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Paul gave a stat, I can't remember if it was record verses top 5 or top 10 teams, but the winning percentage difference between Saban and Dabo was significant! That tells you all you need to know, IMO.
 
And Chad Morris taught Dabo how to run a modern offense, Dabo taught him nothing....

Saban is passing on the Bill Bellichek system of coaching organization that wins in college and the NFL. Glad Muschamp is from that tree....
But they've done better without Chad than with him. Maybe that's worth noting. It's also worth noting that Watson was markedly better than that fellow he replaced - I forget his name now.
 
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Dabo is no Saban and might never be a Saban. However, he has vindicated himself. He is a premier coach, whether we like it or not. It's silly for our fans to discount him when he has out-achieved anything we have ever seen around here. I'd rather concentrate on finding actual ways to beat him. Spurrier is gone and he ain't coming back.
 
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I bet if both coaches were available to be hired right now every school would pick saban.

Wasn't it a Nick Saban and Alabama beat down of a pre-season hyped up and highly ranked Clemson team the reason Tommy Bowden resigned and Dabo was moved into the interim
head coach position that eventually led to him being hired as head coach? Saban was in year 2 of a rebuild coming off a 6-6 season and his unranked Alabama team emerged as one of the top teams of
college football from that game
forward. Clemson was a preseason top 5 team and did not know what hit them.

Dabo has changed over his tenure but I am not sold on his coaching ability but his recruiting is excellent and he is driven to reach goals.
 
Dabo has earned the right to be considered one of the top 10 coaches in America. He has beaten the best (Saban, Meyer, Stoops) in the land to earn that distinction. Having said that, and I am a Clemson fan, what makes Saban and Alabama so incredible is the utter lack of fall off year to year. It is similar to Bowden's run at FSU without the missed kicks which cost Bowden at least 2 National Championships . Clemson will need to continue to win for another 5-6 years at the highest level to begin to be considered on Alabama's level. I would also add that while the SEC gets to hang its hat on Alabama's success that success is double edged sword in that a lot of good coaches have been run off from the conference who's only sin was their inability to beat Saban. No it is not as bad as the FSU dominance of the ACC when they joined but it is not that far off either and it is hurting the conference in my opinion.
 
The comparison is absurd. Saban is a defensive guru, and Dabo knows almost "zero" about X's and O's. Yes...Datboy is a great salesman. Saban is a good recruiter too. They are not even in the same time zone, when it comes to coaching football.
I don't understand how you can win a NC and no almost zero about Xs and Os
 
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I don't understand how you can win a NC and no almost zero about Xs and Os

He knows plenty about his Xs and Os, he just falls into that fallacy in which we overstate something we like, or understate something we don't. Clemson fans (not all of them) claim Dabo is as good as Saban, while Gamecock fans (not all of them) claim he doesn't have a good football brain. Truth is, he is somewhere in between the two.
 
It's like comparing Spieth and Nicklaus. Speith (Dabo) has won at the highest level and has a long career in front of him. But the career is unknown other than potential. Nicklaus (Saban) is the best ever, already proven, many titles.
To even be put in the same sentence with a legend, early in your career, is pretty cool.
Saban has had success at more than one place not so for Dabo. The test will be if he ever leaves Klemzon remember how Ford folded at Arkansas? I can put Saban and Dabo in the same sentence and make it cool too. Dabo ain't no Nick Saban.
 
Saban has had success at more than one place not so for Dabo. The test will be if he ever leaves Klemzon remember how Ford folded at Arkansas? I can put Saban and Dabo in the same sentence and make it cool too. Dabo ain't no Nick Saban.

You have tough, ever-moving standards. Guess with this new definition, we can't consider Tom Osborne or Joe Paterno successful coaches because they never tried their luck at a different school. Lucky for John Wooden he had two seasons at Indiana State prior to UCLA, otherwise he could not be considered elite.
 
You have tough, ever-moving standards. Guess with this new definition, we can't consider Tom Osborne or Joe Paterno successful coaches because they never tried their luck at a different school. Lucky for John Wooden he had two seasons at Indiana State prior to UCLA, otherwise he could not be considered elite.
Have you ever read where Dabo's name is really up for another job? It's nice that you defend Dabo though you should be on his next Christmas card list. Do you really believe Dabo Swinney could follow Nick Saban at Bama and maintain a level to keep the fan base happy? Spurrier and Holtz thought they could coach pro football too and flopped. The Ole Miss job is open they should call Dabo. Nick Saban could go to Yale and win.
 
