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How did Clemson become elite overnight?

Is your problem with Newspring, Christianity or Clemson? How you answer will tell us slot about your motivation.
I am a Christian, and attend church weekly. I have many friends (Carolina and Clemson fans)who attend New Spring. I just want the NCAA to do their job and investigate comments that were recorded by the FBI in a wiretap concerning the Zion Williamson bribes that a Clemson basketball coach offered. He also specifically mentioned the football program and the national championship they had just won. The NCAA is no longer about enforcing rules and insuring the integrity of college athletics, they are only concerned about enforcing liberal ideology through the use of sanctions against states with predominately conservative viewpoints. Meanwhile, pay for play and other violations run rampant without any fear of retribution. It is easy to see where the tax exempt status of religious institutions would be the perfect cover for funneling money to recruits, players and their families without creating a paper trail or accountability that could be used for prosecution.
 
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I would venture to say the same things were said when comparing Lawrence to Watson.
No .. you would be wrong.....There was talk by very informed people that he would have been the #1 pick if he were eligible out of high school..... T.L, wether you like him or not, is something we may not see for a while...... I'll be glad when it's over...
 
I would venture to say the same things were said when comparing Lawrence to Watson.

I don't follow the kid all that close, but most of what I've heard in passing is that people in the know believe DJ to be even better than Trevor.

It's all speculation, but there's no reason to believe they'll have a dropoff at the position. Timing works out perfect for Clemson. He'll get to be Trevor's understudy for Trevor's 3rd, and presumably, last year. Then he'll get to step in as the starter with a year in the program under his belt.

At least Clemson isn't in the mix for any of the top 2021 QBs.
 
I've asked this question on the UGA board but most folks over there don't really have an answer and you'd never get a good answer on the Clemp site so maybe I should ask some of you who live in South Carolina. That program while yes had been consistent became a juggernaut in 2015. The year before they went 10-3 but had blowout losses to UGA & GT and even in the years before that they would have nice records but blowout losses to you guys & usually FSU or someone. So my question is how did they turn it around so quickly? They've had the OC/DC for years. Elite players for years. Did they just sell there soul or something?

I don't think any SC fan thinks recruiting top talent doesn't matter; recruiting the right kind of top talent matters. LATELY (last 5 years) Clemson has been unapologetic about this message in recruiting, and have stayed true to recruiting those type of "good character" top guys. The character part comes first...and it has worked well. They have a lot of guys who are great players, but also good students/people. You don't see a lot of the old CU behavior guys getting busted 2-3 per year like yesteryear.
Now.... 5-8 years ago....how did CU get Spiller, Watkins and all those other FL players to arrive at Pickens County, SC instead of Southern Cal, Bama, Georgia, not to mention all 3 big time in-state schools??? Those are the answers I want and where I think a smoking gun can be found.
 
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I am a Christian, and attend church weekly. I have many friends (Carolina and Clemson fans)who attend New Spring. I just want the NCAA to do their job and investigate comments that were recorded by the FBI in a wiretap concerning the Zion Williamson bribes that a Clemson basketball coach offered. He also specifically mentioned the football program and the national championship they had just won. The NCAA is no longer about enforcing rules and insuring the integrity of college athletics, they are only concerned about enforcing liberal ideology through the use of sanctions against states with predominately conservative viewpoints. Meanwhile, pay for play and other violations run rampant without any fear of retribution. It is easy to see where the tax exempt status of religious institutions would be the perfect cover for funneling money to recruits, players and their families without creating a paper trail or accountability that could be used for prosecution.
Understand. I went to Newspring a few times....it was just........loud. But, I caught a Clemson vibe too. Just a vibe though.
 
Nick won his first title at the age of 52. Dabo just now 50 and already has a 2 with a shot for a 3rd.
...and Saban has never Head coached in a women's football conference either. Seriously though...playoff system is new...Saban has done this in past and present unlike anybody else has ever done until they come up with a new system. Playing a uber-weak conf. schedule every year helps with a lot of parts we all want our football programs to have: momentum on the field, positivity around your program, greater chance to avoid quantity and severity of injuries. All of this helps feed recruiting because you are talking about conf. champs every year and playoffs as well.
St. Dabo can pretend to be on the same stage as Saban when he has to win while coaching in the SEC,getting to the conf. champ game, winning it...and then playing 2 other top programs in the country. That means you have to play 5-6 top teams in the country at that point. That don't happen in the ACC.
 
