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I don’t just pull for the Gamecocks...I AM a Gamecock!!!

Jan 7, 2004
136
120
43
I don’t have the luxury to just pull for any college team which I want to win, nor am I able to turn away, or turn off from watching and supporting my Gamecocks.

why?

Because I AM a Gamecock. I don’t just pull for this school’s teams; this school’s teams are MY teams.

Semantically, it’s a subtle difference but the reality is it’s a huge difference.

In my 51 years, I am not sure our Big 3 programs have collectively been in worse shape. And while I am disappointed, terribly frustrated, sad, mad, and humbled, I am a Gamecock and that will not change even if the programs continue to decline. Like many of my family and loved ones; when they need my love and support the most is often when they deserve it the least.

There are 2 camps of thought right now:

1) A change at HC will only serve to put us back another 3-4 years while the new guy gets his players and system in place.

2) Firing CWM is inevitable and it we wait a year or 2 we are just that more behind in building a winning football program.

Do we need a New OC? Absolutely. Does CWM need to make some changes in staff and philosophy? Absolutely. Do we need a new direction with a new HC? Maybe - but we have a long history of changing coaches every 4-5 years and that has never provided the results we want.

Like many of you, I wasn’t particularly enamored with the CWM hire and felt that Tanner had botched the process. Looking back, none of the “candidates” that we thought might come have panned out all too great either. (I know UGA has had success but IMO it’s really not that much different than Richt and KS had a full stable of talent when he got there.) TH at Texas hasn’t been very good and Fuentes has steadily gone down in the ACC (even at 8-3 this year, they had to have some ACC home cooking to prevent an upset loss to Furman).

So who should we have hired? And how can anyone say that anyone else would have done better than CWM during the same period? My big issue with our team right now is out inept offense and how we are losing games. I believe that all Gamecocks can agree that at a bare minimum, we need a new OC and CWM must allow the new OC to actually run an offense that will score points.

Yes, there are instances where other coaches have come into schools and have won relatively quickly, but those are the exception not the norm. Yes our arch rivals are experiencing their absolute golden years of football while we have resorted back to “average”, but does that mean we can just scrap our plan and start over?

I don’t have all of the answers as I can not boast of enough intelligence to know all the answers that many on this board seem to have. I am smart enough to know that our AD’s and especially the BOT’s jobs entail considerably more responsibilities than ensuring we have a winning football team, That is NOT a statement of support by me of either of the two, BTW. CWM’s job is to have a successful football program and winning games is a huge part of that formula. While he is not where we want to be, he is above our statistical average over the life of our program.

Long before this season started, many of my Gamecock buddies agreed with me that we would be fortunate to win 6-7 games this season, based on our personnel and schedule. Next season isn’t looking so hot either right now - BUT....a dynamic new OC could change all of that very quickly. I am willing to bet Tanner & probably Caslen have also been In the ear of CWM about that. I believe we are going to have to take a gamble on an up and coming play caller - someone from a small school as anyone with a rich pedigree would have to have reservations about coming to SC with a potential coaching change in a year or 2.

Make no mistake - Tanner and Muschamp are connected at the hip. And Tanner will NOT be firing CWM anytime soon. Tanner will “retire” if Caslen and the BOT deem the CWM era over as Tanner will not be given the opportunity to hire the next HC. I am smart enough to know that.

I am leaving my house Saturday am around 7:00 headed to Columbia. I could be playing golf at any number of awesome courses Saturday. I could also be catching up on some much needed work at the office or practice the guitar - but I am a Gamecock - and as a Gamecock, it is my duty, my responsibility, and indeed my honor and privilege to be cheering on my beloved Alma mater.

GO COCKS!!!
 
Last edited:

lambertnephew

Member
Nov 23, 2019
30
44
18
I don’t have the luxury to just pull for any college team which I want to win, nor am I able to turn away, or turn off from watching and supporting my Gamecocks.

why?

Because I AM a Gamecock. I don’t just pull for this school’s teams; this school’s teams are MY teams.

Semantically, it’s a subtle difference but the reality is it’s a huge difference.

In my 51 years, I am not sure our Big 3 programs have collectively been in worse shape. And while I am disappointed, terribly frustrated, sad, mad, and humbled, I am a Gamecock and that will not change even if the programs continue to decline. Like many of my family and loved ones; when they need my love and support the most is often when they deserve it the least.

There are 2 camps of thought right now:

1) A change at HC will only serve to put us back another 3-4 years while the new guy gets his players and system in place.

2) Firing CWM is inevitable and it we wait a year or 2 we are just that more behind in building a winning football program.

Do we need a New OC? Absolutely. Does CWM need to make some changes in staff and philosophy? Absolutely. Do we need a new direction with a new HC? Maybe - but we have a long history of changing coaches every 4-5 years and that has never provided the results we want.

Like many of you, I wasn’t particularly enamored with the CWM hire and felt that Tanner had botched the process. Looking back, none of the “candidates” that we thought might come have panned out all to great either. (I know UGA has had success but IMO it’s really not that much different than Richt and KS had a full stable of talent when he got there.) TH at Texas hasn’t been very good and Fuentes has steadily gone down in the ACC (even at 8-3 this year, they had to have some ACC home cooking to prevent an upset loss to Furman).

