Joyner said he is trying to flip XT

[wallycock]

No, my position is much more reasonable. South Carolina didn't have a history of pulling in top in-state recruits either. The truth is, the top in-state talent has tended to go out of state. Yet all of a sudden, a slew of NFL-level talent shows up in this one period of time, when South Carolina was around.500, you know, like you are saying with Clemson.

I also agree with you that thing go on everywhere. I don't agree that there is something particularly sinister at Clemson. Think about it. At Clemson, you basically just have to get through Florida St every year, and you can wind up in a major bowl/playoffs. Then Clemson, unlike most other ACC schools, can offer facilities comparable to some SEC schools. Pretty good pitch to make to a recruit. Maybe change your point of view every now and then, and you might not see conspiracies around every corner.



No, I'm not stretching the comparison at all. Those players weren't coming to South Carolina before, and they haven't been coming after. You have this one glaring period that sticks out like a sore thumb.


I'm fully aware of Clemson's prior probation. It's not "some of the most aggregious institutionally sponsored violations in providing improper benefits to players ever documented by the NCAA." You have plenty of other schools that have committed equal or more serious infractions. Here's a little tidbit for you. 30 schools at the FBS level have won national championships in football. Of those 30, only one (BYU) has never been on probation.

Here's the real truth. The reason you think Clemson is cheating is because you're jealous. Your jealous Clemson has been so successful against Carolina, and your jealous that Clemson has won 2 national championships and Carolina has zero.

By the way, here's another little tidbit for you. One school in the state of South Carolina has ever been stripped of a title in football. (Hint: It's not Clemson.)

Who doesn't want to win? We may have a 5-6 year period of unprecedented success in our history, but what glares is the 20 year period between Clempson's last probation and the recent meteoric rise in recruiting culminating in a victory over Bama in the NC game. It was 6 years from the time Charlie Pell took over at Clempson to the 1981 championship season. It was 6 years from the time of Clempson's 2010 losing season/2011 recruiting anomaly to the 2016 season/2017 NC. I guess it only takes 5-6 years to contend for a NC if you can get the right players by whatever means it takes.

Your point that .... "30 schools at the FBS level have won national championships in football. Of those 30, only one (BYU) has never been on probation" proves one point only. You basically are admitting that Clempson has cheated and likely is cheating to win, and that it is ok because the other NC schools did it to win too.

GOTCHA!

We think very bad things of Clempson because Clempson has done very bad things!

 

[jimnasium]

All the Tiger posters on here talking about Carolina being a .500 program before Jeffrey etc well what was Clemson before Charlie Pell ....a .500 team. Probation cleaned you up but you fired Ken Hatfield after averaging 8 wins because he wouldn't cheat. Now since Dabo Clemson has become the Garden of Eden of college football and everybody wants to be a Tiger now? Bull. UNC proves the NCAA won't do anything so why not roll the dice and load up. What has changed at Clemson since the Bowden days that makes it so wonderful now? Nothing has changed but the recruiting tactics.

 

[mUSCle Gamecock]

If I had the talent to play college football and Being a lifelong Gamecock fan, there is absolutely no way in the world that I would choose Clem over the Gamecocks. I don't care what they offered I would not even entertain an unofficial visit.

 

[Legit06]

Guess people can make accusations as facts even though it is their unsubsantiated opinion. Just sayin

 

[coolcock2001]

I just can't figure out why anyone would want to go to Clemson

 

[flatwoodcock]

Ok. You're either an idiot or you are under the age of 35. We Gamecock fans think bad things of Clemson because Clemson has done very bad things more than just once. Charlie Pell and Danny Ford's tenure produced 2 NCAA probations for some of the most aggregious institutionally sponsored violations in providing improper benefits to players ever documented by the NCAA. Ken Hatfield followed Ford, and he cleaned all the crap up, and was not only hated for doing so, but run out of Clemson as well. So, Clemson hired one of Danny's boys, but he couldn't compete without cheating, and Clemson ran him out too. You turned to Tommy Bowden who won more than those that followed Ford, but no championships of any kind. By this time, 20 years passed since the glory days when money flowed, and so did victories. The cheating supposedly stopped after the 2nd probation, and coincidentally so the championships. Bowden is canned, and along comes Dabo Gump who promises to put Clempson back on the map. After the 2010 season, Clempson is going nowhere when on national signing day in 2011 they land (3) 5-star players and (6) 4-stars. 2 of the 4-stars were from SC, all the rest came from FL, VA, and NC. All of the great players out of HS that USC signed during our great run were from SC! Why the NCAA didn't raise any questions about the Clempson's recruiting anomaly in 2011 is beyond me. So Dabo Gump has put Clempson back on the map like Charlie Pell and Danny Ford. It's pretty coincidental that they all played football at Alabama, the most penalized football program in the history of the NCAA! So yeah, we have every reason to believe that Clempson has returned to the practices that brought them all of their glory to begin with.

