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Paying Players - REAL TALK

HBCShaneDarkSide

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Aug 30, 2018
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Everyone is thinking about it but it seems like the national media doesn’t want to talk about it much. College football is a money making machine and it’s high time the players got paid for their part. There are lots of arguments for and against this idea. The arguments against it are largely retrograde meritless boomer-speak jive. This post is about how it could and should become a reality and how it could positively remake the sport and the culture surrounding it. I’ll outline some basic thoughts swirling around the interwebz and then look at some specific coaches and sports personalities' thoughts on the situation. Per usual, this is real talk. Don’t bring your whining and crying, just bring the facts.

Say what you will about the current staff at the NYT but they are still the standard in good journalism. Read this article and understand it before spouting off at the mouth with your opinion. In a nutshell, the supreme court is about to tell the NCAA to grow up. Compensation for athletes is going to expand dramatically and they should end up with the right to license their likenesses. This doesn’t open the door to outright paying players but it definitely provides an avenue for proponents of paying players to move forward and make their case.

Here is an article from the WSJ that goes into significantly more detail about what is happening at the state level to provide athletes with more opportunities to profit from their efforts. In California they want to let athletes get paid by third parties if they are good enough to do so. The NCAA is caving on this issue and good for them. Welcome to the 21st century. Simply put, this will allow athletes to get paid to do just about anything. Boosters could pay athletes for being in commercials for their businesses or big brands could license an athlete’s name, image, or likeness for a product or design. This is a pandora’s box of sorts but, in the end, it is not only fair and the right thing to do, but it will create parity in college football and basketball. The NCAA should focus on what the regulation of this will look like. How can it be used to make sports better for athletes and fans alike?

Federal legislation could also pave the way for universities to pay athletes directly. This is the answer. Let players make a base salary relative to their tenure on a team. Regulate that across divisions and cap it. Then, apply a performance based bonus structure with set amounts for certain things (like a sack, a dunk, or an interception) and no upper limit on the total amount you can make for ballin’ out. Within 5 years, this would level the playing field across the power 5 conferences and make college football as entertaining (almost) to watch as the NFL in terms of the on-the-field product. Players are going to go where they can immediately play and make money. This will eliminate the hyper-depth at the few top schools and allow the traditionally non-competitive teams to actually compete. It would also allow for a more expansive playoff system that could generate hundreds of millions of dollars in increased revenue when compared to the current bowl system. This idea and competing ideas is a lot to tackle in written form but here is a great piece from Bleacher Report on the subject. Dan Levy does a great job here thinking through how it might work. Keep in mind, this is an older article (2013) and a lot has changed in the 7 years since it was written.

How do coaches feel about this? Well, we know Dabo don’t like it one durn bit! He even threatened to quit over it. This makes sense though. He makes millions a year under the current system and is a classic example of the change-is-bad mentality that is pervasive in every facet of American life. He’s known for being ridiculous (just look at the whole ranking OSU #11 and then getting destroyed by them in the Sugar Bowl debacle). What about other big name coaches? Saban’s stance has been consistently vanilla. He tends to just defer to the NCAA. Brian Kelly is similarly bland about it. Spurrier has been vocal about paying players for a long time. Anyone who has ever heard Steve Spurrier speak knows he is one of the sharpest guys to ever work in the business of football. His idea is fairly simple; pay the players generating the revenue.

I asked Chris Clark earlier this week on the Insider’s Forum if he had the scoop on Shane Beamer’s thoughts on this. Hopefully the guys will dig into that soon. It is my hope that HBC Shane falls in the progressive camp on this. Not only is it simply a good thing for athletes, it would give Carolina an advantage in the arms race of college football.

I have had this debate with a number of people over the last few years. The thinking on this subject generally falls into two camps. The first is the logical folks who see it as inevitable and a big positive. These people generally acknowledge that D1 football and basketball are basically minor league sports with a deeply connected fanbase. Amateurism is a joke in the 21st century. Let’s make sports better and more fun. The second camp is the retrograde “they get paid a college education der der der duhhhh in my day we had to drink our beer out of bowls and they kept the women where they belong; in dresses” bad attitude group who survive by gulping from the urinal of nostalgia. Kidding aside, I would challenge anyone who disagrees with paying players to provide an articulate reasoning for it. The only articulate responses I can find stem from the idea that it would bankrupt smaller schools. This makes no sense. Schools could ultimately choose who to pay, if they want to pay anyone at all. Then, the players can decide where they want to go play based on the myriad of factors that go into that decision. That’s this new concept called the free market.