So who should we have hired? And how can anyone say that anyone else would have done better than CWM during the same period? My big issue with our team right now is out inept offense and how we are losing games. I believe that all Gamecocks can agree that at a bare minimum, we need a new OC and CWM must allow the new OC to actually run an offense that will score points.

Yes, there are instances where other coaches have come into schools and have won relatively quickly, but those are the exception not the norm. Yes our arch rivals are experiencing their absolute golden years of football while we have resorted back to “average”, but does that mean we can just scrap our plan and start over?

I don’t have all of the answers as I can not boast of enough intelligence to know all the answers that many on this board seem to have. I am smart enough to know that our AD’s and especially the BOT’s jobs entail considerably more responsibilities than ensuring we have a winning football team, That is NOT a statement of support by me of either of the two, BTW. CWM’s job is to have a successful football program and winning games is a huge part of that formula. While he is not where we want to be, he is above our statistical average over the life of our program.

Long before this season started, many of my Gamecock buddies agreed with me that we would be fortunate to win 6-7 games this season, based on our personnel and schedule. Next season isn’t looking so hot either right now - BUT....a dynamic new OC could change all of that very quickly. I am willing to bet Tanner & probably Caslen have also been In the ear of CWM about that. I believe we are going to have to take a gamble on an up and coming play caller - someone from a small school as anyone with a rich pedigree would have to have reservations about coming to SC with a potential coaching change in a year or 2.

Make no mistake - Tanner and Muschamp are connected at the hip. And Tanner will NOT be firing CWM anytime soon. Tanner will “retire” if Caslen and the BOT deem the CWM era over as Tanner will not be given the opportunity to hire the next HC. I am smart enough to know that.

I am leaving my house Saturday am around 7:00 headed to Columbia. I could be playing golf at any number of awesome courses Saturday. I could also be catching up on some much needed work at the office or practice the guitar - but I am a Gamecock - and as a Gamecock, it is my duty, my responsibility, and indeed my honor and privilege to be cheering on my beloved Alma mater.

GO COCKS!!!

We are all so proud of you. The board of trustees loves blind sheep.
 

Goose cock

Active Member
May 12, 2019
2,143
4,012
113
I don’t have the luxury to just pull for any college team which I want to win, nor am I able to turn away, or turn off from watching and supporting my Gamecocks.

why?

Because I AM a Gamecock. I don’t just pull for this school’s teams; this school’s teams are MY teams.

Semantically, it’s a subtle difference but the reality is it’s a huge difference.

In my 51 years, I am not sure our Big 3 programs have collectively been in worse shape. And while I am disappointed, terribly frustrated, sad, mad, and humbled, I am a Gamecock and that will not change even if the programs continue to decline. Like many of my family and loved ones; when they need my love and support the most is often when they deserve it the least.

There are 2 camps of thought right now:

1) A change at HC will only serve to put us back another 3-4 years while the new guy gets his players and system in place.

2) Firing CWM is inevitable and it we wait a year or 2 we are just that more behind in building a winning football program.

Do we need a New OC? Absolutely. Does CWM need to make some changes in staff and philosophy? Absolutely. Do we need a new direction with a new HC? Maybe - but we have a long history of changing coaches every 4-5 years and that has never provided the results we want.

Like many of you, I wasn’t particularly enamored with the CWM hire and felt that Tanner had botched the process. Looking back, none of the “candidates” that we thought might come have panned out all to great either. (I know UGA has had success but IMO it’s really not that much different than Richt and KS had a full stable of talent when he got there.) TH at Texas hasn’t been very good and Fuentes has steadily gone down in the ACC (even at 8-3 this year, they had to have some ACC home cooking to prevent an upset loss to Furman).

So who should we have hired? And how can anyone say that anyone else would have done better than CWM during the same period? My big issue with our team right now is out inept offense and how we are losing games. I believe that all Gamecocks can agree that at a bare minimum, we need a new OC and CWM must allow the new OC to actually run an offense that will score points.

Yes, there are instances where other coaches have come into schools and have won relatively quickly, but those are the exception not the norm. Yes our arch rivals are experiencing their absolute golden years of football while we have resorted back to “average”, but does that mean we can just scrap our plan and start over?

I don’t have all of the answers as I can not boast of enough intelligence to know all the answers that many on this board seem to have. I am smart enough to know that our AD’s and especially the BOT’s jobs entail considerably more responsibilities than ensuring we have a winning football team, That is NOT a statement of support by me of either of the two, BTW. CWM’s job is to have a successful football program and winning games is a huge part of that formula. While he is not where we want to be, he is above our statistical average over the life of our program.

Long before this season started, many of my Gamecock buddies agreed with me that we would be fortunate to win 6-7 games this season, based on our personnel and schedule. Next season isn’t looking so hot either right now - BUT....a dynamic new OC could change all of that very quickly. I am willing to bet Tanner & probably Caslen have also been In the ear of CWM about that. I believe we are going to have to take a gamble on an up and coming play caller - someone from a small school as anyone with a rich pedigree would have to have reservations about coming to SC with a potential coaching change in a year or 2.

Make no mistake - Tanner and Muschamp are connected at the hip. And Tanner will NOT be firing CWM anytime soon. Tanner will “retire” if Caslen and the BOT deem the CWM era over as Tanner will not be given the opportunity to hire the next HC. I am smart enough to know that.

