Love him or hate him - LeBron has delivered

[ToddFlanders]

He was the most hyped basketball prospect in the history of basketball - right at the forefront of the social media revolution. Anything short of a top 5 player of all-time and he would be considered a bust. That's pressure. And dude is about to be the all-time leading scorer in NBA history.

Oh, and he's also top ten all-time in assists (6th), steals (9th), +/- (3rd), 3-point FGs (9th), Win Shares (2nd), PER (3rd). And he won a championship for the freaking Cleveland Cavaliers.

So many dudes have been hyped as the next great one - he surpassed all expectations. In one game, I probably still take Jordan. But there may never be another one that is this hyped before walking on a court/field and exceeds everything.

 

[ElectricalCock89]

He’s a puss

 

[adcoop]

So, many people get wrapped up into the politics or whether Michael Jordan was better that they can't enjoy greatness. LeBron James has only had the longest prime of any basketball player ever. He is the NBA's version of Tom Brady. Since his 38th Birthday, the man has averaged 36pts, 9reb, 8asts a game on 53% shooting. This guy is playing guys half his age and only showing slight signs here and there of slowing down. He is not quite as explosive in the half court. However, everything else is there and he is become better as his shot selection has improved. He has not shot the 3 ball as well this year. However, that has even shown signs of coming back as he hit 9 threes in a game against the Clippers last week and 6 against the Celtics on Saturday. His problem is that his co-star, Anthony Davis, can't get healthy and what was Lebron thinking with the Russell Westbrook trade. With that one trade, he ruined his team. He will put the career scoring number in the stratosphere as I see him having at least 3 good years left and will probably finish in the Top 3 in Career Assists. I can't see him staying around long enough to catch John Stockton and you still have Chris Paul out there who seems to have no inclination to retire either. The hardcore NBA fans will really miss Lebron James when he is gone. It will be the same as Michael Jordan moving on , or a Kobe moving on. The good thing is that someone will always come along to compare to those greats.

 

[cocks rule]

He’s a puss

And a Communist who supports slavery

 

[adcoop]

And a Communist who supports slavery

Jordan is a Nike guy too and there were stories of his Air Jordans being made in Chinese sweat shops. Something tells me you don't have the same energy there. If you want to remain in your feelings about the 2020 protests in the bubble, have at it.

 

[cocks rule]

Jordan is a Nike guy too and there were stories of his Air Jordans being made in Chinese sweat shops. Something tells me you don't have the same energy there. If you want to remain in your feelings about the 2020 protests in the bubble, have at it.

Take leaps much?. 🤣 your hilarious. I wouldn’t celebrate Jordan or any rich athlete. 99% are pure trash. It’s extremely hard to stay true to yourself after becoming rich and famous. Still arguing with yourself? Lol

 

[adcoop]

Take leaps much?. 🤣 your hilarious. I wouldn’t celebrate Jordan or any rich athlete. 99% are pure trash. It’s extremely hard to stay true to yourself after becoming rich and famous. Still arguing with yourself? Lol

Okay, got it. You hate on everyone. Must be a miserable and tiring existence.

 

[cocks rule]

Jordan is a Nike guy too and there were stories of his Air Jordans being made in Chinese sweat shops. Something tells me you don't have the same energy there. If you want to remain in your feelings about the 2020 protests in the bubble, have at it.

Oh and I’m not a protest guy. 2020 protests? Which one do you speak of? There were lots of cities burning. Tried to stay clear of all that bs. Even here in little ole Greenville. Crazies everywhere

 

[cocks rule]

Okay, got it. You hate on everyone. Must be a miserable and tiring existence.

Na it’s very peaceful but thanks for asking. There’s only one that I worship but you do you. I’m sure ole Lebrun will have a place waiting for ya on the other side. 👍

 

[turncock]

He has been a great player and I enjoy watching him. However, I don't even believe he's the best of his generation.

Curry is a full 25% smaller than James and controls a game equally if not better. A good part of James success lies in his genetic makeup. If Jordan or Curry possessed James' physical attributes, there would be no discussion whatsoever.

 

[FCB 2013 treble]

The best

 

[ToddFlanders]

He has been a great player and I enjoy watching him. However, I don't even believe he's the best of his generation.

Curry is a full 25% smaller than James and controls a game equally if not better. A good part of James success lies in his genetic makeup. If Jordan or Curry possessed James' physical attributes, there would be no discussion whatsoever.

I’m a big fan of Curry - I appreciate LeBron, but wouldn’t say I’m a “fan.”

