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Holbrook honeymoon should be over... he inherited an elite program but

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CapHillCock

Well-Known Member
Aug 19, 2011
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it has declined every year since he took the top job. loss super regional, loss home regional, and this season is shaping up to be the worst of the 3.
He may be a good recruiter and assistant, but he seems to be like a deer in headlights sitting back in the dugout as the head guy
I know a lot you apologists defend him and lecture us realists to be patient.
But we waited for a 100 years to be elite in some sport and it is a shame what has happened since we finally reached that pinnacle with one of our teams.
Not too sold on Tanner as AD either- this is a diff era in college sports and seems to require a business executive background and not a coaching peer back slapper.
We have had quite a run as a program the last 4-5 years in football and baseball- and it was great- but we seem to be falling back to our historic mediocrity
Really wished the last few years would have lasted longer- but not hopeful in either sport.
 
Originally posted by CapHillCock:
it has declined every year since he took the top job. loss super regional, loss home regional, and this season is shaping up to be the worst of the 3.
He may be a good recruiter and assistant, but he seems to be like a deer in headlights sitting back in the dugout as the head guy
I know a lot you apologists defend him and lecture us realists to be patient.
But we waited for a 100 years to be elite in some sport and it is a shame what has happened since we finally reached that pinnacle with one of our teams.
Not too sold on Tanner as AD either- this is a diff era in college sports and seems to require a business executive background and not a coaching peer back slapper.
We have had quite a run as a program the last 4-5 years in football and baseball- and it was great- but we seem to be falling back to our historic mediocrity
Really wished the last few years would have lasted longer- but not hopeful in either sport.
Click to expand...
Head baseball coach learning on the job. Athletic director learning on the job. Not a good combination. Tanner will give Holbrook the benefit of the doubt and then some. A little scary thinking about when it comes time to hire Spurrier's replacement.
 
Like I've said before, an AD is judged by fires and hires-not keeping current coaches happy. I'm not saying anyone needs to be canned right now.
 
I think Tanner is in over his head. Doesn't want to hurt anyone's feelings. Can't see him firing Holbrook, even though he ought to at this point.

Tanner has been great at getting renovations and projects going around USC, but I'm worried that when the time comes to replace Spurrier that he's going to epically screw it up.
 
I really hate to say I agree with Hyman's thpoughts that Tanner shouldn't

have been hired. I thought Tanner had what it took to make the tough decisions even if it meant firing a friend. I should've know if he'll keep Berson around then he'll accept mediocrity. I REALLY like Holbrook. Great guy. Would trust him to hell in back with my kid but I don't think he's got the "it" factor to be a great coach. With our best-in-nation Carolina Stadium and baseball fans there's no excuse no to have the best players out there. We're losing to all unranked teams, blowing late leads, making stupid errors, leaving all kinds of men on bases. Its the same thing that killed us last season. You see each successive season get worse and worse. I guess I can say we at least experienced the "glory years" in football and baseball that my dad never got to experience so that's something.
 
Did Hyman say the bot shouldn't hire tanner? If so, I'm totally changing my tune and saying it was the right move. Hyman was an accountant masquerading as an athletic director. Man lived off McGee's decisions. And yes, he hired fat brad, but to say sc athletics was in disastrous shape when McGee took over from Dixon is an epic understatement.
 
Originally posted by CapHillCock:
it has declined every year since he took the top job. loss super regional, loss home regional, and this season is shaping up to be the worst of the 3.
He may be a good recruiter and assistant, but he seems to be like a deer in headlights sitting back in the dugout as the head guy
I know a lot you apologists defend him and lecture us realists to be patient.
But we waited for a 100 years to be elite in some sport and it is a shame what has happened since we finally reached that pinnacle with one of our teams.
Not too sold on Tanner as AD either- this is a diff era in college sports and seems to require a business executive background and not a coaching peer back slapper.
We have had quite a run as a program the last 4-5 years in football and baseball- and it was great- but we seem to be falling back to our historic mediocrity
Really wished the last few years would have lasted longer- but not hopeful in either sport.
Click to expand...
Spot on, and agree on all points, except two... not so sure that CH is even a good recruiter. We have only two pure hitters on this team, not much else for offense. His decision making skills seems to be questionable at times. I realize that no coach ever makes perfect decisions on line ups, play calling, when to sub in players, etc. every game.

Also, I think the jury is still out on whether or not RT will make a good AD, it's just too early to tell yet.

