Good thing we kept coaching staff to hold onto a top 5 recruiting class ...

[CapHillCock]

wait, what!?!??

We kept the brains behind that awesome defense in the fold and we had nearly double digit de-committments and are now ranked 19th in recruiting?-

Cue all the "recruiting doesn't matter" posts. Funny you only hear that argument from the schools that aren't ranked in the top 10. Please show me the last national championship team that won without having at least one top ten class in the fold. I will wait...

Fact is, recruiting matters.... that is how you get talent... Ohio State showed this year what happens when you stockpile talent- winning a title with their 3rd string QB. Oregon had the scheme but the Buckeyes clearly had the better athletes on both lines and even at the skill positions.

Another fact: with SC rankings the last few years the Gamecocks are not national title contenders.

That was a great 3 year run of 11 wins and got the team on the brink of elite status but this year was a bridge year- to show college football watchers the team could win without marquee stars like Clowney- I'd like to think that if it had been another 10 or 11 win season then SC would have remained in the top 10 recruiting this year and for years to come- the program was on the brink, people were taking notice, but the year could not have gone any worse if the footballs gods were all Clemson grads: all the losses, the way so many losses occurred with the late game implosions, the loss to rival, the coaches 2-3 year comment, the lost recruits. At least a bowl win was salvaged. But I don't think the likes of USA Today will have us pre-season top 5 any time soon.

The fact that 8 potential opponents SC could face are ranked ahead of the Gamecocks in this year's rankings does not bode well for the future.

Odds are the team will be a middle of the pack program- I know SC fans are some of the most loyal bunch out there- put even the Cubs fans to shame- but for a team that somehow managed to win 11 games 3 times in a row and still not win a single division title in that span, I don't see much more than a middle of the pack legacy for this program with a few double digit surprises sprinkled in from time to time.

 

[Gamecock Lifer]

I get that fans think we cost ourselves a top 5 class or something because we lost some recruits, but that is just flat out BS.

This class was ranked top 5 when the teams who are now ahead of us had not gotten commits from most of the best talent. Auburn's, UCLA, LSU, SO. CAL, UF, UGA, OHIO STATE.... All of these programs added major talent in the last few weeks/ HOURS of this recruiting cycle and likely would have passed us and bumped us down to about number 10-12 even if we kept EVERY SINGLE ONE of our decommits. There is not a huge difference in the grand scheme of things between a top 12 and the #18 class.., there just isn't.

This was a solid class, meeting all of our needs. People wanted changes on the defensive staff and WE HAVE CHANGES... Why is it necessary to pop off about the same idiotic nonsense a dozen other people have already made threads to cry about? What did you want our coaches to do... And why are you talking about national title contenders? When have we truly ever been in that contention? 1984? Did you really think this one class was ever set up to launch us into national title contention? If so.., well... You are a fool.

We have a ways to go yet.

 

[CapHillCock]

I agree with you Lifer ... except for the part where you call me a fool.

Sticking with your arguments and not your name calling: We are no where near a national title contender and based on our legacy we probably never will be- I don't recall saying in the OP that this one class would make or break our title chances- it is just one more fact item that we are not a member of the nation's elite. I think a lot of fans- me for one- really had high expectations that we were knocking on that elite door after the last 3 years and this season was a huge letdown and reality dose for who were were and who we will likely remain to be as a college football program.

You are right that there is not much difference between being ranked 12-18 or so- but getting into that top 10 and staying there would be huge.

My expectations now are that SC will be competitive and consistently finish in the middle of the east, somewhere between 3rd and 4th. And a couple of years every decade or two we might go on an amazing run- it is just a crying shame that on our last 11-win season run we could not even win a division title- a huge wasted opportunity for program brand building. I guess we have managed one impressive run every 15 years or so (1984, the Holtz Outback Bowl years and 2011-2013). And I am convinced that- based on a 100 plus years of history - a fan is delusional if they pull for SC hoping we are annual contenders.

This post was edited on 2/4 11:36 PM by CapHillCock

 

[Garnet Man]

Originally posted by CapHillCock:
wait, what!?!??

We kept the brains behind that awesome defense in the fold and we had nearly double digit de-committments and are now ranked 19th in recruiting?-

Cue all the "recruiting doesn't matter" posts. Funny you only hear that argument from the schools that aren't ranked in the top 10. Please show me the last national championship team that won without having at least one top ten class in the fold. I will wait...