I am leaving my house Saturday am around 7:00 headed to Columbia. I could be playing golf at any number of awesome courses Saturday. I could also be catching up on some much needed work at the office or practice the guitar - but I am a Gamecock - and as a Gamecock, it is my duty, my responsibility, and indeed my honor and privilege to be cheering on my beloved Alma mater.

GO COCKS!!!

Ray Tanner loves you. Send more $.
 
Jan 7, 2004
136
120
43

So you realize that we had 3 excellent years under Spurrier, but it took him 6 years to win 9 games and only in year 7 did he win double digits?

You also realize that his last full year he was 7-6 and was 2-4 when he resigned?

I am not downing Spurrier - he is the best coach our football program ever had. But I do want to point out that his success was not immediate and didn’t have long-lasting effect or staying power even under his watch. And he never had a schedule like we had this year.

Recruiting was deteriorating (a whole other discussion here) and Spurrier did us a favor (after recruiting was tanking) when he resigned when he did. IMO CWM will not be able to be fairly or accurately judged for at least 6 years. Out history is to change every 4-5 years - so where is the insanity?
 

lambertnephew

Member
Nov 23, 2019
30
44
18
What year did you graduate?
I’m a Yankee. I didn’t go to USC. My wife has two degrees from there. My money has been paying for many years of season tickets and away games.
You think the majority of the fans that have season tickets and support USC sports graduated from there? If so, you are a fool.
You are simply part of the problem. A blind sheep that does what the puppet master board wants you to do.
Change is needed. Money is the only thing they listen to.
 
Sep 15, 2016
787
1,302
93
I don’t have the luxury to just pull for any college team which I want to win, nor am I able to turn away, or turn off from watching and supporting my Gamecocks.

why?

Because I AM a Gamecock. I don’t just pull for this school’s teams; this school’s teams are MY teams.

Semantically, it’s a subtle difference but the reality is it’s a huge difference.

In my 51 years, I am not sure our Big 3 programs have collectively been in worse shape. And while I am disappointed, terribly frustrated, sad, mad, and humbled, I am a Gamecock and that will not change even if the programs continue to decline. Like many of my family and loved ones; when they need my love and support the most is often when they deserve it the least.

There are 2 camps of thought right now:

1) A change at HC will only serve to put us back another 3-4 years while the new guy gets his players and system in place.

2) Firing CWM is inevitable and it we wait a year or 2 we are just that more behind in building a winning football program.

Do we need a New OC? Absolutely. Does CWM need to make some changes in staff and philosophy? Absolutely. Do we need a new direction with a new HC? Maybe - but we have a long history of changing coaches every 4-5 years and that has never provided the results we want.

Like many of you, I wasn’t particularly enamored with the CWM hire and felt that Tanner had botched the process. Looking back, none of the “candidates” that we thought might come have panned out all too great either. (I know UGA has had success but IMO it’s really not that much different than Richt and KS had a full stable of talent when he got there.) TH at Texas hasn’t been very good and Fuentes has steadily gone down in the ACC (even at 8-3 this year, they had to have some ACC home cooking to prevent an upset loss to Furman).

So who should we have hired? And how can anyone say that anyone else would have done better than CWM during the same period? My big issue with our team right now is out inept offense and how we are losing games. I believe that all Gamecocks can agree that at a bare minimum, we need a new OC and CWM must allow the new OC to actually run an offense that will score points.

Yes, there are instances where other coaches have come into schools and have won relatively quickly, but those are the exception not the norm. Yes our arch rivals are experiencing their absolute golden years of football while we have resorted back to “average”, but does that mean we can just scrap our plan and start over?

I don’t have all of the answers as I can not boast of enough intelligence to know all the answers that many on this board seem to have. I am smart enough to know that our AD’s and especially the BOT’s jobs entail considerably more responsibilities than ensuring we have a winning football team, That is NOT a statement of support by me of either of the two, BTW. CWM’s job is to have a successful football program and winning games is a huge part of that formula. While he is not where we want to be, he is above our statistical average over the life of our program.

Long before this season started, many of my Gamecock buddies agreed with me that we would be fortunate to win 6-7 games this season, based on our personnel and schedule. Next season isn’t looking so hot either right now - BUT....a dynamic new OC could change all of that very quickly. I am willing to bet Tanner & probably Caslen have also been In the ear of CWM about that. I believe we are going to have to take a gamble on an up and coming play caller - someone from a small school as anyone with a rich pedigree would have to have reservations about coming to SC with a potential coaching change in a year or 2.

Make no mistake - Tanner and Muschamp are connected at the hip. And Tanner will NOT be firing CWM anytime soon. Tanner will “retire” if Caslen and the BOT deem the CWM era over as Tanner will not be given the opportunity to hire the next HC. I am smart enough to know that.

I am leaving my house Saturday am around 7:00 headed to Columbia. I could be playing golf at any number of awesome courses Saturday. I could also be catching up on some much needed work at the office or practice the guitar - but I am a Gamecock - and as a Gamecock, it is my duty, my responsibility, and indeed my honor and privilege to be cheering on my beloved Alma mater.

GO COCKS!!!

You poor soul...
 
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Jan 7, 2004
136
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I’m a Yankee. I didn’t go to USC. My wife has two degrees from there. My money has been paying for many years of season tickets and away games.
You think the majority of the fans that have season tickets and support USC sports graduated from there? If so, you are a fool.
You are simply part of the problem. A blind sheep that does what the puppet master board wants you to do.
Change is needed. Money is the only thing they listen to.

