his track record but ward has had one down year after losing a lot of talent. If he can't get us to step up on defense this year then yes we need to make a change but not after one year, especially after having good defenses the last few years.
But I do want to make something clear to those of you who want us to sign the best kids out there. Every school runs a unique offense and defense and only certain players will fit into the roles. You can sign the number 1 rated Qb in America but if you run an option based offense because you don't have good recievers or a good line then chances are he isn't going to look like the best. While you could bring in then 20th best dual threat QB and he could look 10 times better than the number 1 guy. This is because everyone fits in differently to each offense and defense. Just because a guy is a 2 star or 3 star doesn't mean he can't shine in your offense or defense.
Now on to these decommits. 9 is a serious thing, but guys we still have about 30 guys commited! We are going to be fine, I'm not a big supported of deke Adams given his track record but ward has had one down year after losing a lot of talent. If he can't get us to step up on defense this year then yes we need to make a change but not after one year, especially after having good defenses the last few years.
Recruits are not as important as good coaches being able to coach guys up, even 2 and 3 star players. Even with a 4-5 star, Ward and company can't get it done. Proved it this year, absolutely no improvement from start to finish. 2015 will be a disaster with these guys.
Agreed. Both are important, but coaches are more important. You need both to sustain any long term success though.
I just don't understand how anyone can say recruiting rankings don't matter. There is a reason LSU, Alabama, Auburn, and usually Florida have been winning the SEC and Kentucky, Mississippi, Arkansas, South Carolina and the like aren't. There is a reason we had our best seasons ever when we had Alshon, Gilmore, Clowney, Lattimore, and other top recruits. Take beating Clemson out of the equation, merely beating them each year is not what our goal is. To win the SEC you have to have very good players, not just a bunch of solid players who want to be here that we can coach up. Of course some guys miss like Roland, but that's why you need a lot of top level talent, so a few misses don't sink your season. I love the Gamecocks, and I'll be at every game regardless, but we do need to recruit better to realistically compete for the SEC title. While there is no guarantee highly rated classes will win a championship, see Georgia and their waste of top talent, but it sure make the odds more likely. Let's not pretend rankings aren't important.
I know where the taters DO have us beat...fans. You are a bunch of whiny girls. We've won 40 games in 4 years. We spanked climpson's butts with the so called better recruits 5 out of 6 years and you whine and cry like a bunch of girls. I am ashamed you call yourselves Gamecocks. You need to change YOUR mascot to GameChicken for sure! Please de-commit!
Next time keep your little laughing emoticon to yourself if you can't handle differing opinions.
This is one of the more pathetic, sad posts I've seen on here. I actually had a vision of you crying when you wrote this. The "please de-commit" part was over the top for a grown individual (I assume you are one). I'll do you a favor. I'm not going to respond directly to any more of your posts. If I happen to, it's a mistake and I want you to feel free to call me out on it. I won't challenge any more of your opinions in the future, and I'm sorry that I did so here.
Recruiting rankings are only important if you want to win a national championship. Since 1998, every FBS national champion has had at least 3 of 4 of their previous classes ranked in the Top 10.
So no, USC vs. clem in rankings aren't going to make a bit of difference. Of course neither is going to win a national championship either.
So no, USC vs. clem in rankings aren't going to make a bit of difference. Of course neither is going to win a national championship either.
Sad that a Gamecock would have to defend an optimistic position on a Gamecock board against a so-call Gamecock fan. Either you: * Are truly miserable and this is just another venue to be that way, * Are so worried that your friends will make fun of you even more if "your team" loses again, * Or, are just a troll. Pretty bad when Clemson fans on our board make more sense and are more reasonable than all of this crap. Here's a clue...nobody was happy with the way last season went, but my god, man, either back off the ledge or jump. Or better yet, why bother any more? So much pain and misery can't be good for you. Maybe a relaxing hobby during the fall would be a better option. Just looking out for you.
I'm not miserable at all. I was simply pointing out that he doesn't know what the hell he's talking about. And I'm not overly optimistic or pessimistic. I'm realistic and here's what I think.
