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Hillinski vs Hill

I didn't use our performance against the ACC as a measuring stick. But you're insane if you thing playing an ACC conference schedule compares in any way to playing an SEC conference schedule.
The ACC is terrible so success in the ACC is meaningless but on the same hand the lack of success against the terrible ACC is also meaningless. Makes sense to you I guess.
 
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Hope Ryan is ready anyway, someone with a 3 time torn ACL will most likely not hold up for long with an all SEC schedule and then factor in our usual under performing O-line.
 
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Sitting back, popping my popcorn, watching all the grown adults act like kids who didn't get what they wanted from Santa.

I can already see them, sitting, arms crossed, bottom lip poked out...... I have to say I'm a wee bit surprised. Regardless, I'll be pulling for CH to show out and have a monster season (which would most likely mean the team has a good season). And THAT should be what we all want.
 
Not pinning the entire crappy game against App State against RH but he missed a wide open Bryan Edwards on the last play to win...you have to complete that pass, I don't care what year you are

(scroll to 8:55)

To me, without making plays like that, the job remains open. Not saying Im cheering the Hill move, Im just saying the door was left open and this is what happens.

(I know there was an offensive penalty on us that last play but still, didn't impact the pass)
((Plus, our uniforms were ugly as hell, maybe that was the ultimate culprit 😁))
 
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The ACC is terrible so success in the ACC is meaningless but on the same hand the lack of success against the terrible ACC is also meaningless. Makes sense to you I guess.
The ACC will not be tested this year (ooc) so they will (did) as usual start with multiple overrated teams... and because of that, will finish with multiple overrated teams.
 
I’ll say this, Hill better produce if you’re going to make this move. I’ll be shocked if Hilinski plays beyond this year in a Gamecock uniform.
 
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The ACC will not be tested this year (ooc) so they will (did) as usual start with multiple overrated teams... and because of that, will finish with multiple overrated teams.
That’s fine but until we figure out how to beat an ACC team I don’t think we should be focusing on them being bad or overrated.
 
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Sitting back, popping my popcorn, watching all the grown adults act like kids who didn't get what they wanted from Santa.
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Well, well, well...glad to see some of you have come around to acknowledge the obvious about our starting QB who is near the bottom of the SEC in quarterback rating. In the bottom half for all relevant passing stats.

Might wanna out that Heisman speech on hold.

I concede that Hill isn’t solely to blame for any particular loss (or win). But it must also be conceded that his play, for a 5th year senior in the same offensive system, hasn’t been very good.
 
Well, well, well...glad to see some of you have come around to acknowledge the obvious about our starting QB who is near the bottom of the SEC in quarterback rating. In the bottom half for all relevant passing stats.

Might wanna out that Heisman speech on hold.

I concede that Hill isn’t solely to blame for any particular loss (or win). But it must also be conceded that his play, for a 5th year senior in the same offensive system, hasn’t been very good.

yet that QB at the bottom beat out your man-crush. Get over it loser. Please stop creating usernames and move on.
 
Y’all crack me up. All I’ve read on this forum this entire week is how Muschamp’s a total incompetent who can’t coach at all. He needs to be fired and he’ll never have a P5 head coaching job again. But I’m still supposed to believe he made the right call on the starting QB.

Good one.
 
We should of seen where Hilinski in the 4th quarter vs LSU, Muschamp's stubborn streak to be open to improve holds him back, as well as being to conservative, and having way to much confidence in his defense.

Lets see Ryan throw some in this system, run it, get some in game eval done, doesn't mean you start him the next week.

Some of the coaching decisions by WM were ridiculously bad and once again displayed his incompetence in that game.

But when your boss is weak like Tanner this is what happens, and Tanner doesnt want to get involved because he was a coach and knew what he was doing, and assumes others do, and wants to be the AD he would of liked to work for, this happens over and over again.

Muschamp needs to work under a stronger AD, who would be calling him out for his conservative decisions that keeps hurting himself.
 
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Y’all crack me up. All I’ve read on this forum this entire week is how Muschamp’s a total incompetent who can’t coach at all. He needs to be fired and he’ll never have a P5 head coaching job again. But I’m still supposed to believe he made the right call on the starting QB.

Good one.

