Frank Martin's criticism of fan turn-out: fair or no?

[Jon Snow]

Coach wasn't impressed by the turn-out, stating there must have been a golf tournament or evaluation of 7th round offensive linemen in town that people prioritized higher.

I'm voting fair. No, I wasn't there. I know my reasons, and I'm sure plenty of other people have their own. But coach is justified in his frustration. For five years, he's built the program and fan interest to the point we actually had a good home court atmosphere. He's frustrated that coming right off a Final Four he sees empty seats and doesn't hear an enthusiastic fan-base at home. He knows that atmosphere is important to the continued progress of the program, both in terms of game day effect, and in recruiting.

To play devil's advocate to my own point: this isn't a team that is driving a lot of excitement into the fans right now. Losing Dozier and Felder hurts. Losing out on priority recruits hurts. (How does a guard from Irmo end up with Andy Kennedy in Ole Miss?) Fans don't have a lack of interest in the program. Fans are afraid. They are afraid to pour the emotions, time, and money into yet another Gamecock program that seemed to be moving in the right direction, only to watch them fall apart.

Still, I don't blame Frank. If I were him and doing what I could to build things, I'd be frustrated when the fans disappeared at this juncture.

 

[Judson1]

Women’s attendance still good?
Gonna take some time. If they had some stars or great play so far the crowd would be there.

 

[robertfootball]

Unless it's a big name we are playing or the Clemson game, our attendance is never that strong until after football is completely over.

 

[bosoxcock]

Coach wasn't impressed by the turn-out, stating there must have been a golf tournament or evaluation of 7th round offensive linemen in town that people prioritized higher.

I'm voting fair. No, I wasn't there. I know my reasons, and I'm sure plenty of other people have their own. But coach is justified in his frustration. For five years, he's built the program and fan interest to the point we actually had a good home court atmosphere. He's frustrated that coming right off a Final Four he sees empty seats and doesn't hear an enthusiastic fan-base at home. He knows that atmosphere is important to the continued progress of the program, both in terms of game day effect, and in recruiting.

To play devil's advocate to my own point: this isn't a team that is driving a lot of excitement into the fans right now. Losing Dozier and Felder hurts. Losing out on priority recruits hurts. (How does a guard from Irmo end up with Andy Kennedy in Ole Miss?) Fans don't have a lack of interest in the program. Fans are afraid. They are afraid to pour the emotions, time, and money into yet another Gamecock program that seemed to be moving in the right direction, only to watch them fall apart.

Still, I don't blame Frank. If I were him and doing what I could to build things, I'd be frustrated when the fans disappeared at this juncture.

I feel sure if Frank Martin was still at K St and they were coming of a long road trip, played only 1 home game, went to the final four last year and had a 5-2 record this year, K St arena would've had more fans in the stands than Saturday at SC

 

[Bigger_Stronger_Faster]

Well, football season isn't over. I know he doesn't like it but football is still #1 even if USC isn't playing.

And the last thing he needs to be doing is dissing fans.
He needs to focus on winning. If he wins people will get behind the team.

 

[bosoxcock]

Well, football season isn't over. I know he doesn't like it but football is still #1 even if USC isn't playing.

And the last thing he needs to be doing is dissing fans.
He needs to focus on winning. If he wins people will get behind the team.

There's enough basketball fans in Columbia to put at least 12,000-15000 in the arena on a Saturday afternoon in Dec.

It must've bothered Martin to mention it, SC fans better support this guy and his team and keep him happy

 

[Bigger_Stronger_Faster]

There's enough basketball fans in Columbia to put at least 12,000-15000 in the arena on a Saturday afternoon in Dec.

It must've bothered Martin to mention it, SC fans better support this guy and his team and keep him happy

So what was the student section like? I imagine there were plenty of students in attendance. If not then he is right to mention it.
But as far as other fans how is this season any different than any other, or our fans different from other teams? Football, the holidays and an uninteresting ooc opponent usual leads to low turnout this time of year.

