Frank

[garnet4me]

Frank Martin is not going to turn us into a winner.
I hope he leaves soon. The KSU fans said his offenses would be painful to watch, and they are.
We will not win under this staff. I bet he stays next year, and then he's gone. I wish he would leave now.
Next year will not be much different.

 

[dcdayday]

This team should gget better with the addition of P.J. and Silva. The fans are forgetting about Injury to Temarcus Blanton and Sheppard. If we had those guys today we win this game.

 

[uscbeckham]

Originally posted by garnet4me:
Frank Martin is not going to turn us into a winner.
I hope he leaves soon. The KSU fans said his offenses would be painful to watch, and they are.
We will not win under this staff. I bet he stays next year, and then he's gone. I wish he would leave now.
Next year will not be much different.

It's not really the ball movement that hurts the offense. Guys are getting open. They just can't shoot.

Also, there is not one player on this team that takes a leadership role on the court. Not one.

 

[wbit]

and if our Aunts had you know whats they would be our Uncles!! Wishes and Butts-Candy and Nutts

 

[AgnosticTrollCock]

Originally posted by dcdayday:
This team should gget better with the addition of P.J. and Silva. The fans are forgetting about Injury to Temarcus Blanton and Sheppard. If we had those guys today we win this game.

So, this team would win with the addition of two unproven freshmen? What in Martin's coaching and player development would ever indicate that? Thornwell and Notice have regressed, Carrera is still out of control, the Lithuanians are just bad, and Henry hasn't done anything.

 

[hobcawcreekcock]

Originally posted by AgnosticTrollCock:

Originally posted by dcdayday:
This team should gget better with the addition of P.J. and Silva. The fans are forgetting about Injury to Temarcus Blanton and Sheppard. If we had those guys today we win this game.

So, this team would win with the addition of two unproven freshmen? What in Martin's coaching and player development would ever indicate that? Thornwell and Notice have regressed, Carrera is still out of control, the Lithuanians are just bad, and Henry hasn't done anything.

Other than these facts, we're pretty good

 

[Rollerdude123]

true and it is stunning to me how those 2 haven't played better with their experience

both of them have played a lot of SEC basketball at this point in their career.

Originally posted by AgnosticTrollCock:

So, this team would win with the addition of two unproven freshmen? What in Martin's coaching and player development would ever indicate that? Thornwell and Notice have regressed, Carrera is still out of control, the Lithuanians are just bad, and Henry hasn't done anything.

 

[1vagamecock]

He is no better than Horn.

 

[uscfan1981]

Originally posted by 1vagamecock:
He is no better than Horn.

He is better than Horn. I don't think he will win here but he is not that bad.

 

[sc's finest]

better than horn? i see no difference between the two right now and its sad because i want a winning basketball team

 

[chick75]

Funny, but I hope you leave first. No need for this.**

GOCOCKS! BEATUCONN! BEATMIZZOU!

 

[cockynSC66]

Fair weather fans. Martin will have us near the top of the SEC when Seventh Woods gets here.

 

[stevestrat2]

Originally posted by cockynSC66:
Fair weather fans. Martin will have us near the top of the SEC when Seventh Woods gets here.

Bring me up to speed- has Seventh Woods indicated we are his favorite?....I seriously do not know. Thx.

 

[yeasos]

We need players like Woods and Dozier, an angry big man and some shooters, but right now we don't have it.

 

[GamecockWarrior]

Originally posted by garnet4me:
Frank Martin is not going to turn us into a winner.
I hope he leaves soon.

I hope you leave soon.

 

[_NOVA_]

Frank is your typical make the players fit his scheme type coach. He learned the three guard motion offense and that's all he'll run as his primary. Frank's not a scheme for the players you have type coach. That would require on the fly adjustments and becoming an expert on different sets and hybrid schemes.

If you listen to any number of coach K interviews, he'll talk about how he comes up with sets and schemes to fit his players and he's constantly adjusting. It's when he figured out that you just don't fit all players into one scheme that he became a much better coach.

All offenses work if they are run correctly. The trick is coaching it right and finding the correct sets for your talent. Martin has spent an entire career never leaving his coaching comfort zone. The results are predictable.

 

[pepsicock]

Frank needs 3 more years .