We’re fools. It clear Hilinski, based on how awesome he was last year, is the best QB in the nation. Seriously, you are way smarter than us. We suck. You know what would really stick it to us???? You never gracing is with your amazing football intellect. That would show us...
 
We should of seen where Hilinski in the 4th quarter vs LSU, Muschamp's stubborn streak to be open to improve holds him back.

Lets see him throw some in this system, get some in game eval done, doesn't mean you start him the next week.

Some of the coaching decisions by WM were ridiculously bad and once again displayed his incompetence in that game

Everyone agrees with this. This clown isn’there for real discussion...he’s just here to talk about his crush on Hilinski. If Hill was a Heisman front runner he’d be saying he’s upset because Ryan isn’t playing. Seriously, he’s been waiting for Hill to have a bad game. When we beat Auburn he was confessing his affection for Hilinski and talking about how much it hurts him to see a transfer actually winning games.
 
Well, well, well...glad to see some of you have come around to acknowledge the obvious about our starting QB who is near the bottom of the SEC in quarterback rating. In the bottom half for all relevant passing stats.

Might wanna out that Heisman speech on hold.

I concede that Hill isn’t solely to blame for any particular loss (or win). But it must also be conceded that his play, for a 5th year senior in the same offensive system, hasn’t been very good.
What?!?

LSU doesn’t have to punt the entire game, went 8-10 on third downs, we have ZERO sacks OR hurries on their true freshman 2nd string qb playing his first college game ever, they rush for almost 300 against us, return a kickoff for a touchdown after we pulled within 7, and you’re talking about Hilinski and throwing shade at Collin Hill?!?

Btw, White hits his field goals and we put up 33 on the defending national champions. On the road. On a bad night for everyone.

I feel sorry for some of you guys. It’s gotta suck living in that world.
 
I personally don't care about Hill or Hilinski. But we have to call a spade a spade. Hill has not been good this year. South Carolina has some talent at wide receiver. But out of 87 quarterbacks with enough snaps this year, he's #59 in passer rating, #57 in ypa, and #52 in passing completion percentage. That's with playing terrible defenses (the #70, #95, #52, #40, and #98 passing defenses). There is no reason not to try out Hilinski, especially when getting blown out. I personally think Bobo asked Hill to come with him, and since he did, he's going to play him no matter what. That's the only reason I can conceive of why not to play the second string QB when you're losing by 30 to a team that would have been 1-3 had their game against Florida not been postponed. Again, I'm not sure Hilinski is better than Hill. But I am very anti-Bobo (I don't know why South Carolina keeps hiring coaches who failed at SEC schools with more talent). And I think a competent offensive coordinator would try other players to see if they could find a spark to ignite a lifeless offense (the passing attack is currently #11 in the SEC).

And LOL at trying to say the LSU that whipped South Carolina is the same as they were last year. They lost everyone. And are #98 in passing defense.

QB rating doesn’t factor in dropped passes. We’ve had a $hit ton...especially early on against UT and Florida. Hill was solid at the position for 4 games and then had an awfully concerning game against LSU. Sorry, this isn’t calling a spade a spade. Until Saturday Hill was playing fine. QBR doesn’t tell the whole story.
 
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I personally don't care about Hill or Hilinski. But we have to call a spade a spade. Hill has not been good this year. South Carolina has some talent at wide receiver. But out of 87 quarterbacks with enough snaps this year, he's #59 in passer rating, #57 in ypa, and #52 in passing completion percentage. That's with playing terrible defenses (the #70, #95, #52, #40, and #98 passing defenses). There is no reason not to try out Hilinski, especially when getting blown out. I personally think Bobo asked Hill to come with him, and since he did, he's going to play him no matter what. That's the only reason I can conceive of why not to play the second string QB when you're losing by 30 to a team that would have been 1-3 had their game against Florida not been postponed. Again, I'm not sure Hilinski is better than Hill. But I am very anti-Bobo (I don't know why South Carolina keeps hiring coaches who failed at SEC schools with more talent). And I think a competent offensive coordinator would try other players to see if they could find a spark to ignite a lifeless offense (the passing attack is currently #11 in the SEC).

And LOL at trying to say the LSU that whipped South Carolina is the same as they were last year. They lost everyone. And are #98 in passing defense.

