Maybe Tanner should come out speak on behalf Pitchibg coach.
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After being on record for wanting Holbrook gone, i wont blame him for two mindboggling gofer balls thrown in the late innings by pitchers that should know better..But then again, pitchers don't put themselves on the mound...Ultimately the coaches are responsible...But imho this collapse was just sorry pitching..But then again we have seen sorry pitching in the late innings too many times this season
USCBatgirl21
Well-Known Member
Tyler not available because we used him too early Friday.
And our other pitchers not named Schmidt (who's out again), Crowe, or Hill getting teed off on.
But we have the best pitching coach in the Nation. WTFE!!!
And our other pitchers not named Schmidt (who's out again), Crowe, or Hill getting teed off on.
But we have the best pitching coach in the Nation. WTFE!!!
This was a game we needed, and I would have gone to Tyler and if we lose it under his arm, so be it...
Our hitters have been putting pressure on the pitchers... Pressure on our pitchers to make perfect pitches to keep the game close...
Actually, last I heard, by every measureable stat, we were at or near the top of the SEC in pitching!
Prior to today we had held them to 3 runs in 2 games.
As frustrating as that eight inning collapses was by Bowers and Reagan- who have been two of our worst all season, behind only SCOTT, at blowing leads this year- pitchinis generally not our problem. We don't score enough runs. Today it was bad bullpen work... the rest of the year it has been bad hitting and HORRIBLE calls by our HC that cost us games. I think singling out the pitching coach is pretty misguided. JMHO
Prior to today we had held them to 3 runs in 2 games.
As frustrating as that eight inning collapses was by Bowers and Reagan- who have been two of our worst all season, behind only SCOTT, at blowing leads this year- pitchinis generally not our problem. We don't score enough runs. Today it was bad bullpen work... the rest of the year it has been bad hitting and HORRIBLE calls by our HC that cost us games. I think singling out the pitching coach is pretty misguided. JMHO
USCBatgirl21
Well-Known Member
The bottom line is that no matter what, we will blow a series. That's on the head coach. If it's not, why pay him the big bucks?
I respect our coaches decision not to jeapardize a pitchers future by overextending him 2 weeks after returning from an an arm injury. Could it have won the series and helped to reduce some of the pressure on Chad for a few days?, yes?Would it have been the right thing to do?probably not.
I was screaming the same Thursday night. Should have waited an inning for TJ .
USCBatgirl21Well-Known Member
NewStats don't mean a damn thing when you're losing ballgames because your pitchers are serving it up fat.
Oh really? A .300 batting average is a stat, 20 Homeruns is a stat and 100 RBI. Hell...that's a stat too. You people have "no" clue, what you are talking about. Sure...You can point out a game here and there, where a pitcher, hitter or fielder fails. Stats give you a picture of the entire body of work. Meyers has been a success at Carolina. Careful what you wish for?
NewStats don't mean a damn thing when you're losing ballgames because your pitchers are serving it up fat.
Oh really? A .300 batting average is a stat, 20 Homeruns is a stat and 100 RBI. Hell...that's a stat too. You people have "no" clue, what you are talking about. Sure...You can point out a game here and there, where a pitcher, hitter or fielder fails. Stats give you a picture of the entire body of work. Meyers has been a success at Carolina. Careful what you wish for?
No doubt we have good coaches, but something about this mix we have is not working AT ALL.. Plus Leggett was a good coach. Where did he end up? No one knocking down the doors to pick him and he was a good coach.. Plenty of good coaches that show up to work every day. I feel like we are missing the guy that studies the game and plays to win not just to hang around too late innings and hope for the best. I am sure Holbrook isn't that type of coach but that is the results we are getting and have been getting since he has taken over.. I like Coach Holbrook.. I just don't think he can fix what we need. I don't think he can even see it needs fixing until he looks in the win-loss column at the end of the weekend.. Then it's too late.
Still hoping it turns around.. really thought we were going to pull the series out last weekend. I'm pulling for these players to end on a good note but I have ZERO expectations and what this team is actually capable of doing. So, I will hope for the best and pull for the Gamecocks and hope we can get a little run going to end on a positive note.
