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Frank Martin said the "R" word...

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USC2USC said:
And thus he begins his campaign over the next year to keep his job......results on the court be damned.

A coach moving into his 10th season at a school even uttering the R term is pretty unbelievable.
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This is a bad marriage that has to delay the inevitable divorce only because of money. Terrible situation for everyone but Frank, as he keeps cashing checks that no other school in the country would come close to matching.
 
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I’m all for a true rebuild.

Minus Frank and his so-called boss - Magoo.

F’d or R’d, it is past time for change on both accounts.

Since incompetence appears systematic at UofSC, new hires likely won’t bring about real change.

But, at least we can try.

Accepting the same mediocre BS is just sad.
 
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USC2USC said:
And thus he begins his campaign over the next year to keep his job......results on the court be damned.

A coach moving into his 10th season at a school even uttering the R term is pretty unbelievable.
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The only R words that should be associated with a coach in year 10 is Rings or Recruiting. Anyone in a rebuilding year at year ten begs the question “ what the hell were you doing the first 9 years”?
 
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JamesRob said:
This is a bad marriage that has to delay the inevitable divorce only because of money. Terrible situation for everyone but Frank, as he keeps cashing checks that no other school in the country would come close to matching.
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All you say is factual. But here is the other side of the coin, especially since things will be back to normal this year. The place will be like a tomb from an attendance standpoint. We all have been in that building when it was shamefully embarrassing. It might be worse this year as apathy set in a year, or two, ago. Now Ray and the BOT sent another very strong message to the fan base that winning is not a top priority at USC. One would think that a new coach would bring some hope, some enthusiasm, back to the program. One has to figure that much greater numbers would show up just to support the change. Why is there a reason to go to the arena when the fan base knows they are trying harder than the university itself. There should be some prize for the person that can come the closest to naming the number of the lowest attended game next year. There might be a couple dogs on that schedule, around the holidays, where the don't scratch four digits in folks actually in the building
 
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This is a false narrative. Not defending him as his record has not been good, but let's be honest. Nearly every team has to rebuild every year. If you don't it means you're players are probably not very good. All the good players leave early for the draft, and now we have the transfer portal. Players are leaving everywhere to go someplace else for whatever reason. It is rampant. To single this program out is not legitimate and unfair.
 
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midline said:
All you say is factual. But here is the other side of the coin, especially since things will be back to normal this year. The place will be like a tomb from an attendance standpoint. We all have been in that building when it was shamefully embarrassing. It might be worse this year as apathy set in a year, or two, ago. Now Ray and the BOT sent another very strong message to the fan base that winning is not a top priority at USC. One would think that a new coach would bring some hope, some enthusiasm, back to the program. One has to figure that much greater numbers would show up just to support the change. Why is there a reason to go to the arena when the fan base knows they are trying harder than the university itself. There should be some prize for the person that can come the closest to naming the number of the lowest attended game next year. There might be a couple dogs on that schedule, around the holidays, where the don't scratch four digits in folks actually in the building
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I agree but I’ve given up on the current powers that be in Cola. They care nothing about the fans or our school’s sports reputation. The proof is in the pudding, you encourage what you accept. The AD accepts mediocrity from the coaches, that’s the bottom line.
 
JamesRob said:
I agree but I’ve given up on the current powers that be in Cola. They care nothing about the fans or our school’s sports reputation. The proof is in the pudding, you encourage what you accept. The AD accepts mediocrity from the coaches, that’s the bottom line.
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Not to single you out but at least you can discuss things without getting all fussy.....

How do we know the AD accepts it? What power does he really have? Does he have any discretion at all or is he merely a manager of facilities and money while others retain all of the authority?
 
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RileyCock said:
Not to single you out but at least you can discuss things without getting all fussy.....

How do we know the AD accepts it? What power does he really have? Does he have any discretion at all or is he merely a manager of facilities and money while others retain all of the authority?
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No one was going to make a move this year after the legislature questioned the University's request for funding of the Medical school in the wake of Muschamp's firing. Just wasn't going to happen from the top down.
 
RileyCock said:
Not to single you out but at least you can discuss things without getting all fussy.....

How do we know the AD accepts it? What power does he really have? Does he have any discretion at all or is he merely a manager of facilities and money while others retain all of the authority?
Click to expand...

I don’t pretend to know all the inner workings. I just know the status quo isn’t producing results in the revenue generating sports.

We hired 2 football coaches that no one wanted. Muschamp was like the plague after UF and little Shane couldn’t get the ODU job. Now we have a basketball head coach that no one else would touch.

I like Kingston but the jury is out on him. Baseball is the one men’s sport we should be elite, but we haven’t been since Ray Ray went upstairs.
 
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JamesRob said:
I don’t pretend to know all the inner workings. I just know the status quo isn’t producing results in the revenue generating sports.