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...The NCAA is no longer about enforcing rules and insuring the integrity of college athletics...
Did they ever, really? It's pretty much always been at best wildly inconsistent.

Since the Penn State debacle (where they were forced to backtrack on some of their sanctions) and the power block known as Power 5 took control of the football championship, the NCAA is in mortal fear of losing any say whatsoever in top FBS football. The Power 5 schools have made it clear they want to run their own show, and will only allow the NCAA to stay involved so long as it suits them.
 
I don't follow the kid all that close, but most of what I've heard in passing is that people in the know believe DJ to be even better than Trevor.

It's all speculation, but there's no reason to believe they'll have a dropoff at the position. Timing works out perfect for Clemson. He'll get to be Trevor's understudy for Trevor's 3rd, and presumably, last year. Then he'll get to step in as the starter with a year in the program under his belt.

At least Clemson isn't in the mix for any of the top 2021 QBs.
The woo-hoo is strong in this one.
 
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Spurrier quit recruiting!

That was likely a factor. Our five straight wins over them was a huge factor, if not the main factor in Clemson's success. We got complacent while they got determined and fired up. Losing 5 in a row to us totally pissed Dabo off.

In a large way, we have nobody to thank for ourselves for Clemson's dominance.
 
i bet 80% of teams would..

What would be your rationale in taking a 40 year old Nick Saban over a 40 year old Dabo Swinney? Keep in mind, all you'd have the time is the data on that person at 40 years old?

At 40, Saban had coached 2 seasons to a combined 15-7-1 record (with a very mediocre 6-5-1 record at Michigan State in his second season). 1 bowl appearance, a loss.

At 40, Swinney had coached about 1.5 seasons to a 13-8 record. 2 bowl appearances, 1 win and 1 loss.
 
...and Saban has never Head coached in a women's football conference either. Seriously though...playoff system is new...Saban has done this in past and present unlike anybody else has ever done until they come up with a new system. Playing a uber-weak conf. schedule every year helps with a lot of parts we all want our football programs to have: momentum on the field, positivity around your program, greater chance to avoid quantity and severity of injuries. All of this helps feed recruiting because you are talking about conf. champs every year and playoffs as well.
St. Dabo can pretend to be on the same stage as Saban when he has to win while coaching in the SEC,getting to the conf. champ game, winning it...and then playing 2 other top programs in the country. That means you have to play 5-6 top teams in the country at that point. That don't happen in the ACC.
Nor does it happen in the SEC East on a regular basis.
 
What would be your rationale in taking a 40 year old Nick Saban over a 40 year old Dabo Swinney? Keep in mind, all you'd have the time is the data on that person at 40 years old?

At 40, Saban had coached 2 seasons to a combined 15-7-1 record (with a very mediocre 6-5-1 record at Michigan State in his second season). 1 bowl appearance, a loss.

At 40, Swinney had coached about 1.5 seasons to a 13-8 record. 2 bowl appearances, 1 win and 1 loss.
HMM lets see..... Plays in the Toughest Conference in America (Not even debatable by your orange glasses) He has won at least 7 SEC titles (Again toughest conference in America) he won National Championships at Different schools, He has what 6 (that is 3 times more than 2) national titles..
 
HMM lets see..... Plays in the Toughest Conference in America (Not even debatable by your orange glasses) He has won at least 7 SEC titles (Again toughest conference in America) he won National Championships at Different schools, He has what 6 (that is 3 times more than 2) national titles..

He has 6 at 66. Dabo had 2 before he was 50.

The weak conference/strong argument again? I would refer to the national title game from last year in which the team from the weak conference issued an absolute curb stomping to the team from the strong conference.
 