Still hoping it turns around.. really thought we were going to pull the series out last weekend. I'm pulling for these players to end on a good note but I have ZERO expectations and what this team is actually capable of doing. So, I will hope for the best and pull for the Gamecocks and hope we can get a little run going to end on a positive note.
USCBatgirl21
Well-Known Member
There is a reason the saying goes "Stats are for losers." The ONLY stat that matters is W-L (24-15 btw, with 16 to go).
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USCBatgirl21Well-Known Member
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USCBatgirl21Well-Known Member
NewStats don't mean a damn thing when you're losing ballgames because your pitchers are serving it up fat.
Oh really? A .300 batting average is a stat, 20 Homeruns is a stat and 100 RBI. Hell...that's a stat too. You people have "no" clue, what you are talking about. Sure...You can point out a game here and there, where a pitcher, hitter or fielder fails. Stats give you a picture of the entire body of work. Meyers has been a success at Carolina. Careful what you wish for?
Click to expand...
There is a reason the saying goes "Stats are for losers." The ONLY stat that matters is W-L (24-15 btw, with 16 to go).
Since 2000, Doesn't Carolina have the 2nd most wins in the country? Meyers has been the pitching coach for most of those seasons. Keep making my point...Batgirl!
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USCBatgirl21Well-Known Member
NewStats don't mean a damn thing when you're losing ballgames because your pitchers are serving it up fat.
Oh really? A .300 batting average is a stat, 20 Homeruns is a stat and 100 RBI. Hell...that's a stat too. You people have "no" clue, what you are talking about. Sure...You can point out a game here and there, where a pitcher, hitter or fielder fails. Stats give you a picture of the entire body of work. Meyers has been a success at Carolina. Careful what you wish for?
Click to expand...
There is a reason the saying goes "Stats are for losers." The ONLY stat that matters is W-L (24-15 btw, with 16 to go).
Since 2000, Doesn't Carolina have the 2nd most wins in the country? Meyers has been the pitching coach for most of those seasons. Keep making my point...Batgirl!
USCBatgirl21
Well-Known Member
You keep watching stats. I'll keep watching actual ballgames and watching our bullpen blow leads.
I'd love to hear how it's our hitters fault that we walked bases loaded and gave up a GS on Saturday.
I'd love to hear how it's our hitters fault that we walked bases loaded and gave up a GS on Saturday.
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USCBatgirl21
Well-Known Member
And how many titles did he actually win during that time? One. When he utilized the previous coach's pitching style
USCBatgirl21
Well-Known Member
USCBatgirl21Well-Known Member
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Since 2000, Doesn't Carolina have the 2nd most wins in the country? Meyers has been the pitching coach for most of those seasons. Keep making my point...Batgirl!
And how many titles did he actually win during that time? One. When he utilized the previous coach's pitching style
Florida State has the most wins since 2000, how many titles do they have? I know the answer...ZERO! So you're gauging success based on titles? Wow...It will be difficult to keep a pitching coach.
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Since 2000, Doesn't Carolina have the 2nd most wins in the country? Meyers has been the pitching coach for most of those seasons. Keep making my point...Batgirl!
And how many titles did he actually win during that time? One. When he utilized the previous coach's pitching style
Florida State has the most wins since 2000, how many titles do they have? I know the answer...ZERO! So you're gauging success based on titles? Wow...It will be difficult to keep a pitching coach.
USCBatgirl21
Well-Known Member
I'm not gauging success on titles. Just simply pointing out yet another "stat" for you. YOU are the one refusing to see that there are problems with our pitching staff/coach, when I and many others, ARE recognizing that the problems we have encompass EVERY facet of the team, yes even your beloved pitching. If the problems with hitting/fielding come down to the coach, then the problems with pitching also must come down to the coach.
USCBatgirl21
Well-Known Member
We lost Thursday because our pitching gave up hits that scored the scored the run. (It was earned so you can't blame it on lack of defense.)
See...it's an easy game to play.
The fact that Jack Legget's name has now been suggested as a new coach here illustrates just how bleak the college coaching landscape is regarding potential replacements for Chad. Sometimes you don't know what ya got till it's gone, with apologies to Joni Mitchell.
