Is College Athletics heading toward only Two major Super Conferences, aka NFL, MLB?

PabloSC

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It appears that the leadership of the SEC may be leading the way toward dismantling the NCAA as we currently know it and creating TWO Super Conferences with the best of all 5 current Power 5 conferences in it. This will likely look like an East Super Conference and a West Super Conference. It is the natural progression of the sport to split into two "Leagues" that play each other for the National title, just like the Super Bowl (AFC/NFC) and the World Series (American/National Leagues).

Imagine an East Coast Super Conference with all the current SEC teams, plus OU and TX, plus another 16 teams to fill out the Conference to 32 teams. Then you would have the West Super Conference made up of the PAC 12 plus enough teams to get to 32 teams. Each Conference would have it's own rules within a guideline set by the NCAA. Again, think NFL and MLB.

This is where things are heading. So yes, Clemson is coming in, as is UNC, UVA, NC State, VT, ND, OSU, Michigan, Wisc, Pitt, WV, FSU, OK State, etc. That's 14 teams I just mentioned. They need 16 on the East Super Conference roster, so who are they? I left out Miami, so theres another one. Maybe Georgia Tech? Boston college? Syracuse? Penn State?

So you can see, some big name schools are going to be left with no chair to sit in once the music stops playing. This is why TX and OU are shoe-ins for the SEC,;they want to control their own destiny and be involved in writing the rules as to who the other 16 schools are in the East League.

So who will make up the West League?
 

Captain Weegie

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I'm not sure that enough people out West care enough about college sports to create a second super conference. The same goes for the Northeast.
 

Carolina4

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It appears that the leadership of the SEC may be leading the way toward dismantling the NCAA as we currently know it and creating TWO Super Conferences with the best of all 5 current Power 5 conferences in it. This will likely look like an East Super Conference and a West Super Conference. It is the natural progression of the sport to split into two "Leagues" that play each other for the National title, just like the Super Bowl (AFC/NFC) and the World Series (American/National Leagues).

Imagine an East Coast Super Conference with all the current SEC teams, plus OU and TX, plus another 16 teams to fill out the Conference to 32 teams. Then you would have the West Super Conference made up of the PAC 12 plus enough teams to get to 32 teams. Each Conference would have it's own rules within a guideline set by the NCAA. Again, think NFL and MLB.

This is where things are heading. So yes, Clemson is coming in, as is UNC, UVA, NC State, VT, ND, OSU, Michigan, Wisc, Pitt, WV, FSU, OK State, etc. That's 14 teams I just mentioned. They need 16 on the East Super Conference roster, so who are they? I left out Miami, so theres another one. Maybe Georgia Tech? Boston college? Syracuse? Penn State?

So you can see, some big name schools are going to be left with no chair to sit in once the music stops playing. This is why TX and OU are shoe-ins for the SEC,;they want to control their own destiny and be involved in writing the rules as to who the other 16 schools are in the East League.

So who will make up the West League?
If this is the case not only will teams be left out, but teams that are in will be kicked out. No way this Super Conference would include Vanderbilt and leave out Penn State. If it does go this route, we should be in. But we’ll be on the tail end of it. It’ll be because of our fanbase and support rather than our performance on the field.
 

DrMickey

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With the recent talk of expanded playoff taking the top 6 conference champions, that pretty much would have guaranteed the Big 12 champ a spot in the playoffs - which would usually be fought between Oklahoma and Texas plus one other currently hot school. It seems crazy to me that they would want to join the SEC for that reason alone. Yes, more at-large SEC teams would get in. But it seems to me that winning the Big 12 would be an easier way to the playoffs.
 

GarnetBeamer

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It appears that the leadership of the SEC may be leading the way toward dismantling the NCAA as we currently know it and creating TWO Super Conferences with the best of all 5 current Power 5 conferences in it. This will likely look like an East Super Conference and a West Super Conference. It is the natural progression of the sport to split into two "Leagues" that play each other for the National title, just like the Super Bowl (AFC/NFC) and the World Series (American/National Leagues).

