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My 50+ Year History following USC Mens Basketball

permacock70

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Aug 31, 2000
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As a student I entered USC in '66. Needless to say the McGuire years were priceless.
If you can get a copy of "Roundball Culture", well it takes you back to those times of
passion, talent and ACC hatred as nothing else will.

From 1970 going forward I purchased season tickets every year until 2006. That year Renaldo Balkman announced he would not return for his senior year and I decided to not renew my second row tickets.

In the last 12 years I have been to maybe 4 mens games but certainly won't be back until Martin is gone. We should have fired him years ago for his language and treatment of players. He can't recruit SEC caliber players.

Sorry if you disagree. Just wanted to share my thoughts.
 
I started following Carolina while in HS in '71 and started school there in '73. We were out of the ACC then but we still had Alex English, Mike Dunleavy, Brian Winters, and Nate Davis. We still spent the night at the Coliseum for tickets to Marquette, Indiana, and Notre Dame. We finished 22-5 I believe, but there was a feeling we were starting to slow down in BB and sure enough a few years later we did. But man it was a fun time for Carolina BB back then. You have to admit Frank Martin has done something The old legendary Frank never did....take us to the Final Four. I give him big time props for that!
 
The McGuire ACC years were priceless. The post ACC years, not so much.:(

100% agree re: Roundball Culture. Another good read is ACC Basketball: The Story of the Rivalries, Traditions, and Scandals of the First Two Decades of the Atlantic Coast Conference by J. Samuel Walker. The latter is far more available and affordable.
 
I started following Carolina while in HS in '71 and started school there in '73. We were out of the ACC then but we still had Alex English, Mike Dunleavy, Brian Winters, and Nate Davis. We still spent the night at the Coliseum for tickets to Marquette, Indiana, and Notre Dame. We finished 22-5 I believe, but there was a feeling we were starting to slow down in BB and sure enough a few years later we did. But man it was a fun time for Carolina BB back then. You have to admit Frank Martin has done something The old legendary Frank never did....take us to the Final Four. I give him big time props for that!
I'll bet that McGuire would have taken us to the final four had we stayed in the ACC.
 
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The McGuire ACC years were priceless. The post ACC years, not so much.:(

100% agree re: Roundball Culture. Another good read is ACC Basketball: The Story of the Rivalries, Traditions, and Scandals of the First Two Decades of the Atlantic Coast Conference by J. Samuel Walker. The latter is far more available and affordable.

Agree with this 100%. Interestingly enough, the author of "Roundball Culture", Dan Klores, is the producer of ESPN's "Basketball: A Love Story"
- the 20 hour documentary which has drawn rave reviews.

Klores is a USC grad.

The Walker book is a treasure chest of background info for those interested in USC's ACC days and ultimately, it's parting with the conference in 1971. Meticulously researched and well-written.
 
I started following Carolina while in HS in '71 and started school there in '73. We were out of the ACC then but we still had Alex English, Mike Dunleavy, Brian Winters, and Nate Davis. We still spent the night at the Coliseum for tickets to Marquette, Indiana, and Notre Dame. We finished 22-5 I believe, but there was a feeling we were starting to slow down in BB and sure enough a few years later we did. But man it was a fun time for Carolina BB back then. You have to admit Frank Martin has done something The old legendary Frank never did....take us to the Final Four. I give him big time props for that!
Leaving the ACC killed basketball, no doubt about it. People who never got to attend those games against Tobacco Road and Maryland will never know what they missed.
 
The Walker book is a treasure chest of background info for those interested in USC's ACC days and ultimately, it's parting with the conference in 1971. Meticulously researched and well-written.

Walker's research also describes the environment which led to the ACC's founding - how USC, Clemron, & Maryland joined forces with strange bedfellows Tobacco Road to start the league. He also goes into the 7 charter members inviting UVA to join (which, of course, they did in late 1953) and Charlottesville's consideration of the invitation.

