Has anyone pulled their kids out of public school

[ToddFlanders]

and yet the value of that "education" gets less and less each year...

The value of education has never been higher. We're entering into a new dark ages because people cannot grasp the amount of information (true or otherwise) that is now available to every human. And because they cannot grasp it, they shun it. They retreat back to old information - when the world made sense to them. Again, whether it be true or otherwise. It's comforting.

Only with a more educated populace can we get through this. Education slows down the game - to use a sports metaphor - and makes all the information much less scary. The younger generation is already able to sift through this info with greater ease than older Americans, so there is light at the end of the tunnel. But only with education.

 

[cockyferg]

Kids NEED to be taught successful personal finance, math, PE, and if there’s time left after those are MASTERED, then you could add basic building construction, electrical, plumbing, auto mechanics, hvac etc. other than those useful tools forget it. I believe if everyone pulled the kids out across the country we could do a hard reset and end this disaster called public education. Byeee to all the teachers unions and child abuse.

You have no idea what you're talking about. I've worked in three districts and all have ATC or career centers that teach construction, welding, auto mechanic, business, cosmetology, and a plethora of other skilled trades.

 

[cockyferg]

The real question is What are today’s teachers for?

Once again someone who doesn't know what they're talking about. You do realize that most public school teachers aren't allowed to teach what they want to teach they have to teach what they are told to teach, which is either the state or national standards that they are given and evaluated for teaching. If you've ever heard of common core or the South Carolina teaching standards or the AL a library media specialist standards then you might know what you were talking about. The problem with the general public is that everyone who went to school thinks they know what happens in a school because they sat there as a student, when in reality they know nothing about what actually happens in the back end of a school.

 

[cockyferg]

The public schools aren't the problem. The parents are the problem. When did parents stop teaching their children to respect authority and adults and listen to their teachers? Of course there are some teachers who May lack common sense or aren't the brightest bulbs but they do require a four-year degree to become a teacher in that field. If teachers didn't have to deal with fights, disrespectful students, ridiculous national mandates and state standards, then they might actually be able to teach things that matter. But nobody outside of education really understands that because they've never worked as a teacher in a school district. Everybody sits in school and thinks they know what they're talking about because they listen to a teacher but nobody knows how the school actually works unless they've been a part of it

 

[ghostofpepsicock]

The value of education has never been higher. We're entering into a new dark ages because people cannot grasp the amount of information (true or otherwise) that is now available to every human. And because they cannot grasp it, they shun it. They retreat back to old information - when the world made sense to them. Again, whether it be true or otherwise. It's comforting.

Only with a more educated populace can we get through this. Education slows down the game - to use a sports metaphor - and makes all the information much less scary. The younger generation is already able to sift through this info with greater ease than older Americans, so there is light at the end of the tunnel. But only with education.

Tell that to the record number of people graduating with degrees for which there is no demand...you have people with a 4 year degree handing you a starbucks drink, not kidding...

Many degrees are in demand and getting such a degree is worth it. However, many are graduating with a ton of debt and no prospects on getting a good paying job...and to top it off, they want the US taxpayer to cover their student debt for their worthless degree.

 

[cocks rule]

You have no idea what you're talking about. I've worked in three districts and all have ATC or career centers that teach construction, welding, auto mechanic, business, cosmetology, and a plethora of other skilled trades.

Reading comp not your strong suit? Lol

 

[cocks rule]

Once again someone who doesn't know what they're talking about. You do realize that most public school teachers aren't allowed to teach what they want to teach they have to teach what they are told to teach, which is either the state or national standards that they are given and evaluated for teaching. If you've ever heard of common core or the South Carolina teaching standards or the AL a library media specialist standards then you might know what you were talking about. The problem with the general public is that everyone who went to school thinks they know what happens in a school because they sat there as a student, when in reality they know nothing about what actually happens in the back end of a school.

Whatever is happening is wrong and not effective or efficient. That’s the problem. It must be corrected. Period!

