No matter how you think of the NFL today, it will never be the same from years to come when watching

[HI Cock]

WOW !!! Best post I've ever seen on this issue !! You nailed everything . So according to some people those guys who are in the beer line or in the Bathroom, or playing on their phones during the anthem should all be held to the same standard correct ?? Great post .

No. I'm saying it's one thing to be on the field and peacefully protesting by kneeling - to make a point - and being totally obtuse and not even recognizing that the anthem is playing because you're wrapped up in your own world. Which one is more disrespectful? To me it's more disrespectful to be so obtuse and out of touch. And in truth, that is a bigger problem in America than some rich guys trying to raise awareness of social injustice based on their race.

Would you have been so outraged if Tom Brady, Jerry Jones, Steve Spurrier took a knee to protest Obama's presidency?

 

[titaniumspur]

Only if you read my post in the most superficial manner. I'm trying to point out that many people on the "you must stand!" side of the argument are avowed, devoted Christians. Yet they don't consider what their Christ actually stood for.

Not only is the demand that all people stand for the anthem against the 1st Amendment's right to free speech and peaceful protest, it flies in the face of the belief in the one person who gave his life in the name of social injustice.

Some folks can see that deeply, others either can't or won't.

Stop twisting the Bible. If you think Jesus "gave his life in the name of injustice" you need to read your Bible.

 

[HI Cock]

Stop twisting the Bible. If you think Jesus "gave his life in the name of injustice" you need to read your Bible.

My apologies. The way I've studied it has Jesus being killed by the Romans, the dominant power structure of the time. I've understood it that they wanted Jesus dead because he was a dangerous rebel who had gathered quite a large following among the poor and other disaffected Jewish-Roman citizens (primarily by performing miracles) who had been marginalized in the race to be "good Romans" in Israel. His message was that everyone was equal in the eyes of God - another dangerous message in Roman society at the time. That's why he was killed. Standing up for what is right. I also understand that others interpret it differently, but you can't change the history of what happened.

 

[bushmastercock]

Only if you read my post in the most superficial manner. I'm trying to point out that many people on the "you must stand!" side of the argument are avowed, devoted Christians. Yet they don't consider what their Christ actually stood for.

Not only is the demand that all people stand for the anthem against the 1st Amendment's right to free speech and peaceful protest, it flies in the face of the belief in the one person who gave his life in the name of social injustice.

Some folks can see that deeply, others either can't or won't.

Superficial? Do you know what superficial means? Dude you used Jesus as an example of what kapernick is doing. Atleast on the surface you did. Were you serious or just trying to raise eyebrows?

 

[titaniumspur]

My apologies. The way I've studied it has Jesus being killed by the Romans, the dominant power structure of the time. I've understood it that they wanted Jesus dead because he was a dangerous rebel who had gathered quite a large following among the poor and other disaffected Jewish-Roman citizens (primarily by performing miracles) who had been marginalized in the race to be "good Romans" in Israel. His message was that everyone was equal in the eyes of God - another dangerous message in Roman society at the time. That's why he was killed. Standing up for what is right. I also understand that others interpret it differently, but you can't change the history of what happened.

You are the one trying to change history. Pilate, the Roman ruler and judge, said, "....what evil hath He done ?"

 

[king ward]

No. I'm saying it's one thing to be on the field and peacefully protesting by kneeling - to make a point - and being totally obtuse and not even recognizing that the anthem is playing because you're wrapped up in your own world. Which one is more disrespectful? To me it's more disrespectful to be so obtuse and out of touch. And in truth, that is a bigger problem in America than some rich guys trying to raise awareness of social injustice based on their race.

Would you have been so outraged if Tom Brady, Jerry Jones, Steve Spurrier took a knee to protest Obama's presidency?

I myself would have been. I would maintain that another way could be found to send the message.

 

[world famous 3rd base hecklers]

My brother just told me that Miami players took a knee today.

If Ray Tanner allows this to happen in Columbia, it will go over like a turd in the punch bowl at the Sunday Social.

I'll be done with them until changes are made and I'm a lifelong Gamecock.

Any player pulling that crap in college should lose a scholarship.

I looked online and didn't see a report about it...

 

[cocky4]

There was one person - about 2000 years ago - who was willing to do unpopular things to bring attention to social injustice. Interestingly it was in the context of an extremely wealthy empire that "worshipped" things like money and social standing rather than worshipping love for all humanity. Hopefully more and more people will be able to draw parallels to the times we live in today.