So having said all of that, are you an idiot or are you just too young to know Clempson's real history?

Here's a link to educate you in just some of Clempson's shenanigans that covered just basketball, which I haven't even gotten into.

https://www.si.com/vault/1982/03/08/616473/the-descent-of-a-man

You are exactly right and i remember the NCAA telling them if they got caught again they would get the death penalty like SMU did.

 

[LazyIslander]

The flaw in some of the "logic" here is that XT was a life-long gamecock fan. This board is the only place I've read that. In fact, I remember seeing photos of him from several years ago, one wearing a Clemson t-shirt and another wearing a Florida jersey.

 

[coolcock2001]

The flaw in some of the "logic" here is that XT was a life-long gamecock fan. This board is the only place I've read that. In fact, I remember seeing photos of him from several years ago, one wearing a Clemson t-shirt and another wearing a Florida jersey.

Y'all still got a commit from a good player man. Don't let it bother you that deep down he pulls for Carolina

 

[BigTomE]

No, my position is much more reasonable. South Carolina didn't have a history of pulling in top in-state recruits either. The truth is, the top in-state talent has tended to go out of state. Yet all of a sudden, a slew of NFL-level talent shows up in this one period of time, when South Carolina was around.500, you know, like you are saying with Clemson.

I also agree with you that thing go on everywhere. I don't agree that there is something particularly sinister at Clemson. Think about it. At Clemson, you basically just have to get through Florida St every year, and you can wind up in a major bowl/playoffs. Then Clemson, unlike most other ACC schools, can offer facilities comparable to some SEC schools. Pretty good pitch to make to a recruit. Maybe change your point of view every now and then, and you might not see conspiracies around every corner.



No, I'm not stretching the comparison at all. Those players weren't coming to South Carolina before, and they haven't been coming after. You have this one glaring period that sticks out like a sore thumb.


I'm fully aware of Clemson's prior probation. It's not "some of the most aggregious institutionally sponsored violations in providing improper benefits to players ever documented by the NCAA." You have plenty of other schools that have committed equal or more serious infractions. Here's a little tidbit for you. 30 schools at the FBS level have won national championships in football. Of those 30, only one (BYU) has never been on probation.

Here's the real truth. The reason you think Clemson is cheating is because you're jealous. Your jealous Clemson has been so successful against Carolina, and your jealous that Clemson has won 2 national championships and Carolina has zero.

By the way, here's another little tidbit for you. One school in the state of South Carolina has ever been stripped of a title in football. (Hint: It's not Clemson.)

You completely missed my point. Your trying to compare pulling kids out of state with landing in state kids. There have been many surveys published stating proximity to home is a major factor in determining where a recruit decides to sign.

 

[radcock]

Lol. That's not how it works. At all. Spurrier didn't pay players. Nor do Dabo and Muschamp currently. The only D1 coach out there who likely has direct knowledge of payments to recruits and players is Hugh Freeze. It is an absolute certainty that recruits and players were/are paid and families taken care of UNDER Spurrier, Dabo, and Muschamp.

USC's Rock Hill pipeline, which appears to be a bit dried up at this point, doesn't exist without boosters and players and families being set up. It's just how CFB works.

well aware of what a bagman is, however, brad scott was/is aware of what clemson recruits got/get paid. spurrier had no clue, and would have fired any coach who he found out about.

i think champ would just look away.

 

[NCGamcockFan2167]

I think it boils down to boosters that make things happen. I don't believe most coaching staffs are directly involved because it would be career suicide. I also don't think it takes millions of dollars just steady untraceable cash and some favors here and there for the right circle of close friends/relatives. It still comes back to recruiting at some point because if a lot of folks are doing it the program has to distinguish itself to the player some how. I just want us to have relatively equal footing in the pursuit of players...whatever that is.

I agree. All it would take is a nod from a coach to a booster at church and the payoff would happen. No evidence what so ever. Charges come on what can be PROVEN and all major colleges have gotten much much better at how we do things. Clemson does it better than some and not as good as others. It is the game all the big boys play. Get your head out of the sand.

 

[OzWizard]

believe it or not, recruiting is all about facilities, relationships and championships. With those three in place, top recruits come to you.

