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OT: Delta pushing for National No Fly List

Harvard Gamecock

Well-Known Member
May 5, 2014
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I for one hopes this happens, who wants to be on a flight when some knucklehead decides that rules don't apply to them, and start getting physical with airline staff. Putting all at risk around them regarding physical injury or having the flight diverted and causing unnecessary delays and/or missing connecting flights, ground transport, etc.
Absolutely no excuse for that kind of behavior.

Delta pushes airlines to create a national 'no fly' list of unruly passengers, after banning 1,600 people from its flights​

https://www.businessinsider.com/delta-air-lines-national-no-fly-list-ban-unruly-passengers-2021-9
 
I think maybe a one or two year ban would be more appropriate, and then if they start some trouble after that is up, a permanent ban.
 
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On the surface, it sounds great.

But, what constitutes “unruly”?

Certainly, some drunk trying to open cabin doors or fighting with stewardesses are problematic.

But a couple of weeks ago, a lady traveling with a 2 year old was kicked off a flight because the child (that she was holding and trying to comfort because she wasn’t feeling good) was crying and didn’t want to wear a mask.

First of all, it reads like overreach by the flight crew. The incident was filmed by fellow passengers, the Mom was trying to be compliant and was removed from the flight anyways.

Does she deserve a lifetime ban from all carriers? What about the child?

What about a traveler who is minding their own business, and a steward or stewardess who’s having a bad day says or does something irritating to the traveler? If you even verbally respond you can be considered a threat, kicked off the flight, and forever banned from future travel without any recourse. I know one guy who had an encounter with a stewardess on a cross country flight, he’d been compliant wearing his mask, and was taking a sip from a bottle of water when he was sharply told to put his mask on. He wasn’t the only one, several passengers in his vicinity were told the same thing. One passenger asked how he could wear his mask while drinking water, the stewardess flat out told that passenger that if he said one more word she’d have him arrested when the plane landed.

Don’t think it can’t happen. The current Federal No Fly list is riddled with mistakes, and those whose names appear on that list currently have no recourse to having their name removed. Senator Ted Kennedy and Rep. John Lewis were two politicians whose names popped up on the list, despite their political pull even they couldn’t get their names removed.


In theory it sounds great, but the Feds can’t handle the No Fly list they currently utilize. If your name accidentally gets put on the list, there’s no mechanism in place to have it removed. Can you imagine the fiasco we’ll have if they’d put this in place?

You literally can be on a plane traveling, someone somewhere else with a similar or the same name gets put on the list, and when you land in Dallas and change flights you can possibly be denied entry to that plane, or any other plane.

The country has much bigger issues to deal with without adding more layers of bureaucracy to a bloated system that currently doesn’t work.
 
The country has much bigger issues to deal with without adding more layers of bureaucracy to a bloated system that currently doesn’t work.
Just for clarification, and this is pulled from the article, this list is to be shared among the airlines, not with a government agency.

The carrier has pushed other US airlines to share their lists of passengers who have been banned during the pandemic for disruptive behaviour
 
Just for clarification, and this is pulled from the article, this list is to be shared among the airlines, not with a government agency.

The carrier has pushed other US airlines to share their lists of passengers who have been banned during the pandemic for disruptive behaviour
Read deeper into the article.

At a hearing on Thursday, US lawmakers and aviation unions pushed for new action to prevent unruly passenger incidents.

During the hearing, House Transportation Chairman Peter DeFazio asked if there were legal impediments to airlines sharing "no fly" lists. He said the FAA could potentially create a list.

Rep. Eddie Bernice Johnson, a Democrat, asked why the Justice Department was not doing more to prosecute unruly air passengers.


Sara Nelson, president of the Association of Flight Attendants-CWA (AFA) said that the Department of Justice (DOJ) "has been slow to conduct criminal investigations or seek indictments." Congress should encourage the DOJ to take action, she said.
 
Let the govt take over the airways. How bad could they mess that up. It taken long for peeps at the dmv’s to fall in line an obey the rules.
 
