How did Clemson become elite overnight?
- Thread starter KirbysDawgs
- Start date
Ugeleilu pardon my spelling, is nowhere near Trevor Lawrence....... He is a 5 star but he's a 5 star on tools alone.... Trevor was the total package from day 1..
Bottomline is because their fans and donors demand it . They have always viewed themselves as a top tier program even when they were not . After their first championship almost forty years ago their expectations every year was to be a challenger for the title . Look at the coaching records of guys like Hatfield and Tommy Bowden . Those guys won consistently and they fired them because it wasn’t good enough. Tommy Bowden would have gotten a statue in Columbia . Dabo knew that if he didn’t make tough decisions and fire some people close to him his head was next . Clemson was recruiting very well before Dabo so that piece was already there . The two biggest factors in my opinion were the 5 losses in a row to us and the obliteration by West Virginia in the Orange Bowl . That opened the door for Venerables and that was the turning point .
I think it took Nick 11 years of being a head coach to win his first national championship and has been coaching over 25. Dabo won 2 by that time and likely his 3rd by his 11th year. Only time will tell who’s right, but I wouldn’t bet against history saying that Dabo’s the better coach.
If both coaches went on the market today, Dabo would far and away be the most hotly pursued.
That’s a function of age. If a 40-year old Dabo and a 40 year-old Saban went on the market today, I would take a Saban.
I"m sure you wouldn't. If you were in charge of a program, winning titles is of highest priority, you would go for the guy that would get you the most titles in the shortest period of time. That's Dabo, by a long shot over Nick.
But I understand why you feel you have to say you'd take Nick. Personal bias is nearly impossible to overcome.
I guess we'll have to see. I wouldn't be upset if you're wrong. I just don't know if I would make claims like that yet.
Just because Dabo has won 2 of 3, that doesn’t mean he’s going to win 12 more if he coaches 18 more years. It doesn’t work like that.
Saban won 3 of 4 from 2009 to 2013, but that didn’t mean he was going to win 75% of the titles until retirement. Other teams rise up to challenge. An opponent may have a special player who plays out of his mind against you. NCAA can happen. Who knows?
But it is very unlikely Dabo will match Saban’s overall record of 6 titles in his career. They’ve been playing this game for 150 years on only two men have 6 titles. Odds are firmly against that happening for ‘aw shucks Dabo.
You’re exactly right and I don’t know that anyone else has pointed this out. Dabo held coaches responsible and if they failed, he replaced them with someone better, he didn’t just rotate around his staff.
He's very tight with a good friend of mine. I've drank with him more than once. Dude is a straight mercenary and he is definitely who brought the "playbook of winning" to Clemson.
I've seen him play a few times.... He doesn't translate like Lawrence did at the same time.... He's got a lot of work to do.... I'm not saying he's not going to be good.... He's just not in the ballpark with Lawrence.... In his defense though. Not many people are
Coaching. They have the best player development that any school in the nation. They coach them up, squeeze the most out of every bit of talent they have. They have won 2 out of the last 3 championships going on three out of four, but have not been #1 in recruiting yet.
Lol. I knew before I even read this thread that a certain Clemson troll couldn't help but out himself. I wasn't disappointed.
Regardless if they cheated to rise to this level or not. They certainly don’t have to now. The program recruits itself.
What are the odds... A no-experience WR coach guiding what will be the most dominant 10 or more year stretch in CFB history. NO ONE (even the ones who hired him) saw that.
A Big 12 DC who they wanted out now churning out elite defenses every year.
A walk on WR becomes an unstoppable weapon on the biggest stages. Those three things there are so unlikely. Yet they all happened.
I can’t stand Dabo but he’s smart. Brings in Venables boys to play for job security. Brings in Herbstreits boys as walk ons for added pub.
They have had an incredible streak of good luck with injuries. Wayne Gallman and Etienne have pretty much been totally healthy over the last few years. The Ostarine mystery remains but was largely forgotten.
Yes I do think some concessions were made to get the ball rolling. But with a rock star class due in again this year get used to Dabo’s love affair with the microphone and speaking out against all injustice. They aren’t going away.
What are the odds... A no-experience WR coach guiding what will be the most dominant 10 or more year stretch in CFB history. NO ONE (even the ones who hired him) saw that.
A Big 12 DC who they wanted out now churning out elite defenses every year.
A walk on WR becomes an unstoppable weapon on the biggest stages. Those three things there are so unlikely. Yet they all happened.
