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Name, Image and Likeness (NIL): Charles Barkley just expressed the same concerns I have had from word "Go" concerning NIL.

Carolina Doc

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If this country needs professional college football players, then so be it. But there also needs to be an avenue for college students to participate in the sport as an amateur. I'm thinking on some level between current college football and intramural. I know there would be plenty of students who would love to do that.

Additionally, if they intend to start paying players and allowing them to earn incomes from their NIL, then colleges can do away with the scholarships and room/board. Players can pay for their own tuition like every other student, if that is what they wish to do. It can work both ways.
 
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paladin181

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Your asking the question in that fashion is insulting to athletes and totally ignorant of how systems work!! It is equivalent to asking why do women ask to be raped? Or why did slaves asked to enslaved?
This is a terrible false equivalency. The point he made is not without merit. These students volunteer repeatedly year after year and then some complain of financial abuse. Why volunteer if you know there is abuse? If people are getting stabbed walking into a particular house, you can be certain you'll never catch me walking through the door. For the sake of this discussion, we are assuming the NCAA (and by proxy, its member institutions) is doing everything wrong that is claimed. Why, then would someone walk through the door to play sports for this terrible organization?
 

paladin181

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If this country needs professional college football players, then so be it. But there also needs to be an avenue for college students to participate in the sport as an amateur. I'm thinking on some level between current college football and intramural. I know there would be plenty of students who would love to do that.

Additionally, if they intend to start paying players and allowing them to earn incomes from their NIL, then colleges can do away with the scholarships and room/board. Players can pay for their own tuition like every other student, if that is what they wish to do. It can work both ways.
This was my thought. Have two different categories. Let players opt in to receive NIL money at the cost of a scholarship, or opt out to receive the scholarship. That covers everyone. But then people will complain that they want to eat their cake and have it too. Then you have amateur athletes and non-amateur on the same team, and students will REALLY have to be sure their likeness will pay off before accepting the terms. Some will make significantly more than their school loans, and others will be happy to get that scholarship.
 

ToddFlanders

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After thinking more about it, I'm really not seeing the issue as it relates to the OP (players being jealous of each other). The NIL bills just open a door of opportunity for guys that achieve a level of fame or success - even if just local fame. They'll be able to get a few hundred bucks for an autograph signing while they play instead of making them wait until they're out of eligibility. Guys like Trevor Lawrence will get some huge deals, and even the all-conference guys (and fan favorites) will get a taste. And even if more and more money starts flowing in, it will be from outside sources, not the schools.

NIL is really a great compromise and everything can be above board. And who knows, maybe they'll be able to work in some small payments to all the players if they start using their NIL in college football video games again. I know all the NFL players love getting their Madden checks - even if it's not for a ton of money.
 

winloseortie

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Feb 21, 2007
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This is a terrible false equivalency. The point he made is not without merit. These students volunteer repeatedly year after year and then some complain of financial abuse. Why volunteer if you know there is abuse? If people are getting stabbed walking into a particular house, you can be certain you'll never catch me walking through the door. For the sake of this discussion, we are assuming the NCAA (and by proxy, its member institutions) is doing everything wrong that is claimed. Why, then would someone walk through the door to play sports for this terrible organization?
Good questions.
you act like student athletes haven’t been fighting legally for expanded rights in the courts for the last 25 years. NCAA is only game in town. They discard their work force every four years. The economic portion of NCAA is a rigged game. Who makes all the rules? Who has their pockets lined with money? Follow the money!!! In spite of all this I love college sports.
But to protect this myth that “amateur” athletics are amateur or pure is willful blindness. It is a commodity/product and college athletes do not have a seat at the table to decide the larger questions.

Does that mean student athletes don’t benefit? Of course not!!! But for what they produce and how much they work, they are underpaid.

The NCAA then tells you and me, Athletes are the problem, they are ruining the sport with their greed. Never mind that we make a billion dollars annually from just B-ball tourney.
 