Trivia from the book: The first hoops contest played under ACC auspices took place in early December 1953 at the old USC Field House between Carolina and Maryland, both of whom are no longer in the league.
 
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Back in the day, you could write to the Athletic Dept. and request autographed photos. For Christmas in 1972 (I believe), my parents got me an autographed photo of John Roche in his #10 jersey. I framed it and kept it on my desk for years. When he returned to Columbia in 2007, I pulled the framed photo back out and went to the store in Columbia where he was appearing and got him to autograph the same photo again. He was amazed that someone still had the black and white photo! Those were definitely the good days of men's basketball! The memories of that era of basketball are a treasure.
 
I started following Carolina while in HS in '71 and started school there in '73. We were out of the ACC then but we still had Alex English, Mike Dunleavy, Brian Winters, and Nate Davis. We still spent the night at the Coliseum for tickets to Marquette, Indiana, and Notre Dame. We finished 22-5 I believe, but there was a feeling we were starting to slow down in BB and sure enough a few years later we did. But man it was a fun time for Carolina BB back then. You have to admit Frank Martin has done something The old legendary Frank never did....take us to the Final Four. I give him big time props for that!
I believe back then there wasn't a huge field of 64 we missed the tournament when we lost to NC State in the ACC tournament or something like that. In today's world we would have gotten in, that Frank had a different set of selection rules that sucked.
 
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Back in the day, you could write to the Athletic Dept. and request autographed photos. For Christmas in 1972 (I believe), my parents got me an autographed photo of John Roche in his #10 jersey. I framed it and kept it on my desk for years. When he returned to Columbia in 2007, I pulled the framed photo back out and went to the store in Columbia where he was appearing and got him to autograph the same photo again. He was amazed that someone still had the black and white photo! Those were definitely the good days of men's basketball! The memories of that era of basketball are a treasure.
You may have a pic from his freshman season; Roche was #11.

https://www.si.com/vault/1971/01/04/554210/the-toughest-kid-on-anybodys-block
 
I believe back then there wasn't a huge field of 64 we missed the tournament when we lost to NC State in the ACC tournament or something like that. In today's world we would have gotten in, that Frank had a different set of selection rules that sucked.
I think the entire field back then was 16 teams - four regionals with four teams each. The year we lost to N.C State, the East Regional started in Columbia the next week - and we weren't in it.

Another thing, not every conference had tournaments and the ACC NCAA bid went to the tournament champion. The year I'm talking about above, we went 14-0 in the conference regular season.
 
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Frank is definitely losing my support and I've only missed about a dozen home MBB games in the last 37 seasons. I understand coaches sometimes have to yell at their players, but he takes it to a different level.
 
I think the entire field back then was 16 teams - four regionals with four teams each. The year we lost to N.C State, the East Regional started in Columbia the next week - and we weren't in it.

Another thing, not every conference had tournaments and the ACC NCAA bid went to the tournament champion. The year I'm talking about above, we went 14-0 in the conference regular season.
I think it was 1971 John Roache was playing on a bad ankle and Lee somebody stole the ball near the end. Broke my heart in 1000 pieces.
 
I think the entire field back then was 16 teams - four regionals with four teams each. The year we lost to N.C State, the East Regional started in Columbia the next week - and we weren't in it.

Another thing, not every conference had tournaments and the ACC NCAA bid went to the tournament champion. The year I'm talking about above, we went 14-0 in the conference regular season.
i

My memory of that time is that there were something between 16 and 24 teams in the tourney. Each conference sent its representative. Only the ACC and SoCon had tournaments and sent the tournament champion. There was a first round to bring the number down to sixteen for the regionals. The conferences with the best cumulative record in the NCAA's got a first-round bye and went straight to the regionals. In those days the NIT was all in Madison Square Garden and it was no insult to be there.
 
