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How To Recruit at USC For Us To Get In The Mix?

CavDad62

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Sep 9, 2010
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My son, 21, gets a little frustrated at times because "we don't go after the 5 stars" or "we don't get the 5 stars." True...we don't.

Editorial note...player development is huge...stars don't always tell the story. That being said, my team full of 5 stars will beat your team full of 2.5 project stars 90 % of the time in games that matter. It's all about the Jimmys and Joe's.

That being said...with Clemson's reeling in of almost anybody they want and now with Georgia getting ready to go to the Final Four, what do we do to catch up?

My take...you have to build, one year at a time, increase your wins (like Muschamp has), and hopefully that will get you a few 4 stars you would not have normally gotten. Then increase your win total the next year, get a few more top players, and just build like that. At some point in the future, maybe the schedule falls to our favor, along with a few breaks, and we can have that kind of season.

Also, I believe (outside of Nick Saban) you have to roll out an exciting brand of football that HS stars are attracted to, especially if you don't have a history, say like Georgia, for reeling off RB stars. So if Roper stays, we need to crank it up a little. If he goes, let's get someone with some flair and creativity that will help us attract a few more top-level players.

It's frustrating, but we don't have an historical great team to brag about on the recruiting trail, or top 4 appearances, etc.

Hard to blame a 5-star RB for going to Georgia over us, or tall athletic receivers for wanting to go to Clemson where they are sure to rack up big numbers and go to the league.

It's challenging...I think Muschamp and the current staff are working really hard...the most active action I've seen on the recruiting trail in many years. We are just going to have to trust the process.
 
We had a star at RB (Lattimore). But he got hurt. And that’s what recruits see when they think of him.
Had the number 1 player drafted. And haven’t signed a player to replace him yet.
Meanwhile Georgia has the number 1 QB coming in. And their starter has st least 2 more years. AND they have a former number 1 on the bench.
They have the number 1 RB coming in with a stable full of backs already.
You can’t beat teams that can sell 1/3 of a football better than you can sell a whole one.
Only one ball to go around but these players don’t seem to mind.
 
My son, 21, gets a little frustrated at times because "we don't go after the 5 stars" or "we don't get the 5 stars." True...we don't.

Editorial note...player development is huge...stars don't always tell the story. That being said, my team full of 5 stars will beat your team full of 2.5 project stars 90 % of the time in games that matter. It's all about the Jimmys and Joe's.

That being said...with Clemson's reeling in of almost anybody they want and now with Georgia getting ready to go to the Final Four, what do we do to catch up?

My take...you have to build, one year at a time, increase your wins (like Muschamp has), and hopefully that will get you a few 4 stars you would not have normally gotten. Then increase your win total the next year, get a few more top players, and just build like that. At some point in the future, maybe the schedule falls to our favor, along with a few breaks, and we can have that kind of season.

Also, I believe (outside of Nick Saban) you have to roll out an exciting brand of football that HS stars are attracted to, especially if you don't have a history, say like Georgia, for reeling off RB stars. So if Roper stays, we need to crank it up a little. If he goes, let's get someone with some flair and creativity that will help us attract a few more top-level players.

It's frustrating, but we don't have an historical great team to brag about on the recruiting trail, or top 4 appearances, etc.

Hard to blame a 5-star RB for going to Georgia over us, or tall athletic receivers for wanting to go to Clemson where they are sure to rack up big numbers and go to the league.

It's challenging...I think Muschamp and the current staff are working really hard...the most active action I've seen on the recruiting trail in many years. We are just going to have to trust the process.

r games r a favorite of the concession stand folks.
 
At some point ut and UF will be back. Now is the time. Maybe we can beat uk next year. Our football program has been mismanaged since 2012. Sick of our do nothing administration.
 
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At some point ut and UF will be back. Now is the time. Maybe we can beat uk next year. Our football program has been mismanaged since 2012. Sick of our do nothing administration.
Yes. Uf and Tennessee will get better.
 
Hire a "Loop-holer" or whatever code name they use. The "recruiting assistant to the assistant of recruiting" sounds like a decent title.
 
The plan is the same as it's has for almost every year it's been for decades.
Uga can't take every player in their state, so we go in and tell the next tier players to come play for us and get revenge on Uga.
Go in to NC and convince players to come play in the SEC, that we'll give them more recognition and remind them that we've dominated their home state teams.
And to win big we've always known we need to dominate the top talent in SC. This will be hard to do now, but we have to rebuild relationships with hs coaches and work the state hard.

