MBB losing again
- Thread starter Cybercock
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You're correct. LOL!!! Boy !, 'I'm not a pumper, in the least but, C'mon, Paris saw an opportunity, jumped on it, and let's see what he can do. ......... C'mon, YOU ARE RIGHT!!! But, since he's OURS .... let's give 'em a break & a chance.
I was at the REAL CAROLINA (here) when UNcarolina burned Dean Smith, in effigy.
Imagine, if you will, a team that finishes the year with 1 SEC win and that win is at Rupp.
It could happen.
It could happen.
My problem is I don’t really see anyone getting better. We only lost by 20 at home against a previously winless in conference team….I guess that’s better than the 40 point beat downs.
But we will check back in 2025-2026. I’ll give the man the benefit of the doubt. Didn’t love the hire but it’s his job to put something in the cupboard. This year is a complete dud. We were predicted to finish last. We will finish last or next to it.
But we will check back in 2025-2026. I’ll give the man the benefit of the doubt. Didn’t love the hire but it’s his job to put something in the cupboard. This year is a complete dud. We were predicted to finish last. We will finish last or next to it.
Assuming we made the right hire, it may be '24-'25 season before we start seeing a better team. After Frank got terminated, just about the entire team transferred. So whenever you see our team getting smoked, be sure to say a little thanks to Frank for likely encouraging everyone to leave just to stick it to USC for firing him.
Lamont put together a team of spare parts from the portal, mostly from non power 5 talent + GG Jackson. Probably not going to be many wins left this season and next year when GG is gone is probably going to be just as bad.
Lamont put together a team of spare parts from the portal, mostly from non power 5 talent + GG Jackson. Probably not going to be many wins left this season and next year when GG is gone is probably going to be just as bad.
Maybe GG will stay, He may be that kind of person. We all are hoping for more, And I do see improvement. this coach needs at least 3 years to prove what he can do.
Paris will get plenty of time, especially with the program starting over from scratch. I dont know if it would benefit GG Jackson to stay or not. People say he would be a lottery pick which could be ~$9 mil/year for the top pick or as low as $1.8 mil at the bottom of the first round. I dont think hes going to get enough NIL to make it worth staying although as Ive said in another thread, Id personally want to stay in college as long as possible with all the fine babes and no responsibilities.
The team looks incredibly UNCOACHED. Backyard ball is our base offense.
Yea, it's a shame, but we'll never see any dividends from GG. He's got an NBA future that is coming along fast that won't allow USC any time to build around him. Paris gets a pass for this season, because as you mention, he cobbled together a team from nothing. But next year had better have some promising freshman that can serve as the foundation of the program, and some veteran transfers that serve a specific purpose in his system, not just fill scholarships. (Again, he had to get players to field a team this year - next year should have at least a semblance of building a program.)
I'm just curious with him building from the transfer portal, what does his recruiting skills look like? The team I saw last night looked more like a DII or DIII team
Sorry, this team could be running Pete Carrill's Princeton Offense and still couldn't get to 60 points. We have bigs that won't even look at the basket. Pump-faking, getting open for a dunk and passing it out for a contested 3 (SMDH). We just have too many guys that just can't play. The only difference between some of them and the average student out there is 6-8 inches of height. We have two 6'0" guards. Yes, Chico Carter is not 6'3". One is wildly inconsistent. The other can't create his own shot. Poor GG. We have a 17 year old kid out there, trying to figure it out and we need him to play like Kevin Durant to be competitive. It's easy to lay this on coaching, but no, this is personnel.
We don’t always agree on much but I do know we just don’t have the talent. We have one talented kid surrounded by a bunch of parts. Now I don’t think I see much in our coaching to suggest this is getting better. Improvement is improvement and you have to concede that. And it’s hard to find that. Yeah we beat Kentucky and Clemson. Any team is going to jump up and play over their heads or poorly 2-3 times a year. But who is consistently getting better, either individually or the team? That is on the coaching.
I’ll concede Paris got off to a late start. I’ll concede it’s year one. I’m willing to give him time. But what have you seen through this that really gives you hope for 2025 or 2026? He lacks talent but eventually it’s his job to recruit it and develop it.
Now I have to disagree here about kicking more dirt on Frank. Coaching changes happen all the time. Of course kids make decisions based on who the coach is. Why do you expect kids to sit here and be loyal to this new coach and this new dumpster fire?
Stevenson last year was better than a lot of what we play this year. Bryant was ok but his athleticism is better than most of what we start. Devin Carter was a huge blow and had more talent than anyone outside of GG. The saddest part is GG likely would have came whether it was Frank or LaMont and adding GG to that cast and we likely would have been solid.