 

[Palmetto1984]

If you can't see Martin's teams are better than Horn's then you are prob just looking at record and/or points scored. Our offense is very bad but we still play good D and good effort overall. We actually run an offense where we get open looks, but unfortunately we do not have the players to finish. With Horn we just dribbled and passed around until the shot clock was under 5 and threw up some crap shot. If we had a couple of consistent scorers and/or shooters this would look like a very different team.

 

[dac#]

Originally posted by Palmetto1984:
If you can't see Martin's teams are better than Horn's then you are prob just looking at record and/or points scored. Our offense is very bad but we still play good D and good effort overall. We actually run an offense where we get open looks, but unfortunately we do not have the players to finish. With Horn we just dribbled and passed around until the shot clock was under 5 and threw up some crap shot. If we had a couple of consistent scorers and/or shooters this would look like a very different team.

I see what you are saying, but "record/points" are all that matters. Martin is similar to Horn as they both got one lucky wave over a short period of time and poof it all vanished. Martin has been a failure pure and simple, as his "i'll scare them into playing hard" hasn't resulted in squat other than on court embarrassments by both team and coach. This notion that Martin, or any coach for that matter, needs 3-4 years is proven false by coaches who make instant impacts because of their coaching and recruiting savvy. This isn't football where you have to fill 22+ positions. It's by far the easiest sport to turn around in a minimal amount of time. The question is, will we be lucky enough to find one?

 

[Palmetto1984]

Yes I agree building a basketball program is easier than building a football. In the long run yes wins and losses is all that matters, but in this case I disagree. It is unfair to have Martin come in and expect him to get 20+ wins and make the tourny. He has to first change the culture, attitude, work ethic, mindset or whatever you want to call it before the wins start coming. We are definitely a tougher team and I can see we have made progress since he has been here. South Carolina is not an easy place to build a program. We don't have much history or tradition. We don't have the best in state talent. It will take time for Martin to build the relationships etc for where these top players will want to stay in state and also begin to get out of state players to want to come here.

 

[gamecockengineer2011]

As unsuccessful of a product as our mens team is, it was clear Frank truely started from scratch when he got here and he needs time. The only two decent players left from Horn both transferred in Anthony Gill and Demontre Harris.

Frank's first two recruiting classes were basically a mass grab of warm bodies to fill the roster. These are the guys who play a majority of the minutes for our team as upper classmen. Chatkevicius, Kacinas, and Michael Carerra from the first class and Notice, Thornwell, and McKie in his second one. None of the guys from his first class were highly recruited and only Chatkevicius had any other offers which was Kansas State who he transferred his committment from to the Gamecocks. Demetrius Henry and Sindarius Thornwell were highly recruited guys that Martin was able to grab in his second class.

Since then Martin has started to recruit some really highly rated players. Marcus Stroman was a top 100 player, PJ Dozier is a Mcdonalds All American, and Chris Silva is also a top 100 player.

South Carolina is not a kentucky and cant recruit its way out of a disaster in one year. Martin has to build a foundation and add to it which I believe he has. While its hard to understand why Thornwell has regressed this year, there is no doubt the guy has a bunch of talent. And even though Frank is getting good talent in, the SEC has become a much tougher leauge than it was when he got here. This year the SEC is probably going to send 6-7 teams to the NCAA. Just a few years ago the SEC would get 3 teams.

Its going to take more time as Martin continues to upgrade the talent and get the guys to play together. You can see the progress in the effort and defensive statistic, but the offensive side just hasnt caught up yet. Hopefully that changes when we get a beast shooting guard in PJ Dozier and another big body presence in Silva.

 

[_NOVA_]

The Horn era and what's been the Frank Martin era so far aren't all that different. Horn never found an offensive system that fit his players and Martin is going through the same thing. Martin is a better defensive coach, but it's not enough of a difference to win games.

Horn inherited a good roster with Downey, Zam and Archie, but was left with little younger talent. It took him a cycle to get going in recruiting, but he brought in four stars in Bruce Ellington and Damontre Harris. Added another four star in Damien Leonard and a really good player in Gill. And then he was gone and some of those players took off, when he got axed.

Martin inherited a bad roster, but has since brought in four stars in Henry, Thornwell and Stroman-- and four star transfer Ty Johnson. He's got Dozier coming in. And he's picked up some other quality high school players.

So, on balance, I don't know that Martin has had a worst roster than Horn, other than Horn's first year. And Horn's first year was pretty good, relative to the rest of South Carolina's history.

Horn's fourth year became a disaster because he, his staff and his players knew it was make or break. And they all shrunk from that challenge. I expect something similar from Martin in year four, unless Dozier ends up being and out and out superstar.