Fact is, recruiting matters.... that is how you get talent... Ohio State showed this year what happens when you stockpile talent- winning a title with their 3rd string QB. Oregon had the scheme but the Buckeyes clearly had the better athletes on both lines and even at the skill positions.

Another fact: with SC rankings the last few years the Gamecocks are not national title contenders.

That was a great 3 year run of 11 wins and got the team on the brink of elite status but this year was a bridge year- to show college football watchers the team could win without marquee stars like Clowney- I'd like to think that if it had been another 10 or 11 win season then SC would have remained in the top 10 recruiting this year and for years to come- the program was on the brink, people were taking notice, but the year could not have gone any worse if the footballs gods were all Clemson grads: all the losses, the way so many losses occurred with the late game implosions, the loss to rival, the coaches 2-3 year comment, the lost recruits. At least a bowl win was salvaged. But I don't think the likes of USA Today will have us pre-season top 5 any time soon.

The fact that 8 potential opponents SC could face are ranked ahead of the Gamecocks in this year's rankings does not bode well for the future.

Odds are the team will be a middle of the pack program- I know SC fans are some of the most loyal bunch out there- put even the Cubs fans to shame- but for a team that somehow managed to win 11 games 3 times in a row and still not win a single division title in that span, I don't see much more than a middle of the pack legacy for this program with a few double digit surprises sprinkled in from time to time.

Sounds to me like you might need to find another program to pull for if you don't like the direction the program is headed. Or maybe write this "evaluation" to Coach Tanner and Coach Spurrier and see if they are willing to listen.
Not sure what real good will come from this kind of stuff on a message board. Nobody on here can do anything about this.
Otherwise, it's just negative noise that might influence some of the players you want to come here to go somewhere else.

This post was edited on 2/4 11:44 PM by Garnet Man

 

[Gamecock Lifer]

You are mistaken cap, never called you a fool outright. I said IF you thought one recruiting class was going to make us a NC contender, well then you are a fool... Nobody should believe one good class will turn a team from 7-6 to a National Champion.. Almost never happens like that. It is blind luck if you do get that kind of class. The norm is that you build talent and depth over time.

 

[cockamammy]

Give whammy a chance people. Hes making the boys do patti cake drills all winter. We should have the best hands in SEC

 

[CapHillCock]

Got it Lifer, no worries....

Garnet Man: I'd say my comments are more realistic than negative- if you think such realism is negative than I guess that speaks volumes about the situation.

I am a Gamecock fan by birth not choice- it is hard to shake the things you were introduced to 40 years ago- nothing wrong with being a fan of a mediocre team just as long as fans have their eyes wide open about it.

realistically we aren't there yet, never have been, came close a few times, but still have a ways to go.- that about sums up the program's history.

 

[Garnet Man]

Originally posted by CapHillCock:
Got it Lifer, no worries....

Garnet Man: I'd say my comments are more realistic than negative- if you think such realism is negative than I guess that speaks volumes about the situation.

I am a Gamecock fan by birth not choice- it is hard to shake the things you were introduced to 40 years ago- nothing wrong with being a fan of a mediocre team just as long as fans have their eyes wide open about it.

realistically we aren't there yet, never have been, came close a few times, but still have a ways to go.- that about sums up the program's history.

You're right. We're a blindly loyal bunch. I like that about us.
And that faith and perseverance and loyalty to something you love no matter what...has a chance to teach lessons about not only sports...but life as well. It paid off in 2010 and 2011 when we won our first two national championships in men's sports.
Many Carolina fans have a greater appreciation for those championships because they know what and how long it took us to get them. A greater appreciation than the Alabama's or the Florida's or other programs that expect to win every year.

Additionally, it's not that our persona is tied up in the success or failure of the athletic programs at the University of South Carolina...it's that we continue to love something because of the times we get to spend together with family and friends and the support for the program becomes an important part of important relationships with people in our lives. Same can be said for time with family on vacations and holidays and birthdays and such. It's part of a greater life perspective gained...and Gamecock sports are just a part of that experience that creates that perspective.