But the key is, as the OP said, development. Start with peak S&C. And then get an OC that can develop an innovative offense that players will want to play in.
And then the hardest part of all...win. Dominate games we're supposed to win and win against top 15 and higher winning some games to more talented teams...and keep building.
Eventually the tide will turn.
 
That's not a fair assessment considering our class is full with the exception of 4or5 more that have not committed to anyone yet.


I wonder if maybe we recruited a few low 3* players and got some 'too early' players that could be occupying slots that could be filled by higher rated players?
 
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Clemson laid the foundation to build pipelines in Georgia, North Carolina and Florida in 2009 and 2010, and started reeling in 5 and 4 star talent from those states in 2011. While we were dominating the state, they were building a bigger footprint and opening themselves up to more talent. When South Carolina high school talent really dried up post 2012, Clemson wasn’t hurt nearly as bad, because they weren’t even using the state as their primary recruiting ground. You look at their landmark 2014 and 2015 classes, and almost all the heavy hitters are from out of state.

If we can’t compete for 5 stars and high 4 stars from out of state, we will not have any real sustained success. Muschamp can “win the state” all he wants. But there isn’t enough talent year in and year out in the state to sustain a championship program.

Key is to get kids from the surrounding states to camp early and figure out how to leverage any early relationship into a commitment. Need something like Dabo getting Watkins and Steward out of Florida in 2011, which really woke everyone up to the idea that Dabo could go out of state and pull players every other program in the country wanted.
 
As a Clemson fan, the thing that worried me the most with you guys getting Muschamp was the relationships I thought he would have in FL...I've been surprised you guys don't have more recruits from there.
 
We need work horses on the line of scrimmage. Blue collar guys that are raw but full of potential. We'll have to start there and pick up some highly rated four star guys and hope an occasional five star is in the mix.
 
It's pretty simple. You have to hire a guy who understands that the on the field coaching is only half of the battle...Muschamp understands the x's and o's of the game as well as anyone, but he has no idea how to brand himself or the program. What's our identity? I can't sell you the program if I don't know the direction.

Did you guys notice how well Dabo scripted the P.R. fiasco with the SC fans last week? Did you hear Nick Saban tonight on why Bama should make the football playoff? These guys understand that the message is just as important as the actual coaching, if not moreso and bringing back the corny "SpursUp" is not going to win anyone over, nor does it say anything about the actual product. This is why I'm such a big Lane Kiffin guy...regardless of how you feel about him he's a brilliant self marketer and promoter and has Florida Atlantic of all places right in the mix of things.

Muschamp is a brilliant defensive football mind, but if Dabo, Saban, Muschamp and Lane came into your living room- I'm sorry but you're picking one of the other guys every time. Muschamps a great guy but a pitiful marketer and until our fanbase and administration understand why this is such an enormous issue we're utterly hopeless.
 
As a Clemson fan, the thing that worried me the most with you guys getting Muschamp was the relationships I thought he would have in FL...I've been surprised you guys don't have more recruits from there.

I’d look at big time out of state recruits Muschamp can land as a leading indicator for future success. The kind of recruits he’s actively beating out 4 or 5 traditional powers to land.

So far, he really only has one no doubter in that category over the first two cycles: Jamyest Williams.

MJ Webb, Brandon Mcllwain, and Jake Bentley are fringe guys in that category.

But he might break through in this class a little bit. Josh Vann, Rick Sandidge, Dylan Wonnum, Jaycee Horn. It’d be 4, high profile, highly competitive recruiting wins. Combine those guys with Tindall, if he can get him, and you have the first real indications of some important recruiting success.
 
Clemson laid the foundation to build pipelines in Georgia, North Carolina and Florida in 2009 and 2010, and started reeling in 5 and 4 star talent from those states in 2011. While we were dominating the state, they were building a bigger footprint and opening themselves up to more talent. When South Carolina high school talent really dried up post 2012, Clemson wasn’t hurt nearly as bad, because they weren’t even using the state as their primary recruiting ground. You look at their landmark 2014 and 2015 classes, and almost all the heavy hitters are from out of state.

