OT: Boxing Fans - Did you see Wilder / Ortiz tonight?

[PerchedOnRings]

I considered myself a pretty big boxing fan from Ali through the Roy Jones/Shane Mosley years, but lost interest after that. Been hearing the hype about this fight for months & ordered Showtime just to see it. It delivered. It went back & forth, with the American (who was losing on my card) getting a TKO on the Cuban in a late round. For the casual fan who may have lost interest like me, this sets up a possible unification fight for Wilder against the winner of Joshua (Brit) vs Parker (Kiwi) on March 31. Wilder proved he had a chin tonight before laying the lumber.

 

[Brace1]

He’s in trouble against Joshua. The Englishman won’t let him off the hook like Ortiz did tonight. Luis just ran out of gas, but gotta give Deontay credit for hanging in there. Hopefully he continues to improve before he faces AJ.

 

[PerchedOnRings]

He’s in trouble against Joshua. The Englishman won’t let him off the hook like Ortiz did tonight. Luis just ran out of gas, but gotta give Deontay credit for hanging in there. Hopefully he continues to improve before he faces AJ.

Agreed. I think the opponent may always be a better boxer, but if that right lands, whoa Nellie.

 

[kidrobinski]

The mere fact that someone would cite "the Roy Jones/Shane Moseley years" as a boxing watershed marker underscores how boxing began its rapid decline after the decade of the 80s; one was a clown who benefitted from a dearth of boxing talent at the time and the other was a journeyman. And yeah, I lost interest a loooong time ago also, although I understand last night's bout was entertaining.

 

[funktavious]

The mere fact that someone would cite "the Roy Jones/Shane Moseley years" as a boxing watershed marker underscores how boxing began its rapid decline after the decade of the 80s; one was a clown who benefitted from a dearth of boxing talent at the time and the other was a journeyman. And yeah, I lost interest a loooong time ago also, although I understand last night's bout was entertaining.

Roy Jones was far from a clown. In his prime many considered him pound for pound the best boxer in the game. Some say one of the best all time.

 

[PerchedOnRings]

The mere fact that someone would cite "the Roy Jones/Shane Moseley years" as a boxing watershed marker underscores how boxing began its rapid decline after the decade of the 80s; one was a clown who benefitted from a dearth of boxing talent at the time and the other was a journeyman. And yeah, I lost interest a loooong time ago also, although I understand last night's bout was entertaining.

Downvote. I include Mayweather, Pacquiao, de la Hoya, Vargas, Cotto, Mayorga, etc. in that group. It was a fun time for boxing, at least for me and my buddies.

 

[aj&uscgrad]

I watched boxing a lot back in the 80s on CBS Sports Spectacular. The best fight I ever saw was Bazooka Limon against Cornelius Boza Edwards. I can't remember who won but it was back and forth. I also saw the match where 2 men beat each other to death but only one died, Boom Boom Mancini against Doo Koo Kim. Ideally couldn't believe what I was watching

 

[South Cack]

Sugar Ray Leonard was the best ever. From the Olympics to the end of his career he captured the country.

 

[bostonsc]

The big decline had been in the heavyweight division. The other weight classes have kept up in talent and entertainment. What was missing was the talent and brutal punches of the heavyweight division. It didn't help that most of the top heavyweights were not from the US. I've been following Deontay for a while and have been impressed. He has ridiculous power as you saw last night and gives a great interview. If he can win against Joshua or Parker he will become a big time star. It also helps that he is from Alabama so we can start the SEC chant (just kidding).

 

[Brace1]

Sugar Ray Leonard was the best ever. From the Olympics to the end of his career he captured the country.

Definitely top ten but he’s not the best boxer ever.

 

[Brace1]

The mere fact that someone would cite "the Roy Jones/Shane Moseley years" as a boxing watershed marker underscores how boxing began its rapid decline after the decade of the 80s; one was a clown who benefitted from a dearth of boxing talent at the time and the other was a journeyman. And yeah, I lost interest a loooong time ago also, although I understand last night's bout was entertaining.