Pal - did you feel that way with Paul & Soarky too? Holtz was the beginning of change for us, but he was right on average for our history for his 5 years. It took Sourrier. One do the greatest college coaches ever, 7 years to win double digit games, and he did it 3 years in a row before going 7-6 and then 2-4 before resigning.

CWM took over a dumpster fire for recruiting and will need at least 6-7 years to be fairly judged.
 

Goose cock

Active Member
May 12, 2019
2,143
4,012
113
So you realize that we had 3 excellent years under Spurrier, but it took him 6 years to win 9 games and only in year 7 did he win double digits?

You also realize that his last full year he was 7-6 and was 2-4 when he resigned?

I am not downing Spurrier - he is the best coach our football program ever had. But I do want to point out that his success was not immediate and didn’t have long-lasting effect or staying power even under his watch. And he never had a schedule like we had this year.

Recruiting was deteriorating (a whole other discussion here) and Spurrier did us a favor (after recruiting was tanking) when he resigned when he did. IMO CWM will not be able to be fairly or accurately judged for at least 6 years. Out history is to change every 4-5 years - so where is the insanity?

Lol. Ok
 
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Sending an SOS

Well-Known Member
Aug 20, 2005
6,253
1,366
113
I don’t have the luxury to just pull for any college team which I want to win, nor am I able to turn away, or turn off from watching and supporting my Gamecocks.

why?

Because I AM a Gamecock. I don’t just pull for this school’s teams; this school’s teams are MY teams.

Semantically, it’s a subtle difference but the reality is it’s a huge difference.

In my 51 years, I am not sure our Big 3 programs have collectively been in worse shape. And while I am disappointed, terribly frustrated, sad, mad, and humbled, I am a Gamecock and that will not change even if the programs continue to decline. Like many of my family and loved ones; when they need my love and support the most is often when they deserve it the least.

There are 2 camps of thought right now:

1) A change at HC will only serve to put us back another 3-4 years while the new guy gets his players and system in place.

2) Firing CWM is inevitable and it we wait a year or 2 we are just that more behind in building a winning football program.

Do we need a New OC? Absolutely. Does CWM need to make some changes in staff and philosophy? Absolutely. Do we need a new direction with a new HC? Maybe - but we have a long history of changing coaches every 4-5 years and that has never provided the results we want.

Like many of you, I wasn’t particularly enamored with the CWM hire and felt that Tanner had botched the process. Looking back, none of the “candidates” that we thought might come have panned out all too great either. (I know UGA has had success but IMO it’s really not that much different than Richt and KS had a full stable of talent when he got there.) TH at Texas hasn’t been very good and Fuentes has steadily gone down in the ACC (even at 8-3 this year, they had to have some ACC home cooking to prevent an upset loss to Furman).

So who should we have hired? And how can anyone say that anyone else would have done better than CWM during the same period? My big issue with our team right now is out inept offense and how we are losing games. I believe that all Gamecocks can agree that at a bare minimum, we need a new OC and CWM must allow the new OC to actually run an offense that will score points.

Yes, there are instances where other coaches have come into schools and have won relatively quickly, but those are the exception not the norm. Yes our arch rivals are experiencing their absolute golden years of football while we have resorted back to “average”, but does that mean we can just scrap our plan and start over?

I don’t have all of the answers as I can not boast of enough intelligence to know all the answers that many on this board seem to have. I am smart enough to know that our AD’s and especially the BOT’s jobs entail considerably more responsibilities than ensuring we have a winning football team, That is NOT a statement of support by me of either of the two, BTW. CWM’s job is to have a successful football program and winning games is a huge part of that formula. While he is not where we want to be, he is above our statistical average over the life of our program.

Long before this season started, many of my Gamecock buddies agreed with me that we would be fortunate to win 6-7 games this season, based on our personnel and schedule. Next season isn’t looking so hot either right now - BUT....a dynamic new OC could change all of that very quickly. I am willing to bet Tanner & probably Caslen have also been In the ear of CWM about that. I believe we are going to have to take a gamble on an up and coming play caller - someone from a small school as anyone with a rich pedigree would have to have reservations about coming to SC with a potential coaching change in a year or 2.

Make no mistake - Tanner and Muschamp are connected at the hip. And Tanner will NOT be firing CWM anytime soon. Tanner will “retire” if Caslen and the BOT deem the CWM era over as Tanner will not be given the opportunity to hire the next HC. I am smart enough to know that.

I am leaving my house Saturday am around 7:00 headed to Columbia. I could be playing golf at any number of awesome courses Saturday. I could also be catching up on some much needed work at the office or practice the guitar - but I am a Gamecock - and as a Gamecock, it is my duty, my responsibility, and indeed my honor and privilege to be cheering on my beloved Alma mater.

GO COCKS!!!
If the future is based on the past, then we should just quit playing football. That said, there are more up and coming coaches right at this moment (they’ve been listed several times) than at other times in our history. And given WM’s track record, under what logic do we assume things will improve if we wait this out?

If we are going to struggle for 3-4 more years regardless of what we do, I’d rather make a change happen now with the hopes of building a bright future. With the current administration (and this goes well beyond just WM), the future looks bleak.
 