It's alarming to me that people who consider themselves good Christians would not see - or even try to see - where their savior would come down on this issue. CK and other protesters are certainly no second coming, but they are taking a peaceful stand against what is very commonly overlooked in this country.

Fortunately cooler heads are prevailing in the NFL and they are now talking about social injustice and inequality - which is the whole point of the original protest.

He certainly would not come down on the side of people that want anarchy...criminal behavior unchecked. I also doubt he would focus on a miniscule problem within the society and ignore the real problem that was killing thousands of his people.

Turn your back on criminals and this problem can be addressed.

 

[cocky4]

My brother just told me that Miami players took a knee today.

If Ray Tanner allows this to happen in Columbia, it will go over like a turd in the punch bowl at the Sunday Social.

I'll be done with them until changes are made and I'm a lifelong Gamecock.

Any player pulling that crap in college should lose a scholarship.

Nobody cares enough to watch Miami to begin with. It makes sense that Miami would be the school to pull this.

 

[cocky4]

Have you seen some of the QB play this season? I'm not going to say he is all-world but I'd feel more comfortable with him playing QB on my team than about 1/3 of the guys starting in the league right now. How can guys like Hoyer and Weeden get jobs in the NFL? How does Cutler continue to get these huge contracts to stink up the field?

Lets for the sake of argument agree that all that is true.......the NFL is also business. No business is going to last long if it has employees that decide to offend a large majority of the people that support that business.

Once again we all have rights...the players, owners and fans. CK and other players have exercised their right....now others are exercising theirs. See....I don't get why some believe that only the players have rights here....that they are the only ones allowed to speak or protest. Sorry to tell them that has never been the situation.

 

[GridironGunslinger]

The First Amendment only limits the governments ability to suppress speech. Oliver Wendell Holmes stated in 1891 "an employee has a constitutional right to talk politics, but he has no constitutional right to be employed." To keep your job, you often can't say what you like. There is no First Amendment free speech right at your place of employment. If your employer does not like what you say or who you associate with on or off the job they can fire you. Kaepernick was an employee of an NFL team. That team had the right to fire him and they also had the right to keep him employed. If your employer has no problem with you participating in Klan rallies on the weekend you keep your job. However if your employer has a problem with it you can be fired.

There are extremist on the left and on the right. My uncle gave his life for the USA fighting Nazis during WWII, and my brother in law gave his life for the USA fighting communist in Vietnam. Nazism and Communism are ideologies that are in the sewer of human history. I do not understand why anyone would identify with either. The Nazis are horrible dregs of humanity, but in reality the Communist are worse. Over 300 million people have lost their lives at the hand of communism. The Nazis were defeated in WWII. These left wing communist like Antifa, BLM, and BAMN are still active with the goal of destroying our country and way of life. They are the useful idiot puppets of the enemies of our country.

This NFL taking a knee during the Anthem protest is just one page out of the manual that those who wish to fundamentally change the United States of America are using to cause the change they desire. Those who say they have the right to do so as free speech are the ones who show up at events of those they disagree with and prevent their free speech by shouting them down and with the use of violence. For example shouting down and threatening conservative speakers. Showing up at a conservative assembly dressed in black with weapons to cause disruption. They are the ones infringing on legitimate free speech!

These NFL protest are wrong because it is total disrespect of our country. Standing during the National Anthem is fundamental to the fabric of who we are as a people and a nation. It is ingrained into us from the time we begin school. Just like someone said earlier in this thread, if you think there is injustice, for example police brutality, go assemble and peacefully protest at city hall. That is your right! During the national anthem at any event not just an NFL game is not the appropriate place to protest. It's all about respect!

Proudly NFL free for six weeks!

Out

 

[Garnet chicken]

The First Amendment only limits the governments ability to suppress speech. Oliver Wendell Holmes stated in 1891 "an employee has a constitutional right to talk politics, but he has no constitutional right to be employed." To keep your job, you often can't say what you like. There is no First Amendment free speech right at your place of employment. If your employer does not like what you say or who you associate with on or off the job they can fire you. Kaepernick was an employee of an NFL team. That team had the right to fire him and they also had the right to keep him employed. If your employer has no problem with you participating in Klan rallies on the weekend you keep your job. However if your employer has a problem with it you can be fired.

There are extremist on the left and on the right. My uncle gave his life for the USA fighting Nazis during WWII, and my brother in law gave his life for the USA fighting communist in Vietnam. Nazism and Communism are ideologies that are in the sewer of human history. I do not understand why anyone would identify with either. The Nazis are horrible dregs of humanity, but in reality the Communist are worse. Over 300 million people have lost their lives at the hand of communism. The Nazis were defeated in WWII. These left wing communist like Antifa, BLM, and BAMN are still active with the goal of destroying our country and way of life. They are the useful idiot puppets of the enemies of our country.