Real talk. Come at me.
 
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& High School then middle school & travel ball.
I think at the college level a consistent stipend & maybe a unilateral bump for games played in a season & allow an opportunity for outside earnings. The concern is no ability to regulate outside earnings when the Bama QB gets 50k$ to drop by a car dealer & the Coastal Carolina QB gets $1000 for supporting the petting zoo.

Middle ground will need to exist
 
First off I don’t think the Supreme Court is gonna approve paying college athletes, and I don’t think it will make college sports better. And why do you think it will give Carolina an advantage? And in no way will paying players level the playing field, we will see the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. It will switch the power in football “dramatically, schools like Michigan, Penn State, Ohio State, Syracuse, Wisconsin, Texas, Norte Dame, will rule college football, and big money schools like Duke, North Carolina and SMU Will too if they decide to invest more into football. Think about this “what if the Ivy League schools decide to get on board? Harvard could dominate the collegiate landscape if they wanted, and Yale could also with the money those two schools have. And I know at first it will be some kind of cap on what the players can make, but as it “progresses” schools will be handing out contracts like professional sports. I understand that it will help a lot of families and it’ll probably setup a few players for life, but I don’t believe it will help college sports at all!
 
If they pay players, Schools will lose their non-profit status for college athletics, which means donor fans will not be able to deduct their contributions on their taxes. Also it would subject schools to all state and federal employment laws and regulations....as all paid players would then become employees. Might as well simply give up intercollegiate sports in which players are being paid.
 
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Your post was tedious from about the middle of the first paragraph and better suited for a Reddit comment thread. I then skipped to the bottom, but wound up reading it all piecemeal.

You and others like you that hate college football are making it too complicated. The best route is always going to be by way of the crooked booster. Leave well enough alone. We just need more of them.

Then you want to expand the playoff, when the whole thing needs to be shuttered. It seems to me that people like you want college football to be more like the NFL. Well, we already have that. It is called the NFL. You should go watch it sometime.

And if you're pining for schools to pay players directly, you're living in a fantasy land if you think it will only apply to football and men's basketball. Lawsuits will fill the courts like Peter North fills a condom if the women's soccer team doesn't get the same deal.

People don't mind change, as long as it isn't directed by dullards that consistently make things worse. The change you want is like suggesting I start eating my soup with a fork instead of a spoon.
 
The problem is no one wants to recognize that the players are getting paid.
Free education
Free housing
Housing allowance
Free athletic apparel
Free meals
Free Nutritionists
Free Training
Free coaching
Bowl prize packages
3-4 year exposure and tryout for NFL
Graduate debt free
A network for future employment (what business owner wouldnt want a former star working for them)
Plus additional salary one would make over a lifetime than someone without a college degree.

Additionally, no one wants to recognize that football (at most schools) funds the entire athletic department and all other non revenue sports.

Paying players would be a disaster for the sport IMO. Because the schools with deep pocket alumni would be able to pay players top dollar. So the rich would get richer. Clemson and SC would suffer suffer greatly. Hootie and Lee Bice cant afford to fund players forever.

Additionally allowing players to earn money from their likeness would only pay the stars / skill players. Linemen and backups will not reap any benefits and would create animosity among the team, which is exactly why I cant stand the NFL.

Its just like if one invents or patents a process or utility while a student, it becomes property of the university. The students know that up front.

The student athlete knows upfront what is expected of them. They know what they are getting in return for playing a sport. No one is forcing them to play. But they also need the college game in order to get to the next level. I dont think anyone has ever gone from HS to the NFL training for 3 years on their own.

I think it is the players who plan on a career in the NFL, get a useless degree and dont make it in the pros who make the most noise about getting paid.IDK, I just think it is a bad idea.
 
They are going to have to start paying players because scholarships will be worthless once the socialist forgive all the student loans. College will be free for everyone so there goes the argument about an athlete getting a free ride. If and when they do start paying players (legitimately) they should have a high school drafting system similar to other pro sports unless they want to keep the same few powerhouses dominating for eternity. Oh wait, that is exactly what they want.