However, I don’t know if Curry would be capable of what LeBron pulled off - winning the Finals with three different teams.

Curry is the greatest shooter of all time - but that’s not the only part of his game. He’s a great leader too. But because of his size, LeBron was so versatile he could will a team like the Cavs to the NBA finals year after year. You don’t see many athletes able to change teams and end up with the same results. Especially not three times.

 

[bill222]

He was the most hyped basketball prospect in the history of basketball - right at the forefront of the social media revolution. Anything short of a top 5 player of all-time and he would be considered a bust. That's pressure. And dude is about to be the all-time leading scorer in NBA history.

Oh, and he's also top ten all-time in assists (6th), steals (9th), +/- (3rd), 3-point FGs (9th), Win Shares (2nd), PER (3rd). And he won a championship for the freaking Cleveland Cavaliers.

So many dudes have been hyped as the next great one - he surpassed all expectations. In one game, I probably still take Jordan. But there may never be another one that is this hyped before walking on a court/field and exceeds everything.

No doubt he's got to be top 5 all-time. He was also a good football player. I wonder what would've happened had he went that route instead.

 

[jsusc]

LeBron James has only had the longest prime of any basketball player ever. He is the NBA's version of Tom Brady.

I have to disagree. Lebron is not overrated.

 

[JohnnySolo]

Good basketball player but he doesn’t stop there. Opens his mouth too much about things outside his narrow lane. Wonder what he thinks about the tyre situation.

 

[FORKCOCK]

He's a tool and will never compare to Jordan.

 

[Boom4life]

He’s a puss

While that may be true. He’s still the second best player of all time by some. Personally I would put him at 1 because I don’t think it’s all about championships. It should be about what you do for your sport. Same as I don’t think tiger vs Nicholson is even close. Tiger single handily carried golf.

 

[adcoop]

While that may be true. He’s still the second best player of all time by some. Personally I would put him at 1 because I don’t think it’s all about championships. It should be about what you do for your sport. Same as I don’t think tiger vs Nicholson is even close. Tiger single handily carried golf.

It's not all about championships. If it was, Bill Russell would still be considered the GOAT. It's about the age group of the media and fans. You still have a lot of people that remember Jordan. That was their childhood hero or the top player when someone was still a fan of the sport and hadn't become jaded. In 20 years, Lebron will be unequivocally the guy as the Jordan fans get old and pass on. That's how sports tend to go. As time moves on and people's attitudes soften toward Lebron, you will look at the incredible feat of playing basketball 20 years, always suiting up win or loss, never having a major injury, and maintaining his body to be prepared to play at an elite level. Many fans of Jordan and others want to discount that. It's understandable as some of that is luck. However, if you are a GM and someone let you look in the future and tell you player A and B will both be elite with Player A giving you 20 years of elite play and player B giving 10 years of elite play. Which one will you pick? Some people will talk about the advances in sport medicine and training. Nonetheless, you still have to do the work. Kareem played 40 years ago and played 20 years. After Kareem, only about 4 or 5 players in the history of the league have done that. Kareem and Lebron are the only ones to be elite for that long. Even Kareem fell way off in Year 20. People talk about woulda, shoulda with other guys. However, they didn't do it. So, I feel Lebron gets short-changed a lot because he is so polarizing over "The Decision", not staying on one team, or politics.

 

[Boom4life]

It's not all about championships. If it was, Bill Russell would still be considered the GOAT. It's about the age group of the media and fans. You still have a lot of people that remember Jordan. That was their childhood hero or the top player when someone was still a fan of the sport and hadn't become jaded. In 20 years, Lebron will be unequivocally the guy as the Jordan fans get old and pass on. That's how sports tend to go. As time moves on and people's attitudes soften toward Lebron, you will look at the incredible feat of playing basketball 20 years, always suiting up win or loss, never having a major injury, and maintaining his body to be prepared to play at an elite level. Many fans of Jordan and others want to discount that. It's understandable as some of that is luck. However, if you are a GM and someone let you look in the future and tell you player A and B will both be elite with Player A giving you 20 years of elite play and player B giving 10 years of elite play. Which one will you pick? Some people will talk about the advances in sport medicine and training. Nonetheless, you still have to do the work. Kareem played 40 years ago and played 20 years. After Kareem, only about 4 or 5 players in the history of the league have done that. Kareem and Lebron are the only ones to be elite for that long. Even Kareem fell way off in Year 20. People talk about woulda, shoulda with other guys. However, they didn't do it. So, I feel Lebron gets short-changed a lot because he is so polarizing over "The Decision", not staying on one team, or politics.