I can’t stand Dabo but he’s smart. Brings in Venables boys to play for job security. Brings in Herbstreits boys as walk ons for added pub.
They have had an incredible streak of good luck with injuries. Wayne Gallman and Etienne have pretty much been totally healthy over the last few years. The Ostarine mystery remains but was largely forgotten.
Yes I do think some concessions were made to get the ball rolling. But with a rock star class due in again this year get used to Dabo’s love affair with the microphone and speaking out against all injustice. They aren’t going away.
It wasn’t over night, but it was close to it. Dabo was winning 10/11 games when SC was beating them 5 years straight. In a sense, what kept Dabo from being in the NC picture for a few years prior to 2015 was SC and the lack of a CFP. Had Dabo been able to beat SC some of those years and had there been a CFP, then Clem would have been a 1 loss team and in the playoff conversation.
That said, Dabs seems to be a tireless recruiter of players and assistant coaches. Based on the Thad Turnipseed article it appears Dabs “recruits” his own assistants constantly to “bloom where you are planted” and so those assistants never leave (unless fired), with Scott being the one exception just announced.
I predict Dabo will leave Clem when they go a season or two without making the CFP and their fans grumble. It will be similar to when Spurrier complained about UF fans throwing in the towel on the season after one loss and then Spurrier went to the NFL. Dabs doesn’t seem like someone who will tolerate not being appreciated - he seems to crave the appreciation/attention more than money.
Oh yeah, forgot to add their bag men have been doing it as good as anyone since the 70’s.....so yeah, they have bought their way to some great players.
That said, Dabs seems to be a tireless recruiter of players and assistant coaches. Based on the Thad Turnipseed article it appears Dabs “recruits” his own assistants constantly to “bloom where you are planted” and so those assistants never leave (unless fired), with Scott being the one exception just announced.
I predict Dabo will leave Clem when they go a season or two without making the CFP and their fans grumble. It will be similar to when Spurrier complained about UF fans throwing in the towel on the season after one loss and then Spurrier went to the NFL. Dabs doesn’t seem like someone who will tolerate not being appreciated - he seems to crave the appreciation/attention more than money.
Oh yeah, forgot to add their bag men have been doing it as good as anyone since the 70’s.....so yeah, they have bought their way to some great players.
Perhaps, but all you can do is judge Dabo against Saban at the same points in their careers. Nick has been a head coach for 24 seasons, Dabo for 12. All you can do is just Nick at 12 years against Dabo at 12 years. It's impossible to judge Dabo through 24 seasons b/c he hasn't coached that long yet. Through Nick's first 12 seasons he had a .570 win percentage and 1 title (using numbers adjusted for vacated wins). Through Dabo's first 12 seasons he has ridiculous .811 win percentage and 2 titles in 3 tries, with a shot for a 3rd this year. If they should win this year (I'm picking LSU), it won't even be debatable.
On top of that, Dabo did it by turning a perennially ok program into the dominant program in the sport. Dabo won right where he was and didn't have to looking for a program with built-in advantages. He didn't have to go to a program that was already built for success. Nick was unable to do that at Michigan State, left for LSU and did a bit better with only one REALLY good season. People have forgotten, but his career didn't explode until he got to Bama. That was the perfect marriage of a fantastic coach and a program built for success. Yes, they had fallen into a funk, but they were a traditional power and considered overall the strongest program in the history of college football. Clemson was none of that. Clemson was Clemson. Usually good, never great, sometimes bad. Overall just ok.
Nick's a great coach, but at the same point their careers, Dabo is clearly better.
Quality Selection step by step.
People on this board despise Dabo, even thrashing an entire religion, Christianity, to call him out. So wrong.
It started with his sales ability. While Champ says he can sell ice to Eskimos, Dabo was out essentially doing it. The man was successful selling shopping center store slots at a time shopping centers were starting to crash. He could coach, but he could really sell.
It continues by hiring Chad Morris and a new,special fast offense. The speed threw off defenses until his talent improved. Morris found Deshawn Watkins in 7th grade. They hired Robbie Caldwell to coach the offensive line...outstanding hire. Morris taught Tony Elliott and Jeff Scott the offense. They only improved it.
He then went after Venebles. It proved to be the final coaching piece.
He uses the Clemson community to develop loyalty because of its insularity, but it is really special because it is ALL about football.
Acc Membership allowed them to win enough games at first to help recruiting.. Then they started rolling in top tier players, winning and pushing their unique traditions and growing cadre of talent. It's an appealing place for kids to be drawn to.