 

[CapHillCock]

Well said, Garnet Man- one best posts I have read here in a long while

 

[HI Cock]

Originally posted by Gamecock Lifer:
You are mistaken cap, never called you a fool outright. I said IF you thought one recruiting class was going to make us a NC contender, well then you are a fool... Nobody should believe one good class will turn a team from 7-6 to a National Champion.. Almost never happens like that. It is blind luck if you do get that kind of class. The norm is that you build talent and depth over time.

Tell that to Ohio State. Click here to read a bit about it.

I will argue that with 10 years of good - but not great - classes prepares a 7-6 team to reach the NC if they can get a top-5 class one year. Read the article above if you don't believe it.

We have built our talent and depth. Now we need to get a few superstars that take us to the next level - like the recruiting splashes in the name of Jeffrey, Lattimore and Clowney.

 

[b.wun]

IMO many are unrealistic about recruiting. We live in a smaller state population wise. Although there is some very good talent here, it is split in half by the 2 major schools with some cherry picking by some big schools. That makes it hard to have consistant top classes.

We do pick up talent from 3 neighboring states but it is difficult to take the top talent away from UF, FSU and Miami. Add auburn, Bama, OSU, ND to those schools and it is tough to get the top talent from Florida. So how does Clemson do it? Cough cough bagman cough booster in Tampa.

Georgia still gets a majority of the talent in Georgia even with all of the cherry picking by other schools. Too many high school coaches are dawg fans. Ie I think we just had a kid that couldn't make it to our JR day because his track coach wanted him to stay home and practice. I think he was probably protecting UGA interests.

The in state talent has been down a little the last couple of years and that has been an issue. I think our staff has done a great job of expanding the territory and bringing in out of state talent.

I read a post about us now competing which the big boys for talent instead of mid range teams. Well you are going to lose some of those battles.

I like our class. I am obviously disappointed that we lost a couple of guys at the end that would have helped but we couldn't sign 38. If we got those guys then we wouldn't have gotten someone else. In some cases it was a wash, in other cases I would have preferred the guy that we lost.

 

[wutan]

Originally posted by Gamecock Lifer:
I get that fans think we cost ourselves a top 5 class or something because we lost some recruits, but that is just flat out BS.

This class was ranked top 5 when the teams who are now ahead of us had not gotten commits from most of the best talent. Auburn's, UCLA, LSU, SO. CAL, UF, UGA, OHIO STATE.... All of these programs added major talent in the last few weeks/ HOURS of this recruiting cycle and likely would have passed us and bumped us down to about number 10-12 even if we kept EVERY SINGLE ONE of our decommits. There is not a huge difference in the grand scheme of things between a top 12 and the #18 class.., there just isn't.

This was a solid class, meeting all of our needs. People wanted changes on the defensive staff and WE HAVE CHANGES... Why is it necessary to pop off about the same idiotic nonsense a dozen other people have already made threads to cry about? What did you want our coaches to do... And why are you talking about national title contenders? When have we truly ever been in that contention? 1984? Did you really think this one class was ever set up to launch us into national title contention? If so.., well... You are a fool.

We have a ways to go yet.

Exactly this!! Our rating preseason last year was inflated because we basically had a full class before the season. There was just no way that we were going to hold onto everyone. Yes, we lost more than we would have had SOS not made the 2-3 year comment, or if we would have had 9+ wins. But we would have still lost 4 or 5 guys just because of how many we started with.

 

[CapHillCock]

b. wun,

excellent arguments - we do have some decided disadvantages with our state size- combine that with a lack of solid tradition especially compared to some of our rivals like Georgia and Florida and TN and Clemson (all won national titles) and it is an uphill battle
We were able to leverage two things to help us go on that recent run- having a legend like Spurrier and having a rare crop of elite in-state talent- you could argue that we wouldn't have enjoyed the fruits of one without the other- meaning Spurrier likely would not have won without them and they would not have come without him.
Now we are in an in-state dry spell and may be facing some 7-6 type seasons.
I was a victim of believing we had turned the corner as a program after the last 3 years- so this past season ballon burs was a hard pill to swallow
Better to have proper expectations as a Gamecock fan- hope we can be consistently competitive and hope the next run of instate taken comes soon ... and that this time we take advantage of it more by winning at least one title
Wonder what even a single SEC title during the span when we had the talent to do it would have meant to the program going forward?