The only good thing that will come from paying (legitimately) players is that Dabo will quit coaching college football (assuming Dabo is a man of his word and didn't just say that to grandstand and make himself look even more pious?). The reason Dabo is against paying (legitimately) college players is that it will damage his biggest advantage (paying players illegitimately.)
 
They are going to have to start paying players because scholarships will be worthless once the socialist forgive all the student loans. College will be free for everyone so there goes the argument about an athlete getting a free ride. If and when they do start paying players (legitimately) they should have a high school drafting system similar to other pro sports unless they want to keep the same few powerhouses dominating for eternity. Oh wait, that is exactly what they want.

The only good thing that will come from paying (legitimately) players is that Dabo will quit coaching college football (assuming Dabo is a man of his word and didn't just say that to grandstand and make himself look even more pious?). The reason Dabo is against paying (legitimately) college players is that it will damage his biggest advantage (paying players illegitimately.)
This is good stuff. I think the already devalued college degree combined with the fact that most D1 football players almost entirely focus on football while they are in school sets up perfectly for essentially a minor league system within the university system.

I get the problematic nature of athletes being employees but it's a poorly thought out argument. Plenty of students "work" for their schools without being employees. Relying on this argument to deny paying players is shallow at best.

Again, not saying all athletes should be paid equally. It should be tied to performance (which roughly equates to revenue generation in the context of football and basketball). If you argue against paying skilled players because it leaves out the less skilled or less valued players, you're basically a socialist. "They make more than me so no one should make anything!"

Schools would not forfeit their non-profit status if they paid players any more than they would lose it for compensating graduate researchers or anyone else at the university. The legal wrangling is almost beside the point though. If the SCOTUS decides to open the door, it gets opened.

In terms of how it would benefit Carolina, it's pretty simple. Salary caps and open financial constraints are what creates parity at the professional level. You could make the argument that a school with a huge endowment would be able to essentially buy a championship but that's nonsensical. It would allow a school like Harvard to field a more competitive team relative to a bigger traditional football school. It would also prevent schools from having more than a few 5 star type players. If those players make more money (by playing sooner and thereby generating revenue sooner) by going to a school that is thinner at their positions, that's where they will likely go. That's the market at work my dudes.
 
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so now we’re the have nots demanding others to change so we can have more without actually doing more? i don’t wish to be attached to that. you were not very subtle when it came to the politik’n
 
so now we’re the have nots demanding others to change so we can have more without actually doing more? i don’t wish to be attached to that. you were not very subtle when it came to the politik’n
If college football somehow dictated tax legislation this might make sense. Your analogy kind of works tho, at least in tone. A redistribution of wealth (wealth being the best players) would make the game more fun to watch.
 
If college football somehow dictated tax legislation this might make sense. Your analogy kind of works tho, at least in tone. A redistribution of wealth (wealth being the best players) would make the game more fun to watch.
i hope you realize how many of these kids lives will be ruined by shady ambulance chasing lawyers representing their clients’ “best interests” when it comes to the contractual obligations said client will have to meet in order to get paid. you think zion would have had any time for class, much less basketball practice if every car dealership in the state was willing to lay down top dollar for an ad? there’s a specific reason, and a good one, that student comes before athlete. if a guy wants cash, fine, scholarships pulled. hope you make enough to pay back those loans. i would also hope that mandatory success in a basic contract law, and personal finance class be implemented before being allowed to receive any amount of money. won’t happen though. we gots rights y’know.
 
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i hope you realize how many of these kids lives will be ruined by shady ambulance chasing lawyers representing their clients’ “best interests” when it comes to the contractual obligations said client will have to meet in order to get paid. you think zion would have had any time for class, much less basketball practice if every car dealership in the state was willing to lay down top dollar for an ad? there’s a specific reason, and a good one, that student comes before athlete. if a guy wants cash, fine, scholarships pulled. hope you make enough to pay back those loans. i would also hope that mandatory success in a basic contract law, and personal finance class be implemented before being allowed to receive any amount of money. won’t happen though. we gots rights y’know.
Isn't this the domain of the sports agent? The Bleacher Report article referenced in my original post quotes one such agent coincidentally from SC. I'd imagine we see those agents operating openly in college sports before long.
 
College baseball has a two-tiered system where generally the players who want a degree go to college and those who don’t want a degree go play in the minor leagues. What needs to change to make that happen for football and basketball?
 
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Your post was tedious from about the middle of the first paragraph and better suited for a Reddit comment thread. I then skipped to the bottom, but wound up reading it all piecemeal.