Roy Jones Jr is far from a clown, he is hands down the most talented boxer to ever step in a ring. He made his opponents look like they were nothing when he faced them, and that includes 8 world champions! He made a huge mistake when he lost all that weight to come back down to fight Antonio Tarver after previously putting on 43 pounds to fight at heavyweight.
He put his body in shock and he never recovered from that. You call Shane Mosley a journeyman well I disagree and most Boxing experts would too. Mosley is easily one of the top 3 lightweight fighters of all time. Some boxing insiders say he’s the best lightweight champion ever, and he had a knockout percentage of 98 while building a 34-0 record before facing Oscar Dela Hoya. Just like Jones Jr, Mosley made a lot of mistakes that derailed his career. But you are way off calling him a journeyman. He was fighter of the year in 1998 and pound for pound best in 2001-2002.

 

[FWB4294]

Just attended Roy’s last fight in PCola a few weeks ago . I think he’s 47 now . Roy is a legend down here in the Panhandle . In his prime Roy was incredible . So unorthodox and when he got people hurt he was a finisher . I always loved Evander . Every fight he had was an absolute war . I think he is one of the most underrated Heavyweights ever . Most of his opponents were much bigger and stronger since he was basically just a blown up welterweight . I think when Evander and Tyson faded the heavyweight division died . Lennox Lewis had his run but his fights were pretty dull . I think that the fact that the Lewis-Bowe fight never materialized hurt the division . The rise of the UFC didn’t help much either . I do think Wilder has a chance to make it special again !!!

 

[Brace1]

Just attended Roy’s last fight in PCola a few weeks ago . I think he’s 47 now . Roy is a legend down here in the Panhandle . In his prime Roy was incredible . So unorthodox and when he got people hurt he was a finisher . I always loved Evander . Every fight he had was an absolute war . I think he is one of the most underrated Heavyweights ever . Most of his opponents were much bigger and stronger since he was basically just a blown up welterweight . I think when Evander and Tyson faded the heavyweight division died . Lennox Lewis had his run but his fights were pretty dull . I think that the fact that the Lewis-Bowe fight never materialized hurt the division . The rise of the UFC didn’t help much either . I do think Wilder has a chance to make it special again !!!

Jones Jr is actually 49 years young now, and I hope he is finished fighting for good! We will always remember his fights, and I agree with you about the decline of the heavyweight division, on account of Tyson and Holyfield fading outta the sport. Lennox Lewis was not that great of a fighter and
Wladimir Klitschko never fought qualify competition. It was not his fault though, it’s just his reign was in a weak Heavyweight Era. I enjoyed the Wilder/Ortiz fight but I don’t believe Wilder is going to bring the division back to prominence. I think he loses to Anthony Joshua and in embarrassing fashion unless he takes Joshua out quick which is possible. Either way I look forward to it and you might be right about Deontay Wilder-he is exciting, even with that wild style.

 

[funktavious]

Jones Jr is actually 49 years young now, and I hope he is finished fighting for good! We will always remember his fights, and I agree with you about the decline of the heavyweight division, on account of Tyson and Holyfield fading outta the sport. Lennox Lewis was not that great of a fighter and
Wladimir Klitschko never fought qualify competition. It was not his fault though, it’s just his reign was in a weak Heavyweight Era. I enjoyed the Wilder/Ortiz fight but I don’t believe Wilder is going to bring the division back to prominence. I think he loses to Anthony Joshua and in embarrassing fashion unless he takes Joshua out quick which is possible. Either way I look forward to it and you might be right about Deontay Wilder-he is exciting, even with that wild style.

The Heavyweight division would have faded a lot sooner had it not been for Mike Tyson. If you look back at the Larry Holmes reign, it was terrible. He had no competition and I think it was for that reason that he stayed undefeated for so long. He beat Ali but Ali shouldn't have still been boxing as he was well past his prime. Holmes eventually lost to Michael Spinks who was absolutely destroyed by Tyson. Tyson for the most part didn't have a lot of competition but the manner in which he finished off his opponents kept people glued to his fights. Had Tyson had better competition earlier in his career then maybe he would have worked a little harder at being the best fighter he could be. Holyfield worked really hard to get to where he was. He went from light heavyweight packing one tons of muscle to become a big heavyweight. He had Lee Haney helping him with weight training and always made me question whether or not he was on steroids. Bowe could have been better but he fizzled out too quickly. Lennox was ok but was fortunate to catch Tyson when Tyson was on his way down. Klitschko was beating Lennox on points and dodged a bullet by having the ref stop the fight because of a cut over Klitschko's eye. I think he retired after that fight knowing that he was going to lose if they fought again.