It seems to me that CH is suffering from the same fate that got Coach Ward demoted. When Ward had the great players on the previous football squads, they helped cover up his poor coaching and development skills. Last year, after most of those great & talented players were gone, there was no where for his poor coaching ability to hide. (Granted, even a great DC would have had a tough time with the lack of talent we had last year.)

Since Holbrook became the HC, most of the current players (maybe all?) are now guys that Holbrook recruited and fewer and fewer that he and Tanner recruited together. Coach Holbrook's teams seem to have less and less talent, at least hitting and fielding.

So what's going to happen next is someone will come along and point out how all teams have their up's and down's, including the previous USC teams when Tanner was head coach, as well as none of us know anything about baseball.
 
Never liked the Tanner promotion to AD! He did great things with the baseball program, but my gut always said he was the wrong hire for AD, and Holbrook as new baseball coach. So far,I think my gut feeling is correct. Still wish we had Hyman as our AD! I know that will upset the fools and clowns on this forum, LMAO.
 
Originally posted by Bongsummers:
Did Hyman say the bot shouldn't hire tanner? If so, I'm totally changing my tune and saying it was the right move. Hyman was an accountant masquerading as an athletic director. Man lived off McGee's decisions. And yes, he hired fat brad, but to say sc athletics was in disastrous shape when McGee took over from Dixon is an epic understatement.
Click to expand...
Yup...
 
Disagree. The last week not going like we'd all like, but calling for a coach's head is not the answer. (if that were the answer, Tanner would have been canned after 2004 and before 2010. I have no problem with the previous two seasons... Omaha is ultimate goal but nobody makes it every year. 2 40+ win seasons last 2 years, postseason - we're still in it.

As for this year - disappointed in the last week, but still a lot to play. Not every decision works. Tanner had a nice run at the end of his career where every decision turned to gold. That's baseball.

At some point, players have to be responsible for playing. Get a hit with runners on base (28 stranded in 2 games?). Coaches aren't the ones not getting hits. They're not the ones making an error. Disappointed but I won't bash my team and coach like a petulant child who can't have a lollipop. Some of our fans don't have the guts to stick with a team when things get tough.

We all want the same thing, but you're not going to get it every year. Go Gamecocks. Take game 3 and move on from there!
 
I said from day one that I loved Tanner but I thought he was too nice to be an AD. I still stand by that statement. This team is not getting better and Holbrook is starting to look very "Leggett like" with the team. He is tight...the team is tight....and there are little if any adjustments from game to game. It's turned into a blame game of sorts. He needs to change his approach in every way (is that possible ?) or we need to re evaluate the direction we are going. It's becoming a down hill slide.....this is not a fun program and I hope we don't pull a clemsux and hold on to a baseball coach too long. What a difference a week of loses can do to change your mind about a coach.
 
Well said, Jason Scott. Lots of parity in college baseball today.
 
Originally posted by JasonScottinSC:
Disagree. The last week not going like we'd all like, but calling for a coach's head is not the answer. (if that were the answer, Tanner would have been canned after 2004 and before 2010. I have no problem with the previous two seasons... Omaha is ultimate goal but nobody makes it every year. 2 40+ win seasons last 2 years, postseason - we're still in it.

As for this year - disappointed in the last week, but still a lot to play. Not every decision works. Tanner had a nice run at the end of his career where every decision turned to gold. That's baseball.

At some point, players have to be responsible for playing. Get a hit with runners on base (28 stranded in 2 games?). Coaches aren't the ones not getting hits. They're not the ones making an error.[/B] Disappointed but I won't bash my team and coach like a petulant child who can't have a lollipop. Some of our fans don't have the guts to stick with a team when things get tough.

We all want the same thing, but you're not going to get it every year. Go Gamecocks. Take game 3 and move on from there!
Click to expand...
This..........I am not baseball smart enough to say how good or bad CH is but I know the above I bolded to be true.
 
Originally posted by JasonScottinSC:
Disagree. The last week not going like we'd all like, but calling for a coach's head is not the answer. (if that were the answer, Tanner would have been canned after 2004 and before 2010. I have no problem with the previous two seasons... Omaha is ultimate goal but nobody makes it every year. 2 40+ win seasons last 2 years, postseason - we're still in it.

As for this year - disappointed in the last week, but still a lot to play. Not every decision works. Tanner had a nice run at the end of his career where every decision turned to gold. That's baseball.

