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OT:Interesting find on Venus

jedi_mike

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Mar 29, 2008
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"I should emphasize that life, as an explanation for our discovery, should be, as always, the last resort," Sousa-Silva added. "This is important because, if it is phosphine, and if it is life, it means that we are not alone. It also means that life itself must be very common, and there must be many other inhabited planets throughout our galaxy."

 
A goddess on a mountain top
Was burning like a silver flame
The summit of beauty and love
And Venus was her name
She's got it
Yeah baby, she's got it
Well, I'm your Venus
I'm your fire
At your desire
Well, I'm your Venus
I'm your fire
At your desire
Her weapons were her crystal eyes
Making every man mad
Black as the dark night she was
Got what no one else had
She's got it
Yeah baby, she's got it
Well, I'm your Venus
I'm your fire
At your…
 
Hey, Venus!
Oh, Venus!

Venus, if you will
Please send a little girl for me to thrill
A girl who wants my kisses and my arms
A girl with all the charms of you

Venus, make her fair
A lovely girl with sunlight in her hair
And take the brightest stars up in the skies
And place them in her eyes for me

Venus, goddess of love that you are
Surely the things I ask
Can't be too great a task

Venus, if you do
I promise that I always will be true
I'll give her all the love I have to give
As long as we both shall live

Venus, goddess of love that you are
Surely the things I ask
Can't be too great a task
Venus, if you do
I promise that I always will be true
I'll give her all the love I have to give
As long as we both shall live

Hey, Venus!
Oh, Venus!
Make my wish come true
 
"I should emphasize that life, as an explanation for our discovery, should be, as always, the last resort," Sousa-Silva added. "This is important because, if it is phosphine, and if it is life, it means that we are not alone. It also means that life itself must be very common, and there must be many other inhabited planets throughout our galaxy."


Interesting how they can find bacteria on a planet and call it life, yet they don't recognize a fully functioning, beating heart in an unborn child as life.
 
Just to be clear, they haven't actually found life on another planet yet.
They have found- this finding of phosphine which is most likely produced by living organisms- as they say it is really the only plausible explanation and a clear bio-signature. They have found meteors and rocks/ from the moon and mars with signs of microbial life in very small amounts, thiugh they cannot rule out contamination or mistaken identity of fossilized microbes. So, we haven’t landed on Mars and been greeted by an advanced alien civilization but there has been substantial evidence of life existing beyond earth for decades now... This is just the most recent finding pointing to the same conclusion. What evidence would cause you to confirm they found life?
 
They have found- this finding of phosphine which is most likely produced by living organisms- as they say it is really the only plausible explanation and a clear bio-signature. They have found meteors and rocks/ from the moon and mars with signs of microbial life in very small amounts, thiugh they cannot rule out contamination or mistaken identity of fossilized microbes. So, we haven’t landed on Mars and been greeted by an advanced alien civilization but there has been substantial evidence of life existing beyond earth for decades now... This is just the most recent finding pointing to the same conclusion. What evidence would cause you to confirm they found life?

A living organism.

As far as they know, phosphine has a biological origin...based on what we know now.

My bigger question is this: what would it matter if they found bacteria in the atmosphere of Venus? It would be interesting, and that's about it.

The effort to find life on another planet has been the biggest boondoggle in history.
 
A living organism.

As far as they know, phosphine has a biological origin...based on what we know now.

My bigger question is this: what would it matter if they found bacteria in the atmosphere of Venus? It would be interesting, and that's about it.

The effort to find life on another planet has been the biggest boondoggle in history.

To me it would be a big deal in that it would really deepen the mystery of the Fermi Paradox.

IMO one of the strongest theories for why we haven't seen aliens is that chemically it's very rare for life to develop in the first place. But if it developed on neighboring planets Earth AND Venus, then it gets pretty hard to say that it's some super-rare event.

So then the argument shifts towards it's very rare for life to evolve from simple to intelligent. But to me this argument is much less convincing, as intelligence is so obviously a trait that evolution would tend to select.
 
To me it would be a big deal in that it would really deepen the mystery of the Fermi Paradox.

IMO one of the strongest theories for why we haven't seen aliens is that chemically it's very rare for life to develop in the first place. But if it developed on neighboring planets Earth AND Venus, then it gets pretty hard to say that it's some super-rare event.

So then the argument shifts towards it's very rare for life to evolve from simple to intelligent. But to me this argument is much less convincing, as intelligence is so obviously a trait that evolution would tend to select.