You and others like you that hate college football are making it too complicated. The best route is always going to be by way of the crooked booster. Leave well enough alone. We just need more of them.

Then you want to expand the playoff, when the whole thing needs to be shuttered. It seems to me that people like you want college football to be more like the NFL. Well, we already have that. It is called the NFL. You should go watch it sometime.

And if you're pining for schools to pay players directly, you're living in a fantasy land if you think it will only apply to football and men's basketball. Lawsuits will fill the courts like Peter North fills a condom if the women's soccer team doesn't get the same deal.

People don't mind change, as long as it isn't directed by dullards that consistently make things worse. The change you want is like suggesting I start eating my soup with a fork instead of a spoon.
the north pole has never touched a condom.
 
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This is good stuff. I think the already devalued college degree combined with the fact that most D1 football players almost entirely focus on football while they are in school sets up perfectly for essentially a minor league system within the university system.

I get the problematic nature of athletes being employees but it's a poorly thought out argument. Plenty of students "work" for their schools without being employees. Relying on this argument to deny paying players is shallow at best.

Again, not saying all athletes should be paid equally. It should be tied to performance (which roughly equates to revenue generation in the context of football and basketball). If you argue against paying skilled players because it leaves out the less skilled or less valued players, you're basically a socialist. "They make more than me so no one should make anything!"

Schools would not forfeit their non-profit status if they paid players any more than they would lose it for compensating graduate researchers or anyone else at the university. The legal wrangling is almost beside the point though. If the SCOTUS decides to open the door, it gets opened.

In terms of how it would benefit Carolina, it's pretty simple. Salary caps and open financial constraints are what creates parity at the professional level. You could make the argument that a school with a huge endowment would be able to essentially buy a championship but that's nonsensical. It would allow a school like Harvard to field a more competitive team relative to a bigger traditional football school. It would also prevent schools from having more than a few 5 star type players. If those players make more money (by playing sooner and thereby generating revenue sooner) by going to a school that is thinner at their positions, that's where they will likely go. That's the market at work my dudes.
You do understand that the exemption for college athletics is not under the same provision for the one that gives the school an exemption?

Also, how many of those working students work in a job that can cause a career ending injury?

Your analysis was very shallow.
 
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Isn't this the domain of the sports agent? The Bleacher Report article referenced in my original post quotes one such agent coincidentally from SC. I'd imagine we see those agents operating openly in college sports before long.
gonna need a boat load of new agents first. real seedy ones.
 
You do understand that the exemption for college athletics is not under the same provision for the one that gives the school an exemption?

Also, how many of those working students work in a job that can cause a career ending injury?

Your analysis was very shallow.
Your response is poorly reasoned. Those exemptions are what's at stake in the referenced supreme court decision as well as subsequent legislation, among other things.

Don't get lost in the legal wrangling. Absolutely anything can be ironed into legal existence in our country.

The injury nonsense is just that. Insurance bruh.
 
Your response is poorly reasoned. Those exemptions are what's at stake in the referenced supreme court decision as well as subsequent legislation, among other things.

Don't get lost in the legal wrangling. Absolutely anything can be ironed into legal existence in our country.

The injury nonsense is just that. Insurance bruh.
Okay? Sure you can just iron out all the legal wranglings.....LOL. Tell that to the NCAA and to TOSU who have fought the IRS for years. You are giving the IRS all the ammo they need. College football and basketball and any other sport that pays for college athletes will end....as it should because if you are paying players it is "professional."
 
Okay? Sure you can just iron out all the legal wranglings.....LOL. Tell that to the NCAA and to TOSU who have fought the IRS for years. You are giving the IRS all the ammo they need. College football and basketball and any other sport that pays for college athletes will end....as it should because if you are paying players it is "professional."
How would college football and basketball end?
 
Okay? Sure you can just iron out all the legal wranglings.....LOL. Tell that to the NCAA and to TOSU who have fought the IRS for years. You are giving the IRS all the ammo they need. College football and basketball and any other sport that pays for college athletes will end....as it should because if you are paying players it is "professional."
And yeah, the legal issues would get ironed out. The same thing happens with any piece of legislation. Top down mandates inherently force lower courts to deal with micro level issues. The examples of this are all over the place. Basically every SCOTUS decision.
 