Dabo may not be a coaching genius, but he's probably the best recruiter in the country and he knows enough about coaching to win a title. I think we got our impression of Dabo when Spurrier beat him 5 straight years......surely he can't be that good right? I just think that Steve Spurrier is probably one of the best game day coaches ever.....if he recruiter a little harder and didn't have one of those "what the heck" games every year he would have had two national titles here.

In any event, we will learn a lot about Dabo's coaching abilities this year. He's been blessed with incredible QBs since 2011 in Boyd and Watson. If he doesn't have a QB this year, can he improvise? I think he comes back to earth a little.
 
Have you ever read where Dabo's name is really up for another job? It's nice that you defend Dabo though you should be on his next Christmas card list. Do you really believe Dabo Swinney could follow Nick Saban at Bama and maintain a level to keep the fan base happy? Spurrier and Holtz thought they could coach pro football too and flopped. The Ole Miss job is open they should call Dabo. Nick Saban could go to Yale and win.

I'm defending logic. I hope Dabo goes 0-12 this year with a 100-0 loss in Columbia.

But I'll give the man his due. Clemson was not an elite job. They did nothing for 20 years.

He is no Saban but it's a ridiculous conversation because of the two decade age difference. And Saban was as unsuccessful in the NFL as Spurrier and Holtz. Totally different animal. Dabo would be a complete failure in the NFL too because he would no longer have a talent advantage and the folksy, aw-shucks stuff would not work there.
 
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The comparison is absurd. Saban is a defensive guru, and Dabo knows almost "zero" about X's and O's. Yes...Datboy is a great salesman. Saban is a good recruiter too. They are not even in the same time zone, when it comes to coaching football.
I don't understand how you can win a NC and no almost zero about Xs and Os

Got news for you...Oz. I know plenty of Clemson people that call him a "CEO" and not a coach. He was an average WR coach. He couldn't call plays, if his life depended on it.
 
I'm defending logic. I hope Dabo goes 0-12 this year with a 100-0 loss in Columbia.

But I'll give the man his due. Clemson was not an elite job. They did nothing for 20 years.

He is no Saban but it's a ridiculous conversation because of the two decade age difference. And Saban was as unsuccessful in the NFL as Spurrier and Holtz. Totally different animal. Dabo would be a complete failure in the NFL too because he would no longer have a talent advantage and the folksy, aw-shucks stuff would not work there.
That makes sense
 
Saban has had success at more than one place not so for Dabo. The test will be if he ever leaves Klemzon remember how Ford folded at Arkansas? I can put Saban and Dabo in the same sentence and make it cool too. Dabo ain't no Nick Saban.
Dabo has nothing to prove - whether he moves or not. Why should he move when he has it made where he is?
 
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At a time when we were beating Clemson like a drum, Clemson was STILL having great recruiting classes. We got fat, content and lost sight of the end goal.

I know different conversation.

Fine Baum is no friend of Clemson or USC. He is just a mouthpiece for Bama. Even the year after we beat Bama he was talking down USC. I called he show once and he would not even admit what the score was.

I hate that he now has a national audience, wish it was someone less bias.
 
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Have you ever read where Dabo's name is really up for another job? It's nice that you defend Dabo though you should be on his next Christmas card list. Do you really believe Dabo Swinney could follow Nick Saban at Bama and maintain a level to keep the fan base happy? Spurrier and Holtz thought they could coach pro football too and flopped. The Ole Miss job is open they should call Dabo. Nick Saban could go to Yale and win.
How many AP Top 10 Power 5 HC have been mentioned for other college HC jobs?
 
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The comparison is absurd. Saban is a defensive guru, and Dabo knows almost "zero" about X's and O's. Yes...Datboy is a great salesman. Saban is a good recruiter too. They are not even in the same time zone, when it comes to coaching football.
I don't understand how you can win a NC and no almost zero about Xs and Os

Got news for you...Oz. I know plenty of Clemson people that call him a "CEO" and not a coach. He was an average WR coach. He couldn't call plays, if his life depended on it.

yep, you're right. I can't believe CU keeps him around because he's had absolutely nothing to do with the success of that team.
 