If we can’t compete for 5 stars and high 4 stars from out of state, we will not have any real sustained success. Muschamp can “win the state” all he wants. But there isn’t enough talent year in and year out in the state to sustain a championship program.

Key is to get kids from the surrounding states to camp early and figure out how to leverage any early relationship into a commitment. Need something like Dabo getting Watkins and Steward out of Florida in 2011, which really woke everyone up to the idea that Dabo could go out of state and pull players every other program in the country wanted.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Nailed it. This state is too small to consistently maintain a program at a high level. You have to attract 4 and 5 star talent from outside. There are no "ifs" about that. One way to do that is to play a system where recruits can play in that's fun. Recruits are, in essence, kids. And kids want to have fun. Have we ever tried that for any reasonable period of time? Even Spurrier's offense was a watered down version of the "Fun'Gun". Really wasn't even close.
 
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The guys saying we need to pay players are partly right but not the coaches or the administration. It needs to be fans alumni boosters. You don' want your school cheating or you wind up like ole miss. I guarantee you dabo, saban, myres have never handed any recruit or player a dime and if they found out one of their coaches did they would be fired. I also guarantee you they all know people outside of the program that do it for them so there is no trail back to them.
 
It seems like we are taking fringe guys too early in the process. We have to develop the heck out of these guys and just keep going after the studs. Champ's classes are getting better. Be patient. I think we can compete with the Tigers in 3-4 years and beat the teams we should beat (hello Kentucky) even sooner. And yes it hurt to type that.
 
My son, 21, gets a little frustrated at times because "we don't go after the 5 stars" or "we don't get the 5 stars." True...we don't.

Editorial note...player development is huge...stars don't always tell the story. That being said, my team full of 5 stars will beat your team full of 2.5 project stars 90 % of the time in games that matter. It's all about the Jimmys and Joe's.

That being said...with Clemson's reeling in of almost anybody they want and now with Georgia getting ready to go to the Final Four, what do we do to catch up?

My take...you have to build, one year at a time, increase your wins (like Muschamp has), and hopefully that will get you a few 4 stars you would not have normally gotten. Then increase your win total the next year, get a few more top players, and just build like that. At some point in the future, maybe the schedule falls to our favor, along with a few breaks, and we can have that kind of season.

Also, I believe (outside of Nick Saban) you have to roll out an exciting brand of football that HS stars are attracted to, especially if you don't have a history, say like Georgia, for reeling off RB stars. So if Roper stays, we need to crank it up a little. If he goes, let's get someone with some flair and creativity that will help us attract a few more top-level players.

It's frustrating, but we don't have an historical great team to brag about on the recruiting trail, or top 4 appearances, etc.

Hard to blame a 5-star RB for going to Georgia over us, or tall athletic receivers for wanting to go to Clemson where they are sure to rack up big numbers and go to the league.

It's challenging...I think Muschamp and the current staff are working really hard...the most active action I've seen on the recruiting trail in many years. We are just going to have to trust the process.
Numbers and schools do not matter to nfl scouts. That argument is tired and stupid. You can look around each team and see dudes that you have no idea where they went to school. If you are good the nfl scouts will find you. So... try agin, kids wanna be apart of winning, and sometimes teams are the flavor of the week. Kinda like Michigan was a year or so ago. No look at em. Truth is we are a small state and everyone poaches the few 5 stars we have
 
My son, 21, gets a little frustrated at times because "we don't go after the 5 stars" or "we don't get the 5 stars." True...we don't.

Editorial note...player development is huge...stars don't always tell the story. That being said, my team full of 5 stars will beat your team full of 2.5 project stars 90 % of the time in games that matter. It's all about the Jimmys and Joe's.

That being said...with Clemson's reeling in of almost anybody they want and now with Georgia getting ready to go to the Final Four, what do we do to catch up?

My take...you have to build, one year at a time, increase your wins (like Muschamp has), and hopefully that will get you a few 4 stars you would not have normally gotten. Then increase your win total the next year, get a few more top players, and just build like that. At some point in the future, maybe the schedule falls to our favor, along with a few breaks, and we can have that kind of season.

Also, I believe (outside of Nick Saban) you have to roll out an exciting brand of football that HS stars are attracted to, especially if you don't have a history, say like Georgia, for reeling off RB stars. So if Roper stays, we need to crank it up a little. If he goes, let's get someone with some flair and creativity that will help us attract a few more top-level players.