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i

My memory of that time is that there were something between 16 and 24 teams in the tourney. Each conference sent its representative. Only the ACC and SoCon had tournaments and sent the tournament champion. There was a first round to bring the number down to sixteen for the regionals. The conferences with the best cumulative record in the NCAA's got a first-round bye and went straight to the regionals. In those days the NIT was all in Madison Square Garden and it was no insult to be there.
24 sounds right, but some of those had to play-in in the week before the regionals. Big conferences were in .
 
Was a student in 65 when McGuire's teams played in the Fieldhouse. For me these were the most exciting times in Gamecock sports. Those great rivalries with the Tobacco Road teams died when we left the ACC. The atmosphere in that Fieldhouse was sensational because of the noise and closeness to the action on the court.
 
I think it was 1971 John Roache was playing on a bad ankle and Lee somebody stole the ball near the end. Broke my heart in 1000 pieces.
Yes. A lazy pass from Bobby Cremins and he was just waiting for it. Bobby lost that game. Heartbreaking. Mc and USC might have won it all that year. It still bothers me after all these years.:)
I was watching game on tv. Was also watching the '71 game with my beautiful wife beside me on couch. I jumped as high as Joyce and I'm 5' 8" when Owens scored. Was so mad at ACC and their treatment of USC that I was glad to get out of ACC but, of course, like everyone I can now see what a mistake it was.
 
Regarding McGuire, I remember going into Mathias sandwich shop on St Andrews road in Irmo with my family years ago as a kid. We sat down and my dad started pointing to an older guy there reading the newspaper. My dad was acting starstruck and kept saying "that's Frank McGuire, that's Frank McGuire". They ended up having a nice conversation and my Dad got his autograph.
 
Regarding McGuire, I remember going into Mathias sandwich shop on St Andrews road in Irmo with my family years ago as a kid. We sat down and my dad started pointing to an older guy there reading the newspaper. My dad was acting starstruck and kept saying "that's Frank McGuire, that's Frank McGuire". They ended up having a nice conversation and my Dad got his autograph.
McGuire lived just down the road from Mathias shop in Whitehall.
 
The McGuire ACC years were priceless. The post ACC years, not so much.:(

100% agree re: Roundball Culture. Another good read is ACC Basketball: The Story of the Rivalries, Traditions, and Scandals of the First Two Decades of the Atlantic Coast Conference by J. Samuel Walker. The latter is far more available and affordable.
When Buck Freeman died, the decline began.:(:(:(
 
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Most coaching careers follow the trajectory of assistant to head man. Buck Freeman’s story flipped the script.

Freeman played at St. John’s from 1923-’27, averaging 7.4 points per game in those slow-paced days of center jumps after every made basket.

Freeman was immediately named coach of his alma mater upon his graduation. The game had taken root in New York City, and St. John’s had mined the best talent.

Freeman molded his best players —Mac Kinsbrunner, Matty Bogovich, Allie Schuckman, Max Posnak and Rip Gerson — into “The Wonder Five,” one of the great teams of basketball’s early era.

The Redmen went 88-8 in Freeman’s first four seasons on the job. The St. John’s teams under Freeman are often credited with bringing ball movement, the give-and-go and switching on defense to prominence.

McGuire was recruited by Freeman and averaged 5.4 points per game in three seasons. It was during their time together that St. John’s met Westminister (Pa.) on Dec. 29, 1934, part of the first regular-season college doubleheader at Madison Square Garden and a watershed event in the sport’s evolution.

Freeman was a confirmed bachelor, a night owl and a hard drinker. His battle with alcohol cost him the job at St. John’s, despite a 177-31 record in 10 seasons. Joe Lapchick replaced him.

Freeman became a basketball vagabond. He was head coach for two stints at the University of Scranton (going 12-9 in 1937-’38 and 16-36 from 1947-’48). Sandwiched between that was an assistant’s gig with the legendary Clair Bee at Long Island University.

During the summers, Freeman built his reputation as a first-rate basketball mind by working at camps and clinics in New York City.