 

[FWB4294]

The Heavyweight division would have faded a lot sooner had it not been for Mike Tyson. If you look back at the Larry Holmes reign, it was terrible. He had no competition and I think it was for that reason that he stayed undefeated for so long. He beat Ali but Ali shouldn't have still been boxing as he was well past his prime. Holmes eventually lost to Michael Spinks who was absolutely destroyed by Tyson. Tyson for the most part didn't have a lot of competition but the manner in which he finished off his opponents kept people glued to his fights. Had Tyson had better competition earlier in his career then maybe he would have worked a little harder at being the best fighter he could be. Holyfield worked really hard to get to where he was. He went from light heavyweight packing one tons of muscle to become a big heavyweight. He had Lee Haney helping him with weight training and always made me question whether or not he was on steroids. Bowe could have been better but he fizzled out too quickly. Lennox was ok but was fortunate to catch Tyson when Tyson was on his way down. Klitschko was beating Lennox on points and dodged a bullet by having the ref stop the fight because of a cut over Klitschko's eye. I think he retired after that fight knowing that he was going to lose if they fought again.

Totally agree with you . I think what hurt Lewis and Klitschko was they were both big , imposing physically but their styles were not that exciting . Boxing purist can appreciate a big man that control a fight with the Jab and waits and waits for that big over hand finisher . Casual fans who make up the majority want to watch a Tyson maul people or Holyfield fight a knock down drag out war . People forked out pay per view $$ because they knew every Tyson fight would end in a KO and every Holyfield fight would be a brawl . Not many people are intrigued by a 6’5 240 lb guy ( who is built like a gladiator) out point an opponent and go the distance . Lewis and Klitch were amazing technical fighters but that doesn’t sell tickets . Also I think a lull in the heavyweight division also was the golden era of the UFC heavyweight division with Liddell , Coutour, Ortiz etc etc . really hurt boxing . Why shell out 50 bucks to watch Lennox Lewis jab somebody to death for 12 rounds when you can watch Chuck Liddell and Silva beat the hell out of each other for 5 rounds !!! I see the same thing with the UFC now . Because Jon Jones is a knucklehead and all the legends have retired the entire sport is struggling now . The world is begging for a dominant Heavywright Champ in boxing . Guys like Joe Louis , Marciano , Ali , Tyson , really transcend the sport and it’s been a LONG TIME since a fighter could pick up that mantle .

 

[South Cack]

Definitely top ten but he’s not the best boxer ever.

Subjective I suppose.

 

[kidrobinski]

Downvote. I include Mayweather, Pacquiao, de la Hoya, Vargas, Cotto, Mayorga, etc. in that group. It was a fun time for boxing, at least for me and my buddies.

Oh yes, entertaining fighters for sure. Great fighters in terms of history instead of era, no.

If you'll look, the ones that proclaim Roy Jones the greatest pound for pound of all time didn't actually see a whole lot of that "all time", including the kids that write for Ring Magazine now. Just looking at middle and light heavies in THEIR prime, Hagler, Mugabi, Hearns, Saad Muhammed, Qawi, Roy would have been pound for pound knocked out, savagely and quickly.

 

[Brace1]

Subjective I suppose.

I Love Ray Leanord he’s one of my two favorite boxers of all time, and I believe he would have been the best ever if he didn’t have to retire the first time because of that torn retina. He was special and I agree with you, no other fighter has captured the nation like Sugar Ray. He just had an unfortunate situation that changed the trajectory of his career.

 

[Brace1]

Oh yes, entertaining fighters for sure. Great fighters in terms of history instead of era, no.

If you'll look, the ones that proclaim Roy Jones the greatest pound for pound of all time didn't actually see a whole lot of that "all time", including the kids that write for Ring Magazine now. Just looking at middle and light heavies in THEIR prime, Hagler, Mugabi, Hearns, Saad Muhammed, Qawi, Roy would have been pound for pound knocked out, savagely and quickly.