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Goose cock

Active Member
May 12, 2019
2,143
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There isn’t a single power 5 school that would have even interviewed muschump nor Tanner much less hired them. Hell, a G5 school wouldn’t have. If chump had remained at Auburn as DC he very well may have been fired. That defense was god awful. No, we screwed the pooch with both hires.
 
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Jan 7, 2004
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If the future is based on the past, then we should just quit playing football. That said, there are more up and coming coaches right at this moment (they’ve been listed several times) than at other times in our history. And given WM’s track record, under what logic do we assume things will improve if we wait this out?

If we are going to struggle for 3-4 more years regardless of what we do, I’d rather make a change happen now with the hopes of building a bright future. With the current administration (and this goes well beyond just WM), the future looks bleak.


What exactly are you basing this on? You realize Spurrier finished 9-10 here with 2 losses to UK and the players that lost to Citadel - and recruiting was in the tank? It took him 6 years on the coast tali’s of Holtz to just get to 9 wins and only in year 7 did he get 11 wins. And after 3 great years, he was 9-10 and resigned.

CWM took over more of a dumpster fire than people remember or understand and Chang coaches every 4-5 years has never worked in our 100+ year history.
 

kidrobinski

Active Member
Dec 5, 2015
1,646
1,800
113
I’m a Yankee. I didn’t go to USC. My wife has two degrees from there. My money has been paying for many years of season tickets and away games.
You think the majority of the fans that have season tickets and support USC sports graduated from there? If so, you are a fool.
You are simply part of the problem. A blind sheep that does what the puppet master board wants you to do.
Change is needed. Money is the only thing they listen to.
This is the fan I started seeing coming in around the last 2/3 of spurrier’s time, becoming obviously apparent in the capital one season. It was not only embarrassing, it was unacceptable. You know what was unacceptable to me? THIS kind of mindset. That was when I gave it up.


And lo and behold, here it is yet, expressing its enlightenment while disguising itself as Gamecock Nation.

Lol! Loser! Sheep! Tanner! Muskrat! BOT! Fool! Bark! Bark! Bark!
 
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Jan 7, 2004
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There isn’t a single power 5 school that would have even interviewed muschump nor Tanner much less hired them. Hell, a G5 school wouldn’t have. If chump had remained at Auburn as DC he very well may have been fired. That defense was god awful. No, we screwed the
There isn’t a single power 5 school that would have even interviewed muschump nor Tanner much less hired them. Hell, a G5 school wouldn’t have. If chump had remained at Auburn as DC he very well may have been fired. That defense was god awful. No, we screwed the pooch with both hires.


I don’t completely disagree with you here, but who should we have hired? Looking back...

UGA is no better or worse in IMO with Smart
Texas is no better right now with TH.
Virginia Tech is about the same as they were under Fuentes (but they had a lot of help to beat Furman this year.)

Who else would have been a reasonable hire then?
 

Sending an SOS

Well-Known Member
Aug 20, 2005
6,253
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What exactly are you basing this on? You realize Spurrier finished 9-10 here with 2 losses to UK and the players that lost to Citadel - and recruiting was in the tank? It took him 6 years on the coast tali’s of Holtz to just get to 9 wins and only in year 7 did he get 11 wins. And after 3 great years, he was 9-10 and resigned.

CWM took over more of a dumpster fire than people remember or understand and Chang coaches every 4-5 years has never worked in our 100+ year history.
The biggest difference is that SOS and a Holtz both had a track record of success. WM does not...

I have no doubt that this is a difficult challenge for any coach, but it’s why we need someone strong to take us to the next level, not a recycled coach that did less at a school with fewer challenges.
 

paladin181

Well-Known Member
Gold Member
Aug 28, 2014
6,424
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Richmond, VA
You think graduating makes you more or better than those who didn't? I'll tell you the hole in your logic: no one here has left, or has chosen to be a fan of another school. For some reason, we are all Gamecocks. Even the ones howling and screaming. They haven't decided to be clemsuck fans or Alabama fans, they are Gamecocks. Many here donate to the school even if they didn't attend. Many pour heart and soul into the well-being of the athletic programs.

Why do you think there is so much anger? If those other people weren't Gamecocks, they wouldn't be mad, they'd just walk away, pick another school or team. They'd just stop beating their heads into that wall. But rather they want things to change for the better.

So for you to post a huge wall of text about how you're a real fan because you're a Gamecock and not just a fan is something funny to me. We are all Gamecocks or the ones you're deriding for trying to enact change (many of whom are season ticket holders for several sports and graduates themselves) would just leave. They'd go cheer on Clemsun or Bama or someone else who is on top all the time. We don't want that. They don't want that. They want their school to b e professional and to be cared for by people who love it as much as they do, for whatever reason.

We are Carolina, and that hurts sometimes.

You think it takes 6 or 7 years to trend in the right direction, or make noticeable improvements? That is a disappointment in and of itself.
 
Jan 7, 2004
136
120
43
The biggest difference is that SOS and a Holtz both had a track record of success. WM does not...

I have no doubt that this is a difficult challenge for any coach, but it’s why we need someone strong to take us to the next level, not a recycled coach that did less at a school with fewer challenges.

Extremely valid point!

But CWM can obviously coach - look at his jobs and titles. Being a HC is a different animal and everyone is not cut out for it.