You would think a coach with FM's experience knows this and would expect it.

And jftr, FM hasn't totally endeared himself to the entire fan base.

 

[midline]

Understand his rant, but in fact Frank should maybe look at a calendar and see what else might be going on before he takes a swipe at the fan base. And tha is a fan base that has supported a mostly mediocre run until the team found lightening in a bottle at the end of last year. And am sure there would be much more enthusiasm if all this guys were back, or if there was incoming talent to replace it. That isn't the case. So let's see, first Saturday in December. Lots of the wives shopping for Christmas. High School games going on at W-B. And you have a full slate of championship games on TV running from noon to midnight. And to top it all off the opponent is that traditional national power of UMass. Frank made a mistake in scheduling here and shouldn't blame the fans. After all he admitted yesterday that he has done an awful job and this was the softest team he has ever coached. So why should going to see his team play a mediocre program outrank any other activities folks may want to do?

 

[VirgilCaine]

It's early in the season, things will obviously pick up when conference play begins. It's hard to get into some of these early games, speaking for me personally. Someone alluded to this earlier, but having a bigtime freshman recruit like a Zion Williams would help generate some early excitement.

 

[bosoxcock]

So what was the student section like? I imagine there were plenty of students in attendance. If not then he is right to mention it.
But as far as other fans how is this season any different than any other, or our fans different from other teams? Football, the holidays and an uninteresting ooc opponent usual leads to low turnout this time of year.

You would think a coach with FM's experience knows this and would expect it.

And jftr, FM hasn't totally endeared himself to the entire fan base.

well "how is this season any different than any other,"

its different because SC did something the school has never done, it went to the final four last season, and has only played 1 game at home since the final four
sure its different players, but that attendance was bad

 

[Bigger_Stronger_Faster]

well "how is this season any different than any other,"

its different because SC did something the school has never done, it went to the final four last season, and has only played 1 game at home since the final four
sure its different players, but that attendance was bad

Let me guess...you were there, amirite???

 

[bosoxcock]

Let me guess...you were there, amirite???

no

 

[king ward]

well "how is this season any different than any other,"

its different because SC did something the school has never done, it went to the final four last season, and has only played 1 game at home since the final four
sure its different players, but that attendance was bad

The people have already deduced the truth about this particular team. And, like it or not, basketball doesn't enjoy the same buzz here now as it did during the end of the ACC era. That's just the fact. We filled the old coliseum for Erskine back then. I know because I was there.

 

[_NOVA_]

Had 10,000 reported tickets sold. Would be a sellout at Clemson. All a mater of perspective.

 

[Cockish]

Coach wasn't impressed by the turn-out, stating there must have been a golf tournament or evaluation of 7th round offensive linemen in town that people prioritized higher.

I'm voting fair. No, I wasn't there. I know my reasons, and I'm sure plenty of other people have their own. But coach is justified in his frustration. For five years, he's built the program and fan interest to the point we actually had a good home court atmosphere. He's frustrated that coming right off a Final Four he sees empty seats and doesn't hear an enthusiastic fan-base at home. He knows that atmosphere is important to the continued progress of the program, both in terms of game day effect, and in recruiting.

To play devil's advocate to my own point: this isn't a team that is driving a lot of excitement into the fans right now. Losing Dozier and Felder hurts. Losing out on priority recruits hurts. (How does a guard from Irmo end up with Andy Kennedy in Ole Miss?) Fans don't have a lack of interest in the program. Fans are afraid. They are afraid to pour the emotions, time, and money into yet another Gamecock program that seemed to be moving in the right direction, only to watch them fall apart.

Still, I don't blame Frank. If I were him and doing what I could to build things, I'd be frustrated when the fans disappeared at this juncture.