 

[OzWizard]

Y'all still got a commit from a good player man. Don't let it bother you that deep down he pulls for Carolina

Don't let it bother you that deep down your head coach pulls for UGA. See how that works. Just because a person is a fan or a grad from one school doesn't mean he won't give it his all at another school.

 

[BigTomE]

believe it or not, recruiting is all about facilities, relationships and championships. With those three in place, top recruits come to you.

I'd like to sell you my 100 acre plot of land on the moon.

 

[brunswickfan05]

Based on all of the statements about Dabo and Clemson cheating because they are pulling in 5 star talent from out of state with a mediocre record, why doesn't anyone on this board point fingers at Alabama and Nick Saban?

Alabama was mediocre at best and was not recruiting at a top level before Nick took over and overnight they were a football power. According to this site, you can only do that by paying players and cheating.

 

[cocky lady]

Six years ago is "awhile back" now? Please enlighten me on all the "little guys" who have gotten probation during this time. Ohio St received a post-season ban, just 5 years ago. (You recall they went 12-0 in 2012, but didn't play for he conference title or a bowl.)

Your claim was that the NCAA is selective in its punishment of the bigger schools in a given conference. Well, the facts simply prove you incorrect. Alabama (about the biggest name in college football much less the SEC) has gotten probation 3 times in the last 2 decades. Michigan, Ohio St, and Penn St, the most prominent names in the Big Ten, are the last three I'm aware of to receive probation. According to your theory, it should be Vanderbilt and Purdue, not Alabama and Ohio St getting probation. The facts simply don't support your argument.



Yeah, really. Having a legend in Lou Holtz didn't even result in a 10-win season. Spurrier was mediocre in his first 5 years at South Carolina. Spurrier averaged 7 wins and 5.6 losses during his first 5 years. If Will Muschamp has the same level of "success" in 5 years, he won't even be here.

So Spurrier being a legend didn't bring in top recruits for 5 years. Then all of a sudden, a bunch of NFL-caliber players show up. Then those guys leave, and Spurrier can't recruit to replace them. Yeah, doesn't look suspicious at all.

Both of your arguments are not based on logic or evidence, but are based on emotion and bias.

It certainly wasn't that Spurrier COULDN'T recruit to replace those guys - it's that he totally quit recruiting (turned recruiting over to his son who none of the high school coaches liked) & thought recruits would just come to him at that point. He had it made had he not quit and was totally dominating Dabo! We were ranked 3rd in the country (I have NO idea why Holtz didn't have success but he certainly cared nothing about beating our rival - Tommy Bowden owned him easily, so that is NO comparison - he just didn't get it done & was setting his son up as well)! Spurrier, on the other hand, DID get it done & proved winning at Carolina was right there had he followed through! He was in a much stronger conference and STILL did it. Dabo, I'll give credit for hiring well, also has a network going in Fla. and has thrived in the ACC - not so difficult - and Fla. St. was already set when Jimbo came on board. Even Bobby Bowden said he'd stay in the ACC since the road to the title is so much easier! But, back to these other conference teams & punishment, I stand by my feelings that the NCAA loves having Clemson & Fla. State in the ACC & gives them passes (and UNC in basketball) & for whatever reason they somewhat punish other teams in the bigger conferences since they have more teams to choose from in football! We got punished for WhitneyGate of all things to show they DO still punish teams, etc., LOL! Too long to discuss further but it doesn't take rocket science to recognize the difference & XT's announcement was VERY suspicious which is what this thread is all about!

 

[cocky lady]

Based on all of the statements about Dabo and Clemson cheating because they are pulling in 5 star talent from out of state with a mediocre record, why doesn't anyone on this board point fingers at Alabama and Nick Saban?

Alabama was mediocre at best and was not recruiting at a top level before Nick took over and overnight they were a football power. According to this site, you can only do that by paying players and cheating.

Obviously, it's because Alabama HAS a HUGE tradition and Nick Saban was a proven, successful coach who could much more easily pull Alabama back to greatness. On the other hand, who in the world was Dabo at the time HE started pulling them in - middle of the pack ACC (not a football stronghold) - but he started getting all the 5-stars out of "Florida" when he was struggling to hold on! Major difference in those two!

 

[BigTomE]

Obviously, it's because Alabama HAS a HUGE tradition and Nick Saban was a proven, successful coach who could much more easily pull Alabama back to greatness. On the other hand, who in the world was Dabo at the time HE started pulling them in - middle of the pack ACC (not a football stronghold) - but he started getting all the 5-stars out of "Florida" when he was struggling to hold on! Major difference in those two!