Ge may not be the guy, but we can’t give it a fair shake until he’s had 6 years IMO. And I if we start over now, we will most likely be in the exact same place in 4 more years. We could hit the lottery, but it would be with a young, iun-proven Coach it the likes of a Holtz or Spurrier.
 

lambertnephew

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This is the fan I started seeing coming in around the last 2/3 of spurrier’s time, becoming obviously apparent in the capital one season. It was not only embarrassing, it was unacceptable. You know what was unacceptable to me? THIS kind of mindset. That was when I gave it up.


And lo and behold, here it is yet, expressing its enlightenment while disguising itself as Gamecock Nation.

Lol! Loser! Sheep! Tanner! Muskrat! BOT! Fool! Bark! Bark! Bark!

I’ve read your posts. Another poster on here warned me about you and Carolinamyke. You are both Clemson fans. You’d have to be to defend the people in charge that are destroying this athletic program right now. Raise your standards, loser.
 
Jan 7, 2004
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You think graduating makes you more or better than those who didn't? I'll tell you the hole in your logic: no one here has left, or has chosen to be a fan of another school. For some reason, we are all Gamecocks. Even the ones howling and screaming. They haven't decided to be clemsuck fans or Alabama fans, they are Gamecocks. Many here donate to the school even if they didn't attend. Many pour heart and soul into the well-being of the athletic programs.

Why do you think there is so much anger? If those other people weren't Gamecocks, they wouldn't be mad, they'd just walk away, pick another school or team. They'd just stop beating their heads into that wall. But rather they want things to change for the better.

So for you to post a huge wall of text about how you're a real fan because you're a Gamecock and not just a fan is something funny to me. We are all Gamecocks or the ones you're deriding for trying to enact change (many of whom are season ticket holders for several sports and graduates themselves) would just leave. They'd go cheer on Clemsun or Bama or someone else who is on top all the time. We don't want that. They don't want that. They want their school to b e professional and to be cared for by people who love it as much as they do, for whatever reason.

We are Carolina, and that hurts sometimes.

You think it takes 6 or 7 years to trend in the right direction, or make noticeable improvements? That is a disappointment in and of itself.

I never said most of what you are attributing to me. I’ve never said that being a graduate is the difference from a real fan and pretenders - you made those assumptions.

move asked when someone graduated to get an idea of their age and jay how Daimler they are with Gamecock football. I have friends that went to school with me who are less interested in Gamecock football than worthy of my brothers, one of which graduated from Furman.

Show me a single coach in our history that has has sustained success after just 3 years. Even Spurrier finished 9-10 and the recruiting issues under his watch started a dumpster fire of recruiting issues we are still fighting. Note/ I love Spurrier.

Only at the established blue-blood programs has a coach been able to come in a make long-lasting changes to our their team on a winning track - except maybe Miami that sort of cane out of nowhere In the 80’s.

CU fans were kissed at Dabo after 5 in a row and wanted him gone - I wonder where they would be right now had they made that change in year 5?
 
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Sending an SOS

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Aug 20, 2005
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Extremely valid point!

But CWM can obviously coach - look at his jobs and titles. Being a HC is a different animal and everyone is not cut out for it.

Ge may not be the guy, but we can’t give it a fair shake until he’s had 6 years IMO. And I if we start over now, we will most likely be in the exact same place in 4 more years. We could hit the lottery, but it would be with a young, iun-proven Coach it the likes of a Holtz or Spurrier.
I have no doubts the guy is smart, and I’d even say he’s a great DC. But he does not know how to stay out of the offense. A good head coach will hire great talent around him and let them loose. His stubbornness will get us nowhere.

And how do we define a great coach anyway?

I’d say Dabo himself isn’t a great coach, but he’s a great CEO. He knows how to be the face of the program while leaning on extremely talented coordinators to focus on the Xs and Os. My opinion is that we need someone like that if we want to truly turn this program around. I actually think PJ Fleck is the perfect candidate, but there are others who can be successful here.
 
Jan 7, 2004
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I’ve read your posts. Another poster on here warned me about you and Carolinamyke. You are both Clemson fans. You’d have to be to defend the people in charge that are destroying this athletic program right now. Raise your standards, loser.

you and the other “poster” are clueless

I am a proof graduate, Class of “90, Sigma Chi, and I detest ALL things orange - I didn’t even let me kids use orange pumpkins for Halloween. My oldest graduated from USC in 17, my middle in 19, and m youngest is a junior there now.

I have about 20-30 that will be tailgating at the BP station right beside the stadium - wVIC has their live fee right beside us also.

Come by and introduce yourself- we may even give you a beer and feed you.

don’t ever question my love for my university or its teams.

forever to thee
 
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Pal - did you feel that way with Paul & Soarky too? Holtz was the beginning of change for us, but he was right on average for our history for his 5 years. It took Sourrier. One do the greatest college coaches ever, 7 years to win double digit games, and he did it 3 years in a row before going 7-6 and then 2-4 before resigning.

CWM took over a dumpster fire for recruiting and will need at least 6-7 years to be fairly judged.
Absurd.It's like being diagnosed with cancer and waiting 3 or 4 years to begin treatment.
 
Jan 7, 2004
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I have no doubts the guy is smart, and I’d even say he’s a great DC. But he does not know how to stay out of the offense. A good head coach will hire great talent around him and let them loose. His stubbornness will get us nowhere.