At some point, players have to be responsible for playing. Get a hit with runners on base (28 stranded in 2 games?). Coaches aren't the ones not getting hits. They're not the ones making an error. Disappointed but I won't bash my team and coach like a petulant child who can't have a lollipop. Some of our fans don't have the guts to stick with a team when things get tough.

We all want the same thing, but you're not going to get it every year. Go Gamecocks. Take game 3 and move on from there!
Click to expand...
sc fans can't stick it out during the rough times. Oh my. Counterpoint: Previous 100 plus years. Nuff said.

and let's compromise on Chad. Clearly he's not getting fired. But let's not give him a raise or contract extension if the team has a bad year. Just a thought.
 
We are reduced to scoreboard watching,hoping for help. To lose to a subpar uga is unacceptable. Chad cant hit for his players,or field for his players. But he sure as hell can pick who he offers. His evals should be the biggest problem we,as diehards,have a problem with. He has made Coach Meiers look ordinary,when we have seen how awesome a job he did under RT.I dont know enough about baseball to expand on the CH/JM relationship,but I DO KNOW our pitching staff has declined,as far as depth goes. I have no answers. We have two studs and nothing else when talking about consistency.
 
Re: You have not been paying attention AT ALL, if you think

that this is about the last week....geez.


Most of the realists have been pointing at the slow demise under Holbrook for nearly two years.......most of those apologists whom posted your type drivel back then have shut up now...wondering how they were unable to see what the people whom they attacked back then were able to understand and see that they entirely missed.

But there are always new ones to show up and post "not happy with the last week or game, but still lots to play for..." shtick.


At least pay attention......one more time, you can face it now or later, but Holbrook was given the keys to a Bentley with a full tank of gas and has driven it into the ditch...he will NEVER have had a better environment in recruiting to pick and choose the players with which HE wanted to load this team with ALL-SEC\NCAA players at nearly every position....he took over a program fresh from an NCAA title game after back-to-back NatChamps, and in addition, SC had just built perhaps the best baseball facility in the country and without a doubt the best in the southeast.

Instead of All-SEC type players at every position, the result has been a team of .198 hitting 'defensive' players whom make 4 or 5 errors a game. No other team in the SEC looks at the SC batting order as anything other than as a chance to greatly improve their ERAa and there is not a single player on this team whom scares any teams. Hades, we are reduced to bunting our 3, 4, and 5 hitters to scratch out runs when we are down 4-0. There will not be a single member of this horrid hitting team on the All-SEC and they would struggle to make a real ALL-South Carolina team. You want to post your dreams and fantasies about when Holbrook will face a better environment for getting players to SC than he enjoyed? Posted two years ago that Holbrook better hire a better hitting analyst for recruiting good hitters because they were doing a horrid job of identifying quality SEC hitters....got blasted by your type back then too..

Face it now or later, the Holbrook experiment is over, he blew it and it is only a question now as to when it will be shut down and how much damage it does before then...hopefully the usual suspects do not allow it to become a Darrin Horn-type clusterfreak.....which destroys our baseball program for a decade.



This post was edited on 3/29 10:10 AM by SClanding
 
Originally posted by tailgatecock:
Never liked the Tanner promotion to AD! He did great things with the baseball program, but my gut always said he was the wrong hire for AD, and Holbrook as new baseball coach. So far,I think my gut feeling is correct. Still wish we had Hyman as our AD! I know that will upset the fools and clowns on this forum, LMAO.
Click to expand...
All Hyman cared about was money. Why do you think he ran to Texas A&M ? You guys think that Holbrook and Martin will be fired after year 3 is laugable at best. Not going to happen.
 
Originally posted by FightinRooster:


Originally posted by CapHillCock:
it has declined every year since he took the top job. loss super regional, loss home regional, and this season is shaping up to be the worst of the 3.
He may be a good recruiter and assistant, but he seems to be like a deer in headlights sitting back in the dugout as the head guy
I know a lot you apologists defend him and lecture us realists to be patient.
But we waited for a 100 years to be elite in some sport and it is a shame what has happened since we finally reached that pinnacle with one of our teams.
Not too sold on Tanner as AD either- this is a diff era in college sports and seems to require a business executive background and not a coaching peer back slapper.
We have had quite a run as a program the last 4-5 years in football and baseball- and it was great- but we seem to be falling back to our historic mediocrity
Really wished the last few years would have lasted longer- but not hopeful in either sport.
Click to expand...
Head baseball coach learning on the job. Athletic director learning on the job. Not a good combination. Tanner will give Holbrook the benefit of the doubt and then some. A little scary thinking about when it comes time to hire Spurrier's replacement.
Click to expand...
THIS ^^^^ is what Pastidis should have told Tanner when he was pressing to 'come in from the heat' (Head Baseball Coach). We lost one of the best college coaches in the game and (like him or not) an experienced, professional AD - at the same time. A disastrous recipe for a program vastly (and quickly) on the rise (like we WERE).