 

[raycock2001]

Thought it was intersting when i looked up our recruiting for the last 6-7 years. I think several on here are upset that we didn't bring in any 5 star recruits. Well, the few times we did it was 1 5 star and maybe 5-6 4 stars. This year, while we didn't have any 5 stars, we have, I think, 11 4 stars. Heard on the radio the other day that 2-3 of those were rated like 5.8 on a 6.0 scale, so just short of being 5 stars.
Really like this class, think we filled needs with some good quality players. Plus, it seems ,several have that swagger that was missing this past season. Only time will tell.

 

[jerryusc]

b.wun posted on 2/5/2015
IMO many are unrealistic about recruiting. We live in a smaller state population wise. Although there is some very good talent here, it is split in half by the 2 major schools with some cherry picking by some big schools. That makes it hard to have consistant top classes.
======================================================================



The old tired wornout excuse again!

Population of Ala and SC for 2014:
Ala-4,779,737
SC-4,625,364

 

[CapHillCock]

interesting stat, jerry

I guess Alabama- both schools there- have something we don't despite the similar population size: tradition
That legacy gives them an added advantage- it is hard to find a more tradition bound sport than college football.
NFL has parity now, college basketball has the Butlers and Gonzagas with the tourney and it being easier to build a program when yo have just 5 on the court vs 22 on the field, NBA now has the Atlantas and the Golden States winning a ton and they have had a pretty diverse roster of champions here lately with Dallas and Miami and San Antonio getting in on the fun.
I'd say even MLB has some parity with the Detroit and Kansas Cities getting some playoff wins lately.
But with college football it is "round up the usual suspects" more often than not.
When was the last time a college team won the football title for the first time? Someone showed that stat on here after Ohio State won and it had been a long time- maybe even 25 years or so...

 

[jerryusc]

CapHillCock posted on 2/5/2015...
===================================================


Ala and Aub have tradition and USC is trying to build one.
I just get tired of that small state BS when that's not the reason USC has been unable to win a NC in FB. If having huge populations was the reason for winning NCs in FB then teams in Calif, New York, Texas and Fla would win all the time.
Another stat eye opener:
Oregon population for 2013-3.84M

 

[BigWillieCock]

I have posted many, many, many times throughout the years showing various states with small football populations who do well including Alabama, Oklahoma, Tennessee etc. Always got hammered by excuses about tradition.

But does tradition really matter anymore? It does to me but I am a college football history junkie. I can sit at the bar and tell you ever AP National Title by year since World War II. I can spout off when Bear Bryant did this, when Bud Wilkinson did that and when Bob Devaney did the other. But I am a 35 year old who loves the history of the sport.

Do these 18 year old kids care? If they do care about tradition how far back does it go? Not far. They don't care what happened in the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s or even 90s. Their entire football memory is basically since 2004. Tradition since then has been Boise State, TCU, Baylor, Louisville, Oregon etc. All teams with no historic traditions. I really do not think tradition matters the way it did 20 years ago.

What matters?

Facilities- we are catching up

Alumni- any top team year in and year out has a massive, involved, and famous group of former players hanging around. its a fraternity and these kids want to be in the exclusive popular ones. We have only just recently gotten our act together in this area (thank you SOS and Marcus)

Selling what the kids want- do we offer a system of play that is appealing to the top recruits? i think this is debatable.

Lastly its about the science and professional nature of it all now- I feel sometimes like we are more Radio Shack than Amazon. More KMart than Target. By that I mean we in the SOS era have always been very late to the changing trends in college football. By the time we change, the trend we are changing toward has already morphed again. Being where we are in SEC recruiting spending and infrastructure is inexcusable.

 

[usc89]

Agree on "science and professional nature of it all now".

The University of South Carolina has got to have the WORST athletic marketing department and SID office.

We are outclassed in those areas by almost every other school.

 

[Cackdiesel]

Originally posted by jerryusc:

CapHillCock posted on 2/5/2015...
===================================================


Ala and Aub have tradition and USC is trying to build one.
I just get tired of that small state BS when that's not the reason USC has been unable to win a NC in FB. If having huge populations was the reason for winning NCs in FB then teams in Calif, New York, Texas and Fla would win all the time.
Another stat eye opener:
Oregon population for 2013-3.84M

It's about money. And Alabama and Auburn have more money because of their tradition. Oregon has unlimited money as you know.

No one in New York cares about college football btw.