This NFL taking a knee during the Anthem protest is just one page out of the manual that those who wish to fundamentally change the United States of America are using to cause the change they desire. Those who say they have the right to do so as free speech are the ones who show up at events of those they disagree with and prevent their free speech by shouting them down and with the use of violence. For example shouting down and threatening conservative speakers. Showing up at a conservative assembly dressed in black with weapons to cause disruption. They are the ones infringing on legitimate free speech!

These NFL protest are wrong because it is total disrespect of our country. Standing during the National Anthem is fundamental to the fabric of who we are as a people and a nation. It is ingrained into us from the time we begin school. Just like someone said earlier in this thread, if you think there is injustice, for example police brutality, go assemble and peacefully protest at city hall. That is your right! During the national anthem at any event not just an NFL game is not the appropriate place to protest. It's all about respect!

Proudly NFL free for six weeks!

Out

Well said and explains the whole situation if someone takes the time to read it. For some reason the left is never happy unless making other people unhappy!

 

[Jpcooper]

Nobody cares enough to watch Miami to begin with. It makes sense that Miami would be the school to pull this.

Anthem not played when players are out of the locker room

 

[HI Cock]

He certainly would not come down on the side of people that want anarchy...criminal behavior unchecked. I also doubt he would focus on a miniscule problem within the society and ignore the real problem that was killing thousands of his people.

Turn your back on criminals and this problem can be addressed.

I'm pretty sure none of the people taking a knee are promoting anarchy or proposing that criminal behavior goes unchecked. They're not asking for police to turn away. They're asking for America to take a closer look at what's going on in minority communities. If you are proposing that there is no social injustice in America - especially with respect to hispanics and blacks in particular - then I can certainly understand your perspective.

 

[HI Cock]

These NFL protest are wrong because it is total disrespect of our country. Standing during the National Anthem is fundamental to the fabric of who we are as a people and a nation. It is ingrained into us from the time we begin school. Just like someone said earlier in this thread, if you think there is injustice, for example police brutality, go assemble and peacefully protest at city hall. That is your right! During the national anthem at any event not just an NFL game is not the appropriate place to protest. It's all about respect!

Proudly NFL free for six weeks!

Out

I'm not a fan of kneeling for the anthem, but I'm not sure how it is fundamental to who we are as a country since it didn't become even the semi-official anthem of the U.S. until 1916. It wasn't official until 1931 by an act of Congress, in a post-war world marked by another rising (and destructive) tide of nationalism.

The Constitution, however, out dates the anthem by 40 years and was official for 129 years before we had a national anthem. In 19th century America, such displays of nationalism simply didn't happen and were never required. Being faithful to the ideas in the Constitution were the true test of American-ism for longer than the anthem has been playing.

 

[cocky4]

I'm pretty sure none of the people taking a knee are promoting anarchy or proposing that criminal behavior goes unchecked. They're not asking for police to turn away. They're asking for America to take a closer look at what's going on in minority communities. If you are proposing that there is no social injustice in America - especially with respect to hispanics and blacks in particular - then I can certainly understand your perspective.

I get that there is racism but is hardly confined to one group...nor is it the dominating factor by any stretch of the imagination in the plight of those communities. There is a lot that needs to be done but most of the real constructive change has to come within the mindset with the people of those communities.

Businesses will not build...if crime is rampant.
Crime will be rampant as long as the community tolerates crime being committed.
Crime will be tolerated as long as the perspective that cops are out to get them is promoted.

I agree that there is a lot to be done....what I argue is what needs to be done and I definitely do not believe we should continue to pay much attention to the voices that helped create the situation as it is now.

Certainly when crime is rampant..the answer is more scrutiny on the police...certainly that is true. Certainly it is true that the problems is lack of attention or effort even though it has been a front and center issue for many years.

One question.....how much voice is given to core issues by those that could bring attention to them versus the voice given to blame outside forces that though they may exist..really have little responsibility for the current situation?

Blame is a drug....never works for the people that buy into it as the reason for their failures.

 

[Freddie.B.Cocky]

It has been noted that you are attempting to equate people protesting police brutality with people WHO ADMIRE AND SUPPORT ADOLPH HITLER.

I don't view it as anything close to equating people

Only if you read my post in the most superficial manner. I'm trying to point out that many people on the "you must stand!" side of the argument are avowed, devoted Christians. Yet they don't consider what their Christ actually stood for.