Don't bother.... these taters think they're on the same level with historical powerhouses after the past few seasons. They're too dense to understand that Clemson's recent success doesn't place them in the upper echelon of the college football hierarchy alongside historical powerhouses. Historically speaking, they're probably 3rd or 4th in the ACC.

 

[wallycock]

Based on all of the statements about Dabo and Clemson cheating because they are pulling in 5 star talent from out of state with a mediocre record, why doesn't anyone on this board point fingers at Alabama and Nick Saban?

Alabama was mediocre at best and was not recruiting at a top level before Nick took over and overnight they were a football power. According to this site, you can only do that by paying players and cheating.

I absolutely agree with you. I think Bama has and always will cheat. They are the most penalized football program in the entire history of the NCAA. The winningest teams Clemson ever produced have all been coached by former Alabama players and coaches. In the 70s when Carolina beat Clemson three in a row, Clemson brought in Charlie Pell, Danny Ford, and a number of other Alabama assistant coaches over the subsequent years. Bama cheats better than anybody, so they brought in guys who knew how to do it. They all played on teams that won big and were subsequently put on probation by the NCAA for violations. Dabo played under Gene Stallings who resurrected Bama and won a national championship, and Bama was also put on probation for violations during Stallings tenure. Dabo may not have ever received any improper benefits, but I guarantee you his teammates did.

 

[uscusc1987]

People need to stop making dumb comments about XT and him being paid, etc. Unless you have proof stop talking. I realize a lot of the comments are coming from Clemson Trolls trying to make us out to be bitter. Do we want XT, of course. Have our coaches given up? No. Has Kereon given up? No. Will it happen. Probably not but worth a try.

Yeah, they didn't pay players in the late 70s and early 80s right? The NCAA just hands down 2 years bowl ban and 2 years TV ban for extra deserts, rides, and t-shirts. Plus It was so egregious the acc added an additional year of no TV or a bowl. I am sure they would never do it again.

 

[uscusc1987]

And again, explain to me Alshon Jeffrey, Jadeveon Clowney, DJ Swearinger, Marcus Lattimore, etc. Everything you say about Clemson applies to South Carolina as well.

Lattimore and Clowney, the 2 best players you name grew up USC fans and were from our State. SOS was also one of the biggest names in college football. DJ and Jeffrey were also local SC athletes growing up gamecock fans. Not 4 and 5 star kids leaving the State of Florida.

 

[bisco loco]

Don't bother.... these taters think they're on the same level with historical powerhouses after the past few seasons. They're too dense to understand that Clemson's recent success doesn't place them in the upper echelon of the college football hierarchy alongside historical powerhouses. Historically speaking, they're probably 3rd or 4th in the ACC.

I would agree. Fsu, Miami, Pitt, Syracuse, and Georgia Tech probably are all arguably as strong or stronger than Clemson from a historical perspective (championships). IMO, Clemson today is where LSU was after nick won his first natl. championship there. LSU hadn't been heard from since the 50s before Saban got there, and he was able to awaken their program. 2 national titles later, LSU is considered upper echelon.

I think Clemson now, is where LSU was at the early part of their run. Only time will tell, if they can maintain and continue to compete. I think they will, as long as Swinney is coach. But college football can change rapidly, (see Texas longhorns, Baylor's rise and fall, etc...) which is part of the reason why it's so enjoyable. Teams can be on top of the world one moment, and can fall off in the blink of an eye. It's important to celebrate the moments when your team is successful, because recent success is no guarantee of future dominance.

 

[OzWizard]

For the life of me, I cannot figure out why the NCAA doesn't have someone reading this message board. There is enough evidence here to bury those tigers forever.

 

[SILVERSPUR-rier]

You do realize that Carolina was on probation with the 5 streak started, came off probation, and then went back on probation, all during that 5 year streak....

Yes, for serious things like helping a soon to be student get to a class he needed, baking cookies for the players, and having an AD that didn't fight at all to prove that a player paid the same price as other students for alternative housing.

Its not like one of our players killed someone while riding a jet ski at a boosters house or something. Or the parents of an athlete getting a high salary job with the school or an athlete living at a huge house on the lake at below market rate. Or a coach getting pulled over by the police for speeding and then rather than "man"ning up instead got the police officer fired....

 

[vehemon]

Don't bother.... these taters think they're on the same level with historical powerhouses after the past few seasons. They're too dense to understand that Clemson's recent success doesn't place them in the upper echelon of the college football hierarchy alongside historical powerhouses. Historically speaking, they're probably 3rd or 4th in the ACC.