Blame Frank if you want to, but those guys had a choice and they were not going to come play for a new coach and when the fans and administration demanded change they got it.
I know you wanted the ncaa tournament more. I know you were tired of NITs and fades in March. But Frank did win as much as anyone here. He had a promising team coming back and fans and admin inexplicably demanded a tear down. This is what some fans and admin wanted. This is what they got. You made the bed. Now get ready for 2025-2026 to find out if this was worth it or not. Harsh but true.
I do not like to criticize the kids, but this is a huge problem along with lack of rebounding in which Coach Paris discussed last night. Hoping to find another Chris Silva in the portal. Also lack consistent drives to the basket in which Couisnard and Carter could do at times last season. Right now the only two that has any confidence in attempting to drive to the rim is Brown and Meechie. I will say Carter Jr. has been a good surprise this season.
I think South Carolina has two in place right now with Davis and Hankins-Sanford that will be the face of South Carolina Basketball in the next few years and just have to built off of those two. South Carolina does have a four star commitment Collin Murray Boyles that can help impact the team in the next few years.
I respect the fact you’re not bashing kids online but being positive about the ones that do. When you’re getting beat by 40 multiple times it’s fair game to question effort. Truthfully these games would have been worse if teams didn’t call off the dogs. We have very few players that bring consistency in effort and production. That’s true of most losing teams. I don’t love being bad but at least bust your ass for those that still care to watch. Those people are getting smaller by the game.
Coach Paris said that he liked the energy from last evening game, but said the same thing that Coach Martin would say time from time and that is how much time are the players putting in the gym when the team is not practicing. He said that you have to put your own time in the gym to improve yourself.
I mean he did flip GG Jackson from UNC, but I think there was already some groundwork laid previously by Frank. I wont think we will see until next recruiting class.
I respectfully disagree.
Frank spent the entire offseason talking on social media about how he was wrongfully terminated. And as a long time fan of SC athletics Ive seen a lot of coaching turnover but Ive never seen a roster disappear like the mens team after Frank was let go. He always had a thin skin with rabbit ears and had no issue with acting like an unprofessional child in a public setting... It doesnt take much detective work to connect the dots that Frank advised everyone to leave to spite the school who he believed wronged him.
As far as why Frank was fired, I believe it it was justified and a change had to be made. He went to one NCAA tournament and one NIT in 10 years. Thats not acceptable anywhere. And as far as what this team would have been this year, based on Franks track record it would have been another 16-18 win year to finish in the middle of the conference and miss a post season tournament. Frank would have had a team good enough to win more than 20, but he would have mismanaged at least a few games at the end like he did every single year. Watching the dude scream and curse at his kids instead of working on a play in late game time outs when the game is on the line, that shit gets old and EVERYONE has had seen enough to know it was time to move on.
I liked listening to Frank do media, he talked the talk and clearly the players loved him. I appreciate the team that made that run in the NCAA tournament and it was a lot of fun while it was happening, but that doesn't excuse 8 other years of total ineptitude. That was clearly a fluke and not the rule with Frank Martin's program and it was time to give someone else a shot to try to do better.
The comments on here about Frank Martin highlights the real issues.
We too often play the waiting game. Then we make excuses to justify waiting too long. If next season is anywhere close to this one changes have to be made. The portal should be the place to make it happen. We should expect big improvement next season.
We too often play the waiting game. Then we make excuses to justify waiting too long. If next season is anywhere close to this one changes have to be made. The portal should be the place to make it happen. We should expect big improvement next season.
I’m real about this and you have some valid points. I sat right behind the bench at a game where he lost his stuff because an assistant put the worst defender on the best player. He got upset but let it play out. We lost a game we should have won. I’ve seen that.
However comparing the roster turnover and saying Frank encouraged others to leave might be taking it a bit far. We have had worse roster turnover. Remember Darrin Horn? It’s also not fair to Frank to assume that any team the first three years after the Horn disaster would have made any tournament. We were so bad we could have lost to intramural teams when Frank arrived.
Whether fans want to admit it or not, regular NCAA tournament appearances are unlikely. Fogler fought with McGee over it and he wasn’t wrong. Felton had some good teams but they struggled to make the tournament. Newton and Horn were disaster hires. Martin will go down in history as the second winningest coach in Gamecock history and the coach that brought us further than anyone else. It will be extremely hard for anyone to match his success. Even Frank McGuire had limited tournament success despite having some great teams.
Reality is the SEC has started to care about basketball. A larger conference with more money invested in basketball make an already difficult task even more difficult. Ironically it was probably our final four run that inspired more SEC programs to pump money into basketball. This won’t get easier when Oklahoma and Texas hop on the schedule.