I've asked this question on the UGA board but most folks over there don't really have an answer and you'd never get a good answer on the Clemp site so maybe I should ask some of you who live in South Carolina. That program while yes had been consistent became a juggernaut in 2015. The year before they went 10-3 but had blowout losses to UGA & GT and even in the years before that they would have nice records but blowout losses to you guys & usually FSU or someone. So my question is how did they turn it around so quickly? They've had the OC/DC for years. Elite players for years. Did they just sell there soul or something?

They pay their players.

https://www.postandcourier.com/spor...cle_dd2ff182-6db2-11e9-9859-bbc094cb717f.html

Also PEDs

https://www.postandcourier.com/spor...cle_7367fdc8-9380-11e9-8b76-4f3b8d2465fa.html

Just before the first round of the college football playoffs - Less than 20 players were drug tested and 3 of them failed. 125 players on the team. You do the math. What is the probability that only 3 players "accidentally" ingested a PED when only 20 were tested?
 
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They played Russian roulette, laundering money to recruits via New Spring Church, and they won.

Now they run a clean program, straight up rollin'


THIS.
A THOUSAND times this.
Absolutely made up their mind they were gonna get 5 stars by hook or by crook, and that's what they did !
 
He has 6 at 66. Dabo had 2 before he was 50.

The weak conference/strong argument again? I would refer to the national title game from last year in which the team from the weak conference issued an absolute curb stomping to the team from the strong conference.
Get your boy Dablo to 6, (Even coming out of the ACC) then you can compare.. Taters are gonna be ACC champs forever, if the rest of the conference stays Miserable, so that assures them (If they can win a couple outside of conference games, and appearance in the playoffs, Saban doesnt have that same luxury in the SEC..
 
He has 6 at 66. Dabo had 2 before he was 50.

The weak conference/strong argument again? I would refer to the national title game from last year in which the team from the weak conference issued an absolute curb stomping to the team from the strong conference.
The team that got the hell beat out of them week in and week out, attrition my friend, that is why Germany lost WWII, No one would deeny they were the most powerful military at the time..
 
No .. you would be wrong.....There was talk by very informed people that he would have been the #1 pick if he were eligible out of high school..... T.L, wether you like him or not, is something we may not see for a while...... I'll be glad when it's over...
I was actually referring to the “informed” on this board. Don’t have the time or desire to dig through the archives, but if memory serves correctly, there was quite a few here that said he won’t amount to much.
 
I was actually referring to the “informed” on this board. Don’t have the time or desire to dig through the archives, but if memory serves correctly, there was quite a few here that said he won’t amount to much.
Yeah there's always those folks...
 
They didnt become elite overnight....
They became elite slowly and during the midst of us beating them 5 years in a row...they laid a foundation of winning despite some failures and THEN they burst through and havent looked back.
If you think it was overnight though, you're wrong.

This is correct.

They won 60 games in the six seasons before "becoming elite. During our greatest ever run of 33 wins in 3 seasons, they won 32. During the season we had our highest ever EOY ranking at # 4, they also finished in the Top 10. Sure, we beat them five straight but they finished ranked in each of he last four of that string.

Our recruiting collapsed after 2013 while their's did not.
 
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“That's one thing I learned from coach Saban,” he said. “Whatever it takes to be the best, whether it’s psychology, nutrition, I’ve helped push that at Clemson. Whatever it takes, let’s be smart with it, but we’re going to do it. I know it sounds simple, but it’s so rare in college athletics: When the head coach is in line with the (athletics director) and the AD with the trustees and with the president, you can get all those egos aligned that’s when you can be great. That’s what Alabama had and that’s why we’re where we are today.”

Thad Turnipseed quote above, when everyone has the same goal and same vision it makes it easier. What they are doing is impressive even if it is in the ACC but they proved that it can be done. Maybe we will get it done one day
 
I've asked this question on the UGA board but most folks over there don't really have an answer and you'd never get a good answer on the Clemp site so maybe I should ask some of you who live in South Carolina. That program while yes had been consistent became a juggernaut in 2015. The year before they went 10-3 but had blowout losses to UGA & GT and even in the years before that they would have nice records but blowout losses to you guys & usually FSU or someone. So my question is how did they turn it around so quickly? They've had the OC/DC for years. Elite players for years. Did they just sell there soul or something?

$$$$$$ in the most effective places!
 