Not only is the demand that all people stand for the anthem against the 1st Amendment's right to free speech and peaceful protest, it flies in the face of the belief in the one person who gave his life in the name of social injustice.

Some folks can see that deeply, others either can't or won't.

Two things here:
1. The players are in their workplace in a football game. No one gets to do what they want in their workplace, First Amendment Right or not. I remember an incident many years ago when I started to work at my place of employment for 40 years. A hourly employee stood up in the cafeteria and started talking about this religious revival he had been attending and quoted something the minister had said and further asked all employees to take heed. Quite honestly I can't remember what the message was. But anyway as soon as he stood up and started talking a HR manager got up and stood right beside. The HR manager let him finish talking but as soon as he finished talking he was walked to the office. The employee was not fired, we all thought he was going to be fired but he wasn't. I can assure everyone he was given a "warning write-up" of some sort.

The point here being the employee's First Amendment Rights did not apply in this case.

2. The players, team owners, vendors, etc. customers are the fans. The majority of the fans strongly disapprove of kneeling for the Anthem. So who is right here?

Now I personally have never been an NFL fan, except when Miami when undefeated in ' 72 it was fun following the Dolphins that year, so the NFL isn't losing a dime on me. But, if this disrespectful display of the American Flag and Anthem continuous on into next year I am willing to bet it will start costing the NFL.

 

[Freddie.B.Cocky]

I myself would have been. I would maintain that another way could be found to send the message.

It is not the players First Amendment Rights to protest in their work environment is my contention or at least it wasn't right for me to protest at my workplace.

 

[pecock1]

kapernick is a bum and he has only himself to blame for stepping away from his 14 million contract. A complete buffoonn

 

[GridironGunslinger]

I'm not a fan of kneeling for the anthem, but I'm not sure how it is fundamental to who we are as a country since it didn't become even the semi-official anthem of the U.S. until 1916. It wasn't official until 1931 by an act of Congress, in a post-war world marked by another rising (and destructive) tide of nationalism.

The Constitution, however, out dates the anthem by 40 years and was official for 129 years before we had a national anthem. In 19th century America, such displays of nationalism simply didn't happen and were never required. Being faithful to the ideas in the Constitution were the true test of American-ism for longer than the anthem has been playing.

It is interesting that those with leftist views wish to remove monuments to events that occurred during the 19th century, but claim the National Anthem is insignificant because it was not the official anthem until 1931.Typical left wing tactics to get what they want. Anyway the anthem has been an important part of the fabric of our nation my entire lifetime and deserves the respect of standing. It doesn't matter if you are a left wing commie or not you should show respect and stand during the anthem.

 

[king ward]

It is not the players First Amendment Rights to protest in their work environment is my contention or at least it wasn't right for me to protest at my workplace.

My workplace had the same policy concerning discrete political advocacy.

 

[DC-99]

I don't view it as anything close to equating people


Two things here:
1. The players are in their workplace in a football game. No one gets to do what they want in their workplace, First Amendment Right or not.

People are free to do whatever they want in their workplace, and as long as their employer allows it, there will be no repercussion. Who the **** do you think you are to tell a company what they can and can't do? If you don't like it, don't support it. But for Gods sakes, quit whining about it.

 

[FORKCOCK]

kapernick is a bum and he has only himself to blame for stepping away from his 14 million contract. A complete buffoonn

A hero to left wing liberals.

 

[RockThrillCock]

I don't have a don't have a strong opinion on the protest one way or another . I personally would never sit or not honor the Anthem but I also have absolutely have Zero problem with players who choose not to . I have tons of friends in the military and to my surprise most most of them actually support CK . They fight so he can have that right . The one thing that I do totally agree with is if KP was putting up Aaron Rodgers numbers , he would have a job on any roster in the NFL . W-L's trumps anything else in the league and he wasn't getting it done . If he was a top 5 QB , he could drown Puppies at halftime and still keep a job .

No way the military supports CK

 

[FWB4294]

I'm just speaking from my experience . I live in a military town and most my friends are active duty and it's overwhelming how many actually support CK. I was a little surprised myself but it's true . I have a few friends ( high ranking officers btw) that are actually boycotting watching NFL until CK gets signed .

 

[FWB4294]

It is not the players First Amendment Rights to protest in their work environment is my contention or at least it wasn't right for me to protest at my workplace.

