Is the bowl system sustainable?

[Gamecockben1979]

The bowls are getting hit due to:

1. “Opting” out for the draft
2. Covid
3. Transfer Portal
4. Now games themselves are being cancelled

So is this the beginning of the end of the bowl system? Certainly Covid will eventually wear off, but the other 3 issues seem here to stay.

I’ve always thought the bowl system would stay because of the large pockets the bowls themselves provide. However, I predict this is the beginning of the expanded playoff. It would reduce the number of guys sitting out and allow the games to be more profitable again.

 

[uscg1984]

As long as ESPN feels like they can make money off of them (live programing is very profitable during the time of the DVR), the bowls will continue to exist. But I do think it's all leading to an expanded playoff that will incorporate the bowls in some way.

 

[Neanderthal]

How ever many bowls an expanded playoff leads to will spell the end of the bowls left out - unless the money remains in them which the schools will always go for that money.

 

[Gamecockben1979]

As long as ESPN feels like they can make money off of them (live programing is very profitable during the time of the DVR), the bowls will continue to exist. But I do think it's all leading to an expanded playoff that will incorporate the bowls in some way.

While I don’t think anyone is too terribly sad about the Hawaii bowl, I can’t help but wonder what the reaction would be if it were the Rose or Sugar.

 

[Mcreekcock]

No, most bowls that don't have ties to the playoffs or the super conferences that are being formed will die off. The schools outside of these rich conferences will be operating on a much smaller budgets. Travel cost will be more than the payout for a lot of the smaller bowls...

 

[Carolina Doc]

I don't see why playoffs won't be vulnerable to the same forces.

 

[cockn'fyr]

I don’t see why, they’re exhibition games to take up air space during the holidays! Nobody really cares other than the fans of the teams!

 

[uscg1984]

How ever many bowls an expanded playoff leads to will spell the end of the bowls left out - unless the money remains in them which the schools will always go for that money.

That's certainly possible. A 16-team playoff could incorporate as many as 15 bowls. Outside of those 15 bowls and those 16 teams, it certainly seems like a challenge. I could see a few holdout bowls that might make a go of it with matchups between 8-4 or 9-3 P5 teams that finished outside the top 16. But these would be true "exhibition" games and I think they'd have to free themselves of the encumbrances of conference tie-ins to keep them viable.

For the record, that's not my vision of an ideal scenario, but that's where I think things are headed. as for the money, there will be so much money involved in an expanded playoffs that I don't think the conferences will miss the money from the lesser bowls.

 

[uscg1984]

Doc,

They would certainly be vulnerable to covid, but I think the theory is that if things ever get back to normal, players will have less incentive to opt-out of playoff games since they come with the chance to play for a championship.

 

[cockhornleghorn]

I'd prefer a 16 team playoff and do away with the bowls. So many of the bowls are during working hours that hardly anyone watches the games and the crowds are also sparse.

 

[USC ANDERSON]

I remember when there were only 4 or 5 bowls (Rose, Sugar, Cotton, Orange, etc) and it was a significant achievement to get invited. Per Google, there are now 44 bowls. Not sure but believe ESPN televises all except maybe Rose and perhaps another couple. Attendance is awful and when TV revenue declines so will the number of bowls. Can't figure out how increasing number of playoff games will affect Weedeater, Potato, Tax Prep type bowl games.

 

[Harvard Gamecock]

A great question. Some very interesting responses,
If there was an expansion of the playoffs as some on here suggest, I could see the model that playoff games replace, but not necessarily eliminate a bowl game. In other words one playoff game is played in Boise. It no longer carries the nomenclature of Bowl, but for the local Chamber Of Commerce, they still have fans of two teams come into town and Promotional ads on TV.
Very rough model I presented, but something to work with.

 

[JohnnySolo]

Glad I enjoyed the 3 bowl game wins I witnessed. They were special to attend and experience. Just another fun thing ruined by evolution.

 

[Neanderthal]

If the sponsors’ data shows the advertising is worth the amount of business generated I’d guess they would continue. If the money spent does not show up in money gained, they’ll die.

 

[Carolina Doc]

I don’t see why, they’re exhibition games to take up air space during the holidays! Nobody really cares other than the fans of the teams!

At one time, I viewed them as much more than exhibition games. They represented something special. Apparently, that is no longer the case.

 

[Carolina Doc]

Doc,

They would certainly be vulnerable to covid, but I think the theory is that if things ever get back to normal, players will have less incentive to opt-out of playoff games since they come with the chance to play for a championship.

Let’s hope so. However, in these times, I don’t put anything past those guys. They serve nobody but themselves. And with our full support.

 

[Blackland]

Make playoff bigger and get rid of meaningless bowl games, it will happen.

 

[Gamecockben1979]

A great question. Some very interesting responses,
If there was an expansion of the playoffs as some on here suggest, I could see the model that playoff games replace, but not necessarily eliminate a bowl game. In other words one playoff game is played in Boise. It no longer carries the nomenclature of Bowl, but for the local Chamber Of Commerce, they still have fans of two teams come into town and Promotional ads on TV.
Very rough model I presented, but something to work with.