I agree, it's very important for evolutionists to find life somewhere else. I would say they are desperate to do so. That's why we've spent billions (trilliions?) trying to do just that.

For those who adhere to intelligent design, it's much less important. They look at all the failed attempts to find life elsewhere as further solidifying the role of Providence in establishing life on earth.
 
First, evolution isn't, necessarily, antithetical to 'intelligent design'. I would further argue that evolution isn't a basis for a particular metaphysical or spiritual foundation. Those things are more based on personal perspective and, by its very nature, can't be proven or disproven. That's why it's called 'Faith'.
 
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I agree, it's very important for evolutionists to find life somewhere else. I would say they are desperate to do so. That's why we've spent billions (trilliions?) trying to do just that.

For those who adhere to intelligent design, it's much less important. They look at all the failed attempts to find life elsewhere as further solidifying the role of Providence in establishing life on earth.

Well yes, of course someone who already "knows the truth" will care less about any new evidence.
 
To me it would be a big deal in that it would really deepen the mystery of the Fermi Paradox.

IMO one of the strongest theories for why we haven't seen aliens is that chemically it's very rare for life to develop in the first place. But if it developed on neighboring planets Earth AND Venus, then it gets pretty hard to say that it's some super-rare event.

So then the argument shifts towards it's very rare for life to evolve from simple to intelligent. But to me this argument is much less convincing, as intelligence is so obviously a trait that evolution would tend to select.
Unfortunately, intelligence is devolving now instead of evolving. I'm sure I can't find where I read it but it's been proven that humans now are less intelligent than those living during the middle ages. Looking around the internet it's not really hard to believe.
 
So you're sayin' that "evolution", in and of itself, actually possess a conscience?? =;-p

It's Tuesday man! Just sayin'!!


Not sure if serious.

With modern Humanity being the exception that proves the rule, what he is saying is that smarter, aka more adaptive to individual circumstances, creatures will have a higher survival rate, thus better chances at reproduction and passing on that trait.
 
Not sure if serious.

With modern Humanity being the exception that proves the rule, what he is saying is that smarter, aka more adaptive to individual circumstances, creatures will have a higher survival rate, thus better chances at reproduction and passing on that trait.
Man that reply of mine was nothing more than a lite-hearted attempt at a lame and ironically "half-witted" inquiry! As I stated, its Tuesday, hence we ain't even made it over the "hump" yet!!

It's All Good!! Later!!
 
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We're no closer to discovering life on other planets than we were 50 years ago. So this whole endeavor has been a waste in that sense. However, it has driven the development of new technologies, so it's been beneficial from that standpoint.
 
I agree, it's very important for evolutionists to find life somewhere else. I would say they are desperate to do so. That's why we've spent billions (trilliions?) trying to do just that.

For those who adhere to intelligent design, it's much less important. They look at all the failed attempts to find life elsewhere as further solidifying the role of Providence in establishing life on earth.


A living organism.

As far as they know, phosphine has a biological origin...based on what we know now.

My bigger question is this: what would it matter if they found bacteria in the atmosphere of Venus? It would be interesting, and that's about it.

The effort to find life on another planet has been the biggest boondoggle in history.
Your question about why would it matter was answered above- But I see why you are so obtuse on the subject now. Religion. It is a challenge to Christina beliefs to imply life exists outside of Earth so clearly it must not, right?

So.. how were we supposed to find a living organism? Did you expect aliens to throw us a party the day man landed on the moon? We have only really been to the moon.. We have sent probes and nothing more to other planets! Those probes have uncovered reasonable evidence of life existing on virtually every other rock we have studied in any detail though... so to call it a “boondoggle” seems to be a slanted personal view from someone who wants to believe in faith of a religion/specific wording of religious beliefs as opposed to believing in science. If that is the case then no amount of “evidence” will convince someone of the truth. Blind political and religious fanaticism are the biggest evils harming society today. As long as people will believe people simply because they represent a party or religion over actual scientists/scientific evidence and (to correlate to the pandemic we are embroiled in currently) public health experts... We will continue to struggle to advance as a society, and this unprecedented division will increase. We are taking huge strides backwards currently... But believe/ have “faith” in whatever guidance you wish. I chose to believe in science over “magic” (religion) and lies (politics) personally.
 