 

[uscfan1981]

Originally posted by _NOVA_:
The Horn era and what's been the Frank Martin era so far aren't all that different. Horn never found an offensive system that fit his players and Martin is going through the same thing. Martin is a better defensive coach, but it's not enough of a difference to win games.

Horn inherited a good roster with Downey, Zam and Archie, but was left with little younger talent. It took him a cycle to get going in recruiting, but he brought in four stars in Bruce Ellington and Damontre Harris. Added another four star in Damien Leonard and a really good player in Gill. And then he was gone and some of those players took off, when he got axed.

Martin inherited a bad roster, but has since brought in four stars in Henry, Thornwell and Stroman-- and four star transfer Ty Johnson. He's got Dozier coming in. And he's picked up some other quality high school players.

So, on balance, I don't know that Martin has had a worst roster than Horn, other than Horn's first year. And Horn's first year was pretty good, relative to the rest of South Carolina's history.

Horn's fourth year became a disaster because he, his staff and his players knew it was make or break. And they all shrunk from that challenge. I expect something similar from Martin in year four, unless Dozier ends up being and out and out superstar.

a pretty good analysis.

 

[anon_n4c0cp5zhdxn7]

Originally posted by hobcawcreekcock:

Originally posted by AgnosticTrollCock:

Originally posted by dcdayday:
This team should gget better with the addition of P.J. and Silva. The fans are forgetting about Injury to Temarcus Blanton and Sheppard. If we had those guys today we win this game.

So, this team would win with the addition of two unproven freshmen? What in Martin's coaching and player development would ever indicate that? Thornwell and Notice have regressed, Carrera is still out of control, the Lithuanians are just bad, and Henry hasn't done anything.

Other than these facts, we're pretty good

I would have to disagree with these "facts". IMO, Notice and the Lithuanians have improved. I wouldn't say Thornwell has regress but he has gone through a slump.

The team looks much better than last year, moving the ball around and getting open shots. The shooting seems to be worse though. The also appear to be getting under the basket more than last year.

 

[ReadR00ster]

Martin is doing a good job. It's slow work trying get the right players to come to play for a school most don't want to. We should be thankful Martin is here trying because no amount of money we could offer would be enough to get most coaches to come coach here.

 

[ReadR00ster]

Originally posted by AgnosticTrollCock:

Originally posted by dcdayday:
This team should gget better with the addition of P.J. and Silva. The fans are forgetting about Injury to Temarcus Blanton and Sheppard. If we had those guys today we win this game.

So, this team would win with the addition of two unproven freshmen? What in Martin's coaching and player development would ever indicate that? Thornwell and Notice have regressed, Carrera is still out of control, the Lithuanians are just bad, and Henry hasn't done anything.

You do realize how many close games we lost, right? Yes the addition of some good freshman players and another year of experience under our belt will improve this team. Definitely. It's not going to be rapid improvment, because it's impossible, it's going to be slight improvement year to year that isn't going to be exactly obvious to many. If that is not good enough for you I suggest you stop watching. When Carerra and the Lithuanians graduate, our hope is that can be replaced with better players. IT doesn't seem that big of a challenge unless you want to bail on this coach and start from scratch all over again. I think this team is close to having a breakthrough it would suck is if we bailed right before it only after 3 years because the fans have no patience.

 

[ReadR00ster]

Originally posted by hobcawcreekcock:

Originally posted by AgnosticTrollCock:

Originally posted by dcdayday:
This team should gget better with the addition of P.J. and Silva. The fans are forgetting about Injury to Temarcus Blanton and Sheppard. If we had those guys today we win this game.

So, this team would win with the addition of two unproven freshmen? What in Martin's coaching and player development would ever indicate that? Thornwell and Notice have regressed, Carrera is still out of control, the Lithuanians are just bad, and Henry hasn't done anything.

Other than these facts, we're pretty good

Kacinas has improved every year and it's obvious. He is stronger in better overall shape, playing with more confidence, he hustles, he is making more shots. Henry is better than last year, he can at least make a jump shot and a free throw every now and again. Henry's free throw shot actually looks pretty decent coming out of his hand now. It's clear he has bee working hard on his shooting. Carrera has been the same the guy since he has been here. I don't know if the guy is capable of playing any other way the dude may not be coachable. Chatkevious had a big improvment last year and is about the same this year. There is only so much he can improve too because he is so slow. He's about hit his ceiling.