McGuire eventually became coach himself at St John’s and, understandably, couldn’t bring his mentor back to that touchy situation. But when McGuire took the University of North Carolina job in 1952, he hired a clean-and-sober Freeman as the only assistant.

McGuire is often credited with creating an “underground railroad” that delivered talent from New York City to Chapel Hill. New York talent scout Java Gotkin, who often steered recruits toward the Tar Heels, was a former player for Freeman at St. John’s.

Some of those New York recruits — including Lennie Rosenbluth, Tommy Kearns, Pete Brennan and Joe Quigg — formed the nucleus of UNC’s undefeated national champions in 1957.

Freeman was obsessed with the game, often walking the streets of Chapel Hill deep into the night while devising strategies. According to Adam Lucas’ “The Best Game Ever,” Freeman even slept in a tiny apartment attached to Woollen Gym, where the Tar Heels played at the time.

The relentless drive to a title frayed Freeman’s nerves. After the season, Freeman retired due to “health concerns” —most likely a relapse with the bottle. That led McGuire to hire an eager assistant from Air Force named Dean Smith.

Freeman must have eventually cleaned up because McGuire hired him again after becoming coach at South Carolina in 1964.

The “underground railroad” moved farther south, and eventually New Yorkers like Jack Thompson, John Roche, Tom Owens, Tom Riker, Brian Winters, Mike Dunleavy and Bobby Cremins were playing for the Gamecocks.

Freeman retired after 10 seasons as an assistant at South Carolina, where he had been in poor health for the last few seasons. He didn’t last long without the game, dying at 69 on Feb. 16, 1974.

McGuire was always gracious in his praise of Buck Freeman. The head coach never hesitated to call Freeman “the best assistant in the business.” After Freeman died, McGuire said his mentor-turned-assistant was “a coach’s coach, one of the great basketball coaches of all time.”
 

Only ACC tournament game I have ever attended. We drove up that morning and then stayed in Greensboro that night.
Dean Smith was out on the court actually crying.. Our players and fans were going crazy. Several of the the local cops working the game were very rude to USC fans. Sweet Justice at last! Holy cow...47 years ago.
 
Most coaching careers follow the trajectory of assistant to head man. Buck Freeman’s story flipped the script.

Freeman played at St. John’s from 1923-’27, averaging 7.4 points per game in those slow-paced days of center jumps after every made basket.

Freeman was immediately named coach of his alma mater upon his graduation. The game had taken root in New York City, and St. John’s had mined the best talent.

Freeman molded his best players —Mac Kinsbrunner, Matty Bogovich, Allie Schuckman, Max Posnak and Rip Gerson — into “The Wonder Five,” one of the great teams of basketball’s early era.

The Redmen went 88-8 in Freeman’s first four seasons on the job. The St. John’s teams under Freeman are often credited with bringing ball movement, the give-and-go and switching on defense to prominence.

McGuire was recruited by Freeman and averaged 5.4 points per game in three seasons. It was during their time together that St. John’s met Westminister (Pa.) on Dec. 29, 1934, part of the first regular-season college doubleheader at Madison Square Garden and a watershed event in the sport’s evolution.

Freeman was a confirmed bachelor, a night owl and a hard drinker. His battle with alcohol cost him the job at St. John’s, despite a 177-31 record in 10 seasons. Joe Lapchick replaced him.

Freeman became a basketball vagabond. He was head coach for two stints at the University of Scranton (going 12-9 in 1937-’38 and 16-36 from 1947-’48). Sandwiched between that was an assistant’s gig with the legendary Clair Bee at Long Island University.

During the summers, Freeman built his reputation as a first-rate basketball mind by working at camps and clinics in New York City.

McGuire eventually became coach himself at St John’s and, understandably, couldn’t bring his mentor back to that touchy situation. But when McGuire took the University of North Carolina job in 1952, he hired a clean-and-sober Freeman as the only assistant.