Nice post, but facts and reason are not welcome here.

It’s moronic that some insist on judging Hilinski on last year when he was thrust into action in the second game of his true freshman season. Yet they refuse to acknowledge the stats you point out for Hill. Hill, as a 5th year senior with the same OC, has played himself into one of the worst QBs in the league.

You are dead on that he has not been good and he’s got no upside. This is his ceiling.
 
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I included more than QBR. Every QB has drops. It happens. Clemson has a wide-out who's dropped like 6 touchdown passes this year. In every stat, Collin Hill is in the bottom half of the country. I don't see how you can look at the other games and say he's been solid for everything but LSU.

  • We'll cover LSU first. Coming into the week, LSU had allowed 381 yards a game with 10.8 YPA, 3.3 touchdowns per game, and 1.2 INTs a game. This was against competition with a combined record of 3-8 (only Mizzou has a win over a team other than LSU). Hill had 160 yards less with 1 TD and 1 INT.
  • Florida has an atrocious passing defense. Hill did have 200 yards, but he did it on nearly 50 pass attempts. That YPA (4.4) is worse than every single QB to play at least 2 games. And for comparison, Ole Miss had over 13 YPA and A&M 9.4 YPA against Florida.
  • Against Auburn, he had 144 yards on 24 attempts. That is a lower total yards and YPA than all their other opponents, which include Georgia, Kentucky, Arkansas, and Ole Miss. He similarly did worse than A&M and LSU against Vandy.
The only game you can say he's played okay in was Tennessee. While he's not very close in YPA to Bazelon's, Bennett's, or Mac Jones's play against Tennessee, he had a lot of yards and he beat out Terry Wilson in YPA. Of course, there's more to the story, as Terry Wilson completed 80% of his passes and only attempted 15 short passes (they ran it 45 times as their defense controlled the game).

So no matter what game you pick, Hill has been outplayed by every other QB to play that team. Do you really think South Carolina has worse receivers than all these other teams including Vandy, Kentucky, Ole Miss, and Arkansas? But maybe the statistics are unfair. Passing stats don't matter if a QB is dynamic and can spark teams with his feet. Georgia Tech's and Coastal's QBs are examples of that. Their passing games aren't great, but they make plays with their feet making their offenses dangerous if you don't account for them. But Hill has 38 carries for 33 yards, making his -1.2 YPC one of the fifteen worst in college football.

As I said, I don't know if Hilinski is better than Hill. But here's what I do know. Despite playing some bad teams, South Carolina has been outplayed in every game but Vandy. In those matchups, Hill has some of the worst stats in college football. Last year, as a true freshman, Hilinski faced far better teams than Hill has thus far. He faced 6 ranked teams and 9 top 50 defenses. Despite that, he had a 113.4 QBR compared to Hill's current 59.3. He had a much better TD to INT ratio and was much better at avoiding sacks. And he had some games where he played really well, especially against Alabama, Tennessee, and Georgia. There are no games you can point to for Hill yet.

Despite all of this, Hilinski has not been allowed to throw a single pass this year. Again, I have no crush on Hilinski. He's certainly no superstar. But you're a lost cause if you can look at these rock hard facts and say Bobo's actions are logical. Rather, it points to Bobo's extreme incompetence (which you can see all the way back to UGA, where he perennially took top 5 NFL talent and rarely turned it into a top 25 offense), especially considering Hilinski is young and will get better with more practice and development, and Hill is at the very end of his career. This season is a wash. Why not try out the younger guy who will (hopefully) still be there next year, rather than playing a guy who's (1) not very good and (2) will be gone?

Well, when you put it that way.....
 
I included more than QBR. Every QB has drops. It happens. Clemson has a wide-out who's dropped like 6 touchdown passes this year. In every stat, Collin Hill is in the bottom half of the country. I don't see how you can look at the other games and say he's been solid for everything but LSU.