To be honest, we needed one hell of an SOB for an AD - one who wouldn't blink first with anyone . . . even when talking business with SOS whom I don't think he respects.
 
Re: You have not been paying attention AT ALL, if you think

Originally posted by SClanding:
that this is about the last week....geez.


Most of the realists have been pointing at the slow demise under Holbrook for nearly two years......






This post was edited on 3/29 10:10 AM by SClanding
Click to expand...
These "realist" that you speak of are the same crowd that claimed Tanner was washed up and had taken us as far as he could in 2008-2009. And now they're doubting his ability as AD and trashing Holbrook in his 3rd year as hc...all because they can't handle a little adversity.

Tanner is doing a fine job as AD. This is his dream job that he has been holding out for and preparing himself for since he came to USC. We are fortunate the timing was right and we could keep him here. I believe he will do great things before his time as AD is over and he'll be around longer than our last 3 AD's. It's great to have someone running the show that has ties to and actually cares about the university and our sports programs. And having fans that don't consider all the duties and responsibilities of an AD calling him out because they aren't happy with one coach is beyond ridiculous. It's about as immature as the little car comparisons. I really wonder where this sense of entitlement some of our fans have comes from.

No one is getting fired this year so "the realist" need to learn to get behind the coaches and players or go find a hobby other than throwing tantrums on message boards.
 
^
Messageboards are as much for venting frustration as they are celebrating success. If you don't like it, ignore it.
 
These players were recruited by Holbrook as were the players Tanner played with. To me the difference is Tanner got the talent of his players to come to the top. Holbrook has not done that. I don't know how long his contract is for but if this stays the same at the end of his contract he should be fired.
 
Re: No they weren't......Tanner was winning but having

problems getting past the final steps to Omaha.....it is bum-covering to compare Tanner with the Bentley which Holbrook was given.

That is asinine.....to compare Tanner working to put together a solid program and getting to Omaha with a coach taking over a 3 time NCAA championship game team with the best stadium in the Southeast......putting together this team in his 3rd year with not a single SEC team member and a leading hitter batting around .237 after today....well

You need to tell everyone when and under what circumstances, this current staff will EVER find itself with the recruiting situation better than when they took over? NEVER.....and this is collection of players is what they thought was SEC quality hitting????

I am not a pessimist by nature, Holbrook will not be fired this year, but just don't let your cheerleading squad lead us down another Darrin-horn type debacle where ego causes the destruction of the program to where he fans are so mad at the ADs they stop showing up and refuse to until the team is not a mirage.....see men's basketball for what your type can cause...
 
Originally posted by pepsicock:
Originally posted by tailgatecock:
Never liked the Tanner promotion to AD! He did great things with the baseball program, but my gut always said he was the wrong hire for AD, and Holbrook as new baseball coach. So far,I think my gut feeling is correct. Still wish we had Hyman as our AD! I know that will upset the fools and clowns on this forum, LMAO.
Click to expand...
All Hyman cared about was money. Why do you think he ran to Texas A&M ? You guys think that Holbrook and Martin will be fired after year 3 is laugable at best. Not going to happen.
Click to expand...
Hyman "ran" to College Station because his children live in TX.
 
Re: You have not been paying attention AT ALL, if you think

Originally posted by Bigger_Stronger_Faster:
Originally posted by SClanding:
that this is about the last week....geez.


Most of the realists have been pointing at the slow demise under Holbrook for nearly two years......






This post was edited on 3/29 10:10 AM by SClanding
Click to expand...
These "realist" that you speak of are the same crowd that claimed Tanner was washed up and had taken us as far as he could in 2008-2009. And now they're doubting his ability as AD and trashing Holbrook in his 3rd year as hc...all because they can't handle a little adversity.

Tanner is doing a fine job as AD. This is his dream job that he has been holding out for and preparing himself for since he came to USC. We are fortunate the timing was right and we could keep him here. I believe he will do great things before his time as AD is over and he'll be around longer than our last 3 AD's. It's great to have someone running the show that has ties to and actually cares about the university and our sports programs. And having fans that don't consider all the duties and responsibilities of an AD calling him out because they aren't happy with one coach is beyond ridiculous. It's about as immature as the little car comparisons. I really wonder where this sense of entitlement some of our fans have comes from.