Yep I think it’ll be like the NCAA tournament with a North/South/Midwest/West “bracket” which is a way to incorporate the bowls (or their cities) to keep the money pumping in to their economies in a playoff instead of a bowl.

 

[CockyinNoVa]

So long as the small bowls keep beating generic tv holiday ratings they’ll exist. These bowl games out perform most things on tv and that’s why they exist even if fans don’t fill the stadiums.

 

[DrMickey]

It all comes down to TV money. If the bean counters at ESPN or other networks decide it’s not worth the TV contract, then it’s all over. That’s the only way most of these bowls can afford to put on a show, especially when you see the empty stadiums at the majority of the bowls. But there are a few other things at play which could keep the bowls going. Here are a few thoughts.

1. Once the TV execs and conferences see how much more they can make off of expanded playoffs, the desire to hold on to the bowl system will wane. Except, my second point…

2. There is more political glad-handing between the bowl committees and conference execs than there is in congress. You should read some of Dan Wetzel’s writing (yes I know he’s not universally loved around here) about the behind-the-scenes money at major bowls to put on one game per year, with executive boards and conferences is exotic locations for school presidents, etc. It’s astonishing.

3. It’s because of this influence by the bowls that they were included in the financial windfall of the current 4 team playoff to begin with. The NCAA agreed to share revenue with bowl games and their executives.

4. If there is enough desire to keep the bowl system after expanding the playoffs, I wouldn’t be surprised to see the playoff money be used to subsidize the remaining bowls. As a return on the investment of all of the previous years.

 

[ToddFlanders]

I think it’s sustainable. As others have mentioned it comes down to TV money and the bowls get decent ratings (I think they are up across the board this year so far).

And it’s not hand-over-fist money that everyone is making, but it compensates everyone putting on the bowl nicely. Now the programs at smaller bowls usually only break even money wise, but they get a nice trip/experience for their players (which can help with recruiting and is also nation-wide advertising for their schools).

 

[funktavious]

The bowls are getting hit due to:

1. “Opting” out for the draft
2. Covid
3. Transfer Portal
4. Now games themselves are being cancelled

So is this the beginning of the end of the bowl system? Certainly Covid will eventually wear off, but the other 3 issues seem here to stay.

I’ve always thought the bowl system would stay because of the large pockets the bowls themselves provide. However, I predict this is the beginning of the expanded playoff. It would reduce the number of guys sitting out and allow the games to be more profitable again.

Well, the games being cancelled are a result of covid, so if covid wears off then that will fix the cancellation issue as well.

 

[TheChief15]

I think bowls can make it if tie ins are eliminated. Let bowls bid on teams and match ups they want. I would love to travel to different parts of the country for bowls. Imagine getting to go to the Hawaii bowl every 10 years or so.

 

[DarkCock]

The bowls are getting hit due to:

1. “Opting” out for the draft
2. Covid
3. Transfer Portal
4. Now games themselves are being cancelled

So is this the beginning of the end of the bowl system? Certainly Covid will eventually wear off, but the other 3 issues seem here to stay.

I’ve always thought the bowl system would stay because of the large pockets the bowls themselves provide. However, I predict this is the beginning of the expanded playoff. It would reduce the number of guys sitting out and allow the games to be more profitable again.

If so, then we'll see the further decline of South Carolina football to irrelevance. The number of teams from a conference will be capped. We're never making any playoff. Honestly, we sure consider abolishing the program. I'm tired of all the whining about the state of the football program from many of the same posters who whined we needed a playoff season. How's the playoff era working out for you now?

 

[fowl_mood]

Make them a home game for a better team which can then invite other teams. Only control is to determine like groups of teams to keep somebody from picking a poor opponent. You will get fans in the stadium. You will have interest from another market. Heck, make payout amounts based on who wins and who loses.

TV can slot the games. There's enough production talent around the country to do a decent production job. Announcers can work offsite. We know that.

It would be much more interesting.

 

[Gamecockben1979]

If so, then we'll see the further decline of South Carolina football to irrelevance. The number of teams from a conference will be capped. We're never making any playoff. Honestly, we sure consider abolishing the program. I'm tired of all the whining about the state of the football program from many of the same posters who whined we needed a playoff season. How's the playoff era working out for you now?

I don’t know if this really impacts us because the cold hard reality is that we have never really been relevant in it for better or worse. It’s hard to say the playoff era has had any significant impact either way on our program

I would not say we are NEVER making a playoff. Top 4 is extremely difficult but Spurrier had us knocking on the door of that territory. We have witnessed some things we had never seen in the last 15 years in Gamecock athletics. It is possible. Maybe not probable, but possible.

Another reason it COULD happen is I see an expanded playoff in the near future. That would make it easier for a program like ours. Are we traditionally a top 4–No. However if we had a 8 or 16 team playoff there would have been several times in our history where we would have been in the running or into that playoff.

 

[BattleshipTexas]

There are 41 bowls. Losing even a dozen won't be noticed.