ToddFlanders

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Mar 30, 2007
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Good questions.
you act like student athletes haven’t been fighting legally for expanded rights in the courts for the last 25 years. NCAA is only game in town. They discard their work force every four years. The economic portion of NCAA is a rigged game. Who makes all the rules? Who has their pockets lined with money? Follow the money!!! In spite of all this I love college sports.
But to protect this myth that “amateur” athletics are amateur or pure is willful blindness. It is a commodity/product and college athletes do not have a seat at the table to decide the larger questions.

Does that mean student athletes don’t benefit? Of course not!!! But for what they produce and how much they work, they are underpaid.

The NCAA then tells you and me, Athletes are the problem, they are ruining the sport with their greed. Never mind that we make a billion dollars annually from just B-ball tourney.

Are they underpaid? They are receiving a lot of value from the school on multiple levels. I've said it before, but once you take away the NFL/NBA age restriction - all these issues become moot. Then kids that can play professionally will be able to - those that can't make it can stay in college to get better.

But back to compensation - if you're just talking about the value of scholarships they receive (the kids are compensated very well for the the amount they bring in) - that doesn't take into account room, board, insurance, pell grants (basically every kid gets $5k for nothing), etc.

But let's say they don't care about a degree - what's in it for those kids? Well, how much do you think it would cost a football player to foot the bill for their own training for three years while they wait out the NFL rules? Room, board, personalized weight training, sports performance professionals, nutritionists, the best sports medicine professionals when they get hurt, personal position coaches, training table, live games with other players (because you aren't getting better without playing) - the list of expenses keeps going. And you're talking about over $100,000 a year per kid that they aren't shelling out because they get it all for playing in 12-13 games a year.
 

paladin181

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Good questions.
you act like student athletes haven’t been fighting legally for expanded rights in the courts for the last 25 years. NCAA is only game in town. They discard their work force every four years. The economic portion of NCAA is a rigged game. Who makes all the rules? Who has their pockets lined with money? Follow the money!!! In spite of all this I love college sports.
But to protect this myth that “amateur” athletics are amateur or pure is willful blindness. It is a commodity/product and college athletes do not have a seat at the table to decide the larger questions.

Does that mean student athletes don’t benefit? Of course not!!! But for what they produce and how much they work, they are underpaid.

The NCAA then tells you and me, Athletes are the problem, they are ruining the sport with their greed. Never mind that we make a billion dollars annually from just B-ball tourney.
You still aren't answering the question. I already stated virtually everything you did. I said let's assume all the student athletes' stances are 100% correct. Why then would they choose to participate in such a broken system unless there was already significant benefit to them? You made a lot of statements, and I don't think any of them adequately answered the question. Let's look at my example again. People going into a certain house are being stabbed. Why then would you choose to walk through that door, and then complain you were stabbed?
 

Silver_Coconut

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Feb 12, 2020
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Are they underpaid? They are receiving a lot of value from the school on multiple levels. I've said it before, but once you take away the NFL/NBA age restriction - all these issues become moot. Then kids that can play professionally will be able to - those that can't make it can stay in college to get better.

But back to compensation - if you're just talking about the value of scholarships they receive (the kids are compensated very well for the the amount they bring in) - that doesn't take into account room, board, insurance, pell grants (basically every kid gets $5k for nothing), etc.

But let's say they don't care about a degree - what's in it for those kids? Well, how much do you think it would cost a football player to foot the bill for their own training for three years while they wait out the NFL rules? Room, board, personalized weight training, sports performance professionals, nutritionists, the best sports medicine professionals when they get hurt, personal position coaches, training table, live games with other players (because you aren't getting better without playing) - the list of expenses keeps going. And you're talking about over $100,000 a year per kid that they aren't shelling out because they get it all for playing in 12-13 games a year.
Not only this, which it’s all true. Most students acquire some sort of internship during college that THEY pay for the opportunity. Football players have the luxury of having their internship in a multi billion dollar industry.
 

atl-cock

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May 3, 2006
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Atlanta (Beaufort native)
If this country needs professional college football players, then so be it. But there also needs to be an avenue for college students to participate in the sport as an amateur. I'm thinking on some level between current college football and intramural. I know there would be plenty of students who would love to do that.