Bro this this difference ... if you and I protest and get fired our employers probably won't lose a dime and they will replace us the next day without losing a minute of sleep . People don't stop going to Home Depot because a Stocker they liked got fired . The players have all the power because they are the sole reason people buy tickets and drive ratings . If say the owner of the Steelers cut or benched all their star players , the stands would be empty and the owner would be bankrupt. The players and coaches know this. For all the talk of fans boycotting games or not watching there are just as many fans who either agree with CK or don't care that will continue to go to games and spend money . There's a five or six year waiting list to get season tickets for some NFL teams so for every person that quits on the NFL there are thousands that will gladly take their place .

 

[Bigger_Stronger_Faster]

Bro this this difference ... if you and I protest and get fired our employers probably won't lose a dime and they will replace us the next day without losing a minute of sleep . People don't stop going to Home Depot because a Stocker they liked got fired . The players have all the power because they are the sole reason people buy tickets and drive ratings . If say the owner of the Steelers cut or benched all their star players , the stands would be empty and the owner would be bankrupt. The players and coaches know this. For all the talk of fans boycotting games or not watching there are just as many fans who either agree with CK or don't care that will continue to go to games and spend money . There's a five or six year waiting list to get season tickets for some NFL teams so for every person that quits on the NFL there are thousands that will gladly take their place .

1st, I seriously doubt any NFL owner will ever go bankrupt (other than morally, and some are already there!).
But you're exactly right about how the league is dealing with this. They know their viewers are basically split on the issue and this won't hurt them in the long run.
Also, good point on attendance. There will always be fans lining up to take someone's seat if they decide to stop going.

 

[GridironGunslinger]

Bro this this difference ... if you and I protest and get fired our employers probably won't lose a dime and they will replace us the next day without losing a minute of sleep . People don't stop going to Home Depot because a Stocker they liked got fired . The players have all the power because they are the sole reason people buy tickets and drive ratings . If say the owner of the Steelers cut or benched all their star players , the stands would be empty and the owner would be bankrupt. The players and coaches know this. For all the talk of fans boycotting games or not watching there are just as many fans who either agree with CK or don't care that will continue to go to games and spend money . There's a five or six year waiting list to get season tickets for some NFL teams so for every person that quits on the NFL there are thousands that will gladly take their place .

The players may think they have the power and if they are willing to give up their millions and lifestyle to make their point the NFL would take a financial hit and they are out of a job. However, just like fans who are willing to take the seats of those who give up theirs, there are players who will take the positions of the fool players that don't think they can be replaced. These spoiled millionaire NFL players are getting away with doing something the average fan can't do at their place of employment. The people in the stands can't get away with what these NFL players can because they are afraid to speak out because they need their job to pay their mortgages. If your boss doesn't like you, what you say, or who you associate with he can fire you. If fans stay away these NFL players are going to lose their lucrative careers anyway. Unfortunately you are probably right about fans lining up to take the place of those who give up their tickets. Just another example of how screwed up our society is. The majority don't give a damn about anything as long as their lives are comfortable. We as a people have become spoiled and soft. As long as they can still make their tee time at the country club and get back in time to make it to the game they could care less about how screwed up our country has become. When we can no longer live that comfortable lifestyle is when the manure will hit the fan. Those that came before us endured many challenges and hard times to build this country into a great nation. Those of us alive today have no clue what sacrifice and hard times are. Today we are standing by the side allowing this great nation to be destroyed by whining left wingers who think they are victims ,complain about everything, and demand more and more. This whole NFL anthem issue has made me realize how insignificant who wins the Super Bowl is as far as the events in human history. It is pathetic how our society pays someone playing football millions and worships them as if they are some kind of hero. Which team wins today will not change a thing in the world. Those NFL players provide nothing of value to society but entertainment to pass the time of day. To hell with them!

Proudly NFL free for 6 weeks!

 

[cockn'fyr]

The players may think they have the power and if they are willing to give up their millions and lifestyle to make their point the NFL would take a financial hit and they are out of a job. However, just like fans who are willing to take the seats of those who give up theirs, there are players who will take the positions of the fool players that don't think they can be replaced. These spoiled millionaire NFL players are getting away with doing something the average fan can't do at their place of employment. The people in the stands can't get away with what these NFL players can because they are afraid to speak out because they need their job to pay their mortgages. If your boss doesn't like you, what you say, or who you associate with he can fire you. If fans stay away these NFL players are going to lose their lucrative careers anyway. Unfortunately you are probably right about fans lining up to take the place of those who give up their tickets. Just another example of how screwed up our society is. The majority don't give a damn about anything as long as their lives are comfortable. We as a people have become spoiled and soft. As long as they can still make their tee time at the country club and get back in time to make it to the game they could care less about how screwed up our country has become. When we can no longer live that comfortable lifestyle is when the manure will hit the fan. Those that came before us endured many challenges and hard times to build this country into a great nation. Those of us alive today have no clue what sacrifice and hard times are. Today we are standing by the side allowing this great nation to be destroyed by whining left wingers who think they are victims ,complain about everything, and demand more and more. This whole NFL anthem issue has made me realize how insignificant who wins the Super Bowl is as far as the events in human history. It is pathetic how our society pays someone playing football millions and worships them as if they are some kind of hero. Which team wins today will not change a thing in the world. Those NFL players provide nothing of value to society but entertainment to pass the time of day. To hell with them!