 

[ReturnofAsimPenny]

Bowl TV ratings are really good and are far better than any other programming ESPN can put on. They are safe as long as Covid doesn't scare everyone

 

[ReturnofAsimPenny]

There are 41 bowls. Losing even a dozen won't be noticed.

It would be noticed by ESPN as those 12 worst bowls still get watched by more people than most regular season NBA or MLB games

 

[CockyinNoVa]

Heard the idea of having a pot of money that gets divided between the team. Winning team gets like 70-75% of it to divide among the players who dressed for the game. This now encourages less opt outs and motivation for teams to care about even the smallest of bowls.

 

[sprtanbrg_GC]

Just too many bowl games and mostly meaningless ones. Sure some of the lower tier teams that have never been to bowl take it serious but when you are not in contention most of these guys want to move on. It’s watered down for the most part.

 

[atl-cock]

It all comes down to TV money. If the bean counters at ESPN or other networks decide it’s not worth the TV contract, then it’s all over. That’s the only way most of these bowls can afford to put on a show, especially when you see the empty stadiums at the majority of the bowls. But there are a few other things at play which could keep the bowls going. Here are a few thoughts.

1. Once the TV execs and conferences see how much more they can make off of expanded playoffs, the desire to hold on to the bowl system will wane. Except, my second point…

2. There is more political glad-handing between the bowl committees and conference execs than there is in congress. You should read some of Dan Wetzel’s writing (yes I know he’s not universally loved around here) about the behind-the-scenes money at major bowls to put on one game per year, with executive boards and conferences is exotic locations for school presidents, etc. It’s astonishing.

3. It’s because of this influence by the bowls that they were included in the financial windfall of the current 4 team playoff to begin with. The NCAA agreed to share revenue with bowl games and their executives.

4. If there is enough desire to keep the bowl system after expanding the playoffs, I wouldn’t be surprised to see the playoff money be used to subsidize the remaining bowls. As a return on the investment of all of the previous years.

Wetzel wrote that article a dozen years ago. It's just as true now as it was then. Maybe even moreso now with players opting out of the bowls.

The NCAA should conduct a 16-team playoff outside of the bowl system. The champion of each FBS conference dances - and yes that includes all G5 leagues (unless the NCAA wants to conduct a separate playoff for them). The remaining slots got to at-large teams.

Seed the teams 1-16. Higher seed hosts each round until the championship game, which is held at a neutral site. Cities can bid to host it, or play it in Pasadena each year (as a nod the to Rose Bowl history).

Those bowls which survive can keep on trucking - maybe invite teams who had an early exit from the playoffs (and then you are back to players opting out - something which didn't happen when Wetzel wrote the article).

 

[atl-cock]

A great question. Some very interesting responses,
If there was an expansion of the playoffs as some on here suggest, I could see the model that playoff games replace, but not necessarily eliminate a bowl game. In other words one playoff game is played in Boise. It no longer carries the nomenclature of Bowl, but for the local Chamber Of Commerce, they still have fans of two teams come into town and Promotional ads on TV.
Very rough model I presented, but something to work with.

I'm in favour of the higher seed hosting the game rather than playing it at a neutral site. You may still have trouble filling the stands until you get to the semifinals.

 

[uscwatson21]

I'm in favour of the higher seed hosting the game rather than playing it at a neutral site. You may still have trouble filling the stands until you get to the semifinals.

These ideas of using the bowls as the playoffs locations are awful for the fans. It makes following your team the whole way only available to the richest fans.

 

[CockyinNoVa]

These ideas of using the bowls as the playoffs locations are awful for the fans. It makes following your team the whole way only available to the richest fans.

Agree. If you did the bowls you’d ask fans to travel to 4 sites on short notice all in 30-45 days. It will cause bad atmospheres and corporations buying up the tickets.

 

[Ratheolcoach]

I say keep the big 4, rose, orange, sugar, fiesta. Rotate them so that they host semi final games every other year. The two that aren’t can be quarter final hosts that year. The rest of the previous games are at the higher seeded teams home field. Quarterfinal games are the two mentioned above and Cotton and Cap One.

 

[atl-cock]

I posted the below link in FGF on December 16, 2015. Dan Wetzel posted the article in Yahoo! on December 7, 2009.

Wetzel's playoff plan: Money talks.

There have been quite a few changes in the dozen years since Wetzel posted this article, but the essence of it is still true today.

 

[DeBoer31]

It's a great question. I don't know the answer. I am pretty confident that college football interest and interaction overall is 100% going lower than it has been the last 50-60 years. So, everything will likely be affected including the bowls.

 

[USCBatgirl21]

If it thins it out to the way it was when I was growing up and going to a bowl was actually a reward for a good season, and not College Football's Participation Trophy as it has become in recent years, I'd be ok with that. Less bowls I think you'd have less opposition to expanding the CFP to 8, 12, 16 teams.

 

[atl-cock]

If it thins it out to the way it was when I was growing up and going to a bowl was actually a reward for a good season, and not College Football's Participation Trophy as it has become in recent years, I'd be ok with that. Less bowls I think you'd have less opposition to expanding the CFP to 8, 12, 16 teams.

I like your phraseology, i.e., participation trophy.