And yeah, the legal issues would get ironed out. The same thing happens with any piece of legislation. Top down mandates inherently force lower courts to deal with micro level issues. The examples of this are all over the place. Basically every SCOTUS decision.
Hmmm...it didn't for NYU School of Law when they were left the Mueller corporation. Perhaps a case you should read.
 
Again, legal issue. Pay them as contractors. Or just factor it into to compensation like any employer does.
Contractors? You don't know business law well do you? There is absolutely no way to classify a football player as a contractor under state law or federal tax law.

Nor would it make them any less "professional" if you could.
 
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& High School then middle school & travel ball.

The difference is that there isn't money in HS, middle school, and travel ball. No billion dollar TV contracts, sky high ticket prices, coaches making millions, etc. I've never paid a dime nor will I ever pay a dime to watch a travel ball team and there aren't entire cable channels dedicated to middle school football. Millions pay big money to watch the Lattimores, Clowneys, and Connor Shaws of the world at the college level through ticket prices and cable subscriptions, though. Your analogy doesn't work, alas.
 
Contractors? You don't know business law well do you? There is absolutely no way to classify a football player as a contractor under state law or federal tax law.

Nor would it make them any less "professional" if you could.
Of course there is. Federal or state legislation could turn them into employees overnight.

The whole basis of your argument is that something can't be done simply because there is no precedent. Wouldn't jurisprudence be interesting if this train of thought were pervasive.

Which firm do you work for? Hopefully not one of the ones I employ.
 
The difference is that there isn't money in HS, middle school, and travel ball. No billion dollar TV contracts, sky high ticket prices, coaches making millions, etc. I've never paid a dime nor will I ever pay a dime to watch a travel ball team and there aren't entire cable channels dedicated to middle school football. Millions pay big money to watch the Lattimores, Clowneys, and Connor Shaws of the world at the college level through ticket prices and cable subscriptions, though. Your analogy doesn't work, alas.
100% on this. Like Spurrier said in the linked article on the original post, revenue generators should get paid for generating revenue.

That said, if there was a high school athlete who was so unique that his school stood to benefit tremendously from him playing there, why not pay him (or her)? Plenty of private schools basically already do this by offering scholarships. Though it's not for revenue generation. It's more so for some other agenda like a diversity mandate.
 
Read the case. NYU sold it and made money obviously, but read the tax case where they were collecting the income from it....and the impact of having too much UBIT.
So this one anecdote is the basis of your argument for not paying college athletes?
 
Of course there is. Federal or state legislation could turn them into employees overnight.

The whole basis of your argument is that something can't be done simply because there is no precedent. Wouldn't jurisprudence be interesting if this train of thought were pervasive.

Which firm do you work for? Hopefully not one of the ones I employ.
I doubt you employ any. And there is almost no way to make an exception that any decent lawyer couldn't drive a semi through for many other types of employees. Legislatures simply aren't going to put up with all that in an attempt to create an exception for college sports....it would mess up their whole employment law structure.
 
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"Say what you will about the current staff at the NYT but they are still the standard in good journalism."

You lost me at the beginning of the second paragraph. They are not! Just bringing the facts...
Yeah, should've been more careful with that. I agree with you. I still enjoy reading some of their stuff though. I thought that was a fairly unbiased report on the situation. And it was from like 2 weeks ago so fairly relevant.
 
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I doubt you employ any. And there is almost no way to make an exception that any decent lawyer couldn't drive a semi through for many other types of employees. Legislatures simply aren't going to put up with all that in an attempt to create an exception for college sports....it would mess up their whole employment law structure.
Your doubt won't save your argument.

The reason lawyers always work for someone else is this line of thinking. Quit thinking about the athletes as having to be employees. It's basically what Michigan and California and other states are doing by letting them profit from licensing their names, etc.

If it is worthy to more adequately compensate revenue generating college athletes, it should be done.
 
It's not an anecdote....LOL. It is a USSC decision.
It's clear you belong to that bureaucratic class of Luddites who think pleated pants are cool. They might be (single pleat, thin frame, sharp cuffs) but you're still probably wearing them wrong.

Like I said earlier, if you agree that D1 football players are probably missing out on some money from the spectacle of college football, there are ways to compensate them. I think that in doing that college football could become more entertaining. To me, more entertaining means more parity. I'd rather see a yearly top 30 group of teams still in the hunt for a national title at the end of November each year than 2 or 3 teams sure to win it.
 
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