Proudly NFL free for 6 weeks!

Truth!

 

[cockn'fyr]

I think what is being lost in all this is the reason it started . CK started the protest to bring awareness to Social injustice and Police Brutality. If you live in this country and you don't see that these two things are happening on a daily basis then you are either dumb or turning a blind eye. If he wore a wristband or something similiar then it would have been a story for a week and would have gone away . Protest is meant to make people uncomfortable so the issue can't be ignored . Unfortunately now the story has nothing to do with the initial issue thanks to the media . If this protest somehow effects change and brings awareness to those issues then I have no problem with it . Again personally I would never kneel for the anthem but that's my right to choose . It's also your right to not match the NFL or buy tickets if you don't agree . However if you think this is hurting the players pockets then you are naive . They're gonna get millions if you choose to watch or not because plenty of people will continue to go to games and buy tickets and gear either way . Trust me Marshawn Lynch isn't selling one of His Lamborghini's to make ends meet because a few thousands people quit watching the NFL .

I doubt my not watching the NFL will make one bit of difference, but if you think we're talking a few thousand people you are sadly mistaken!

 

[cocky4]

Bro this this difference ... if you and I protest and get fired our employers probably won't lose a dime and they will replace us the next day without losing a minute of sleep . People don't stop going to Home Depot because a Stocker they liked got fired . The players have all the power because they are the sole reason people buy tickets and drive ratings . If say the owner of the Steelers cut or benched all their star players , the stands would be empty and the owner would be bankrupt. The players and coaches know this. For all the talk of fans boycotting games or not watching there are just as many fans who either agree with CK or don't care that will continue to go to games and spend money . There's a five or six year waiting list to get season tickets for some NFL teams so for every person that quits on the NFL there are thousands that will gladly take their place .

I think you are going to find out the reality is much different than you perceive it to be. The NFL will go on...but it has been damaged and may never have the appeal that it has enjoyed. Things like ad revenue...things like cable subscriptions...things like willingness of communities to offer tax breaks...those are the real devastating blows that will be coming down the pike.

The NFL will survive most likely....but to say that the protest will not have long term effects that will level major change on the people within the league is a misunderstanding of what is happening. In the minds of the public....this may also have a role in the lawsuits that are coming about CTE. Public support is a major factor in almost everything.

 

[HI Cock]

I don't view it as anything close to equating people


Two things here:
1. The players are in their workplace in a football game. No one gets to do what they want in their workplace, First Amendment Right or not. I remember an incident many years ago when I started to work at my place of employment for 40 years. A hourly employee stood up in the cafeteria and started talking about this religious revival he had been attending and quoted something the minister had said and further asked all employees to take heed. Quite honestly I can't remember what the message was. But anyway as soon as he stood up and started talking a HR manager got up and stood right beside. The HR manager let him finish talking but as soon as he finished talking he was walked to the office. The employee was not fired, we all thought he was going to be fired but he wasn't. I can assure everyone he was given a "warning write-up" of some sort.

The point here being the employee's First Amendment Rights did not apply in this case.

2. The players, team owners, vendors, etc. customers are the fans. The majority of the fans strongly disapprove of kneeling for the Anthem. So whose is right here?

Now I personally have never been an NFL fan, except when Miami when undefeated in ' 72 it was fun following the Dolphins that year, so the NFL isn't losing a dime on me. But, if this disrespectful display of the American Flag and Anthem continuous on into next year I am willing to bet it will start costing the NFL.

I get where you're coming from. Your co-worker could have sued or filed a complaint against the company if he felt strongly enough that his 1st Amendment rights had been violated. Chances are it wouldn't have gone anywhere.