The rest is the real ice seller bringing in stars. They know how to evaluate talent, and they use common sense You recruit 6'3" receivers. You recruit mobile QBs. Your QBs must fit your system They target not good defensive lineman but five star highly rated defensive lineman, and get them.
Folks can trash Dabo while he has trashed us for six years and into the future. They are built for sustainability.
There is one other aspect that gets ignored. Danny Ford was a staff offensive line coach when a knowledgeable and insightful AD put him in the slot that led to the 1981 National Championship. Dabo was a staff receivers coach when a knowledgeable and insightful AD put him in the slot that has led to the last six years
It all starts at the top. Hire the right AD, who can take the knowledge he has to work with and assess his own internal talent. Then coaches make quality selection decisions from coaches to players
It's about selection.
As soon as bobs brother needed a job, they dropped him to co coordinator. It’s was all about family name preservation.
Hard to separate sarcasm from actual belief in here.
When you’ve got TL throwing to Tee Higgins, Etienne laying the backbeat, and Connecticut thugs on the D, “coaching” requirements are somewhat relaxed. Please elaborate.
Clemson was greatly helped by FSU cratering.
Perfect Storm: Dabo w/ macro & marketing. Venables w/ micro. CFB Playoff System. FSU timely floundering.
Dabo's role was signficant though. He is a bit of an idiot savant.....Really understood that Clemson could function as a unique niche/entity. Effective ass-clown social media marketing, "creating a culture" etc.
By and large our fans are not as fanatical as theirs. A much larger percentage have their whole identity wrapped up in clem football. And this is not just the country bumpkin, orange overall wearing fans. So many who graduate there and have become successful always have an orange tie on, a lapel pin, or something else denoting that they are a clem fan, at ALL times. Their total identity is in clem football.
Agree. He may develop into a great QB, but guys like Lawrence are few and far between.
As said above somewhere, it didn't happen overnight and while we were kicking their ass 5 years in a row, mainly because they were lacking on the lines of scrimmage and we had a great dline and very serviceable o line , he (Dabo) was concentrating on building up their lines of scrimmage to go along with their great skill talent.The main thing that happened was bringing in a all world qb.That was the key and then they got TL to follow along with the wr's and highly ranked D lineman. All this coincided with the fall of FSU and really no true competition.One all world qb can change everything...ie...Deshawn Watson. Jameis Winston, Cam Newton.Could be Luke Doty for us. Lets pray
It's a combination of a few things.
1- $ Paying players and players families to come there
2- Hiring solid DC and building a blue chip Defense.
3- Getting great Skill players to come and stay ( review #1 )
4- Other strong teams in their conference have all imploded so Clemson has a much easier road to wins and titles
Many teams pay players and families, so I would say the combination of #2 and #4 have kept them at the top.
1- $ Paying players and players families to come there
2- Hiring solid DC and building a blue chip Defense.
3- Getting great Skill players to come and stay ( review #1 )
4- Other strong teams in their conference have all imploded so Clemson has a much easier road to wins and titles
Many teams pay players and families, so I would say the combination of #2 and #4 have kept them at the top.
Is your problem with Newspring, Christianity or Clemson? How you answer will tell us slot about your motivation.Simple to explain the sudden success...The New Spring IPTAY program.
Have you considered that maybe the pay for play that so many believe is being used to the fullest extent, might be related to this?....
"A Clemson basketball assistant was caught on an FBI wiretap discussing the recruitment of Duke star Zion Williamson, according to reports from the ongoing federal trial.
Tigers assistant coach Steve Smith also was recorded talking about Clemson’s national championship football program in wiretaps played in a New York courtroom.
Smith discussed “potential payments to be made to Zion Williamson’s family,” according to reporter Matt Norlander of CBS Sports."
https://www.postandcourier.com/spor...cle_e3935516-6793-11e9-9e7b-e73ec4b9e131.html
On the video wiretap, Smith was speaking to former agent Christian Dawkins (who has since been found guilty and convicted for his role in paying players) and an undercover FBI agent when he brought up the success of Clemson’s football program.
“That’s why football is so successful, is if you do it and use resources at Clemson, like you can really keep everything tight,” Smith said on the video wiretap, according to Matt Norlander of CBS Sports.
Last edited:
Truth bomb?
Clemson probably does not develop in the dominant program in all of college football if not for the 5 straight losses to us.
I would venture to say the same things were said when comparing Lawrence to Watson.