McGuire is often credited with creating an “underground railroad” that delivered talent from New York City to Chapel Hill. New York talent scout Java Gotkin, who often steered recruits toward the Tar Heels, was a former player for Freeman at St. John’s.

Some of those New York recruits — including Lennie Rosenbluth, Tommy Kearns, Pete Brennan and Joe Quigg — formed the nucleus of UNC’s undefeated national champions in 1957.

Freeman was obsessed with the game, often walking the streets of Chapel Hill deep into the night while devising strategies. According to Adam Lucas’ “The Best Game Ever,” Freeman even slept in a tiny apartment attached to Woollen Gym, where the Tar Heels played at the time.

The relentless drive to a title frayed Freeman’s nerves. After the season, Freeman retired due to “health concerns” —most likely a relapse with the bottle. That led McGuire to hire an eager assistant from Air Force named Dean Smith.

Freeman must have eventually cleaned up because McGuire hired him again after becoming coach at South Carolina in 1964.

The “underground railroad” moved farther south, and eventually New Yorkers like Jack Thompson, John Roche, Tom Owens, Tom Riker, Brian Winters, Mike Dunleavy and Bobby Cremins were playing for the Gamecocks.

Freeman retired after 10 seasons as an assistant at South Carolina, where he had been in poor health for the last few seasons. He didn’t last long without the game, dying at 69 on Feb. 16, 1974.

McGuire was always gracious in his praise of Buck Freeman. The head coach never hesitated to call Freeman “the best assistant in the business.” After Freeman died, McGuire said his mentor-turned-assistant was “a coach’s coach, one of the great basketball coaches of all time.”
nicely done....
it was also said that Buck did the coaching for Mc...now any Nate Davis tales? :eek:
 
On the last play of that fateful 1971 championship game, there are many who believe that 6'3" Kevin Joyce stepped on the foot of 6'10" Lee Dedmon for the jump ball that Owens grabbed to score the winning layup.
 
nicely done....
it was also said that Buck did the coaching for Mc...now any Nate Davis tales? :eek:
Was really impressed with Davis. He might have been able to outump Joyce. Still remember him skying and making a hook shot.
 
I'll bet that McGuire would have taken us to the final four had we stayed in the ACC.

Maybe, but Martin did it it in just a few years. I loved McGuire, but he was winding down in those last years here.
 
Maybe, but Martin did it it in just a few years. I loved McGuire, but he was winding down in those last years here.
He wasn't winding down until after the ACC was yanked out from under him, and that development affected succession, recruiting, the brand, national profile - everything. It was like having a cancer patient in the house: you're hoping this could be the miracle case, but in your heart of hearts, you know it's only a matter of time before the undertaker is coming through your door.
 
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I'll bet that McGuire would have taken us to the final four had we stayed in the ACC.

Maybe, but Martin did it it in just a few years. I loved McGuire, but he was winding down in those last years here.

He wasn't winding down until after the ACC was yanked out from under him, and that development affected succession, recruiting, the brand, national profile - everything. It was like having a cancer patient in the house: you're hoping this could be the miracle case, but in your heart of hearts, you know it's only a matter of time before the undertaker is coming through your door.

The ACC wasn't quite yanked out from under him. He was an initial supporter of secession (though I doubt he would have initiated it on his own), thinking that the program was on solid enough ground. Within a couple of years, he realized that such was not the case. I wonder if it would have made any difference if we had continued to play all of our old ACC rivals with some degree of regularity after we left. Please note that UVA's visit to Columbia on December 19 will mark the first time men's hoops will play the Cavs in a regular season game (non-tournament) in Columbia since we left the ACC!

Had we stayed in the ACC and did not have the internal strife between McGuire and Dietzel (and later Carlen), my guess is that Frank I would have turned the reigns over to Don Walsh. in the mid-to-late 70s. Walsh saw what was happening, and left.

Sadly, it's beginning to look to me like our recent run to the final four was a fluke.
 
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