Your question about why would it matter was answered above- But I see why you are so obtuse on the subject now. Religion. It is a challenge to Christina beliefs to imply life exists outside of Earth so clearly it must not, right?

So.. how were we supposed to find a living organism? Did you expect aliens to throw us a party the day man landed on the moon? We have only really been to the moon.. We have sent probes and nothing more to other planets! Those probes have uncovered reasonable evidence of life existing on virtually every other rock we have studied in any detail though... so to call it a “boondoggle” seems to be a slanted personal view from someone who wants to believe in faith of a religion/specific wording of religious beliefs as opposed to believing in science. If that is the case then no amount of “evidence” will convince someone of the truth. Blind political and religious fanaticism are the biggest evils harming society today. As long as people will believe people simply because they represent a party or religion over actual scientists/scientific evidence and (to correlate to the pandemic we are embroiled in currently) public health experts... We will continue to struggle to advance as a society, and this unprecedented division will increase. We are taking huge strides backwards currently... But believe/ have “faith” in whatever guidance you wish. I chose to believe in science over “magic” (religion) and lies (politics) personally.

You need to go back and read my post a bit more closely. I didn't espouse a position, but rather presented both perspectives. I did not say which one I thought was right. You obviously inferred something from my post that I did not say.

What I did say is correct. Evolutionists need for there to be life on other planets. To those who adhere to some form of ID, it's not important. To this point they would say all the research has only further solidified that there is something divinely special about life on this planet. However, if scientists ever do actually discover life on another planet (not just evidence that suggests life may be possible), they'll just shrug it off and say God put it there. So I'm just not sure it really matters to them one way or the other.

My only question in all of this, irrespective of any philosophical issues is: what difference will it make? Say they find bacteria teeming in the atmosphere of Venus. What will that mean?

I just find a lot of this stuff to be humorous. Every so often, you'll see a headline proclaiming that scientists have a discovered an earth-like planet. Then you find out it's like 30 billion light years away and while it may be appropriately distanced from it's "sun", it's got some crazy properties that would make it utterly inhospitable to life. Yet, they're all excited about it.

I don't know what it all means, but scientists around the world have been searching the cosmos 24 hours a day, 7 days a week for decades and have come up with nothing more that some chemicals that may be suggestive of life.
 
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Man that reply of mine was nothing more than a lite-hearted attempt at a lame and ironically "half-witted" inquiry! As I stated, its Tuesday, hence we ain't even made it over the "hump" yet!!

It's All Good!! Later!!


Wasn't sure if it serious, but treated it like it was just in case. Bring on as much brevity as you'd like to this board. It needs it some days.
 
You need to go back and read my post a bit more closely. I didn't espouse a position, but rather presented both perspectives. I did not say which one I thought was right. You obviously inferred something from my post that I did not say.

What I did say is correct. Evolutionists need for there to be life on other planets. To those who adhere to some form of ID, it's not important. To this point they would say all the research has only further solidified that there is something divinely special about life on this planet. However, if scientists ever do actually discover life on another planet (not just evidence that suggests life may be possible), they'll just shrug it off and say God put it there. So I'm just not sure it really matters to them one way or the other.

My only question in all of this, irrespective of any philosophical issues is: what difference will it make? Say they find bacteria teeming in the atmosphere of Venus. What will that mean?

I just find a lot of this stuff to be humorous. Every so often, you'll see a headline proclaiming that scientists have a discovered an earth-like planet. Then you find out it's like 30 billion light years away and while it may be appropriately distanced from it's "sun", it's got some crazy properties that would make it utterly inhospitable to life. Yet, they're all excited about it.

I don't know what it all means, but scientists around the world have been searching the cosmos 24 hours a day, 7 days a week for decades and have come up with nothing more that some chemicals that may be suggestive of life.

I mean, yes, you're absolutely correct that very few discoveries in astronomy carry any immediate practical significance. However, I find it difficult to identify with someone who doesn't find these questions to be interesting on any level.
 
Warm planets good for life. Cold planets bad. Interesting.

Yeah I still think I tend to side with the Goldilocks hypothesis since liquid water seems like the perfect medium for facilitating chemical reactions.

Although it does seem possible that, once life is established on a hot planet, the high enthalpy could help to drive more rapid evolution, due both to chemistry and selection pressure.
 
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I mean, yes, you're absolutely correct that very few discoveries in astronomy carry any immediate practical significance. However, I find it difficult to identify with someone who doesn't find these questions to be interesting on any level.