That's the thing... it's only been TWO seasons. Any Clempson fan that's not nervous about this season is an idiot.

 

[Garnet chicken]

For the life of me, I cannot figure out why the NCAA doesn't have someone reading this message board. There is enough evidence here to bury those tigers forever.

Good question. Kinda makes you think that someone or several are on the take to never set foot in Taterville.

 

[cocky lady]

believe it or not, recruiting is all about facilities, relationships and championships. With those three in place, top recruits come to you.

True except Clemson didn't have that when they started hauling in all those 5-stars out of Florida when they were mediocre in the ACC!

 

[JSpears5]

The thing about discussions like this is that regardless of which fanbase in the country you talk to, every other guy cheats up to their eyeballs, but 'our guys' do not. Bama would say it, UT, UGA, UF, Clemson, USC, everyone except maybe Auburn (pretty out in the open down there). In reality, it is not about who cheats, but how much the coaches know about it. Every fanbase has donors that REALLY want to win and money to burn. At Ol Miss, the coaches were in the middle of it. I am not sure that is the norm. Every day, people throw rocks out of the windows of glass houses. No one is really immune. I will tell you if I hear that a Bulldog or Gator took something I believe it easier than
if I hear the exact same thing about a Gamecock. That is human nature

I will say that a lot of the benefits that the kids get are not outright hand outs. It is that high school admin that talks a teacher into passing him, the person who takes an SAT for him or makes sure that you can get into the new condo building beside the stadium at a reduced rent. Those are fans that are trying to give a kid a break because they are an athlete and they want them to succeed. In my hometown, that puts out a ton of NFL talent, Clemson does not get kids. Just do not. Fans in town is split 50-50 but kids do not go to Clemosn. That is not by accident

 

[OzWizard]

True except Clemson didn't have that when they started hauling in all those 5-stars out of Florida when they were mediocre in the ACC!

Football facility upgrades began in 2004. DS was solely responsible for bringing the first 5* (Spiller) in 2006.

 

[wallycock]

All the Tiger posters on here talking about Carolina being a .500 program before Jeffrey etc well what was Clemson before Charlie Pell ....a .500 team. Probation cleaned you up but you fired Ken Hatfield after averaging 8 wins because he wouldn't cheat. Now since Dabo Clemson has become the Garden of Eden of college football and everybody wants to be a Tiger now? Bull. UNC proves the NCAA won't do anything so why not roll the dice and load up. What has changed at Clemson since the Bowden days that makes it so wonderful now? Nothing has changed but the recruiting tactics.

Kinda what I was trying to say. You nailed it!

 

[cocky lady]

Football facility upgrades began in 2004. DS was solely responsible for bringing the first 5* (Spiller) in 2006.

Yes, he was, but it wasn't about "facilities" - Clemson was mediocre at best - middle of the ACC and not a very attractive conference for 5-star football recruits. It didn't stop with Spiller - a few others followed with nothing to attract them in football except Dabo! That just never made sense but, whatever - no investigation (or nothing claimed to be found) so it worked!

 

[ClemPharmD15]

dont know if champ is paying kids, but spurrier was not

Spurrier was not paying them but it went on during his watch. Eric Norwood is one example of a player who got cash. The guy who did it went by the ATM on the way to a basketball game. Eric was going home that weekend and needed some money.

Coaches don't pay/give gifts to players, that part is right. Somebody is giving players at major universities money or gifts.

 

[idohvac2]

Honestly allot of Clemsons success came from relationships and ties with Florida players that they had with, wait for it.....Brad Scott. I think we remember him. Him and his son are still instramental and still respected by major Florida high schools. One of the worst things that ever happened to South Carolina is to let Brad and Jeff go to Clemson. They hav3 killed it bringing in Florida players

 

[cocky lady]

Honestly allot of Clemsons success came from relationships and ties with Florida players that they had with, wait for it.....Brad Scott. I think we remember him. Him and his son are still instramental and still respected by major Florida high schools. One of the worst things that ever happened to South Carolina is to let Brad and Jeff go to Clemson. They hav3 killed it bringing in Florida players

Too bad he didn't do it when he was our head coach!

 

[cocky lady]

Tons of kids say this, regardless of where they commit. Gary Gray ring a bell? I hope DJ can have a positive influence on recruiting, and I can see how players could be influenced by a close friend, but obviously I have no idea how close DJ is to XT, Stephon Wynn, or any other player we are recruiting.

Well, he didn't sway Wynn, but I'm thrilled we have Joyner!

 

[jimnasium]

Too bad he didn't do it when he was our head coach!

Thank you