And how do we define a great coach anyway?

I’d say Dabo himself isn’t a great coach, but he’s a great CEO. He knows how to be the face of the program while leaning on extremely talented coordinators to focus on the Xs and Os. My opinion is that we need someone like that if we want to truly turn this program around. I actually think PJ Fleck is the perfect candidate, but there are others who can be successful here.
I have no doubts the guy is smart, and I’d even say he’s a great DC. But he does not know how to stay out of the offense. A good head coach will hire great talent around him and let them loose. His stubbornness will get us nowhere.

And how do we define a great coach anyway?

I’d say Dabo himself isn’t a great coach, but he’s a great CEO. He knows how to be the face of the program while leaning on extremely talented coordinators to focus on the Xs and Os. My opinion is that we need someone like that if we want to truly turn this program around. I actually think PJ Fleck is the perfect candidate, but there are others who can be successful here.

Again - GREAT points I’ve alluded to as well. Great HC’s don’t necessarily have to be great coaches - Ray Croc didn’t build McDonald's because he personally cooked the best hamburgers.

Agree that CWM MUST make drastic changes to staff AND philosophy if he is going to have a future as a HC. And yes, he has to get out of the way.

If he doesn’t make wholesale changes like that for next year. He has to go. I 100% would get behind that. But if does make those changes and we see an offense that is scrolling points next year, you would agree we have to give him another year?
 
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Absurd.It's like being diagnosed with cancer and waiting 3 or 4 years to begin treatment.

so you think, no matter what, CWM is wrong for USC? That he is the same as cancer and we need to rid ourselves of him ASAP?

Who then should we hire? Give me a short list of 4-5 candidates please.
 

paladin181

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I never said most of what you are attributing to me. I’ve never said that being a graduate is the difference from a real fan and pretenders - you made those assumptions.

move asked when someone graduated to get an idea of their age and jay how Daimler they are with Gamecock football. I have friends that went to school with me who are less interested in Gamecock football than worthy of my brothers, one of which graduated from Furman.

Show me a single coach in our history that has has sustained success after just 3 years. Even Spurrier finished 9-10 and the recruiting issues under his watch started a dumpster fire of recruiting issues we are still fighting. Note/ I love Spurrier.

Only at the established blue-blood programs has a coach been able to come in a make long-lasting changes to our their team on a winning track - except maybe Miami that sort of cane out of nowhere In the 80’s.

CU fans were kissed at Dabo after 5 in a row and wanted him gone - I wonder where they would be right now had they made that change in year 5?
To compare Muschamp to Spurrier is ludicrous. Spurrier beat top 25 teams and had us ranked several times in his first few years. On the other hand, Muschamp has looked scared and we lose when an opponent has a number by their name. Only two times has he beaten a ranked opponent: Tennessee before anyone realized they shouldn't be ranked, and UGA this year. This isn't about, give him time, he can do it. He did the same thing at Florida, and they got rid of him because the writing was on the wall. A loss to a Sun Belt conference team is bad, maybe not "inexcusable" as others have said, but it's bad. Coupled with losing SEVERAL games in which we led by double digits going into the 4th quarter is astounding. I don't know the stats, but that has to be some kind of anomaly in college football. These are systemic problems that don't go away with a fresh coat of paint. The wall is structurally unsound and must come down. We are always on the losing end and it is frustrating, especially when Dabo (who also too k a while to put things together there) is doing it right now in Clemsin. We all want success, and some people are a little more... antsy for it than others. But there's nothing that makes clemsun that much better than us that they can rise to be one of the most dominant football schools in history and we are staring down the barrel of a 4-8 season.

I don't think anyone thinks we should have constant 10 win seasons yet. But we can't even beat App St and lost to UNC, UF and Mizzou after leading late in the game. If you have a commanding lead in the 4th Q, you should win the game. THAT is a simple concept. Had we won those games, no one would be talking about Muschamp leaving because we beat Georgia (finally) and have a 8 win season. That's... pretty good considering. Hell, trade all those FOR the Georgia win, and people would say... 7 wins on that schedule. Brutal. Good job, but work to do better. The reason people want him gone is because the SIGNS of things getting better aren't there. Undisciplined sloppy play, bad ball discipline, missed tackles, caught out of position, can't complete a pass to the BEST PLAYER ON THE FIELD WHEN THERE IS NO ONE WITHIN 10 YARDS OF HIM. Run a VERY vanilla offense where most of us can call the plays that are coming with at least 60% accuracy. We have not scored 30 points against a FBS opponent all year. We did it 3 times last year.

By comparison, we did it 4 times in 2007, and 5 times in 2008 (Spurrier's 3rd and 4th years). You can't compare the two coaches like Muschamp has a prayer of turning this around.
 
Jan 7, 2004
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To compare Muschamp to Spurrier is ludicrous. Spurrier beat top 25 teams and had us ranked several times in his first few years. On the other hand, Muschamp has looked scared and we lose when an opponent has a number by their name. Only two times has he beaten a ranked opponent: Tennessee before anyone realized they shouldn't be ranked, and UGA this year. This isn't about, give him time, he can do it. He did the same thing at Florida, and they got rid of him because the writing was on the wall. A loss to a Sun Belt conference team is bad, maybe not "inexcusable" as others have said, but it's bad. Coupled with losing SEVERAL games in which we led by double digits going into the 4th quarter is astounding. I don't know the stats, but that has to be some kind of anomaly in college football. These are systemic problems that don't go away with a fresh coat of paint. The wall is structurally unsound and must come down. We are always on the losing end and it is frustrating, especially when Dabo (who also too k a while to put things together there) is doing it right now in Clemsin. We all want success, and some people are a little more... antsy for it than others. But there's nothing that makes clemsun that much better than us that they can rise to be one of the most dominant football schools in history and we are staring down the barrel of a 4-8 season.