It's not as if there are no remedies for unruly passengers. Doesn't 49 USC 46504 already make it a federal crime to assault, intimidate, or otherwise interfere with a flight crew during the performance of their duties? If so, that would seem to cover "unruly" passengers. Does anyone ever get prosecuted? That would appear to be the remedy the airlines are seeking while also providing due-process to the passenger in question. Faced with the possibility of doing time in a federal prison, I'd think being placed on a no-fly list would be the least of their concerns.
 
As long as there is due process to contest it, and repercussions if wrongfully accused (one free flight a year for life, and the accuser(s) gets put on the no fly list for their life)....
 
I for one hopes this happens, who wants to be on a flight when some knucklehead decides that rules don't apply to them, and start getting physical with airline staff. Putting all at risk around them regarding physical injury or having the flight diverted and causing unnecessary delays and/or missing connecting flights, ground transport, etc.
Absolutely no excuse for that kind of behavior.

Delta pushes airlines to create a national 'no fly' list of unruly passengers, after banning 1,600 people from its flights​

https://www.businessinsider.com/delta-air-lines-national-no-fly-list-ban-unruly-passengers-2021-9
As long as there is due process to contest it, and repercussions if wrongfully accused (one free flight a year for life, and the accuser(s) gets put on the no fly list for their life)....
Due process to contest the decision of a private enterprise?
 
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Leaving LA (on Delta) this past June, I saw them take one of these special people off the plane.
HE was rude to staff, and other passengers, refusing to wear his mask likely drunk, and when the officer came on and said, you need to walk with me, no one was sad to see him leave.
 
To me, it seems like one of those things that sounds like a good idea initially. The problem comes later in the execution, and how it can be abused.
 
Almost as bad as SouthWest, if the pilot sees some in a field waving 20’s they will swing down and pick them up…
Never have had the experience to fly SouthWest. A friend of ours swears by them, but then again they are putting cost saving above every other factor.
For me, I'm willing to pay a little extra for an assigned and/or preferred seat, and early boarding. To each his own.
 
Due process to contest the decision of a private enterprise?
Private enterprises that provide necessary services can't band together to stop providing services to people who haven't done anything wrong. What if grocery stores did that?
 
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I dont fly that much anymore (winding down career) and I’m sure these unruly folks are being caught by the cell phones of today. BUT, i must say that i would be crawling up that sum bitches ass if i was on that plane and one of “those” folks went rouge on my flight. Just watching the 911 flights and what those folks attempted to do was heroic in those final minutes and I could not just sit there and let those folks continue to wreak havoc…jump their ass.
 
Due process to contest the decision of a private enterprise?

not sure how you define “private enterprise”, but I sure don’t consider it as public companies who have received many many billions of dollars in taxpayer funded bailouts and tax breaks. Any such list would absolutely need to be funded by the FAA and not by the airlines themselves. Hell, even their security, air traffic controllers, etc etc are taxpayer funded. Airlines are about the most non-private companies that exist. They absolutely shouldn’t be allowed to arbitrarily run “no fly” lists without oversight.
 
I like the idea of banishment to Spirit or Aligent for all bad behavior.

I would like national policy that punishes airlines for lousy service.
 
Municipal bus-level comfort and company.
When Spirit Airlines crashed for a few weeks this summer I was down in MIA for a few weeks. We were over-run with people who got free money from the government and flew Spirit down to party. They were interviewing people stuck in the airport because Spirit could not fly due to personnel shortages. These people were living in the airport with no money to rent a hotel room or even feed themselves, the interviews on the local news were very sad. But what kind of person goes on vacation but does not have enough money to buy a few extra days of food or a credit card to rent a hotel or buy a ticket on a better airline? These are the people who fly on Spirit and the like.
 
Almost as bad as SouthWest, if the pilot sees some in a field waving 20’s they will swing down and pick them up…
I swore off of Delta years ago and fly Southwest as my first choice.
Delta has become this century's Eastern.
 
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