 

[cocks rule]

The public schools aren't the problem. The parents are the problem. When did parents stop teaching their children to respect authority and adults and listen to their teachers? Of course there are some teachers who May lack common sense or aren't the brightest bulbs but they do require a four-year degree to become a teacher in that field. If teachers didn't have to deal with fights, disrespectful students, ridiculous national mandates and state standards, then they might actually be able to teach things that matter. But nobody outside of education really understands that because they've never worked as a teacher in a school district. Everybody sits in school and thinks they know what they're talking about because they listen to a teacher but nobody knows how the school actually works unless they've been a part of it

It appears your main problem stems from working for the government. Nothing controlled by Uncle Sam will ever be effective or efficient. Should’ve gone the private school route. Much better control and results

 

[ghostofpepsicock]

It appears your main problem stems from working for the government. Nothing controlled by Uncle Sam will ever be effective or efficient. Should’ve gone the private school route. Much better control and results

It seems like the government does nothing better than private enterprise except maybe war.

Private businesses focus on costs and results and change as needed to get both where they want them. If not they go out of business.

Government stays fat and happy throwing more (tax) money at problems without worrying about "going out of business." Government can afford to be wildly inefficient due to they're the only game in town...

 

[cocks rule]

It seems like the government does nothing better than private enterprise except maybe war.

Private businesses focus on costs and results and change as needed to get both where they want them. If not they go out of business.

Government stays fat and happy throwing more (tax) money at problems without worrying about "going out of business." Government can afford to be wildly inefficient due to they're the only game in town...

So true plus I’ll bet a private military would outperform a government military given a chance. It would be hard to outspend the government but somehow we kicked British ass with our private military. Just saying.

 

[cockyferg]

It appears your main problem stems from working for the government. Nothing controlled by Uncle Sam will ever be effective or efficient. Should’ve gone the private school route. Much better control and results

Someone has to do it, and the poor can't afford private education. If we privatize education we are, in effect, creating another feudal system.

 

[Gamecockben1979]

So my question would be - How is it decided what teachers get what students? Do they give "good" students to "good" teachers? How does that work? I would think it is not randomized...

At the high school level you must receive certification to teach AP “the best” or labeled as such. The course is a joke but you have to at least do it after teaching AP for one year.

Honors and College Prep (lowest level) classes are given out depending on the school by an administrator or maybe guidance. It has very little to do with who “the best” teachers are. It’s often very political or classes are given out based on who is friends with the assistant principal, guidance department or department chair.

Often times I was given the lower level students because “I was good with them” which is code for I can do it without quitting or sending 100 referrals, which creates work for administrators. Some people would quit or it would be a crap show. You’d be surprised how few of teachers can really teach everyone.

The school I just left there are some teachers that had some really easy classes the last few years that have to teach more lower level courses to pick up the slack for my departure. Had they just thrown me a higher level class every now and then or kept my schedule consistent I would have stayed. My decision to leave had nothing to do with the kids and everything to do with the adults, but that’s not uncommon in education.

 

[cockyferg]

Reading comp not your strong suit? Lol

Actually I have not problem with reading comp. The problem lies in your assumption that the schools aren't attempting to teach the three R's. Talk to people who teach kindergarten and you'll understand. The number of children who start kindergarten without knowing their colors, letters, and numbers is astounding. Then factor in social promotion through the lower grades and you have the problem we're facing now in high schools with 16 year old children who can't read to pass the most basic classes

 

[Gamecockben1979]

It appears your main problem stems from working for the government. Nothing controlled by Uncle Sam will ever be effective or efficient. Should’ve gone the private school route. Much better control and results

You’re comparing apples to oranges here. Public school must take everyone, private school can deny entry. If Dutch Fork (just for example) could deny entry to the weakest academic students, it would be every bit as good as Cardinal Newman, Heathwood Hall, etc….

 

[Gamecockben1979]

Actually I have not problem with reading comp. The problem lies in your assumption that the schools aren't attempting to teach the three R's. Talk to people who teach kindergarten and you'll understand. The number of children who start kindergarten without knowing their colors, letters, and numbers is astounding. Then factor in social promotion through the lower grades and you have the problem we're facing now in high schools with 16 year old children who can't read to pass the most basic classes

Preach. I’ve had kids come into my 11th grade class that I knew could not read (never learned or in some cases foreign students who did not speak English).