Didn't say it wasn't interesting. Just not meaningful. Unless maybe that bacteria they discover in the atmosphere of Venus performs a previously unknown fermentation process and they can create a whole new kind of cheese with it.
 
Not political. Just a moral statement.
oh? Which is it when athletes kneel for the anthem? They view it as a moral statement- not a single one is using that time to tout one POLITICAL party over another, they feel they are speaking out against attrocities against mankind as I am sure you feel you are by bringing abortion into a thread about life on another planet? But yet everyone butthurt about being reminded of the plight of black people in America call it “political”... So where is the line between moral statement and politics when interjecting your opinion on an irrelevant subject into a situation? I am curious to know...

Regardless- breaching a politically heated subject in the midst of an otherwise civil discourse on a scientific subject most of us find interesting is at the least odd. At worst it risks the mods locking the thread for spiraling into a heated POLITICAL debate... completely unnecessary!
 
Didn't say it wasn't interesting. Just not meaningful. Unless maybe that bacteria they discover in the atmosphere of Venus performs a previously unknown fermentation process and they can create a whole new kind of cheese with it.
Or BEER!?! Jk

It may not immediately affect your personal daily life the way a new type of cheese would LOL- but definitive proof of any form of extraterrestrial life is certainly meaningful. Perhaps one of the most meaningful endeavors of human kind- it helps us answer so many questions about where life came from (NOT HERE), how it develops, the extremes it can survive and a billion other timeless questions of science.
 
Hey, Venus!
Oh, Venus!

Venus, if you will
Please send a little girl for me to thrill
A girl who wants my kisses and my arms
A girl with all the charms of you

Venus, make her fair
A lovely girl with sunlight in her hair
And take the brightest stars up in the skies
And place them in her eyes for me

Venus, goddess of love that you are
Surely the things I ask
Can't be too great a task

Venus, if you do
I promise that I always will be true
I'll give her all the love I have to give
As long as we both shall live

Venus, goddess of love that you are
Surely the things I ask
Can't be too great a task
Venus, if you do
I promise that I always will be true
I'll give her all the love I have to give
As long as we both shall live

Hey, Venus!
Oh, Venus!
Make my wish come true

Memories.

 
Or BEER!?! Jk

It may not immediately affect your personal daily life the way a new type of cheese would LOL- but definitive proof of any form of extraterrestrial life is certainly meaningful. Perhaps one of the most meaningful endeavors of human kind- it helps us answer so many questions about where life came from (NOT HERE), how it develops, the extremes it can survive and a billion other timeless questions of science.

Not to mention discoveries that may lead to how we can support human life on other worlds by learning how nature has already solved some of the problems. Or the trickle down technologies that do effect our everyday life.... like Memory Foam!
 
Not to mention discoveries that may lead to how we can support human life on other worlds by learning how nature has already solved some of the problems. Or the trickle down technologies that do effect our everyday life.... like Memory Foam!
And Tang!

bad example...
 
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A living organism.

As far as they know, phosphine has a biological origin...based on what we know now.

My bigger question is this: what would it matter if they found bacteria in the atmosphere of Venus? It would be interesting, and that's about it.

The effort to find life on another planet has been the biggest boondoggle in history.

Shoot for the moon and even if you miss you’ll land among the stars. By calling the effort to find life on another planet a boondoggle, you purposely ignore the scientific advances and progress that have come from the effort. And chances are if we ever make a colony off of this planet, much of what has been discovered through trying to find other life will serve as the basis of our efforts there.
 
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oh? Which is it when athletes kneel for the anthem? They view it as a moral statement- not a single one is using that time to tout one POLITICAL party over another, they feel they are speaking out against attrocities against mankind as I am sure you feel you are by bringing abortion into a thread about life on another planet? But yet everyone butthurt about being reminded of the plight of black people in America call it “political”... So where is the line between moral statement and politics when interjecting your opinion on an irrelevant subject into a situation? I am curious to know...

Regardless- breaching a politically heated subject in the midst of an otherwise civil discourse on a scientific subject most of us find interesting is at the least odd. At worst it risks the mods locking the thread for spiraling into a heated POLITICAL debate... completely unnecessary!
That poster made an appropriate, comparative comment, not responding to any one particular post. And you, in your snooty, highbrow, intellectual, and elitist manner have no response except ridicule. We call bull s*it on that in Fingerville.
 
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