I don't think anyone thinks we should have constant 10 win seasons yet. But we can't even beat App St and lost to UNC, UF and Mizzou after leading late in the game. If you have a commanding lead in the 4th Q, you should win the game. THAT is a simple concept. Had we won those games, no one would be talking about Muschamp leaving because we beat Georgia (finally) and have a 8 win season. That's... pretty good considering. Hell, trade all those FOR the Georgia win, and people would say... 7 wins on that schedule. Brutal. Good job, but work to do better. The reason people want him gone is because the SIGNS of things getting better aren't there. Undisciplined sloppy play, bad ball discipline, missed tackles, caught out of position, can't complete a pass to the BEST PLAYER ON THE FIELD WHEN THERE IS NO ONE WITHIN 10 YARDS OF HIM. Run a VERY vanilla offense where most of us can call the plays that are coming with at least 60% accuracy. We have not scored 30 points against a FBS opponent all year. We did it 3 times last year.

By comparison, we did it 4 times in 2007, and 5 times in 2008 (Spurrier's 3rd and 4th years). You can't compare the two coaches like Muschamp has a prayer of turning this around.

You make a bunch of great points - most of which are dead on and can’t be denied.

I share your sentiment in that it’s how we are losing and how we look, not just that we are losing.

We have been ranked under CWM and he did have One very good season.

If he’s doesn't make wholesale changes in offensive philosophy, including a new OC - then next year has to be his last without clear signs of improvement. - and by improvement, we are talking more W’s. Agreed?

But if/when we bring in a new guy, how long does he have to establish himself and the program? We can’t just keep making changes every 4-5 years.
 

paladin181

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You make a bunch of great points - most of which are dead on and can’t be denied.

I share your sentiment in that it’s how we are losing and how we look, not just that we are losing.

We have been ranked under CWM and he did have One very good season.

If he’s doesn't make wholesale changes in offensive philosophy, including a new OC - then next year has to be his last without clear signs of improvement. - and by improvement, we are talking more W’s. Agreed?

But if/when we bring in a new guy, how long does he have to establish himself and the program? We can’t just keep making changes every 4-5 years.
He has to make progress. It's not about 10-11 wins in 4 seasons. It's about trending in the right direction.
 

Goose cock

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he may or may not be the guy. I hope he’s the guy or we are being another 4-5 years. I am just saying I think the jury is still out.

He is finishing his 8th year as a head coach (with 5 different offensive coordinators). The jury is NOT still out. He is a terrible coach. If you followed what went on at Florida that decision was made.
 

EgotisticalGamecock

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I never said most of what you are attributing to me. I’ve never said that being a graduate is the difference from a real fan and pretenders - you made those assumptions.

move asked when someone graduated to get an idea of their age and jay how Daimler they are with Gamecock football. I have friends that went to school with me who are less interested in Gamecock football than worthy of my brothers, one of which graduated from Furman.

Show me a single coach in our history that has has sustained success after just 3 years. Even Spurrier finished 9-10 and the recruiting issues under his watch started a dumpster fire of recruiting issues we are still fighting. Note/ I love Spurrier.

Only at the established blue-blood programs has a coach been able to come in a make long-lasting changes to our their team on a winning track - except maybe Miami that sort of cane out of nowhere In the 80’s.

CU fans were kissed at Dabo after 5 in a row and wanted him gone - I wonder where they would be right now had they made that change in year 5?

Many bring up that Spurrier left us for dead and the barn empty. How bad did he really leave us? The best teams that Muschamp has had here so far were with Spurrier's recruits. Muschamp is 15-11 with Spurrier's upperclassmen and he's about to be 11-14 with his own upperclassmen.

Should Spurrier have retired after the 2013 season? Absolutely!! But he was begged to return by the same guy that found us Muschamp after having months of a headstart to find Spurrier's successor. We can't continue to blame Spurrier for everything.
 

uscnoklahoma2

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Pal - did you feel that way with Paul & Soarky too? Holtz was the beginning of change for us, but he was right on average for our history for his 5 years. It took Sourrier. One do the greatest college coaches ever, 7 years to win double digit games, and he did it 3 years in a row before going 7-6 and then 2-4 before resigning.

CWM took over a dumpster fire for recruiting and will need at least 6-7 years to be fairly judged.
6 or 7 years huh? You serious Clark?
 

hmkcarolina

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Good thought and comment provoking post by Progcockstin8r. I agree by next year there must be a new OC, an evaluation of other assistants and improvement must commence from Game 1 of next season -- should any of these not occur, we rewind the process and start over with a new HC. I would add that in any event Tanner must be replaced sooner rather than later. Unfortunately, while he may be a good fellow and a great baseball coach, he is not a competent AD and regardless of our football team's fortunes, we need excellence at the AD position to get revenue sports back on a positive track and keep them there.