Imagine an East Coast Super Conference with all the current SEC teams, plus OU and TX, plus another 16 teams to fill out the Conference to 32 teams. Then you would have the West Super Conference made up of the PAC 12 plus enough teams to get to 32 teams. Each Conference would have it's own rules within a guideline set by the NCAA. Again, think NFL and MLB.

This is where things are heading. So yes, Clemson is coming in, as is UNC, UVA, NC State, VT, ND, OSU, Michigan, Wisc, Pitt, WV, FSU, OK State, etc. That's 14 teams I just mentioned. They need 16 on the East Super Conference roster, so who are they? I left out Miami, so theres another one. Maybe Georgia Tech? Boston college? Syracuse? Penn State?

So you can see, some big name schools are going to be left with no chair to sit in once the music stops playing. This is why TX and OU are shoe-ins for the SEC,;they want to control their own destiny and be involved in writing the rules as to who the other 16 schools are in the East League.

So who will make up the West League?

lol, MAYBE Penn State? You say UNC is in but only maybe PSU?
 

GarnetBeamer

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Big changes are coming. Major college football will eventually break off all by itself. Too much football revenue is being lost towards funding the non-revenue sports.
 
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uscg1984

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Still need to deal with Title IX.
The teams that are part of the 4 super-conferences will be able to play football and thus fund off-setting athletic scholarships for women. For those teams outside the super-conferences, the future of their football programs are less clear. If football doesn't pay for itself AND the off-setting womens scholarships, many/most may decide it makes more sense to scrap football altogether.
 

rogue cock

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The teams that are part of the 4 super-conferences will be able to play football and thus fund off-setting athletic scholarships for women. For those teams outside the super-conferences, the future of their football programs are less clear. If football doesn't pay for itself AND the off-setting womens scholarships, many/most may decide it makes more sense to scrap football altogether.
Ever been to a game in Youngstown or Athens, Ohio or even Boone, NC?
 

wbbesq

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With the recent talk of expanded playoff taking the top 6 conference champions, that pretty much would have guaranteed the Big 12 champ a spot in the playoffs - which would usually be fought between Oklahoma and Texas plus one other currently hot school. It seems crazy to me that they would want to join the SEC for that reason alone. Yes, more at-large SEC teams would get in. But it seems to me that winning the Big 12 would be an easier way to the playoffs.

You assume there will still BE a Big 12 and others who are invited to the party.....I think the 12 teams are likely...WHAT CONFERENCES get automatic bids into that 12, well, nobody has set that in stone.
 
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USCBatgirl21

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Title IX doesn't go away...those schollies will have to come from somewhere.
Easy...Super conferences will simply take the football numbers out of the equation. As the NCAA should have done years ago. Having football numbers in the equation unfairly penalizes the men. The numbers should only be matched based on sports that have both male and female equivalents.
 
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uscg1984

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Ever been to a game in Youngstown or Athens, Ohio or even Boone, NC?
No, but I've been to lots of games in Hattiesburg, MS, which I suspect is a similar environment. As I said in my post, I think the future of football in those towns is "less" certain. They have managed so far, but the paradigm is changing. It is not a stretch to think NIL, new transfer rules, and a potential 4 "super conference" situation could make it very difficult for these colleges to justify the expense of football. Any one of these would be a seismic shift for college football. But when you combine all three to a post-covid environment in which revenue streams are uncertain, I don't think anybody can reasonably predict where this will lead. I can forsee an even bigger money and talent gap will open between the haves and have-nots. I can also forsee waning interest among fans of the have-nots as their most talented players get picked off midway through their college careers by programs that can promise bigger NIL money.
 