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Nor does it happen in the SEC East on a regular basis.
I don't give a damn if it's 1997 or 2017...winning any SEC EAST game is hard. Sometimes it's the best sub conference AND part of the hardest conference In the nation (it was for 15 years) and sometimes it's just part of the hardest conference in the nation. Those rotating games from the West are no fun. Give me Wake, Duke, BC and the like all day long over GA, TN, FL
 
He has 6 at 66. Dabo had 2 before he was 50.

The weak conference/strong argument again? I would refer to the national title game from last year in which the team from the weak conference issued an absolute curb stomping to the team from the strong conference.
Yes.....careers aren't made over one game. Also - that "same" argument isn't so much an argument but an accepted way of life. Football is better in the SEC for the last 100 years than the ACC about 98% of the time...so yeah Saban's road is/was and will continue to be much tougher than Penis Head's road is.
 
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I hate that we left the ACC. All of the matchups there are more natural and interesting to me. UNC and NC St or Mizzou and A&M? Please.
I'm not old enough to remember being in the ACC but for me it would only be interesting in basketball. I don't get excited when we play UNC or NC State. Those match-ups seem bland and unappealing. Have you watched many ACC games that didn't involve Clemson? It's a snooze fest. I'd much rather play the likes of UGA, UT, and UF every year. There are always about 80,000 fans going crazy. Go to Wake Forest or Duke and it's a very pedestrian 30-40k. The ACC has always been and will always be a basketball conference. Clemson is the only team doing anything in football.
 
I"m sure you wouldn't. If you were in charge of a program, winning titles is of highest priority, you would go for the guy that would get you the most titles in the shortest period of time. That's Dabo, by a long shot over Nick.

But I understand why you feel you have to say you'd take Nick. Personal bias is nearly impossible to overcome.
Could Dabo have done what he did at any other school? I'm no so sure. He landed in a program with ideal conditions. He didn't have great teams early on(5 blowout losses to USC) but because of an all-around easy schedule they were able to win a bunch of games. Those teams would have had 4-5 losses in the SEC. Would he have lasted 5 seasons like that? Would he have been able to sell the program to recruits without all those victories and ACC Championships? Saban had a much tougher road getting to his championships. Give Alabama Clemson's schedule and they'd be right there again this year.
 
I don't give a damn if it's 1997 or 2017...winning any SEC EAST game is hard. Sometimes it's the best sub conference AND part of the hardest conference In the nation (it was for 15 years) and sometimes it's just part of the hardest conference in the nation. Those rotating games from the West are no fun. Give me Wake, Duke, BC and the like all day long over GA, TN, FL
App St, Tenn, Mizz, Clemsom etc. may disagree that winning any SEC East game is harder than any other conference, but everyone is entitled to their opinion, including me. I would be interested to know what 15 years it was the most difficult in the nation? BTW I’m not saying the east is a terrible conference subdivision, but there are many teams in the subdivision that wouldn’t be good in any power 5 conference.
 
HMM lets see..... Plays in the Toughest Conference in America (Not even debatable by your orange glasses) He has won at least 7 SEC titles (Again toughest conference in America) he won National Championships at Different schools, He has what 6 (that is 3 times more than 2) national titles..
Clearly if you look at what has been accomplished up to this point, Saban would be the winner. The question though is inferring potential, and Dabo certainly has the potential and credentials to support that he may prove to be a better coach than Saban. Given his age, I would venture to say that his market value is higher than Saban. That is supported by the fact that Swinney IS the highest paid coach in college football.
 
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Did it take 3 pages to state the obvious? Clemson's rise to elite status miraculously coincided with the playoff. Everyone should have seen this coming.
 
Klemzun is a football school. Students don't select Klemzun for academics. They select Klemzun for their football program.
 
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