Perhaps fans' morale is low because Clempson owns us in football for the past four seasons with no end in sight for the foreseable future. Success in football is the catalyst for generating butts in seats for other sporting events. Not sure if our AD's office and BOT realize that it's football or bust like the boys from pickens do.

 

[Kitchenlabs]

Ask Chad Holbrook how well it works to call out your fanbase!

 

[robertfootball]

Ask Chad Holbrook how well it works to call out your fanbase!

Does anyone else besides me find it weird that our fans have been called out by two seperate coaches? I never thought we had a fan problem around here. If anything I think we are way too patient. So what's with coaches attacking the fans all of a sudden?

 

[uscclassof74]

Coach's time might be better spent teaching his team how to make free throws and layups.

 

[WorldTraveler]

The people have already deduced the truth about this particular team. And, like it or not, basketball doesn't enjoy the same buzz here now as it did during the end of the ACC era. That's just the fact. We filled the old coliseum for Erskine back then. I know because I was there.

I was there as well and remember how basketball crazy fans were then. Leaving the ACC killed that fan enthusiasm as we had great rivalries with those Tobacco Road teams.

 

[pepsicock]

I was at the game . I am on Frank Martin side %100 . Here is a tip for Frank. Don't schedule a Saturday basketball game on a day when Championship Conferences football games are all over TV .

 

[Uncle Money]

How was he wrong? I was at the Women's Game today, special Star Wars promotion game against Duke (top15)...and that arena was no where near full. Can't imagine how bad it was yesterday against UMass. Yes, it should improve after the holidays but the student section was especially sad. He's right in his assessment and it needs fixed.

 

[cockhornleghorn]

There should have been more people at the game yesterday; Frank was right.

 

[king ward]

I was there as well and remember how basketball crazy fans were then. Leaving the ACC killed that fan enthusiasm as we had great rivalries with those Tobacco Road teams.

Younger people now just don't realize. And if any of those teams had done what last year's team did, the impact around here would have been seismic.

 

[king ward]

There should have been more people at the game yesterday; Frank was right.

You're a basketball man. Why do we lack fan support in the pre-conference part of the season, other than when playing UPC? How do we do what we did last year and not have more carry-over enthusiasm? Why was basketball hysteria in Columbia greater in the early 1970s than it is now?

 

[jsusc]

I agree, coach Martin. If I were you, I would leave after this season for greener pastures.

 

[gamecockengineer2011]

You're a basketball man. Why do we lack fan support in the pre-conference part of the season, other than when playing UPC? How do we do what we did last year and not have more carry-over enthusiasm? Why was basketball hysteria in Columbia greater in the early 1970s than it is now?

Three reasons:

1. No stars on the team, Frank can blame himself for striking out on so many prospects even after he started getting the program back to a respectable level.
2. Team is projected to not be very good this year and have already suffered bad losses to Illinois State and Temple, Frank can again blame himself for not having the team prepared
3. The out of conference schedule sucks. Who gives a crap about seeing UMass? What happened to games like Michigan, Iowa State, Syracuse, or Baylor? Frank can blame himself, he does the schedule.

Im a huge Frank Martin fan and Im grateful he's here, but I dont appreciate him stirring the pot like that in the media. It never goes well for the coach. Want butts in the seats? Get some players on the team people can be excited about and WIN.

 

[HI Cock]

Coach wasn't impressed by the turn-out, stating there must have been a golf tournament or evaluation of 7th round offensive linemen in town that people prioritized higher.

I'm voting fair. No, I wasn't there. I know my reasons, and I'm sure plenty of other people have their own. But coach is justified in his frustration. For five years, he's built the program and fan interest to the point we actually had a good home court atmosphere. He's frustrated that coming right off a Final Four he sees empty seats and doesn't hear an enthusiastic fan-base at home. He knows that atmosphere is important to the continued progress of the program, both in terms of game day effect, and in recruiting.