  • We'll cover LSU first. Coming into the week, LSU had allowed 381 yards a game with 10.8 YPA, 3.3 touchdowns per game, and 1.2 INTs a game. This was against competition with a combined record of 3-8 (only Mizzou has a win over a team other than LSU). Hill had 160 yards less with 1 TD and 1 INT.
  • Florida has an atrocious passing defense. Hill did have 200 yards, but he did it on nearly 50 pass attempts. That YPA (4.4) is worse than every single QB to play at least 2 games. And for comparison, Ole Miss had over 13 YPA and A&M 9.4 YPA against Florida.
  • Against Auburn, he had 144 yards on 24 attempts. That is a lower total yards and YPA than all their other opponents, which include Georgia, Kentucky, Arkansas, and Ole Miss. He similarly did worse than A&M and LSU against Vandy.
The only game you can say he's played okay in was Tennessee. While he's not very close in YPA to Bazelon's, Bennett's, or Mac Jones's play against Tennessee, he had a lot of yards and he beat out Terry Wilson in YPA. Of course, there's more to the story, as Terry Wilson completed 80% of his passes and only attempted 15 short passes (they ran it 45 times as their defense controlled the game).

So no matter what game you pick, Hill has been outplayed by every other QB to play that team. Do you really think South Carolina has worse receivers than all these other teams including Vandy, Kentucky, Ole Miss, and Arkansas? But maybe the statistics are unfair. Passing stats don't matter if a QB is dynamic and can spark teams with his feet. Georgia Tech's and Coastal's QBs are examples of that. Their passing games aren't great, but they make plays with their feet making their offenses dangerous if you don't account for them. But Hill has 38 carries for 33 yards, making his -1.2 YPC one of the fifteen worst in college football.

As I said, I don't know if Hilinski is better than Hill. But here's what I do know. Despite playing some bad teams, South Carolina has been outplayed in every game but Vandy. In those matchups, Hill has some of the worst stats in college football. Last year, as a true freshman, Hilinski faced far better teams than Hill has thus far. He faced 6 ranked teams and 9 top 50 defenses. Despite that, he had a 113.4 QBR compared to Hill's current 59.3. He had a much better TD to INT ratio and was much better at avoiding sacks. And he had some games where he played really well, especially against Alabama, Tennessee, and Georgia. There are no games you can point to for Hill yet.

Despite all of this, Hilinski has not been allowed to throw a single pass this year. Again, I have no crush on Hilinski. He's certainly no superstar. But you're a lost cause if you can look at these rock hard facts and say Bobo's actions are logical. Rather, it points to Bobo's extreme incompetence (which you can see all the way back to UGA, where he perennially took top 5 NFL talent and rarely turned it into a top 25 offense), especially considering Hilinski is young and will get better with more practice and development, and Hill is at the very end of his career. This season is a wash. Why not try out the younger guy who will (hopefully) still be there next year, rather than playing a guy who's (1) not very good and (2) will be gone?

This is probably the best argument posted against Hill I’ve seen. Hear me out...I’m not saying Hill is a stud by any means. Hill does a lot of things that we haven’t had since Dylan Thompson...including Hilinski. He, before LSU, gave his WR opportunities to make plays. They didn’t make a lot of them, but he put the ball where it had to go.

I do actually believe our WRs are no better or worse than the teams mentioned outside of Vandy. We have guys that simply do not play the position well. I have a hard time giving Hilinski credit for all 3 of those good games listed considering one we got blasted in and scored only 21 points (Tennessee), the other he missed half the game (Georgia). Alabama he did play well. But Hilinski regressed a lot last season...maybe it was injury...I know that contributed to it. But it felt like more than just injury. I have to admit I lost a lot of hope when he threw that ball, to a wide open Bryan Edwards, out of bounds as time expired. complete that pass and we don’t necessarily win, as there was a penalty, but we at least get another shot.

Hill can’t have another game like he did against LSU. If he does, he has to be benched. But Hill isn’t going to light the world on fire in this offense. Nobody is. Trevor Lawrence would look slightly above average in this offense with this talent.

You make some good points. Much better than someone that just has a man crush on a player. We need better play. But I’m still not sure Hilinski is the long term guy. And I do believe Hill would be able to come back next season. I’d predict we saw the worst of Hill and we’ll probably see it again. I think Hilinski will start games this season.
 
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This is probably the best argument posted against Hill I’ve seen. Hear me out...I’m not saying Hill is a stud by any means. Hill does a lot of things that we haven’t had since Dylan Thompson...including Hilinski. He, before LSU, gave his WR opportunities to make plays. They didn’t make a lot of them, but he put the ball where it had to go.