I dont think anyone would disagree with you that Frank did take over a program in bad need of a rebuild and that he did elevate things here. But I guess what sticks out to me that most was that he hit a ceiling here because of his style. He could take less highly recruited kids and turn them into SEC level players if they bought in, however for every kid that would do that, there were 3 that would transfer out.
The aspect of Frank's philosophy that did allow our program to have success was also our biggest liability with recruits: playing tough defense. Frank seemed perfectly happy to win games in the 60s, however today's players want to play in wide open offensive schemes. It doesnt feel like Frank was willing to evolve and it has held the program back.
And you are right, we have not historically sustained success in basketball but if you dont change your expectations things here will never get better. There are plenty of non traditional power programs that are seeing sustained success because they were willing to put up with the short term discomfort to reach the goals. This year and next year are going to not be a lot of fun from a wins/losses perspective but I think the women's team is a good indication of how quickly and completely our fanbase will support a winning basketball team. Even in Frank's time here, we did pack out the arena and it was rowdy to the point that guys like John Calipari have said that its a tough place to be a visiting team. The problem is if you are disappointing the fans every.single.year then the optimism and enthusiasm gets lost to where it can't be recovered while having the appearance of lack of change in the program... and I think thats where the program was at the end of Frank's time here.
The aspect of Frank's philosophy that did allow our program to have success was also our biggest liability with recruits: playing tough defense. Frank seemed perfectly happy to win games in the 60s, however today's players want to play in wide open offensive schemes. It doesnt feel like Frank was willing to evolve and it has held the program back.
And you are right, we have not historically sustained success in basketball but if you dont change your expectations things here will never get better. There are plenty of non traditional power programs that are seeing sustained success because they were willing to put up with the short term discomfort to reach the goals. This year and next year are going to not be a lot of fun from a wins/losses perspective but I think the women's team is a good indication of how quickly and completely our fanbase will support a winning basketball team. Even in Frank's time here, we did pack out the arena and it was rowdy to the point that guys like John Calipari have said that its a tough place to be a visiting team. The problem is if you are disappointing the fans every.single.year then the optimism and enthusiasm gets lost to where it can't be recovered while having the appearance of lack of change in the program... and I think thats where the program was at the end of Frank's time here.
You're absolutely right too. No talent plus no coaching equals multiple home loses of 40+ points. It's just one big fustercluck at this point.
If GG is going to be a lottery pick than he should go. I def don't see him being a lottery pick though, he has been pretty bad in SEC play. He needs another year to mature and develop his game.
GG is not aggressive enough to be a lottery pick. He should come back for one more season. Work out with the pros but take this time to grown in to his body. He should have fun and enjoy College
and college time. The money will come. He has the chance to be special here.
and college time. The money will come. He has the chance to be special here.
I have mad respect for you. Even though I obviously wanted Frank to stay I think this is a well articulated post. I really can’t deny any of your points.
I guess my sticking point is it felt like we were really close to having a good run set up for this year and decided to tear it down. I think about Devin Carter, GG, Keyshawn, Leveque and a couple of guys coming off the bench and we would have likely had a solid season. Instead we blew it all up and everyone knew this was going to be a bad year and it’s probably going to be a bad 2-3 years. It’s not firing Frank that got me as much of the timing of it.
Prior to SEC play he was considered an almost unanimous lottery pick, but you’re dead on, he’s been horrible in SEC play.
I didn’t realize he had zero points against Tenn. zero?!? For a lottery pick? He’s also shooting 14% from three in SEC play. And his three-point shooting to that point was really good (and answering a question that people thought was missing from his game). There’s still a lot of season left to pick things back up, but hopefully he doesn’t try and force things. If another year will help his cause, then hopefully he’ll take it.
He’s a future NBA’er, but it’s better to be ready to contribute than to try and claw your way out of the G-League because the team that drafted you thinks you need some more seasoning.
In his defense, he is on a team where no one else poses a threat to the opposition. Therefore, they all key on him. Hard for anyone to win a game of 5 on 1.
has to be disheartening to finally playing a good league game putting up 30 points and still losing by 17 at home. Not sure if I want him to keep balling out or save it for a hopeful next year.
GG showed he can do it. Our fate is in his hands
If he returns we will be very good , If not, why did he even come here
If he returns we will be very good , If not, why did he even come here
Very good? We need a whole lot more than just him coming back to be "very good", unfortunately.
I think he came here because he had to do something this year because of the arcane age limit to enter the NBA (which is being phased out). Might as well make some cash (NIL) and work on his game against some good competition.
If he does decide to return - I'll bet he can recruit some transfers to join him. A high-level point guard and post player would love to be around that kind of inside-outside talent.
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