Sorry but I disagree! Marvin Hagler wouldn’t of touched Roy Jones in his prime, John Mugabi would’ve looked like a joke in the ring with Roy. Saad Muhammad never fought a fighter the caliber of Jones Jr. he would’ve got knocked out. Dwight Qawi was a tough fighter with a good resume, and his best win was against Saad Muhammad. Sorry bro he wouldn’t have-been a match for Roy either. Tommy Hearns is a great fighter who I believe would’ve given Roy a tough fight, but I believe his legs would’ve failed him against a prime Roy Jones. I followed all those guys careers and I followed Roy Jones and he is a notch above all them. Only one that could have come close was The hitman Tommy Hearns in his prime. Marvin Hagler became great the latter half of his career and he definitely wasn’t as good as the media built him up to be.

 

[Brace1]

The Heavyweight division would have faded a lot sooner had it not been for Mike Tyson. If you look back at the Larry Holmes reign, it was terrible. He had no competition and I think it was for that reason that he stayed undefeated for so long. He beat Ali but Ali shouldn't have still been boxing as he was well past his prime. Holmes eventually lost to Michael Spinks who was absolutely destroyed by Tyson. Tyson for the most part didn't have a lot of competition but the manner in which he finished off his opponents kept people glued to his fights. Had Tyson had better competition earlier in his career then maybe he would have worked a little harder at being the best fighter he could be. Holyfield worked really hard to get to where he was. He went from light heavyweight packing one tons of muscle to become a big heavyweight. He had Lee Haney helping him with weight training and always made me question whether or not he was on steroids. Bowe could have been better but he fizzled out too quickly. Lennox was ok but was fortunate to catch Tyson when Tyson was on his way down. Klitschko was beating Lennox on points and dodged a bullet by having the ref stop the fight because of a cut over Klitschko's eye. I think he retired after that fight knowing that he was going to lose if they fought again.

The Heavyweight division was good when Larry Holmes was champion. The media made it seem like it wasn’t but, there were a lot of good heavyweights doing that era, and Larry Holmes resume is not that bad. He beat hard hitting Earnie Shavers twice, he beat Ken Norton who beat Ali and broke his Jaw. I know he lost to Micheal Spinks; who he highly underestimated, but that doesn’t mean he wasn’t a great fighter. Micheal Spinks was a great fighter, don’t let the Mike Tyson fight make you believe otherwise. Mike Tyson was a great fighter and should’ve been the best of all time, but he let Don King infiltrate and it was downhill from there. He got rid of Kevin Rooney his last link to you Cus D'Amato. With no Rooney in the picture Tyson was not pushed hard in training. Don King and the rest of his crew thought Tyson could just naturally knock anybody out. So there was no emphasis on training or discipline. Mike Tyson beat some very good fighters early in his career and he would’ve destroyed Holyfield if he would’ve kept his head together and stayed away from King. Lennox Lewis came on the scene when the heavyweight division was trash to be honest with you and Klitschko picked it up after Lennox retired. Vitali was the one that was beating Lewis and he put that cut over his eye, he was the better of the Klitschko Brothers but he was forced to retire because of injury. The buzz is picking up again in the division, but I don’t see it reaching the level of the 60’s 70s, 80’s..

 

[FWB4294]

You gotta t

Sorry but I disagree! Marvin Hagler wouldn’t of touched Roy Jones in his prime, John Mugabi would’ve looked like a joke in the ring with Roy. Saad Muhammad never fought a fighter the caliber of Jones Jr. he would’ve got knocked out. Dwight Qawi was a tough fighter with a good resume, and his best win was against Saad Muhammad. Sorry bro he wouldn’t have-been a match for Roy either. Tommy Hearns is a great fighter who I believe would’ve given Roy a tough fight, but I believe his legs would’ve failed him against a prime Roy Jones. I followed all those guys careers and I followed Roy Jones and he is a notch above all them. Only one that could have come close was The hitman Tommy Hearns in his prime. Marvin Hagler became great the latter half of his career and he definitely wasn’t as good as the media built him up to be.

You gotta throw Duran in that mix as well . When he was in shape and motivated he was as good as anybody . Roy would have driven him insane however . Would be an amazing fight to see . I agree with you that the Hagler , Hearns , Leonard, Duran era was hard to beat . The division was stacked from top to bottom .