To play devil's advocate to my own point: this isn't a team that is driving a lot of excitement into the fans right now. Losing Dozier and Felder hurts. Losing out on priority recruits hurts. (How does a guard from Irmo end up with Andy Kennedy in Ole Miss?) Fans don't have a lack of interest in the program. Fans are afraid. They are afraid to pour the emotions, time, and money into yet another Gamecock program that seemed to be moving in the right direction, only to watch them fall apart.

Still, I don't blame Frank. If I were him and doing what I could to build things, I'd be frustrated when the fans disappeared at this juncture.

Agree with you here. Fans are short attention span these days. So are kids. Frank's program is all bout building, teaching, learning, and then when you're a senior, you shine. Doesn't pull in blue chip recruits and requires that you have a deep bench all the time. We've had the players, but we've had so many kids suspended and dismissed it's really hurt the overall philosophy.

 

[king ward]

Three reasons:

1. No stars on the team, Frank can blame himself for striking out on so many prospects even after he started getting the program back to a respectable level.
2. Team is projected to not be very good this year and have already suffered bad losses to Illinois State and Temple, Frank can again blame himself for not having the team prepared
3. The out of conference schedule sucks. Who gives a crap about seeing UMass? What happened to games like Michigan, Iowa State, Syracuse, or Baylor? Frank can blame himself, he does the schedule.

Im a huge Frank Martin fan and Im grateful he's here, but I dont appreciate him stirring the pot like that in the media. It never goes well for the coach. Want butts in the seats? Get some players on the team people can be excited about and WIN.

I don't see how anyone can be satisfied with the recruiting under Martin. For every Thornwell or Dozier we have brought in 10 Mid-major caliber players, it seems to me. We're not Dancin' in Year Six.

 

[HI Cock]

You're a basketball man. Why do we lack fan support in the pre-conference part of the season, other than when playing UPC? How do we do what we did last year and not have more carry-over enthusiasm? Why was basketball hysteria in Columbia greater in the early 1970s than it is now?

Were there fewer games in the 1970's? Was there this long pre-conference season where we play a bunch of "tune-up" games? I don't know. I was a kid in the '70s and cared more about BMX than basketball. Didn't go to my first game until the '80s.

 

[king ward]

Agree with you here. Fans are short attention span these days. So are kids. Frank's program is all bout building, teaching, learning, and then when you're a senior, you shine. Doesn't pull in blue chip recruits and requires that you have a deep bench all the time. We've had the players, but we've had so many kids suspended and dismissed it's really hurt the overall philosophy.

Very good point and it crossed my mind as I wrote the previous post. Too much unscheduled attrition due to disciplinary issues. I don't blame Frank for doing what he needed to do, just saying we can't afford it. We need to aim higher on the character side.

 

[king ward]

Were there fewer games in the 1970's? Was there this long pre-conference season where we play a bunch of "tune-up" games? I don't know. I was a kid in the '70s and cared more about BMX than basketball. Didn't go to my first game until the '80s.

To win the National Championship and go undefeated, you were looking at 30-0 or 31-0.

 

[67gamecock]

Perhaps fans' morale is low because Clempson owns us in football for the past four seasons with no end in sight for the foreseable future. Success in football is the catalyst for generating butts in seats for other sporting events. Not sure if our AD's office and BOT realize that it's football or bust like the boys from pickens do.

To be honest about it the BOT, Prez, AD, et al are very much into the 'Olympic Sports' and imo it spreads the dedication too thinly, thus we're not where we need to be (right now) in football. This is not California, UCLA to be precise. We need to concentrate more on football imo.

 

[cockhornleghorn]

You're a basketball man. Why do we lack fan support in the pre-conference part of the season, other than when playing UPC? How do we do what we did last year and not have more carry-over enthusiasm? Why was basketball hysteria in Columbia greater in the early 1970s than it is now?