We hired 2 football coaches that no one wanted. Muschamp was like the plague after UF and little Shane couldn’t get the ODU job. Now we have a basketball head coach that no one else would touch.

I like Kingston but the jury is out on him. Baseball is the one men’s sport we should be elite, but we haven’t been since Ray Ray went upstairs.
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I can understand the sentiment. I'm just not sure how much authority Tanner has over any coaching contracts, hiring or firing except for Baseball.
 
RileyCock said:
I can understand the sentiment. I'm just not sure how much authority Tanner has over any coaching contracts, hiring or firing except for Baseball.
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Only with respect to the last football coaching hire. Outside influence resulted in a "committee" "search" and hiring.
 
rogue cock said:
Only with respect to the last football coaching hire. Outside influence resulted in a "committee" "search" and hiring.
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It's an interesting proposition. If the South Carolina AD is merely a manager and not an all powerful Athletics Commissioner then judging him on hires and fires is a waste of time because the next guy/gal won't have any authority, either.
 
RileyCock said:
It's an interesting proposition. If the South Carolina AD is merely a manager and not an all powerful Athletics Commissioner then judging him on hires and fires is a waste of time because the next guy/gal won't have any authority, either.
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Those higher up the food chain always win.
 
JGH 35 said:
This is a false narrative. Not defending him as his record has not been good, but let's be honest. Nearly every team has to rebuild every year. If you don't it means you're players are probably not very good. All the good players leave early for the draft, and now we have the transfer portal. Players are leaving everywhere to go someplace else for whatever reason. It is rampant. To single this program out is not legitimate and unfair.
Click to expand...

Winners reload. See Staley, Dawn.

Losers make excuses, incessantly.

They then try and buy more time to cash more checks by promising change and spinning yarns of suddenly knowing how to correct things.

The coaching epiphany.

The really savvy ones even try to butter up the flock by taking “responsibility.”

Frank got his contract and is entitled to it. I don’t blame him for not stepping down. But, for a guy that likes to pontificate on accountability so much, his words ring pretty hollow.

I’m for him still being here. The alternative was Magoo hiring a basketball coach. Good lawd.

No reason to flush $6M on top of the fleecing we got in football and make another “inspired” coaching hire to cement the legacy.

His whole approach and our style needs to change. So, I hope he is changing things.

To not see that is incredibly blissful.
 
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GMCCK97nHTWN said:
Winners reload. See Staley, Dawn.

Losers make excuses, incessantly.

They then try and buy more time to cash more checks by promising change and spinning yarns of suddenly knowing how to correct things.

The coaching epiphany.

The really savvy ones even try to butter up the flock by taking “responsibility.”

Frank got his contract and is entitled to it. I don’t blame him for not stepping down. But, for a guy that likes to pontificate on accountability so much, his words ring pretty hollow.

I’m for him still being here. The alternative was Magoo hiring a basketball coach. Good lawd.

No reason to flush $6M on top of the fleecing we got in football and make another “inspired” coaching hire to cement the legacy.

His whole approach and our style needs to change. So, I hope he is changing things.

To not see that is incredibly blissful.
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I don't believe Kentucky reloaded, did they? They had a losing season this year, the first one since 1989. It doesn't appear that Duke reloaded either. They finished just above .500. Also, while they technically had a winning season, UNC wasn't particularly good either. Certainly not up to their normal standards. Then after receiving some heat, their coach resigned. These are the effect of early leaving and the transfer portal.

To try and compare WBB to Men's BB in this way is bogus. They aren't even close to being the same. Seldom do you see players leave early for the WNBA, and when they do it is generally after their Jr season after being in the program for 3 years. There is no such thing as one-and-done in WBB. Also, you see fewer players in WBB enter the portal.
 
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JGH 35 said:
I don't believe Kentucky reloaded, did they? They had a losing season this year, the first one since 1989. It doesn't appear that Duke reloaded either. They finished just above .500. Also, while they technically had a winning season, UNC wasn't particularly good either. Certainly not up to their normal standards. Then after receiving some heat, their coach resigned. These are the effect of early leaving and the transfer portal.

To try and compare WBB to Men's BB in this way is bogus. They aren't even close to being the same. Seldom do you see players leave early for the WNBA, and when they do it is generally after their Jr season after being in the program for 3 years. There is no such thing as one-and-done in WBB. Also, you see fewer players in WBB enter the portal.
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KY, UNC and UofSC.

One of these things is not like the other.

UofSC seldom has to worry about talent leaving early for the NBA so, in that regard, they are just like the women. Unfortunately. not in respective talent or the ability to reload with championship caliber talent.

As for the portal, Frank may as well have invented it.

His program has been a perpetual portal.
 
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JamesRob said:
I agree but I’ve given up on the current powers that be in Cola. They care nothing about the fans or our school’s sports reputation. The proof is in the pudding, you encourage what you accept. The AD accepts mediocrity from the coaches, that’s the bottom line.
Click to expand...
Last sentence = 1,000 true
 
RileyCock said:
Not to single you out but at least you can discuss things without getting all fussy.....