rogue cock

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Easy...Super conferences will simply take the football numbers out of the equation. As the NCAA should have done years ago. Having football numbers in the equation unfairly penalizes the men. The numbers should only be matched based on sports that have both male and female equivalents.
They can't. It is a federal law passed by overwhelming margins.
 

rogue cock

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No, but I've been to lots of games in Hattiesburg, MS, which I suspect is a similar environment. As I said in my post, I think the future of football in those towns is "less" certain. They have managed so far, but the paradigm is changing. It is not a stretch to think NIL, new transfer rules, and a potential 4 "super conference" situation could make it very difficult for these colleges to justify the expense of football. Any one of these would be a seismic shift for college football. But when you combine all three to a post-covid environment in which revenue streams are uncertain, I don't think anybody can reasonably predict where this will lead. I can forsee an even bigger money and talent gap will open between the haves and have-nots. I can also forsee waning interest among fans of the have-nots as their most talented players get picked off midway through their college careers by programs that can promise bigger NIL money.
And I can see the possibility of people rejecting this "semi-pro" ball and going to watch true college football.
 
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USCBatgirl21

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They can't. It is a federal law passed by overwhelming margins.
It's a grey area as to if they can or can't. It's been reviewed that the NCAA model of including football in the numbers is flawed, could be changed, and still adhere to Title IX. It went after the fact that you have schools that don't have football that are still limited to 11.7 baseball scholarships. I read up and studied it years ago when I was at Carolina. I can't put my hands on the research without tearing apart my storage unit, but it can be done. The conclusion was the NCAA took the easy way out when applying Title IX.
 

rogue cock

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It's a grey area as to if they can or can't. It's been reviewed that the NCAA model of including football in the numbers is flawed, could be changed, and still adhere to Title IX. I read up and studied it years ago when I was at Carolina. I can't put my hands on the research without tearing apart my storage unit, but it can be done. The conclusion was the NCAA took the easy way out when applying Title IX.
The issue that has always been raised is that Title IX doesn't mention athletics. However, and it is a big however, at the time it was passed, several legislators attempted to add an amendment to the bill that specifically exempted athletics. That attempted amendment was soundly rejected. As a result, Courts, including the Supreme Court, have consistently enforced it as applying to athletics....citing that failed attempted amendment. On many occasions, the Courts have held that it applies to the athletic endeavors as a whole (all sports)....exempting none.
 

USCBatgirl21

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The issue that has always been raised is that Title IX doesn't mention athletics. However, and it is a big however, at the time it was passed, several legislators attempted to add an amendment to the bill that specifically exempted athletics. That attempted amendment was soundly rejected. As a result, Courts, including the Supreme Court, have consistently enforced it as applying to athletics....citing that attempted amendment.
I understand that. The issue is that the NCAA model is a "one size fits all model" that in fact does not fit all, because of the aforementioned schools that do not have football yet are still limited to 11.7 baseball scholarships. That makes no sense whatsoever. The research wasn't advocating that Title IX doesn't apply to athletics. The research recognized that it did, and thought it should. Merely that the NCAA model was flawed, and offered ways that legally they could change their model to not be unfairly skewed against male sports.
 

rogue cock

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I understand that. The issue is that the NCAA model is a "one size fits all model" that in fact does not fit all, because of the aforementioned schools that do not have football yet are still limited to 11.7 baseball scholarships. That makes no sense whatsoever. The research wasn't advocating that Title IX doesn't apply to athletics. Merely that the NCAA model was flawed, and offered ways that legally they could change their model to not be unfairly skewed against male sports.
That would benefit smaller schools that choose not to field a scholarship football team, but I don't see how it favors those who do.
 

USCBatgirl21

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That would benefit smaller schools that choose not to field a scholarship football team, but I don't see how it favors those who do.
Take football out of the equation because there is no female equivalent to football. Match up the sports that offer male and female equivalents, and do your numbers from there. They found a way it could be done and still adhere to the law.