1) We have a one time great head coach, some other decent coaches and a couple that are terrible
2) We have average recruting classes that will keep us in a top 15 to top 40 range given our coaching situtation
3) Our recruting classes are about middle of the pack in the conference, and that's about where we will wind up for the forseeable future
4) Clemson is recruiting much better than us, and should beat us based on the difference in our classes
I'm not sure how any reasonable person can argue with any of that. And I'm also not crazy enough to think it will ever get much better than that for an extended period of time. Sure, we can do better in 3-4 year spans and we'll do worse in 3-4 year spans, but thats about where this program is and will be based primarily on our geography. If that makes me miserable or a troll, then so be it. Like I said, I'm just calling out a poster who continually looks past shortcomings in recruiting. And not only that, with his delivery he invited the very kind of posts he later cried about.
This post was edited on 2/3 1:07 PM by Cackdiesel
While what you say is true, the cumulative effect of all of the negativity does no one any good. Concerning your points, those are facts...except that they are still filled with opinion. 1) We do have a quality coach that has proven that he can win, and hopefully adjust over time. No reason to not give them the benefit of the doubt. 2) We still have a highly rated class that fills several of our needs. In the range we are in, there is so little difference between spots, it is minimal. In addition, we are talking about fractions of points assigned to players by recruiting services. Is there that big of a difference between a 5.5 and a 5.6 rated player if there may be other factors that will decide his success in college? Probably not. Are we close to the elite in classes? Nope. However, is there that big of a difference in the 15th rated class vs. the 9th? Probably not. Just curious where Missouri finished in recruiting over the last few years. 3) Regarding Clemson, they are in the same boat we were in defensively last year. They will have a drop off. No way around that. At the QB position, they are an injury away from being mediocre without Watson. Oh, and they are losing their OC. This isn't breaking news, but this will still take some adjusting. Too many variables to throw in the towel.
Oh really? Ohio State's 2010 class was ranked #26 with an average star ranking of 3.39 with 8 four stars and 9 three stars.
And the next year they had 10 4 stars, but I didn't see the ranking. Still less than what we have in this class.
This post was edited on 2/3 3:02 PM by Irmo Cock
This post was edited on 2/3 3:02 PM by Irmo Cock
Irmocock, going off rivals since this is a rivals site, Ohio State's last 4 classes have been 11th, 4th, 2nd, and 3rd. Since they just won the title, not sure they really support the argument you were making. Pretty sure they would agree recruiting rankings matter a lot.
This post was edited on 2/3 3:40 PM by Laziness
This post was edited on 2/3 3:40 PM by Laziness
Irmocock, I wasn't questioning their info. I was pointing out to you that Ohio St. directly, and completely, refutes your argument. They killed it recruiting three years in a row and won a title, and look good to compete for it again this year. Pretty much indicates recruiting rankings and stars, while not a perfect science, are a pretty solid indicator for future success
This post was edited on 2/4 8:46 AM by Laziness
This post was edited on 2/4 8:46 AM by Laziness
While you're right about their past delusions, they are bringing in classes now that can compete with anyone. I hate that as much as you do, but it's true.
We have a better play caller at head coach, but I'd take their oline and defensive coaches over ours seven days a week.
I can't wait to hear the excuses this season. Give Elliot time, we are young, our schedule is tough.....
How freaking hard is this:
Ohio State
2010 - 25
2011 - 11
2012 - 4
2013 - 2
2014 - 3
The Ohio State site mentioned above may have used rankings before they were finanlized.
Ohio State
2010 - 25
2011 - 11
2012 - 4
2013 - 2
2014 - 3
The Ohio State site mentioned above may have used rankings before they were finanlized.
Irmocock, Yes, if every class was like their 2010 class they would be going 7-6 like us too. But then they killed it in recruiting in 2011, 2012, 2013, and 2014. #11, #4, #,2, and #3. Somehow they managed to win a title with their 40+ ESPN top 300 recruits on their team last year. But you're right, rankings don't matter. Why is this so hard for you to grasp?
He does not want to grasp it. His mind is made up and nothing that has happened or happens in the future will change his mind. This is as simple as it gets and he refuses to listen to anyone who doesn't agree with his stance, facts be damned.
Sure you can compete, but if you want to the national championship you need at least three Top 10 classes (at least in the BCS era) in your last four. That's how OSU was on their 3rd string QB and he played well enough to beat 3 top 10 teams coming off the bench. Because they had top 10 recruiting classes in each of the last three years.
That's not to say it will never happen outside this rule (anything is possible), but until it does, this is the rule.
Anyone who uses more than 2% of their brain would know that the four teams in this past years playoffs would have named the score on us. We could not have competed with any of the four for more than a quarter without getting blown the hell out. Period.