How do we know the AD accepts it? What power does he really have? Does he have any discretion at all or is he merely a manager of facilities and money while others retain all of the authority?
Click to expand...
Last sentence = more excuse making for a mediocre AD
 
Pretty silly to blame Ray for this one.
Wanna be mad. Be mad at Alex English, the Mayor, State Senator, even Dawn Staley. All went out of their way to say Frank MUST stay another year. Frank's political buddies played dirty to help ensure he'd get another year. Welcome to the politics of USC!
 
cock enforcer said:
Pretty silly to blame Ray for this one.
Wanna be mad. Be mad at Alex English, the Mayor, State Senator, even Dawn Staley. All went out of their way to say Frank MUST stay another year. Frank's political buddies played dirty to help ensure he'd get another year. Welcome to the politics of USC!
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I dont totally disagree with you but political pressure only works if the University Pres and AD give in to it.
 
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GMCCK97nHTWN said:
Winners reload. See Staley, Dawn.

Losers make excuses, incessantly.

They then try and buy more time to cash more checks by promising change and spinning yarns of suddenly knowing how to correct things.

The coaching epiphany.

The really savvy ones even try to butter up the flock by taking “responsibility.”

Frank got his contract and is entitled to it. I don’t blame him for not stepping down. But, for a guy that likes to pontificate on accountability so much, his words ring pretty hollow.

I’m for him still being here. The alternative was Magoo hiring a basketball coach. Good lawd.

No reason to flush $6M on top of the fleecing we got in football and make another “inspired” coaching hire to cement the legacy.

His whole approach and our style needs to change. So, I hope he is changing things.

To not see that is incredibly blissful.
Click to expand...
I just hope he doesn't do some illegal recruiting, get us put on probation, then leave at the end of the season. Payback is hell.
 
cock enforcer said:
Pretty silly to blame Ray for this one.
Wanna be mad. Be mad at Alex English, the Mayor, State Senator, even Dawn Staley. All went out of their way to say Frank MUST stay another year. Frank's political buddies played dirty to help ensure he'd get another year. Welcome to the politics of USC!
Click to expand...
While true, this highlights what I've been saying for months: If Ray doesn't have the authority to hire and fire coaches, then he's a completely ineffective AD.

Our last AD and President were strong and effective leaders that knew how to navigate the self-important personalities and egos of the BOT and representatives.

Unfortunately, the BOT has shown in hiring their replacements that they don't want that. They want yes men. Or at the very least, men that will shut up and stand down when told.
 
USC2USC said:
Last sentence = more excuse making for a mediocre AD
Click to expand...

How is that an excuse? He either has authority or not. Being an AD does not automatically allow you to hire and fire coaches. You have to be given the authority. Do you have proof about the scope of Tanner's powers? Fire Tanner today and things may not change if the new AD is also powerless in regards to the stuff that's making you the most mad.

Agent speaks about hiring process
 
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Legendary Cock said:
While true, this highlights what I've been saying for months: If Ray doesn't have the authority to hire and fire coaches, then he's a completely ineffective AD.

Our last AD and President were strong and effective leaders that knew how to navigate the self-important personalities and egos of the BOT and representatives.

Unfortunately, the BOT has shown in hiring their replacements that they don't want that. They want yes men. Or at the very least, men that will shut up and stand down when told.
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Partially true and partially not true. Palms and Pastides both had a good relationship with the BOT and both had the strength to leave the AD to do what the AD does. As far as AD, Hyman and Tanner each have their own strengths and weaknesses. Neither were particular great at hiring and firing coaches. Hyman was great at planning, Tanner is great at putting those plans into effect.

Caslen's narrow selection as President didn't really give him much authority and he weakened what little he had by a few unforced errors. And he either wanted to get involved in the AD's responsibilites or he didn't have the credibility or interpersonal skills to stop it.

Regardless, after some in the legislature were going to make a big deal about our University's funding request for the medical school and the buyout of Muschamp (which are totally unrelated), neither our BOT or our President were going to approve any other buyout for any coach. Any proposal would be DOA. It's politics at it's worst and it's what we have to deal with.
 
Rebuilding is more common in men's college basketball than any other sport. Kentucky and Duke have become mediocre in the NCAA tournament because of it and COVID. It will be interesting to see if they bounce back after vaccinations.
 
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GMCCK97nHTWN said:
KY, UNC and UofSC.

One of these things is not like the other.

UofSC seldom has to worry about talent leaving early for the NBA so, in that regard, they are just like the women. Unfortunately. not in respective talent or the ability to reload with championship caliber talent.

As for the portal, Frank may as well have invented it.

His program has been a perpetual portal.
Click to expand...
Actually, in terms of success this year they are all in the same boat along with Duke that you left out.
 
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