What am I going to do when I have 80 days to teach 400 years of history….do that and teach Johnny how to read at the same time.

 

[cockyferg]

We follow state standards. For my students basic financial management is a major part of the math curriculum. My students are not mainstream, rather they are adapted. I can spend a month on counting dimes. For mainstream stidents, though, how long does it take to teach them to balance a checkbook and add sales tax?

I see a lot of my friends who teach SPED teaching those life skills, but I guess that the regular Ed classes assume students can apply skills learned in algebra to balance a checkbook. It isn't that much of a stretch. An item cost x amount and the tax is y% of the item's cost. It's a simple calculation people should be able to do. Dealing with IRS taxes though? That's another issue altogether

 

[cockyferg]

You’re comparing apples to oranges here. Public school must take everyone, private school can deny entry. If Dutch Fork (just for example) could deny entry to the weakest academic students, it would be every bit as good as Cardinal Newman, Heathwood Hall, etc….

Academically, those private schools aren't any different from the IB/AP curricula in public schools. However, they don't spend time on discipline and the other things public school teachers do....like students who only get one or two meals a day and can't afford decent clothes.

 

[cockyferg]

Whatever is happening is wrong and not effective or efficient. That’s the problem. It must be corrected. Period!

I agree there are problems, but I don't think they originate in the schools

 

[Bad seed]

So almost 30 years ago. Got it

He asked, and that's when it happened. It's not as though leftist trash has gotten less bold and virulent since then. It's also not likely that the narrow minded vermin I cited have moderated their mainstream liberal views. But you're just like them, so to you there is no problem. One sewer rat doesn't find the 10 other sewer rats beside him the least bit disgusting.

 

[rogue cock]

I see a lot of my friends who teach SPED teaching those life skills, but I guess that the regular Ed classes assume students can apply skills learned in algebra to balance a checkbook. It isn't that much of a stretch. An item cost x amount and the tax is y% of the item's cost. It's a simple calculation people should be able to do. Dealing with IRS taxes though? That's another issue altogether

Dealing with IRS taxes? I know a lot of doctors, engineers, lawyers, etc...who don't know how to do that eventhough they think they do.

 

[Gamecockben1979]

Academically, those private schools aren't any different from the IB/AP curricula in public schools. However, they don't spend time on discipline and the other things public school teachers do....like students who only get one or two meals a day and can't afford decent clothes.

Night and day difference:
Socioeconomic
Racial
And just about any other difference you can think of.

You don’t think there are drugs or discipline issues in a private school? For $30,000 a year a lot gets swept under the rug. I guess you think the Murdaugh boy was innocent too. He’s a private school product.

 

[ToddFlanders]

Night and day difference:
Socioeconomic
Racial
And just about any other difference you can think of.

You don’t think there are drugs or discipline issues in a private school? For $30,000 a year a lot gets swept under the rug. I guess you think the Murdaugh boy was innocent too. He’s a private school product.

The private school kids get all the best drugs, and typically more of them. They not only have the money for them, but the parents that can make sure they don't have a record if they get caught. (Drug laws are always more harshly weilded against those that don't have the money to defend themselves properly.)

 

[rogue cock]

Night and day difference:
Socioeconomic
Racial
And just about any other difference you can think of.

You don’t think there are drugs or discipline issues in a private school? For $30,000 a year a lot gets swept under the rug. I guess you think the Murdaugh boy was innocent too. He’s a private school product.

The Murdaugh case could be used as the posterchild of a lot of ills in our society.

Swept under the rug isn't the half of it....not even allowing the sheriff's department on campus to investigate an alleged crime.

 

[Gamecockben1979]

The private school kids get all the best drugs, and typically more of them. They not only have the money for them, but the parents that can make sure they don't have a record if they get caught. (Drug laws are always more harshly weilded against those that don't have the money to defend themselves properly.)