I do actually believe our WRs are no better or worse than the teams mentioned outside of Vandy. We have guys that simply do not play the position well. I have a hard time giving Hilinski credit for all 3 of those good games listed considering one we got blasted in and scored only 21 points (Tennessee), the other he missed half the game (Georgia). Alabama he did play well. But Hilinski regressed a lot last season...maybe it was injury...I know that contributed to it. But it felt like more than just injury. I have to admit I lost a lot of hope when he threw that ball, to a wide open Bryan Edwards, out of bounds as time expired. complete that pass and we don’t necessarily win, as there was a penalty, but we at least get another shot.

Hill can’t have another game like he did against LSU. If he does, he has to be benched. But Hill isn’t going to light the world on fire in this offense. Nobody is. Trevor Lawrence would look slightly above average in this offense with this talent.

You make some good points. Much better than someone that just has a man crush on a player. We need better play. But I’m still not sure Hilinski is the long term guy. And I do believe Hill would be able to come back next season. I’d predict we saw the worst of Hill and we’ll probably see it again. I think Hilinski will start games this season.

You would also have to concede that we have seen the best of Hill. Even at his very, very best as a 5th year senior under the same OC in the same offensive system, he hasn't been very good. Maybe not atrocious, but not very good. Hill is not going to get any better than what we've seen. 5th year seniors don't magically get better midway their last season.

Hilinski understandably had his ups and downs last year as a true freshman. As I would expect from most talented true freshman QBs coming into the SEC, he had moments where he looked very, very good and moments where he looked totally in over his head. Like Hill, he had little help offensively last year. Unlike Hill, who has the benefit of playing in offense that's organized and has a coherent strategy, Hilinski was playing in a much more disorganized offensive system with no coherent strategy.

We can have a reasonable discussion about it without accusing people of being Hill/Hilinski haters or having man-crushes.

Question: Isn't at least conceivable to think that Hilinski would fare better this year than he did last year by playing in legitimate offensive system and with a legitimate run game?

So that's pretty much where I am. We have seen the best Hill can be, and that's bottom half of the league. While Hilinski had his rough moments as a true freshman, it's entirely reasonable to think he'd improve from his freshman season to his sophomore season (and with the benefits mentioned above).
 
You would also have to concede that we have seen the best of Hill. Even at his very, very best as a 5th year senior under the same OC in the same offensive system, he hasn't been very good. Maybe not atrocious, but not very good. Hill is not going to get any better than what we've seen. 5th year seniors don't magically get better midway their last season.

Hilinski understandably had his ups and downs last year as a true freshman. As I would expect from most talented true freshman QBs coming into the SEC, he had moments where he looked very, very good and moments where he looked totally in over his head. Like Hill, he had little help offensively last year. Unlike Hill, who has the benefit of playing in offense that's organized and has a coherent strategy, Hilinski was playing in a much more disorganized offensive system with no coherent strategy.

We can have a reasonable discussion about it without accusing people of being Hill/Hilinski haters or having man-crushes.

Question: Isn't at least conceivable to think that Hilinski would fare better this year than he did last year by playing in legitimate offensive system and with a legitimate run game?

So that's pretty much where I am. We have seen the best Hill can be, and that's bottom half of the league. While Hilinski had his rough moments as a true freshman, it's entirely reasonable to think he'd improve from his freshman season to his sophomore season (and with the benefits mentioned above).

Im not there yet. Hill has done things that has given our team opportunities to win. Before the LSU game Hill wasn’t the problem. If Hill plays like this again, then it’s a problem and I’m fine giving Hilinski the job moving forward.

I think we’ll miss some of the things Hill does well, but there will be other things that Hilinski brings that Hill doesn’t.

And I agree we can have reasonable discussions about it without accusing people of having a mancrush...but the OP of this thread and the one that resurrected it started another thread in which it was obvious his issue is just being a Hilinski fan and not liking the idea of a transfer having the position. That’s his basis. and even after being banned he’s created at least 2 more usernames to keep going on and on about it.

I think most are reasonable when it comes to Hill / Hilinski. He isn’t. That’s who those comments were aimed at, and rightfully so.
 