USCBatgirl21Well-Known Member
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We lost the series, because we scored "ZERO" runs on Thursday night. So it's the pitching coach's fault, because the pitcher struggles to throw the ball in the strike zone, then when he finally does, he throws it down the middle?
We lost Thursday because our pitching gave up hits that scored the scored the run. (It was earned so you can't blame it on lack of defense.)
See...it's an easy game to play.
Oh...I got ya! You consider a pitching staff that gives up ONE run in a game...A failure? Every pitching coach in the country would laugh at you. We lost because we couldn't score, which has been the biggest problem all year.
Batgirl...Keep on preaching to these dumbasses. Odds are...We will change the entire coaching staff and end up a lot worse off with respect to pitching. Remember what I told you!
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We lost the series, because we scored "ZERO" runs on Thursday night. So it's the pitching coach's fault, because the pitcher struggles to throw the ball in the strike zone, then when he finally does, he throws it down the middle?
We lost Thursday because our pitching gave up hits that scored the scored the run. (It was earned so you can't blame it on lack of defense.)
See...it's an easy game to play.
Oh...I got ya! You consider a pitching staff that gives up ONE run in a game...A failure? Every pitching coach in the country would laugh at you. We lost because we couldn't score, which has been the biggest problem all year.
Batgirl...Keep on preaching to these dumbasses. Odds are...We will change the entire coaching staff and end up a lot worse off with respect to pitching. Remember what I told you!
Like I said...People LIE...Statistics don't. It's insanity, to claim that a pitching coach needs to be replaced, because the pitchers failed in a few games...especially when the pitching staffs numbers are at the top of the league. Pitchers fail in MLB too. Should they get cut or the pitching coach fired?
USCBatgirl21
Well-Known Member
Well if "worse off" means our bullpen stops blowing leads, we stop overusing the same 5-6 arms to the point of injury (see Johnson and Schmidt), we use our ENTIRE staff of arms, we actually demand our pitchers throw strikes and stop this nibbling to try to get hitters to chase, and we utilize situational pitching which helped us win 2 trophies, well then damn, I guess I'll just have to suffer through it.
USCBatgirl21
Well-Known Member
The problem with watching our staff over the years is more often than not it's as Vin Scully once said about the Dodgers' pitching rotation..."You have Kershaw and Greinke. Then it's hold onto your hats."
USCBatgirl21Well-Known Member
NewWell if "worse off" means our bullpen stops blowing leads, we stop overusing the same 5-6 arms to the point of injury (see Johnson and Schmidt), we use our ENTIRE staff of arms, we actually demand our pitchers throw strikes and stop this nibbling to try to get hitters to chase, and we utilize situational pitching which helped us win 2 trophies, well then damn, I guess I'll just have to suffer through it.
You think if we get a new coaching staff, the pitching staff won't blow leads late? Where did you get that notion...Fantasyland? Every pitching staff in the country blows leads.
Well...Did you hold on to your hat? They must have come through a lot for you, if we have so many wins.
NewWell if "worse off" means our bullpen stops blowing leads, we stop overusing the same 5-6 arms to the point of injury (see Johnson and Schmidt), we use our ENTIRE staff of arms, we actually demand our pitchers throw strikes and stop this nibbling to try to get hitters to chase, and we utilize situational pitching which helped us win 2 trophies, well then damn, I guess I'll just have to suffer through it.
You think if we get a new coaching staff, the pitching staff won't blow leads late? Where did you get that notion...Fantasyland? Every pitching staff in the country blows leads.
Well...Did you hold on to your hat? They must have come through a lot for you, if we have so many wins.
Someone hasn't heard of the old adage "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics" - Benjamin Disraeli.
uscbirds...question for you. The opener against UF, we lost 1-0. You state our pitching staff only gave up ONE run, yet got beat because our hitters couldn't get us any. You do realize that the UF staff was the top staff in the SEC don't you. Perhaps we didn't hit because of the top pitching that UF has also. You want to blame our hitters, but give credit to our pitchers, yet don't seem to think other teams pitching is pretty damn good also.
raycock2001Well-Known Member
Newuscbirds...question for you. The opener against UF, we lost 1-0. You state our pitching staff only gave up ONE run, yet got beat because our hitters couldn't get us any. You do realize that the UF staff was the top staff in the SEC don't you. Perhaps we didn't hit because of the top pitching that UF has also. You want to blame our hitters, but give credit to our pitchers, yet don't seem to think other teams pitching is pretty damn good also.