It's frustrating, but we don't have an historical great team to brag about on the recruiting trail, or top 4 appearances, etc.

Hard to blame a 5-star RB for going to Georgia over us, or tall athletic receivers for wanting to go to Clemson where they are sure to rack up big numbers and go to the league.

It's challenging...I think Muschamp and the current staff are working really hard...the most active action I've seen on the recruiting trail in many years. We are just going to have to trust the process.
Every Championship team since BCS and CFP era had at least 50% of their roster was 4 and 5* players. That’s every class for 4 years at least half of your commits are 4 or 5 star recruits. Hopefully one day we’ll be there but it’s gonna take a while for us to be a contender even if everything goes right.
 
At some point ut and UF will be back. Now is the time. Maybe we can beat uk next year. Our football program has been mismanaged since 2012. Sick of our do nothing administration.
UF May be “back”, but I’m not sure UT ever will. As bad as it seems in Columbia, it is 10x that I’m knoxville. They are in SAD SHAPE and won’t crawl out from this for another 20 years.
 
The CFP is in place to keep the status quo. Unfortunately we are not a part of that. Alabama, Clemson, Ohio State, now Georgia and a few others are the only teams they will consider unless they WIN their conference and still that committe has the power to keep them out of the playoffs. Got to win the conference/ forget about clemsonand once that happens then the young kids will hear about the gamecocks day and night on ESPN.
 
I wonder if maybe we recruited a few low 3* players and got some 'too early' players that could be occupying slots that could be filled by higher rated players?
or maybe they continue to evaluate well and got on those 3* early before anybody else jumped in...why would you offer lesser talent that early in the process if you didnt think they could help? if it was late then yea i could see them filling out the class, but i tend to believe that they evaluate pretty well...
 
Every Championship team since BCS and CFP era had at least 50% of their roster was 4 and 5* players. That’s every class for 4 years at least half of your commits are 4 or 5 star recruits. Hopefully one day we’ll be there but it’s gonna take a while for us to be a contender even if everything goes right.
Someone posted a link earlier this year that broke down those numbers you are suggesting. I didn't recall the percentage being that high. If someone remembers that link I would love to see it again.
 
Someone posted a link earlier this year that broke down those numbers you are suggesting. I didn't recall the percentage being that high. If someone remembers that link I would love to see it again.
https://www.google.com/amp/www.sbnation.com/a/cfb-preview-2017/blue-chip-ratio/amp

Clemson was the lowest ratio at 52% to win a championship but 3 of the CFP teams are in ratio this year, UGA, Bama and Clemson. Seeing as how our past classes aren’t great and right now we’re sitting at 4-4 star commits out of 18 comittswere another 4 years after this class from statistically being a contender. But it’s just statistics and math everybody can be a dreamer!
 
My son, 21, gets a little frustrated at times because "we don't go after the 5 stars" or "we don't get the 5 stars." True...we don't.

Editorial note...player development is huge...stars don't always tell the story. That being said, my team full of 5 stars will beat your team full of 2.5 project stars 90 % of the time in games that matter. It's all about the Jimmys and Joe's.

That being said...with Clemson's reeling in of almost anybody they want and now with Georgia getting ready to go to the Final Four, what do we do to catch up?

My take...you have to build, one year at a time, increase your wins (like Muschamp has), and hopefully that will get you a few 4 stars you would not have normally gotten. Then increase your win total the next year, get a few more top players, and just build like that. At some point in the future, maybe the schedule falls to our favor, along with a few breaks, and we can have that kind of season.

Also, I believe (outside of Nick Saban) you have to roll out an exciting brand of football that HS stars are attracted to, especially if you don't have a history, say like Georgia, for reeling off RB stars. So if Roper stays, we need to crank it up a little. If he goes, let's get someone with some flair and creativity that will help us attract a few more top-level players.

It's frustrating, but we don't have an historical great team to brag about on the recruiting trail, or top 4 appearances, etc.

Hard to blame a 5-star RB for going to Georgia over us, or tall athletic receivers for wanting to go to Clemson where they are sure to rack up big numbers and go to the league.

It's challenging...I think Muschamp and the current staff are working really hard...the most active action I've seen on the recruiting trail in many years. We are just going to have to trust the process.