 

[FWB4294]

Roy was a bad boy however . One of my buddy’s went to the Roy vs Toney fight and said Roy was in the Casino in Biloxi literally 2 hrs after the fight without a scratch on him . Toney spent two days i the hospital and he was a tough fighter . Dude just went 12 rounds and he’s rolling dice with a girl on each arm at the Gold Nugget 2 hrs later !?!! That’s insane .

 

[Brace1]

You gotta t

You gotta throw Duran in that mix as well . When he was in shape and motivated he was as good as anybody . Roy would have driven him insane however . Would be an amazing fight to see . I agree with you that the Hagler , Hearns , Leonard, Duran era was hard to beat . The division was stacked from top to bottom .

Roberto was a monster and all time great! Would’ve gave Jones fits just because of his will.

 

[Brace1]

Roy was a bad boy however . One of my buddy’s went to the Roy vs Toney fight and said Roy was in the Casino in Biloxi literally 2 hrs after the fight without a scratch on him . Toney spent two days i the hospital and he was a tough fighter . Dude just went 12 rounds and he’s rolling dice with a girl on each arm at the Gold Nugget 2 hrs later !?!! That’s insane .

Unfortunately that was his downfall he would do things like that after fights, and play full games of basketball with his semi pro team before bouts. That was crazy; and it made him lose focus, which cost him in the long run.

 

[FWB4294]

Unfortunately that was his downfall he would do things like that after fights, and play full games of basketball with his semi pro team before bouts. That was crazy; and it made him lose focus, which cost him in the long run.

Yeah you are probably right . He was certainly not 100% commited . He liked to party , play b-ball , at one point he wanted to become a rapper . Of course if I was in my 20s and was a millionaire and champ of the world I would probably do the same . He’s one of those guys that went so far on his god given freakish athletic ability . If he had the work ethic of a Holyfield or Frazier there’s no telling how good he could have been . I don’t think there has ever been a more gifted fighter .

 

[vacock#]

Anyone remember Gillette Friday Night Fights!

link

 

[funktavious]

Roy was a bad boy however . One of my buddy’s went to the Roy vs Toney fight and said Roy was in the Casino in Biloxi literally 2 hrs after the fight without a scratch on him . Toney spent two days i the hospital and he was a tough fighter . Dude just went 12 rounds and he’s rolling dice with a girl on each arm at the Gold Nugget 2 hrs later !?!! That’s insane .

Roy also went a whole round without being hit. Roy had things that could't be trained. His speed and fast twitch response to opponents was unparrallelled to anyone. Half the time it seemed like he was just toying with his opponents. I'll never forget the time he was pummelling his opponent in the corner, took a step back looked at the ref and asked was he going to stop the fight. Then when the ref wouldn't stop the fight he stepped back in and proceeded to knock his opponent out. Not only did he have speed but he had incredible power to go along with it. He was an entertainer in the ring and he knew he was better than the guy across from him.

 

[funktavious]

Totally agree with you . I think what hurt Lewis and Klitschko was they were both big , imposing physically but their styles were not that exciting . Boxing purist can appreciate a big man that control a fight with the Jab and waits and waits for that big over hand finisher . Casual fans who make up the majority want to watch a Tyson maul people or Holyfield fight a knock down drag out war . People forked out pay per view $$ because they knew every Tyson fight would end in a KO and every Holyfield fight would be a brawl . Not many people are intrigued by a 6’5 240 lb guy ( who is built like a gladiator) out point an opponent and go the distance . Lewis and Klitch were amazing technical fighters but that doesn’t sell tickets . Also I think a lull in the heavyweight division also was the golden era of the UFC heavyweight division with Liddell , Coutour, Ortiz etc etc . really hurt boxing . Why shell out 50 bucks to watch Lennox Lewis jab somebody to death for 12 rounds when you can watch Chuck Liddell and Silva beat the hell out of each other for 5 rounds !!! I see the same thing with the UFC now . Because Jon Jones is a knucklehead and all the legends have retired the entire sport is struggling now . The world is begging for a dominant Heavywright Champ in boxing . Guys like Joe Louis , Marciano , Ali , Tyson , really transcend the sport and it’s been a LONG TIME since a fighter could pick up that mantle .