Additionally, if they intend to start paying players and allowing them to earn incomes from their NIL, then colleges can do away with the scholarships and room/board. Players can pay for their own tuition like every other student, if that is what they wish to do. It can work both ways.
I believe that Club teams are the avenue you are addressing. Players have to pay for everything, including equipment, uniforms, etc.

The two sports that I know of at USC which have club teams (wouldn't be surprised if there's more, e.g., baseball, basketball) are ice hocket and rugby.
 

atl-cock

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May 3, 2006
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Good questions.
you act like student athletes haven’t been fighting legally for expanded rights in the courts for the last 25 years. NCAA is only game in town. They discard their work force every four years. The economic portion of NCAA is a rigged game. Who makes all the rules? Who has their pockets lined with money? Follow the money!!! In spite of all this I love college sports.
But to protect this myth that “amateur” athletics are amateur or pure is willful blindness. It is a commodity/product and college athletes do not have a seat at the table to decide the larger questions.

Does that mean student athletes don’t benefit? Of course not!!! But for what they produce and how much they work, they are underpaid.

The NCAA then tells you and me, Athletes are the problem, they are ruining the sport with their greed. Never mind that we make a billion dollars annually from just B-ball tourney.
Regarding high-level, "minor league" competition, then yes, the NCAA is the only game in town

But there are other avenues for those who truly are "amateurs" - NCAA D-II, D-III, and the NAIA. An the Club teams I mentioned in a previous post.
 

tngamecock#

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Sep 10, 2000
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Y’all so funny! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
NCAA and the colleges been financially messing over athletes for decades. But now that they have fought to get a taste, they are suddenly the problem because they might cause dissension in the locker room. SMH

Tell the kids with 80k student loan debt the athletes have been getting messed over. What's OOS tuition/room/board now as SC.....47K per year? Playing ball or any sport is tough, and they deserve all they can get. But right now, even the worst scholarship player on any team earns more than a great percentage of Americans.

This is going to be interesting how it plays out, but I think the least of the worries will be how an O lineman feels about his QB or RB getting accolades. It's been that way for years...........QBs/WR/RBs are household names. OL....not so much but they do the grunt work.
 

atl-cock

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May 3, 2006
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Not only this, which it’s all true. Most students acquire some sort of internship during college that THEY pay for the opportunity. Football players have the luxury of having their internship in a multi billion dollar industry.
I recall a story about Devin Taylor taking an IT class where part of the work was to ensure that the press box at W-B was fully, properly networked for a game w/ Mizzou. I loved the concept.
 

atl-cock

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May 3, 2006
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Tell the kids with 80k student loan debt the athletes have been getting messed over. What's OOS tuition/room/board now as SC.....47K per year? Playing ball or any sport is tough, and they deserve all they can get. But right now, even the worst scholarship player on any team earns more than a great percentage of Americans.

This is going to be interesting how it plays out, but I think the least of the worries will be how an O lineman feels about his QB or RB getting accolades. It's been that way for years...........QBs/WR/RBs are household names. OL....not so much but they do the grunt work.
Exactly! And the smart QB, if he wants continued "protection,." will acknowledge that he couldn't do it without the linemen, even though the linemen know that they won't get nearly the accolades as the QB will.
 

uscmustwin

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Oct 28, 1998
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Meanwhile, on the ground right now.....

This is moving fast. Now it becomes a rush to see who can develop a proposal that is fair and enforceable. I don't equate those two terms with either the NCAA or individual state sponsored bills. And, we all know how federal mandates would be a mess.

Meanwhile, Mullen at Florida is actively using NIL to sell his program; a large number of SEC teams are ahead of the curve in their states on a critical college football issue, California sets the standard but handcuffs those whom it applies to by delaying its use.