We had intense rivalries in the late 60's and early 70's, which we don't have now. Also, every game is on TV and people have HD TVs at home. I love going to basketball games so I'd rather be there than watch at home. That said, we had about 10,000 fans at MSG for the game against Florida. That's a pretty darn good crowd 700 miles from home. It helped that we have a lot of alumni in Greater New York. We will have to win for several years in a row before we have consistently bigger crowds. North Carolina's last home game was against Michigan and it was well short of a sell out. I think we will have good crowds for conference games this season.

 

[lostcock]

We have the most loyal fans in college sports no matter what, many opponents have noted it, few will ever understand it. I think, however, those days are somewhat disappearing, and there’s nothing wrong with that. Many events are pricing many of the most loyal(s) out, and calling fans out won’t work. That and the numerous fans that have problems with several facets of the Ath Dept can’t all be wrong

 

[king ward]

To be honest about it the BOT, Prez, AD, et al are very much into the 'Olympic Sports' and imo it spreads the dedication too thinly, thus we're not where we need to be (right now) in football. This is not California, UCLA to be precise. We need to concentrate more on football imo.

Football and basketball - The Big Two. Always have been; always will be; always should be.

 

[67gamecock]

Football and basketball - The Big Two. Always have been; always will be; always should be.

I agree basketball is very important to the athletic program, but it is football that draws those mammoth crowds into W-B on Fall Saturdays AND pays most of the AD's bills. We have GOT to get better in football . . VERY soon.

 

[king ward]

I agree basketball is very important to the athletic program, but it is football that draws those mammoth crowds into W-B on Fall Saturdays AND pays most of the AD's bills. We have GOT to get better in football . . VERY soon.

Football is King, but basketball is Crown Prince.

 

[Bongsummers]

Coach wasn't impressed by the turn-out, stating there must have been a golf tournament or evaluation of 7th round offensive linemen in town that people prioritized higher.

I'm voting fair. No, I wasn't there. I know my reasons, and I'm sure plenty of other people have their own. But coach is justified in his frustration. For five years, he's built the program and fan interest to the point we actually had a good home court atmosphere. He's frustrated that coming right off a Final Four he sees empty seats and doesn't hear an enthusiastic fan-base at home. He knows that atmosphere is important to the continued progress of the program, both in terms of game day effect, and in recruiting.

To play devil's advocate to my own point: this isn't a team that is driving a lot of excitement into the fans right now. Losing Dozier and Felder hurts. Losing out on priority recruits hurts. (How does a guard from Irmo end up with Andy Kennedy in Ole Miss?) Fans don't have a lack of interest in the program. Fans are afraid. They are afraid to pour the emotions, time, and money into yet another Gamecock program that seemed to be moving in the right direction, only to watch them fall apart.

Still, I don't blame Frank. If I were him and doing what I could to build things, I'd be frustrated when the fans disappeared at this juncture.

Fair.

That said, he needs to beat Clemson.

 

[ansoncock]

You're a basketball man. Why do we lack fan support in the pre-conference part of the season, other than when playing UPC? How do we do what we did last year and not have more carry-over enthusiasm? Why was basketball hysteria in Columbia greater in the early 1970s than it is now?

In the early 70s, there was basketball hysteria in SC. That is for sure. Most young folks don't know what we are talking about.

Any starting player of one of the Gamecocks teams during that era, would have been instantly recognized anywhere in the state.

 

[VirgilCaine]

How was he wrong? I was at the Women's Game today, special Star Wars promotion game against Duke (top15)...and that arena was no where near full. Can't imagine how bad it was yesterday against UMass. Yes, it should improve after the holidays but the student section was especially sad. He's right in his assessment and it needs fixed.

It's no big mystery, like it or not, it's still college football season in SC. It was championship Saturday, all "fixing" the problem requires is winning. Next March or April , if we happen to be in a final four game during the Spring game or in a big SEC baseball series, guess what, we'll have a poor turn out for the Garnett and Black game. This doesn’t mean we have a fan problem.