Yeah we have a large uninformed population in this state that believes somehow attending a private school is one step below sainthood. There are some great kids there, but let’s not pretend there aren’t typical high school issues at a private school as well. Not to mention that money makes a lot of problems disappear.

 

[Lurker123]

What am I going to do when I have 80 days to teach 400 years of history….do that and teach Johnny how to read at the same time.

I think the first step would be to not pass them.

 

[rogue cock]

I think the first step would be to not pass them.

Can't do that. Parents can hold their kids back.....good luck on that happening.

 

[Gamecockben1979]

I think the first step would be to not pass them.

If combined with a lack of effort they did fail. I actually failed more students this year then in the rest of my career years combined. If you seek failures, that should give you satisfaction

If they tried and were respectful, yeah they passed. Is it going to move them from a cook at Sonic to a Harvard grad? Probably not. Is there really a reason to hold a kid in high school until they’re 21? Besides they can just go around me and get “credit recovery” anyway.

So to summarize, if a kid gives a good faith effort, shows up and doesn’t have an attitude, they’ll probably pass. It may not be pretty but I’ll get them across. But it’s a fairy tale that I can’t and won’t fail students. I’d say about 50 found that out the hard way this year.

 

[Lurker123]

If combined with a lack of effort they did fail. I actually failed more students this year then in the rest of my career years combined. If you seek failures, that should give you satisfaction

If they tried and were respectful, yeah they passed. Is it going to move them from a cook at Sonic to a Harvard grad? Probably not. Is there really a reason to hold a kid in high school until they’re 21? Besides they can just go around me and get “credit recovery” anyway.

So to summarize, if a kid gives a good faith effort, shows up and doesn’t have an attitude, they’ll probably pass. It may not be pretty but I’ll get them across. But it’s a fairy tale that I can’t and won’t fail students. I’d say about 50 found that out the hard way this year.

Exactly the low bar I would expect, and a very good reason why kids are making it to your class not able to read.

 

[Lurker123]

Can't do that. Parents can hold their kids back.....good luck on that happening.

And that is the first part of the problem, imho.

 

[chief2791]

Dealing with IRS taxes? I know a lot of doctors, engineers, lawyers, etc...who don't know how to do that eventhough they think they do.

Yeah, that's a no-go for me. Never have talked to the IRS, and don't plan to. I have a good accountant, and he's worth every penny. If something is wrong, needs clarification or correction, he talks to them. That's a quarterly check I don't mind stroking.

 

[rogue cock]

And that is the first part of the problem, imho.

Not much different in private school. When you charge $15,000+ in annual tuition, you don't want to upset too many parents by failing their children....otherwise the word gets around and your enrollment declines. Same reason they try to keep other problems under the radar.

 

[rogue cock]

Yeah, that's a no-go for me. Never have talked to the IRS, and don't plan to. I have a good accountant, and he's worth every penny. If something is wrong, needs clarification or correction, he talks to them. That's a quarterly check I don't mind stroking.

They are no fun to deal with especially when you do something absolutely wrong. I have wanted to tell a few clients "What the F..... were you thinking!!!!"

 

[chief2791]

All that I want to add is that while I think the government does a bad job in running the education system as a whole (what do they run well??), the teachers are the ones that are trying. I know there's bad apples like any other profession, I've seen them, but there's many more good than bad.

IMHO, what we need is discipline and backbone, from the school boards to administration. Too many kids think they can do whatever they want (and they do), and the teachers, that actually have to deal with them, get little support when they try to maintain order.

My son is a rising college Sr, and thought that he wanted to be a teacher and coach. After student teaching for the past 1-2 years at 2 different HS's, I seriously doubt that he will. It's because of the attitudes, and the lack of support from administration that he's seen first-hand. He said I'll be damned if I'll let a kid cuss me to my face, like he's seen numerous times. The inmates run the asylum and he wasn't raised that way. The snotty nosed brats and their parents are problems, and nobody holds them accountable. Now, his plans are to use the extra athletic covid year to add a minor and go into some other line of work. He would have been a damn good teacher and coach. How many others are out there like him?