 

[_NOVA_]

Originally posted by ReadR00ster:
Martin is doing a good job. It's slow work trying get the right players to come to play for a school most don't want to. We should be thankful Martin is here trying because no amount of money we could offer would be enough to get most coaches to come coach here.

I don't agree with this thinking at all. Recently, South Carolina has attracted top tier coaching talent in almost every sport other than men's basketball. Men's basketball is just the one sport they haven't made the correct hire for yet. The facilities are there, the fan support is there (2007 showed top 25 attendance can easily be produced and the women are well supported) and the state is located where you can draw talent from a lot of different areas. Moreover, expectations are so low that all the next coach needs to do is win an NCAA tournament game in his first three seasons, and he'd likely be given a statue. The idea that Frank Martin is our last and only hope is ridiculous.

 

[ReadR00ster]

Originally posted by _NOVA_:

Originally posted by ReadR00ster:
Martin is doing a good job. It's slow work trying get the right players to come to play for a school most don't want to. We should be thankful Martin is here trying because no amount of money we could offer would be enough to get most coaches to come coach here.

I don't agree with this thinking at all. Recently, South Carolina has attracted top tier coaching talent in almost every sport other than men's basketball. Men's basketball is just the one sport they haven't made the correct hire for yet. The facilities are there, the fan support is there (2007 showed top 25 attendance can easily be produced and the women are well supported) and the state is located where you can draw talent from a lot of different areas. Moreover, expectations are so low that all the next coach needs to do is win an NCAA tournament game in his first three seasons, and he'd likely be given a statue. The idea that Frank Martin is our last and only hope is ridiculous.

I am for signing a big time coach and there are better one Martin out there. But if you think it is likely to get someone better here than you SERIOUSLY are underestimating the current and recent state our men's basketball program. I'm am talking BIG TIME underestimation of how bad it is. I don't know if Frank Martin is our only hope, but it he could be. And expectations? Everyone knows that the expectations change with the success and failures of the team. If you have a lot of recent success expectations are high. If you've been successful, the expectations are very high. If the team has been abysmal for a long time, you take whatever you can get. That is what we are dealing with.

 

[ReadR00ster]

Originally posted by sc's finest:
better than horn? i see no difference between the two right now and its sad because i want a winning basketball team

I see it, so. You must not know so much about basketball.

 

[_NOVA_]

Originally posted by ReadR00ster:

Originally posted by _NOVA_:

Originally posted by ReadR00ster:
Martin is doing a good job. It's slow work trying get the right players to come to play for a school most don't want to. We should be thankful Martin is here trying because no amount of money we could offer would be enough to get most coaches to come coach here.

I don't agree with this thinking at all. Recently, South Carolina has attracted top tier coaching talent in almost every sport other than men's basketball. Men's basketball is just the one sport they haven't made the correct hire for yet. The facilities are there, the fan support is there (2007 showed top 25 attendance can easily be produced and the women are well supported) and the state is located where you can draw talent from a lot of different areas. Moreover, expectations are so low that all the next coach needs to do is win an NCAA tournament game in his first three seasons, and he'd likely be given a statue. The idea that Frank Martin is our last and only hope is ridiculous.

I am for signing a big time coach and there are better one Martin out there. But if you think it is likely to get someone better here than you SERIOUSLY are underestimating the current and recent state our men's basketball program. I'm am talking BIG TIME underestimation of how bad it is. I don't know if Frank Martin is our only hope, but it he could be. And expectations? Everyone knows that the expectations change with the success and failures of the team. If you have a lot of recent success expectations are high. If you've been successful, the expectations are very high. If the team has been abysmal for a long time, you take whatever you can get. That is what we are dealing with.

You don't have to look any further than the three most recent hires to debunk the "no one wants to coach here, we should just be happy we have a coach ESPN will interview," logic.

Dave Odom went to 8 NCAA tournaments at Wake in 12 season. 11 post season appearances in total. Wake fans always wanted more-- to be Duke and UNC-- but plenty of schools would have loved to bring Odom in. Odom took Wake to as many NCAA tournaments as every other coach in their history, combined, to that point.

Horn was a reach, but he had a really strong rep as an assistant at Marquette. Had some really nice seasons at Western Kentucky and became a hot item with the NCAA sweet sixteen run. It was a classic play to grab the next great, young coach. Didn't work, but it wasn't like South Carolina was the only place trying to hire the guy.