The truth is that companies can make any rules they want for their employees. They could require that all women show up in g-strings. And every citizen has the right to challenge these rules if they violate constitutional rights. It's really something every American should understand. Unions were created for these very reasons. They have sort of filled the void between workers and the courts because that gap is pretty big and it's easier to have someone advocating for you than to challenge the big company on your own.

I have no doubt that the protests will eventually hurt the NFL's bottom line. The protest here does not violate NFL policy, but interestingly if the protests switched to wearing an armband or something like that, it would be against NFL policy.

I find it distasteful in itself. I also know however that there are much larger issues in this country than what people do or don't do during the national anthem. To start with, we have a president that continually issues amateur, immature personal attacks on those he disagrees with and promotes conflict and divisiveness.

 

[HI Cock]

It is interesting that those with leftist views wish to remove monuments to events that occurred during the 19th century, but claim the National Anthem is insignificant because it was not the official anthem until 1931.Typical left wing tactics to get what they want. Anyway the anthem has been an important part of the fabric of our nation my entire lifetime and deserves the respect of standing. It doesn't matter if you are a left wing commie or not you should show respect and stand during the anthem.

You do know that many of said monuments were not constructed during the 19th Century, right? They were constructed in response to integration efforts in the South as a way of "standing proud" on the "heritage" of segregation and racial inequality. It's not erasing history to remove symbols that were constructed for this purpose.

The confederate flag didn't start flying over the SC capitol until 1961, right in the heat of the Civil Rights movement. Has the history of SC been re-written since it has been removed? Should South Carolinians have been required to stand and salute that flag as a sign of respect for the state of South Carolina?

I understand where you're coming from. I find it distasteful when people do not show respect for things that should be respected - like the U.S. flag. I would also encourage you to investigate what the fabric of our country is really about. You might find that the fabric is in the words of the Constitution and the guarantees provided to the citizens of the U.S. The fabric is not about flags or anthems or any particular ideology other than people should be as free as possible to explore their own potential.

 

[Freddie.B.Cocky]

People are free to do whatever they want in their workplace, and as long as their employer allows it, there will be no repercussion. Who the **** do you think you are to tell a company what they can and can't do? If you don't like it, don't support it. But for Gods sakes, quit whining about it.

Yes a company or business can allow an employee to do whatever they wish. But if that offends a large majority of their "customers" is that smart?

 

[Freddie.B.Cocky]

People are free to do whatever they want in their workplace, and as long as their employer allows it, there will be no repercussion. Who the **** do you think you are to tell a company what they can and can't do? If you don't like it, don't support it. But for Gods sakes, quit whining about it.

Well I wonder why the Dallas Cowboys was not allowed to put the names of the slain police officers on their helmets. It is okay for players to disrespect the flag but can't honor fallen police officers? Talk about PC, boy am I glad I voted for Trump. I know Trump is extremely unconventional and does not always act presidential but at least he loves America.

 

[GridironGunslinger]

You do know that many of said monuments were not constructed during the 19th Century, right? They were constructed in response to integration efforts in the South as a way of "standing proud" on the "heritage" of segregation and racial inequality. It's not erasing history to remove symbols that were constructed for this purpose.

The confederate flag didn't start flying over the SC capitol until 1961, right in the heat of the Civil Rights movement. Has the history of SC been re-written since it has been removed? Should South Carolinians have been required to stand and salute that flag as a sign of respect for the state of South Carolina?

I understand where you're coming from. I find it distasteful when people do not show respect for things that should be respected - like the U.S. flag. I would also encourage you to investigate what the fabric of our country is really about. You might find that the fabric is in the words of the Constitution and the guarantees provided to the citizens of the U.S. The fabric is not about flags or anthems or any particular ideology other than people should be as free as possible to explore their own potential.

That may be true to a very small extent. However, many were constructed during the late 19th century to commemorate the memory of great men who fought for their homeland which was the state they were from. There is no need to start a debate on this forum as to what motivated Confederate soldiers to fight. Some were constructed during the 1960's to commemorate the 100th anniversary of the Civil War. There was no greater man than Robert E. Lee and it's a shame that he has been disrespected in the way he has. Anyway, it is not just Confederate monuments that are targeted. How about Columbus, Washington, and Jefferson? Even Lincoln has been targeted. The demand to remove monuments is just another page out of the leftist playbook to destroy and undermine America. It is amazing that fools fall for this and don't understand their motives. It's interesting how Isis is guilty of using the same methods. It is interesting that when the Confederate Soldier monument was toppled in Durham, NC the people who did it were communist. They had their communist banners and shirts on.