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And LOL at trying to say the LSU that whipped South Carolina is the same as they were last year. They lost everyone. And are #98 in passing defense.
Lol all you want podner. LSU is still LSU. Top 5 recruiting classes. They don't "recruit", they decide who to turn away. Two weeks to prepare for us. At Death Valley. At night.

Believe what you want to believe friend.

I think we’ll miss some of the things Hill does well, but there will be other things that Hilinski brings that Hill doesn’t.
Please tell me what these "other things" are. No shade at Hilinski; I desperately WANT him to be the guy. But whatever it is you guys saw in Hilinski last year even before injured, I did not. I'll take Hill. Mof, I've been THANKFUL for Hill.
 
Lol all you want podner. LSU is still LSU. Top 5 recruiting classes. They don't "recruit", they decide who to turn away. Two weeks to prepare for us. At Death Valley. At night.

Believe what you want to believe friend.


Please tell me what these "other things" are. No shade at Hilinski; I desperately WANT him to be the guy. But whatever it is you guys saw in Hilinski last year even before injured, I did not. I'll take Hill. Mof, I've been THANKFUL for Hill.

Have you not seen all of my posts on here defending Hill? I’m all about supporting Hill. Comical you lump me in with “other guys”. You clearly haven’t read the entirety of my posts.

But to answer the question... the ONLY thing I see Hilinski do better (not that he’s gifted at it) is extend plays. Hilinski is by no means mobile but Hill has taken some bad sacks. Not all sacks are bad as some thing, but he has taken some bad ones. Personally I’d rather have Hill’s ability to put the ball where it needs to go. He gives WRs opportunity to make plays. They just haven’t made many.
 
Have you not seen all of my posts on here defending Hill? I’m all about supporting Hill. Comical you lump me in with “other guys”. You clearly haven’t read the entirety of my posts.

But to answer the question... the ONLY thing I see Hilinski do better (not that he’s gifted at it) is extend plays. Hilinski is by no means mobile but Hill has taken some bad sacks. Not all sacks are bad as some thing, but he has taken some bad ones. Personally I’d rather have Hill’s ability to put the ball where it needs to go. He gives WRs opportunity to make plays. They just haven’t made many.

The main issue I have people passing judgement on Hilinski is that all analysis assumes he would have made absolutely no progress from last year to this year. I mean, come on, he was a true freshman who was supposed to red shirt last season, but ended up starting in his second game. MOST players do make noticeable progress from year one to year two.
 
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This is a fallacy. I’m not a Tater fan but in Watson’s first year the first few games he was splitting time with Cole Stoudt. Watson was a better QB at 13 than Stoudt ever will be. It was obvious. Hate using a Tater example but can’t think of one right off the bat here.

This assumes coaches are perfect and never make mistakes. They are human and screw up. Even if you don’t want to label it a coaching screw up some guys just choke when you put on the game jerseys and cut on the lights and put butts in the stands.
THIS!!!!
If you're a grad transfer....you'd better be WAY better. I think if you've come to any program under these circumstances, you are a guest and helpful mercenary should an injury occur to the starter. What I don't like is you threaten to run off a really good looking younger player. We all know you need 2-3 QBs in the SEC...but by rolling with the new guy, you may lose 2 (Hilinski forever) and Hill when he gets hurt. With his history and now playing in SEC...it's not a question of IF but WHEN.
I understand he knows the offense, and so (especially in a normal spring) he would be better earlier....but given what we're doing this year, and the actual run game that exists...hard for me to believe Hilinski can't do it as well, if not better.
 
Have you not seen all of my posts on here defending Hill? I’m all about supporting Hill. Comical you lump me in with “other guys”. You clearly haven’t read the entirety of my posts.

But to answer the question... the ONLY thing I see Hilinski do better (not that he’s gifted at it) is extend plays. Hilinski is by no means mobile but Hill has taken some bad sacks. Not all sacks are bad as some thing, but he has taken some bad ones. Personally I’d rather have Hill’s ability to put the ball where it needs to go. He gives WRs opportunity to make plays. They just haven’t made many.
Hill has been sacked as many times in 5 games as Hilinski was all of last season. We will never have a solid oline with Wolford but there is no way this oline is that much worse than last year.
 
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