Then we come to Martin. Grown from the Bob Huggins tree. Great connections from the high school coaching days in Florida. 4 NCAA tournaments in 5 years at K-State. Big time media personality. Clashed with K-State AD and fans, wanted to get out a build his own program.

Every single one of these last three hires were coaches with significant resumes, who had options in terms of their next career move. And you know what? The next South Carolina head coach will be exactly the same. If Martin goes, there will be 5 head coaching candidates ready to accept a similar offer. Tanner just has to find the correct guy.

 

[ToddFlanders]

Originally posted by _NOVA_:

Originally posted by ReadR00ster:

Originally posted by _NOVA_:

Originally posted by ReadR00ster:
Martin is doing a good job. It's slow work trying get the right players to come to play for a school most don't want to. We should be thankful Martin is here trying because no amount of money we could offer would be enough to get most coaches to come coach here.

I don't agree with this thinking at all. Recently, South Carolina has attracted top tier coaching talent in almost every sport other than men's basketball. Men's basketball is just the one sport they haven't made the correct hire for yet. The facilities are there, the fan support is there (2007 showed top 25 attendance can easily be produced and the women are well supported) and the state is located where you can draw talent from a lot of different areas. Moreover, expectations are so low that all the next coach needs to do is win an NCAA tournament game in his first three seasons, and he'd likely be given a statue. The idea that Frank Martin is our last and only hope is ridiculous.

I am for signing a big time coach and there are better one Martin out there. But if you think it is likely to get someone better here than you SERIOUSLY are underestimating the current and recent state our men's basketball program. I'm am talking BIG TIME underestimation of how bad it is. I don't know if Frank Martin is our only hope, but it he could be. And expectations? Everyone knows that the expectations change with the success and failures of the team. If you have a lot of recent success expectations are high. If you've been successful, the expectations are very high. If the team has been abysmal for a long time, you take whatever you can get. That is what we are dealing with.

You don't have to look any further than the three most recent hires to debunk the "no one wants to coach here, we should just be happy we have a coach ESPN will interview," logic.

Dave Odom went to 8 NCAA tournaments at Wake in 12 season. 11 post season appearances in total. Wake fans always wanted more-- to be Duke and UNC-- but plenty of schools would have loved to bring Odom in. Odom took Wake to as many NCAA tournaments as every other coach in their history, combined, to that point.

Horn was a reach, but he had a really strong rep as an assistant at Marquette. Had some really nice seasons at Western Kentucky and became a hot item with the NCAA sweet sixteen run. It was a classic play to grab the next great, young coach. Didn't work, but it wasn't like South Carolina was the only place trying to hire the guy.

Then we come to Martin. Grown from the Bob Huggins tree. Great connections from the high school coaching days in Florida. 4 NCAA tournaments in 5 years at K-State. Big time media personality. Clashed with K-State AD and fans, wanted to get out a build his own program.

Every single one of these last three hires were coaches with significant resumes, who had options in terms of their next career move. And you know what? The next South Carolina head coach will be exactly the same. If Martin goes, there will be 5 head coaching candidates ready to accept a similar offer. Tanner just has to find the correct guy.

USC has never been willing to shell out the dough to get a great coach and that's why we have the last three hires (three guys whose schools didn't want them anymore - cast offs if you will):

Odom was at the end of his career and really didn't have a lot of people knocking down his door (and as you mentioned, Wake fans wanted a change). I think he was a decent hire (in the way Lou Holtz was a decent hire). He brought the program back to respectability, but stuck around a couple of years too long. However, he was just a great name for the money.

Horn was a busted hire. Not because of what he accomplished at USC, but because before his flukey run in the tourney (barely beating two mid-majors in the first two rounds) he was on the hot seat at WKU. The fans and administrators wanted him gone because he was a loser - and everyone knew it. USC just couldn't bring in an elite coach and had to settle on a guy that they could "kind of" sell to the fans because he made the Sweet 16 (but the fans aren't blind and knew what was up).

Martin was a better hire, but he was the third coach in a row that USC hired, whose school didn't want him anymore. I think Martin is definitely the best of the three (and I think he is bringing USC out of the Horn mire), but when you have the success he had, and people still want you gone, there's an issue.

You aren't a "good basketball job" if you can only bring in coaches that are unwelcome at their current jobs. USC can, and will, become a power when they finally shell out the cash to lure a much-desired coach away from his thriving program.