Never thought about the age gap thing. Makes total sense. Good post .

 

[ToddFlanders]

It's not all about championships. If it was, Bill Russell would still be considered the GOAT. It's about the age group of the media and fans. You still have a lot of people that remember Jordan. That was their childhood hero or the top player when someone was still a fan of the sport and hadn't become jaded. In 20 years, Lebron will be unequivocally the guy as the Jordan fans get old and pass on. That's how sports tend to go. As time moves on and people's attitudes soften toward Lebron, you will look at the incredible feat of playing basketball 20 years, always suiting up win or loss, never having a major injury, and maintaining his body to be prepared to play at an elite level. Many fans of Jordan and others want to discount that. It's understandable as some of that is luck. However, if you are a GM and someone let you look in the future and tell you player A and B will both be elite with Player A giving you 20 years of elite play and player B giving 10 years of elite play. Which one will you pick? Some people will talk about the advances in sport medicine and training. Nonetheless, you still have to do the work. Kareem played 40 years ago and played 20 years. After Kareem, only about 4 or 5 players in the history of the league have done that. Kareem and Lebron are the only ones to be elite for that long. Even Kareem fell way off in Year 20. People talk about woulda, shoulda with other guys. However, they didn't do it. So, I feel Lebron gets short-changed a lot because he is so polarizing over "The Decision", not staying on one team, or politics.

The age thing is real. Growing up, Joe Montana solidified himself as the GOAT at QB, but the older crowd at the time (my dad being one) would swear up and down that Johnny Unitas was still better. I'll never know as I'm not sitting through hours of Johnny U tapes to find out. But the ones that grew up with Brady the last 20 years, think the same thing about Montana as I thought about Unitas. (Something fun for old people to talk about.)

Jordan will always get his respect (rightfully so), but LeBron (with his statistical dominance of the game, and quite frankly, backlogged media that has followed him from 16 years old and will always be available to watch) will be who people are talking about twenty years from now.

 

[CockySC01]

He may be a good bball player. But he will never have the same swag as Jordan, Pippen, Rodman or Larry Bird. He isn’t amongst the greats.

 

[Boom4life]

He may be a good bball player. But he will never have the same swag as Jordan, Pippen, Rodman or Larry Bird. He isn’t amongst the greats.

That’s crazy as hell.

 

[adcoop]

That’s crazy as hell.

Like, I say. LeBron is polarizing. So much so that people make comments about him that don't make any sense. Scottie Pippen and Dennis Rodman are in what I call the "Basement" of the Hall of Fame. You could even make an argument that Dennis Rodman does not deserve to be there. He is like putting Draymond Green in the Hall of Fame. Good at what they do, but not very well-rounded and skilled basketball players.

 

[Boom4life]

Like, I say. LeBron is polarizing. So much so that people make comments about him that don't make any sense. Scottie Pippen and Dennis Rodman are in what I call the "Basement" of the Hall of Fame. You could even make an argument that Dennis Rodman does not deserve to be there. He is like putting Draymond Green in the Hall of Fame. Good at what they do, but not very well-rounded and skilled basketball players.

I’ll cave to the Jordan claimers. I think he has an argument at goat for sure, hands down. But to say that Lebron is not it the top 5 is asinine to me.

 

[JohnnySolo]

He’s a big dude with quickness and gets to the rim easily. He can’t shoot or defend like Jordan. I would like to see him try to bully his way to the rim with Detroit bad boys, The Chief or Barkley waiting. Back then players weren’t puss and actually made you work for a layup or dunk.

 

[ToddFlanders]

He’s a big dude with quickness and gets to the rim easily. He can’t shoot or defend like Jordan. I would like to see him try to bully his way to the rim with Detroit bad boys, The Chief or Barkley waiting. Back then players weren’t puss and actually made you work for a layup or dunk.

IIt's definitely different eras though. LeBron isn't close to having the mid-range game that Jordan had. But he has shot better from three over his career (.346 to Jordan's .327). But again, different eras - Jordan didn't "grow up" shooting threes. LeBron is from the three-point or three feet from the basket era. They both played to their strengths.

That said, physically, he would have banged the crap out of the 80's. He's 6'9" and most think he plays at around 275 to 285 for most of his career (That's 40 pounds more than the Chief) - and he's way more athletic than pretty much anyone that's ever played. Of course he would have gotten more cheap shots back then, but he also would have been handing them out. He'd be his own enforcer - because he'd play like Jordan, but is bigger than Oakley.