Raycock...Thanks for your fine response. NO...I certainly wasn't trying to say that the Gators don't have excellent pitching. They are right there with Carolina, just behind Ole Miss in staff efficiency. I was simply saying...We did not score! Florida scored 3 runs total...Thursday and Friday combined. They scored 6 runs in 24 innings. That's an F***ing success in anybody's book...except Batgirl and her ilk. She is basically talking about one inning over a weekend and wants to blame the coach over ONE inning. I realize that we blew some other saves earlier in the year (when Johnson was out), because the rest of our pitchers are not closers.
Newuscbirds...question for you. The opener against UF, we lost 1-0. You state our pitching staff only gave up ONE run, yet got beat because our hitters couldn't get us any. You do realize that the UF staff was the top staff in the SEC don't you. Perhaps we didn't hit because of the top pitching that UF has also. You want to blame our hitters, but give credit to our pitchers, yet don't seem to think other teams pitching is pretty damn good also.
Raycock...Thanks for your fine response. NO...I certainly wasn't trying to say that the Gators don't have excellent pitching. They are right there with Carolina, just behind Ole Miss in staff efficiency. I was simply saying...We did not score! Florida scored 3 runs total...Thursday and Friday combined. They scored 6 runs in 24 innings. That's an F***ing success in anybody's book...except Batgirl and her ilk. She is basically talking about one inning over a weekend and wants to blame the coach over ONE inning. I realize that we blew some other saves earlier in the year (when Johnson was out), because the rest of our pitchers are not closers.
USCBatgirl21
Well-Known Member
For the last time, you can't ignore the multiple problems with the pitching staff, and the coaching thereof that we've been dealing with for years, simply because the stats tell you otherwise. What you're doing is no different than bragging about winning the TOP battle on the gridiron when you lose the ballgame.
Not sure the issue is the 3 w/e starters or Johnson....other than perhaps the number of pitches we sometimes make them go. They are very reliable. It's the remainder of the bullpen that is less so.
We also don't use all the arms that are available to us. If you look at our roster and the pitchers we use, there is a pretty significant difference. If you incorporate situational pitching, you could expect to use a lot more of those arms....not for an extended period, but for an out or two. Using that philosophy may help those other than our starters and closer become more reliable and may cut down on the number of pitches our starters and closer are expected to throw. Just think if Johnson was available in Game Three against UF because he didn't have to throw so many pitches closing out Game Two....we may have had the sweep. That is the issue.
USCBatgirl21Well-Known Member
NewFor the last time, you can't ignore the multiple problems with the pitching staff, and the coaching thereof that we've been dealing with for years, simply because the stats tell you otherwise. What you're doing is no different than bragging about winning the TOP battle on the gridiron when you lose the ballgame.
For the last time...There are NOT multiple problems with the pitching staff. I'm not emotionally involved in the situation, like you seem to be. The Carolina pitching staffs, under JM's leadership, have been at the top of the Conference standings over fourteen years. Pitching and defense have been staples of the Carolina program. We can't say the same thing about the offense. This whole discussion is basically useless, because If Holbrook stays, so will Meyers. If Holbrook goes, so will the rest of the staff.
NewFor the last time, you can't ignore the multiple problems with the pitching staff, and the coaching thereof that we've been dealing with for years, simply because the stats tell you otherwise. What you're doing is no different than bragging about winning the TOP battle on the gridiron when you lose the ballgame.
For the last time...There are NOT multiple problems with the pitching staff. I'm not emotionally involved in the situation, like you seem to be. The Carolina pitching staffs, under JM's leadership, have been at the top of the Conference standings over fourteen years. Pitching and defense have been staples of the Carolina program. We can't say the same thing about the offense. This whole discussion is basically useless, because If Holbrook stays, so will Meyers. If Holbrook goes, so will the rest of the staff.