This post was edited on 2/9 6:10 PM by ToddFlanders

 

[4thgengamecock]

Originally posted by ToddFlanders:

Originally posted by _NOVA_:

Originally posted by ReadR00ster:

Originally posted by _NOVA_:

Originally posted by ReadR00ster:
Martin is doing a good job. It's slow work trying get the right players to come to play for a school most don't want to. We should be thankful Martin is here trying because no amount of money we could offer would be enough to get most coaches to come coach here.

I don't agree with this thinking at all. Recently, South Carolina has attracted top tier coaching talent in almost every sport other than men's basketball. Men's basketball is just the one sport they haven't made the correct hire for yet. The facilities are there, the fan support is there (2007 showed top 25 attendance can easily be produced and the women are well supported) and the state is located where you can draw talent from a lot of different areas. Moreover, expectations are so low that all the next coach needs to do is win an NCAA tournament game in his first three seasons, and he'd likely be given a statue. The idea that Frank Martin is our last and only hope is ridiculous.

I am for signing a big time coach and there are better one Martin out there. But if you think it is likely to get someone better here than you SERIOUSLY are underestimating the current and recent state our men's basketball program. I'm am talking BIG TIME underestimation of how bad it is. I don't know if Frank Martin is our only hope, but it he could be. And expectations? Everyone knows that the expectations change with the success and failures of the team. If you have a lot of recent success expectations are high. If you've been successful, the expectations are very high. If the team has been abysmal for a long time, you take whatever you can get. That is what we are dealing with.

You don't have to look any further than the three most recent hires to debunk the "no one wants to coach here, we should just be happy we have a coach ESPN will interview," logic.

Dave Odom went to 8 NCAA tournaments at Wake in 12 season. 11 post season appearances in total. Wake fans always wanted more-- to be Duke and UNC-- but plenty of schools would have loved to bring Odom in. Odom took Wake to as many NCAA tournaments as every other coach in their history, combined, to that point.

Horn was a reach, but he had a really strong rep as an assistant at Marquette. Had some really nice seasons at Western Kentucky and became a hot item with the NCAA sweet sixteen run. It was a classic play to grab the next great, young coach. Didn't work, but it wasn't like South Carolina was the only place trying to hire the guy.

Then we come to Martin. Grown from the Bob Huggins tree. Great connections from the high school coaching days in Florida. 4 NCAA tournaments in 5 years at K-State. Big time media personality. Clashed with K-State AD and fans, wanted to get out a build his own program.

Every single one of these last three hires were coaches with significant resumes, who had options in terms of their next career move. And you know what? The next South Carolina head coach will be exactly the same. If Martin goes, there will be 5 head coaching candidates ready to accept a similar offer. Tanner just has to find the correct guy.

USC has never been willing to shell out the dough to get a great coach and that's why we have the last three hires (three guys whose schools didn't want them anymore - cast offs if you will):

Odom was at the end of his career and really didn't have a lot of people knocking down his door (and as you mentioned, Wake fans wanted a change). I think he was a decent hire (in the way Lou Holtz was a decent hire). He brought the program back to respectability, but stuck around a couple of years too long. However, he was just a great name for the money.

Horn was a busted hire. Not because of what he accomplished at USC, but because before his flukey run in the tourney (barely beating two mid-majors in the first two rounds) he was on the hot seat at WKU. The fans and administrators wanted him gone because he was a loser - and everyone knew it. USC just couldn't bring in an elite coach and had to settle on a guy that they could "kind of" sell to the fans because he made the Sweet 16 (but the fans aren't blind and knew what was up).

Martin was a better hire, but he was the third coach in a row that USC hired, whose school didn't want him anymore. I think Martin is definitely the best of the three (and I think he is bringing USC out of the Horn mire), but when you have the success he had, and people still want you gone, there's an issue.

You aren't a "good basketball job" if you can only bring in coaches that are unwelcome at their current jobs. USC can, and will, become a power when they finally shell out the cash to lure a much-desired coach away from his thriving program.


This post was edited on 2/9 6:10 PM by ToddFlanders

Correction: we shelled out major bucks to get Martin. And it's not like K-State didn't want Martin because he wasn't a winner--he just didn't get along with the AD. Evidently there was also a vocal group of fans that didn't like the yelling (we have some of those, too), but to say he was a loser coach that was on the hot-seat because of poor results just plain false.