The Confederate flag should never have been placed on the Statehouse Dome because only the United States and SC State Flag should ever fly there. As far as the flag on the capitol is concerned it was placed there by Democrat Governor Ernest Hollings to commemorate the 100 year anniversary of the Civil War not to protest civil rights. This was well before the civil rights movement reached its peak in the late 60's. The flag should have been removed at the end of that year, but stayed there until it was finally removed from the dome to the statehouse grounds at the Confederate soldiers monument in July 2000. As we all know it was removed from the grounds as a result of the horrible Charleston shooting in 2015 which the flag had nothing to do with. I'm personally glad that it was finally removed because it was always a target by the left wing liberals who used it to cause division among South Carolinians.

All that being said, I don't have the time to debate you on this forum about any heritage issues. But, if I did have time I would own you like Bama would own your local high school team.

Proudly NFL free for 7 weeks

Out

 

[HI Cock]

That may be true to a very small extent. However, many were constructed during the late 19th century to commemorate the memory of great men who fought for their homeland which was the state they were from. There is no need to start a debate on this forum as to what motivated Confederate soldiers to fight. Some were constructed during the 1960's to commemorate the 100th anniversary of the Civil War. There was no greater man than Robert E. Lee and it's a shame that he has been disrespected in the way he has. Anyway, it is not just Confederate monuments that are targeted. How about Columbus, Washington, and Jefferson? Even Lincoln has been targeted. The demand to remove monuments is just another page out of the leftist playbook to destroy and undermine America. It is amazing that fools fall for this and don't understand their motives. It's interesting how Isis is guilty of using the same methods. It is interesting that when the Confederate Soldier monument was toppled in Durham, NC the people who did it were communist. They had their communist banners and shirts on.

The Confederate flag should never have been placed on the Statehouse Dome because only the United States and SC State Flag should ever fly there. As far as the flag on the capitol is concerned it was placed there by Democrat Governor Ernest Hollings to commemorate the 100 year anniversary of the Civil War not to protest civil rights. This was well before the civil rights movement reached its peak in the late 60's. The flag should have been removed at the end of that year, but stayed there until it was finally removed from the dome to the statehouse grounds at the Confederate soldiers monument in July 2000. As we all know it was removed from the grounds as a result of the horrible Charleston shooting in 2015 which the flag had nothing to do with. I'm personally glad that it was finally removed because it was always a target by the left wing liberals who used it to cause division among South Carolinians.

All that being said, I don't have the time to debate you on this forum about any heritage issues. But, if I did have time I would own you like Bama would own your local high school team.

Proudly NFL free for 7 weeks

Out

Good luck and godspeed, my friend. Go Cocks!

 

[GridironGunslinger]

Good luck and godspeed, my friend. Go Cocks!

Same to you my friend! Go Cocks!

 

[Freddie.B.Cocky]

1st, I seriously doubt any NFL owner will ever go bankrupt (other than morally, and some are already there!).
But you're exactly right about how the league is dealing with this. They know their viewers are basically split on the issue and this won't hurt them in the long run.
Also, good point on attendance. There will always be fans lining up to take someone's seat if they decide to stop going.

I disagree that there are thousands of fans lined up to replace those that may leave. Yes, the Cowboys and Patriots of the world but not many others. Ticket sales are only part of the equation. Viewership which drives advertisers is a big part of the equation, too. And I think viewership will take a hit in the next few years.

 

[DC-99]

Seriously, you want to post this in your liberal attempt to paint all white people as like these guys? For every one of the fringe whacko groups out there that do something that any white or black person knows is wrong, I can show you a police report where a group of black people attacked a white person. You're the problem with our country right now.....you take a story like this and run with it like it represents our nation's culture. For every white racist I've ever met, I'll show you 2 black racists. I got an idea, let's quit focusing on race period, and just deal with people as people.

These nut jobs don't represent me any more than the whacko fringe element of the black lives matter group do. Black Lives Matter is just a catchy name for a racists group. Giving it a fluffy name like that is the ultimate con. It's kind of like calling something "The Clean Air Act"...who could oppose clean air and water right? Except it had nothing to do with either.

"Liberal attempt". Lol. Try again, hoss. I am simply reading the presidents words (exposing the true "problem with our country right now") as they were expressed; "good/fine people" vs "sons of bitches". Your entire post is Trumpian Psycho-babble. Trump didn't have a problem disrepecting our country at every turn during the campaign, "this country is a hellhole". If you and the Cheeto think this country is a hellhole, then gtfo. And take these inbreds with you...

http://pulpitandpen.org/2017/09/25/...ommit-unemployment-fraud-to-increase-tithing/