I wish I could put my hands on the research that I found (and the LONG email I sent to Mike Morgan for one of his shows that he ended up reading on air that cited all this). I started it for one of my classes, and kept after it after school. Probably more so than most would because of my affiliation with Gamecock Baseball (and college baseball as a whole), and seeing how they were (and still are) treated as the red-headed step child of college athletics when it came (comes) to scholarship distribution.
 

rogue cock

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Take football out of the equation because there is no female equivalent to football. Match up the sports that offer male and female equivalents, and do your numbers from there. They found a way it could be done and still adhere to the law.

I wish I could put my hands on the research that I found (and the LONG email I sent to Mike Morgan for one of his shows that he ended up reading on air that cited all this). I started it for one of my classes, and kept after it after school. Probably more so than most would because of my affiliation with Gamecock Baseball (and college baseball as a whole), and seeing how they were (and still are) treated as the red-headed step child of college athletics when it came (comes) to scholarship distribution.
They don't fully consider football as it is. Men's and women's scholarships are not one-for-one. I seriously doubt you would see football set to one side and not considered in the formula. I think it would be more likely that the football scholarship numbers for each team are reduced some.
 

USCBatgirl21

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They don't fully consider football as it is. Men's and women's scholarships are not one-for-one. I seriously doubt you would see football set to one side and not considered in the formula. I think it would be more likely that the football scholarship numbers for each team are reduced some.
The 85 still unfairly skews the numbers. The NCAA won't change it, but I could certainly see once the NCAA is dissolved (y'all know it's going to happen) the Super Conferences doing so.

I do wish I could put my hands on it quickly because I'm sure you'd find it interesting.
 

rogue cock

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The 85 still unfairly skews the numbers. The NCAA won't change it, but I could certainly see once the NCAA is dissolved (y'all know it's going to happen) the Super Conferences doing so.
The NCAA will continue absent the schools in the P4 conferences. The P4 schools will probably set up their own regulating organization....that may take a little while to organize,
 
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wbbesq

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And I can see the possibility of people rejecting this "semi-pro" ball and going to watch true college football.
You really think the fans of all these major schools are going to wake up one morning and QUIT following teams they have followed for YEARS and say, "I think I'll become a Furman fan????.

That would be a big NO.
 

GarnetBeamer

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Still need to deal with Title IX.

there are certainly workarounds. People are out of control money hungry; they will find a way. Just doesn’t make sense for them to be dumping millions a year into other sports. Every decision that’s made is based in money, so this is already in the works.
 

rogue cock

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there are certainly workarounds. People are out of control money hungry; they will find a way. Just doesn’t make sense for them to be dumping millions a year into other sports. Every decision that’s made is based in money, so this is already in the works.
It will literally take an Act of Congress.

Have always wanted to say that when it was true. :)
 
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OldWiseCock

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Its just a hunch on my part, but it looks like it is just the B12 that is falling apart. If there is further realignment, such as expansion by the B10, the ACC or further expansion by the SEC, the remaining schools that might be up for capture would be W. Va., Ok State and TT. I just don't see anyone leaving the B10, the SEC or the ACC.

The PAC12 is too far away for any of its members to seriously consider the big 3 conferences.
 

uscg1984

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And I can see the possibility of people rejecting this "semi-pro" ball and going to watch true college football.
I certainly think there will be a longing for a "purer" game. I will probably be one of those longing for it. But I'm not sure how the Southern Misses and App States of the world avoid becoming "minor league" stepping stones for players who want to make the jump to the SEC or Big10 before the end of their college careers. I'm not sure that product looks very much like the "true" college football we all remember. There may still be fans willing to buy tickets to those games just for the fun of it, but the TV money will be even less than it is now, and if the P4 breaks off from the NCAA, which seems inevitable, there won't be any more "payday" games where they accept a million-dollar check to be homecoming fodder. It will be as if those programs don't even play in the same universe as the P4 teams.