No one is getting fired this year so "the realist" need to learn to get behind the coaches and players or go find a hobby other than throwing tantrums on message boards.
Click to expand...
Tanner has been working in athletics administration ever since he was at NCSU, and took on "extra work" towards that goal. Further, I'm sure he has a great support staff in the USC athletic department to "assist."
 
Holbrook was handed a Rolls Royce and has turned it into a VW Beetle. We are losing to AMC Gremlins like Clemson, Winthrop and Georgia. Something needs to change. He needs to recruit more offense. The hitting and fielding have become offensive.
 
Re: No they weren't......Tanner was winning but having

Whew...that was close, Holbrook can stay another week as the coach, but buddy you are on a short leash.
 
Yeah, the honeymoon has been over, but it's not time for pitchforks and torches yet either. It's time for arms cross and fingers drumming on our upper arms with scowls on our faces.
 
Manchester United Football Club...

...hired Alex Ferguson in the late 80's, after decades of mediocrity, while their arch-rivals (Liverpool) ruled England and Europe. It didn't start well for him. He was one game away from being fired. In the 25 years after that, he won every trophy minted, and not only surpassed Liverpool but left them choking the dust from their boots. He's been knighted by the Queen, and now you can take in a Man Utd game in the Sir Alex Ferguson Stand.

He went out in a blaze of glory, winning another Premier League title in his final season. He hand picked his successor. Another Scotsman with a similar, humble beginning. But he had to follow a legend. Sir Alex pleaded for the fans' patience. What happened the next season? They sucked. The new manager didn't last the full season. The hand picked successor was a national joke. ("Well that didn't turn out like we'd hoped").

But when pundits discussed Fergusons brilliance as manager, they'd also say, "He knew when to get out..."
 
Originally posted by stevestrat2:


Originally posted by JasonScottinSC:
Disagree. The last week not going like we'd all like, but calling for a coach's head is not the answer. (if that were the answer, Tanner would have been canned after 2004 and before 2010. I have no problem with the previous two seasons... Omaha is ultimate goal but nobody makes it every year. 2 40+ win seasons last 2 years, postseason - we're still in it.

As for this year - disappointed in the last week, but still a lot to play. Not every decision works. Tanner had a nice run at the end of his career where every decision turned to gold. That's baseball.

At some point, players have to be responsible for playing. Get a hit with runners on base (28 stranded in 2 games?). Coaches aren't the ones not getting hits. They're not the ones making an error.[/B] Disappointed but I won't bash my team and coach like a petulant child who can't have a lollipop. Some of our fans don't have the guts to stick with a team when things get tough.

We all want the same thing, but you're not going to get it every year. Go Gamecocks. Take game 3 and move on from there!
Click to expand...
This..........I am not baseball smart enough to say how good or bad CH is but I know the above I bolded to be true.
Click to expand...
I'm reserving my judgment on CCH, as you all well know by now. BUT it still amazes me how some fans seem to think that coaches can somehow miraculously make guys hit or make them stop committing errors. Unless the coach is the one with bat in his hand or the glove on, the coach ultimately has no true control over hitting/fielding. It would be nice if we could have 9 KMarts out there or 9 Elliott Caldwells, or a good mixture of both, but we don't. They can't do it all on their own. The other guys have got to step up.

I will say, however, I think some of the problems with errors is that the positions are shuffled too much and guys can't get in sync playing together. I'm sorry, but I'm one of the old school believers that by the time you start SEC play you have a set lineup for the weekend. You might be able to play with it on Sunday, but Fri/Sat is set in stone. There is no question who is playing where (barring injury).
 
Im not for or against Holbrook BUT I am for winning! If it's Holbrook that's fine, if it's not that's fine too.

Holbrook is no different than any other coach out there, he's only as good as his assistants make him look.

Look at Legget, he lost Corbin and O'Sullivan and their program has suffered. Maybe Holbrook doesn't have the righ mix of coaches right now.

Being a nice head coach doesn't get the job done. Being an aggressive head coach that fixes problems does. If we need a hitting coach, go get a freaking hitting coach and swallow some pride!
 
From day one, I was against the move of Tanner to AD, and Chad to head coach! Nothing against them.Tanner was a great head coach and Chad as an assistant and recruiter. But year three into this experiment, I think the facts are on my side. Go for it sunshine pumpers!
 
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