 

[Boom4life]

He’s a big dude with quickness and gets to the rim easily. He can’t shoot or defend like Jordan. I would like to see him try to bully his way to the rim with Detroit bad boys, The Chief or Barkley waiting. Back then players weren’t puss and actually made you work for a layup or dunk.

The rules changing in the game is not his fault.

 

[adcoop]

IIt's definitely different eras though. LeBron isn't close to having the mid-range game that Jordan had. But he has shot better from three over his career (.346 to Jordan's .327). But again, different eras - Jordan didn't "grow up" shooting threes. LeBron is from the three-point or three feet from the basket era. They both played to their strengths.

That said, physically, he would have banged the crap out of the 80's. He's 6'9" and most think he plays at around 275 to 285 for most of his career (That's 40 pounds more than the Chief) - and he's way more athletic than pretty much anyone that's ever played. Of course he would have gotten more cheap shots back then, but he also would have been handing them out. He'd be his own enforcer - because he'd play like Jordan, but is bigger than Oakley.

It’s like if you gave Karl Malone ball handling and passing skills. Most people just don’t realize how big LeBron is. I remember LeBron and Jordan embracing at the 75th Anniversary celebration in Cleveland last year. LeBron made Jordan look small and Jordan is not a little guy. At least 4 inches taller and probably 30-40 lbs. heavier.

 

[Neanderthal]

I don’t think you can compare players in different eras. The rules change so the statistics change - in every sport. The training is much better now. And we have not seen enough of those who played before the media oversaturated us.

I do know which players gave me the most enjoyment watching them - Wilt, Russell, Hondo, MJ, Malone (both), Bird, Worthy, King, Chet Walker, Frazier, Connie Hawkins and more. In the days when you got one game a week, I’d do anything to be in front of that TV when Dr. J was playing. He was smooth, fluid, explosive, cool, and graceful. And a great man.

Nowadays, I like to watch Kawhi (but he doesn’t play too much like a lot of them). That’s about it. The rules have screwed up the game. The NBA has made a statement that it needs to control scoring by start calling traveling. I’d add carrying the ball, too. But the NBA powers created the problem and should take the blame. They don’t want anybody to play defense.

 

[adcoop]

One thing that fans of 80s and 90s basketball sometimes miss is that there are so many 3 point shooters on the court now that defenses have to guard a much larger area than they had before. In the 80's and 90's, you had two low post players and the other 3 players were no further than 18-20 feet from the basket. The spacing was much more condensed. As a result, it was much easier to play defense. When you add in the hand-checking defending was really not that hard. Now you have guys like Steph and Damian Lillard that the point guard has to pick up when they reach half court. You've got 4 and sometimes all five offensive players outside the 3 point line. Now, that point guard that just picked up the logo 3 point shooter has to guard that guy one-on-one without putting his hands on the ball handler. When you add in the factor of the back pick that is usually coming, it is almost an impossible task. Now, you have a big trying to guard a point guard which will end in a finish at the the rim unless you get rotation help from the corners. Once that happens, wide open 3 and the points pile up. Teams have used the 3 point shot as a numbers game. They figure if they pile up the 3s, then the other team has to shoot 50% from the field to compete with me shooting 33% from 3. The better teams shoot 38-39% from the 3 and they are going to try to get 40-50 3 point shots up a game. That's when I hear people talking about how the 80s and 90s teams would kill teams like today's Warriors I laugh. I ask what rules are we playing under? What's the style of play going to be? If they are playing under today's rules, modern teams would just spread the old school teams out, shoot threes all day and mathematically break them down. So, the rules have contributed some. However, some of these guards with extended range and the willingness to shoot those type of shots a lot have changed the game more.

 

[Flameout12]

That's when I hear people talking about how the 80s and 90s teams would kill teams like today's Warriors I laugh. I ask what rules are we playing under? What's the style of play going to be? If they are playing under today's rules, modern teams would just spread the old school teams out, shoot threes all day and mathematically break them down. So, the rules have contributed some. However, some of these guards with extended range and the willingness to shoot those type of shots a lot have changed the game more.

Interesting. I have no concept of MBB tactics/strategy/evolution.

Similar comments could be made for FB. If we go back far enough, some of today's college teams could beat a pro team just because things have evolved that much.

 

[adcoop]

Interesting. I have no concept of MBB tactics/strategy/evolution.

Similar comments could be made for FB. If we go back far enough, some of today's college teams could beat a pro team just because things have evolved that much.

It is similar to spread offenses in football with defenders not being able to put their hands on receivers after 5 yards.