It didn't help that they started demanding huge insurance policies to have boxing matches. It is literally killing the guys starting out. They have nowhere to fight because nobody can afford to pay the insurance premiums.

 

[Brace1]

Yeah you are probably right . He was certainly not 100% commited . He liked to party , play b-ball , at one point he wanted to become a rapper . Of course if I was in my 20s and was a millionaire and champ of the world I would probably do the same . He’s one of those guys that went so far on his god given freakish athletic ability . If he had the work ethic of a Holyfield or Frazier there’s no telling how good he could have been . I don’t think there has ever been a more gifted fighter .

I agree with that!

 

[Brace1]

It didn't help that they started demanding huge insurance policies to have boxing matches. It is literally killing the guys starting out. They have nowhere to fight because nobody can afford to pay the insurance premiums.

That’s awful.

 

[FWB4294]

Roy also went a whole round without being hit. Roy had things that could't be trained. His speed and fast twitch response to opponents was unparrallelled to anyone. Half the time it seemed like he was just toying with his opponents. I'll never forget the time he was pummelling his opponent in the corner, took a step back looked at the ref and asked was he going to stop the fight. Then when the ref wouldn't stop the fight he stepped back in and proceeded to knock his opponent out. Not only did he have speed but he had incredible power to go along with it. He was an entertainer in the ring and he knew he was better than the guy across from him.

I have nothing but love for Roy . He’s still a hero in this area and he’s very approachable. It’s not unusual to see him out at local restaurants ( especially Hooters , haha) watching games during football season . I’ve never seen him turn down an autograph or talk to fans that approach him . As cocky as he was in the ring , he’s a very cool dude in public . He loves to hunt and fish , he’s a big time Hog hunter . Very active in the Community . He will always be an Icon in Pensacola .

 

[zulu_nice]

I considered myself a pretty big boxing fan from Ali through the Roy Jones/Shane Mosley years, but lost interest after that. Been hearing the hype about this fight for months & ordered Showtime just to see it. It delivered. It went back & forth, with the American (who was losing on my card) getting a TKO on the Cuban in a late round. For the casual fan who may have lost interest like me, this sets up a possible unification fight for Wilder against the winner of Joshua (Brit) vs Parker (Kiwi) on March 31. Wilder proved he had a chin tonight before laying the lumber.

Wilder was exposed Saturday night. To beat him, just keep moving to your right (his left) in order to negate his bomb right hand, meanwhile throw jabs and combinations when possible to the body, hoping that he will lower his arms for a split second, leaving his head exposed.

Wilder fought a dude before this fight who did exactly this but paused in the corner for about 2 seconds in the 8th round, in which Wilder caught him with the bomb right hand. It was lights out after that.

 

[Brace1]

Anyone remember Gillette Friday Night Fights!

link

Nice article!

Wilder was exposed Saturday night. To beat him, just keep moving to your right (his left) in order to negate his bomb right hand, meanwhile throw jabs and combinations when possible to the body, hoping that he will lower his arms for a split second, leaving his head exposed.

Wilder fought a dude before this fight who did exactly this but paused in the corner for about 2 seconds in the 8th round, in which Wilder caught him with the bomb right hand. It was lights out after that.

He Definitely was exposed.

 

[803baller]

Wilder was exposed Saturday night. To beat him, just keep moving to your right (his left) in order to negate his bomb right hand, meanwhile throw jabs and combinations when possible to the body, hoping that he will lower his arms for a split second, leaving his head exposed.

Wilder fought a dude before this fight who did exactly this but paused in the corner for about 2 seconds in the 8th round, in which Wilder caught him with the bomb right hand. It was lights out after that.

Exposed by the best counter puncher in the Heavyweight division. No one else is as skilled of a boxer as Ortiz, and that's why Ortiz was named the most avoided boxer in the division. But Wilder's big right hand isn't an unknown secret; that's all you have guard against, but it's easier said than done(40-0, 39 KOs).

 

[PerchedOnRings]

Exposed by the best counter puncher in the Heavyweight division. No one else is as skilled of a boxer as Ortiz, and that's why Ortiz was named the most avoided boxer in the division. But Wilder's big right hand isn't an unknown secret; that's all you have guard against, but it's easier said than done(40-0, 39 KOs).

A southpaw counter-puncher at that.