Been saying for years that South Carolina should try to be the Oregon of the SEC. Auburn sorta does that with their up-tempo style of play, but they are still viewed as more of a traditional team. I think USC could more easily claim that image by going all-in with the up-tempo, no huddle offense, plus the trendy uniforms, mirrored helmets and everything. The Gamecocks need to differentiate themselves from all the traditional bluebloods in the league and be very intentional about being different and trendy. Certain elements are already in place like the totally unique Gamecock mascot, the unique structure of the stadium, newer traditions like Sandstorm, etc. Partner with Under Armor to do exactly what Nike does with Oregon's uniforms. And complete the whole thing by hiring a coach to run 90 plays per game and light up the scoreboard. Do that and suddenly USC becomes cool.

When other programs have built-in advantages with recruiting turf and winning history, you need to be the opposite and find a way to be different, trendy, cool. The formula is there. Both Oregon and Baylor used it to overcome their historical disadvantages, yet no team in the entire Eastern half of the country has replicated it. There are a few that do the uniform thing, but no one that combines it with that style of play.
 
Lot of new coaches in the SEC for 2018 season, so is now the time to install gimmicky (no offense) or stick to the conventional way? Add some slick stuff in gradually kinda like we are doing. Just need better players, that’s all. That article is talking about Clemson turning away ‘good’ players and we can’t get them. Sheesh.
 
As I have posted on here before, as a Clem fan I hope Muschamp sticks with Bentley and certainly doesn't play Joyner for a few years. I truly believe you guys would win just as many games with Joyner next year as with Bentley. The plus would be the hype he generates with his scrambling and athletic ability. You want to be able to go to recruits and say we have a game changer, we just need you to help us take it to the next level.
 
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Lot of new coaches in the SEC for 2018 season, so is now the time to install gimmicky (no offense) or stick to the conventional way? Add some slick stuff in gradually kinda like we are doing. Just need better players, that’s all. That article is talking about Clemson turning away ‘good’ players and we can’t get them. Sheesh.
Don't want a "gimmicky" offense, just a balanced one...where the QB makes good decisions, when he throws it, he is accurate (doesn't leave a lot of yards on the field)...and can (and will) run the ball. I think we have the receivers...and to a great extent the RBs to run this type of offense....and with Wolford, I truly believe we will have the OL to run it.

Don't want a run-happy triple option or a pass-happy WSU style offense....just a good run/pass balanced spread offense.
 
I agree with the need for creative branding and marketing. I am no fan of Dabo Swinney, but he's really good at that. He used his background in business to build an image and then sell it to recruits. He's not an X's and O's coach, and most objective Clemson fans will even admit that. But, he doesn't have to be. He has hired effective coaches to fill that need while he focuses on branding and recruiting. Whatever our brand is going to be, it needs to include an up tempo and creative offense that will attract recruits and more importantly, score points. Hire the OC from OU or someplace and change it up. Make it fresh and exciting.
Another angle we can and should be selling hard is academics. May not sound sexy, but players' parents will tune in. Very few players make it to the NFL and even some that do have careers cut short by injuries. The numbers for us are outstanding: "Bowl teams Wake Forest, Central Florida, Mississippi State, Duke, Stanford, Notre Dame, South Carolina and Northwestern all graduated at least 93 percent of its football players and at least 81 percent of African-American players, the study found."
 
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I agree with the need for creative branding and marketing. I am no fan of Dabo Swinney, but he's really good at that. He used his background in business to build an image and then sell it to recruits. He's not an X's and O's coach, and most objective Clemson fans will even admit that. But, he doesn't have to be. He has hired effective coaches to fill that need while he focuses on branding and recruiting. Whatever our brand is going to be, it needs to include an up tempo and creative offense that will attract recruits and more importantly, score points. Hire the OC from OU or someplace and change it up. Make it fresh and exciting.
Another angle we can and should be selling hard is academics. May not sound sexy, but players' parents will tune in. Very few players make it to the NFL and even some that do have careers cut short by injuries. The numbers for us are outstanding: "Bowl teams Wake Forest, Central Florida, Mississippi State, Duke, Stanford, Notre Dame, South Carolina and Northwestern all graduated at least 93 percent of its football players and at least 81 percent of African-American players, the study found."
Throw a ton of money at Josh Heupel. Balanced offense that gets a ton of production and a darned good QB coach. Being as balanced as it is....and its not always HUNH (he picks his times)....Muschamp would have to love it as it gives the defense time to recover.
 
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