 

[jsusc]

For me, today's NBA just seems to lack the personality you would find in the 80's and 90's. Like, the showtime Lakers not only had individual personalities, but the team itself had one. Same with the Bad Boy Pistons. If Bill Laimbeer played today he wouldn't just foul out, he'd get a prison sentence. The NBA is too smooth today, not enough rough spots. Too clean and corporatized, like NASCAR. There are exceptions, of course. Guys like Draymond and Kyrie in the NBA and Kyle Busch in NASCAR.

 

[adcoop]

For me, today's NBA just seems to lack the personality you would find in the 80's and 90's. Like, the showtime Lakers not only had individual personalities, but the team itself had one. Same with the Bad Boy Pistons. If Bill Laimbeer played today he wouldn't just foul out, he'd get a prison sentence. The NBA is too smooth today, not enough rough spots. Too clean and corporatized, like NASCAR. There are exceptions, of course. Guys like Draymond and Kyrie in the NBA and Kyle Busch in NASCAR.

That will likely never come back because most of today's players are like rich fraternity members that have known each other since 12-13 years old. Except for the late bloomers, they have all been playing each other in the AAU circuits for years. They are grinning, laughing, talking about what club they are going to go to after a hotly, contested game. They are not going to give you the "We don't like each other" drama that you got back then. They are a millionaires' club of AAU kids that made it.

 

[skinnyross]

No doubt he's got to be top 5 all-time. He was also a good football player. I wonder what would've happened had he went that route instead.

He would have sat out every other play, flop and try to draw a flag on every series he was in.

 

[Neanderthal]

One thing that fans of 80s and 90s basketball sometimes miss is that there are so many 3 point shooters on the court now that defenses have to guard a much larger area than they had before. In the 80's and 90's, you had two low post players and the other 3 players were no further than 18-20 feet from the basket. The spacing was much more condensed. As a result, it was much easier to play defense. When you add in the hand-checking defending was really not that hard. Now you have guys like Steph and Damian Lillard that the point guard has to pick up when they reach half court. You've got 4 and sometimes all five offensive players outside the 3 point line. Now, that point guard that just picked up the logo 3 point shooter has to guard that guy one-on-one without putting his hands on the ball handler. When you add in the factor of the back pick that is usually coming, it is almost an impossible task. Now, you have a big trying to guard a point guard which will end in a finish at the the rim unless you get rotation help from the corners. Once that happens, wide open 3 and the points pile up. Teams have used the 3 point shot as a numbers game. They figure if they pile up the 3s, then the other team has to shoot 50% from the field to compete with me shooting 33% from 3. The better teams shoot 38-39% from the 3 and they are going to try to get 40-50 3 point shots up a game. That's when I hear people talking about how the 80s and 90s teams would kill teams like today's Warriors I laugh. I ask what rules are we playing under? What's the style of play going to be? If they are playing under today's rules, modern teams would just spread the old school teams out, shoot threes all day and mathematically break them down. So, the rules have contributed some. However, some of these guards with extended range and the willingness to shoot those type of shots a lot have changed the game more.

Points well said. Then add in that they can carry the ball and take 3 steps (unless you are a post player) and that makes it impossible to guard.

 

[FORKCOCK]

For me, today's NBA just seems to lack the personality you would find in the 80's and 90's. Like, the showtime Lakers not only had individual personalities, but the team itself had one. Same with the Bad Boy Pistons. If Bill Laimbeer played today he wouldn't just foul out, he'd get a prison sentence. The NBA is too smooth today, not enough rough spots. Too clean and corporatized, like NASCAR. There are exceptions, of course. Guys like Draymond and Kyrie in the NBA and Kyle Busch in NASCAR.

I was in Cleveland for a company Christmas party. We went to a Cavs game after dinner. I was bored to death. It was nothing but a glorified 3-Point contest.

 

[Neanderthal]

I believe the players of yesteryear would have adjusted to the rules and competed exceptionally well today. Can’t compare players from different eras.

 

[Harvard Gamecock]

Nowadays, I like to watch Kawhi (but he doesn’t play too much like a lot of them). That’s about it. The rules have screwed up the game. The NBA has made a statement that it needs to control scoring by start calling traveling. I’d add carrying the ball, too. But the NBA powers created the problem and should take the blame. They don’t want anybody to play defense.

With a 24 second shot clock, teams now have barely enough time to set up an offense, it's now a game of grab and shoot.
So no, there is hardly any defense, and that is by design.

 

[adcoop]

Lebron is now 63 points away from breaking Kareem's all-time scoring record. Will probably happen on Tuesday vs. OKC Thunder.