Again, I don't know how this shakes out, so maybe my pessimism is unwarranted, but I haven't seen any trends in college football over the last 20 years that make me think they will get this right. The NCAA, the universities, the conferences, and ESPN seem determined to love college football to death.
 
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gamecock1999

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It’s possible this is heading toward a National mega conference that basically just takes over for the NCAA and establishes its own subdivisions and playoff system. Which is ironic because that’s basically how it was before the consolidation started except with a structured CFB playoff and probably less wasted money.
 

usc1855

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It appears that the leadership of the SEC may be leading the way toward dismantling the NCAA as we currently know it and creating TWO Super Conferences with the best of all 5 current Power 5 conferences in it. This will likely look like an East Super Conference and a West Super Conference. It is the natural progression of the sport to split into two "Leagues" that play each other for the National title, just like the Super Bowl (AFC/NFC) and the World Series (American/National Leagues).

Imagine an East Coast Super Conference with all the current SEC teams, plus OU and TX, plus another 16 teams to fill out the Conference to 32 teams. Then you would have the West Super Conference made up of the PAC 12 plus enough teams to get to 32 teams. Each Conference would have it's own rules within a guideline set by the NCAA. Again, think NFL and MLB.

This is where things are heading. So yes, Clemson is coming in, as is UNC, UVA, NC State, VT, ND, OSU, Michigan, Wisc, Pitt, WV, FSU, OK State, etc. That's 14 teams I just mentioned. They need 16 on the East Super Conference roster, so who are they? I left out Miami, so theres another one. Maybe Georgia Tech? Boston college? Syracuse? Penn State?

So you can see, some big name schools are going to be left with no chair to sit in once the music stops playing. This is why TX and OU are shoe-ins for the SEC,;they want to control their own destiny and be involved in writing the rules as to who the other 16 schools are in the East League.

So who will make up the West League?
Washington
Washington State
Colorado with Ralphie
Colorado State?
Utah
BYU
Utah State...?
Idaho...............?
....................................Montana State?
Boise State
Nevada
Wyoming
........................................South/North Dakota State!
Oregon
Oregon State.......?
Arizona
Arizona State
NMSU.....................................? .....New Mexico?
Air Force
Stanford
California Golden Bears
U of Southern Cal
UCLA
SDSU?
Fresno State?
...SJSU?
One team from Texas: UTEP?
Hawaii
Alaska
British Columbia
Guam
American Samoa

or something
 

mchuckyz

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It appears that the leadership of the SEC may be leading the way toward dismantling the NCAA as we currently know it and creating TWO Super Conferences with the best of all 5 current Power 5 conferences in it. This will likely look like an East Super Conference and a West Super Conference. It is the natural progression of the sport to split into two "Leagues" that play each other for the National title, just like the Super Bowl (AFC/NFC) and the World Series (American/National Leagues).

Imagine an East Coast Super Conference with all the current SEC teams, plus OU and TX, plus another 16 teams to fill out the Conference to 32 teams. Then you would have the West Super Conference made up of the PAC 12 plus enough teams to get to 32 teams. Each Conference would have it's own rules within a guideline set by the NCAA. Again, think NFL and MLB.

This is where things are heading. So yes, Clemson is coming in, as is UNC, UVA, NC State, VT, ND, OSU, Michigan, Wisc, Pitt, WV, FSU, OK State, etc. That's 14 teams I just mentioned. They need 16 on the East Super Conference roster, so who are they? I left out Miami, so theres another one. Maybe Georgia Tech? Boston college? Syracuse? Penn State?

So you can see, some big name schools are going to be left with no chair to sit in once the music stops playing. This is why TX and OU are shoe-ins for the SEC,;they want to control their own destiny and be involved in writing the rules as to who the other 16 schools are in the East League.

So who will make up the West League?
I just don't see this happening. I think the conferences will max out at 24 teams or less.
 

vacock#

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Put a female football player on scholarship and football becomes coed. No Title IX impact?