Jimbo Fisher, Tom Herman, Justin Fuente, and Mike Macintyre were all linked to the LSU job. Several articles stated the Jimbo was offered nearly $7 mil per year.

Ol' Jimbo is a darn good coach. I don't blame LSU for trying to land him. He really knows how to develop QBs.

Questionable ethics when it comes to player discipline, but one of the best game day coaches and recruiters around.

Can't wait to see Jimbo vs. Saban opening weekend in the new ATL stadium, following a Carolina victory in CLT.

Can football season hurry up and get here please? I'm tired of talking about Dabo and ready to talk about real games.
 
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Ol' Jimbo is a darn good coach. I don't blame LSU for trying to land him. He really knows how to develop QBs.

Questionable ethics when it comes to player discipline, but one of the best game day coaches and recruiters around.

Can't wait to see Jimbo vs. Saban opening weekend in the new ATL stadium, following a Carolina victory in CLT.

Can football season hurry up and get here please? I'm tired of talking about Dabo and ready to talk about real games.

Agreed. I really think FSU will beat Bama week 1. Mobile QB's have always given them fits. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see FSU make the CFP this season.
 
It seems many Clemson fans are comparing Datboy to Saban. They're ignoring several major facts, including that Saban has a well established coaching tree, and many top tier Universities have hired/promoted former Saban staff members. I'm certainly not a Clemson expert, but the only coach I can think of that was hired away is Morris.
Saban is considered one of the greatest football minds in the country. Dabo has had success building a program, but he isn't regarded as a great football mind. Saban has built, and found success, at every college football program he's been a part of. I'm no Bama fan, nor do I wave the SEC flag, but comparing the two is laughable. I hate agreeing with Pawwl, jack!
Dabo had two very successful seasons and was lucky to win at least six games and the sheephumpers think they have built the thousand year reicht. Dabo won't last as long as Hitler. In five years the Tillman fanbase will be wanting to get rid of him after Richt, Fisher, Fuentes, Petrino, and Muschamp start laying the wood on his mouthy little ass.
 
It's like comparing Spieth and Nicklaus. Speith (Dabo) has won at the highest level and has a long career in front of him. But the career is unknown other than potential. Nicklaus (Saban) is the best ever, already proven, many titles.
To even be put in the same sentence with a legend, early in your career, is pretty cool.
before Watson, what had Dabo really done other than win a bunch of ACC games when the ACC was really bad. Lets see what kind of coach he is when the Auburn Tigers roll in to Pickens county . My money will be on Auburn.
 
Jimbo Fisher, Tom Herman, Justin Fuente, and Mike Macintyre were all linked to the LSU job. Several articles stated the Jimbo was offered nearly $7 mil per year.
Fisher has long been unhappy with the FSU admin as well amid a nasty divorce where his wife cheated on him with one of his players. Nonetheless, he stayed put because FSU is a better job than LSU at the present. Herman and Fuente are up and comers and were not at Power 5 schools when courted. Macintyre is at Colorado but not in the top 10, plus there are a lot of HC jobs better than Colorado. In all seriousness, there are not a lot of jobs that are better than where he is. DS does not have the long proven history to be a candidate at the few jobs that are better such as (Bama, OSU, USC, etc)
 
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The comparison is absurd. Saban is a defensive guru, and Dabo knows almost "zero" about X's and O's. Yes...Datboy is a great salesman. Saban is a good recruiter too. They are not even in the same time zone, when it comes to coaching football.
I don't understand how you can win a NC and no almost zero about Xs and Os

Got news for you...Oz. I know plenty of Clemson people that call him a "CEO" and not a coach. He was an average WR coach. He couldn't call plays, if his life depended on it.
Click to expand...
yep, you're right. I can't believe CU keeps him around because he's had absolutely nothing to do with the success of that team.


Where did I say he had NOTHING to do with Clemson's success? I said he's a great salesman and has recruited some top shelf talent. From a "coaching" standpoint, he's had very little to do with it, except for hiring assistants that could coach the game. Taters are fooling themselves, if they think Dabo is anywhere near the level of Nick Saban.
 
Maybe this doesn't prove that he's not an "X's and O's" type of guy, but the shovel pass during the Pitt game couldn't be stopped. Dabo/Venables made zero defensive adjustments to prevent that play, even though everyone in the house knew it was coming. I will give them credit for shutting it down for the rest of the season, but they did nothing to slow it down against Pitt.
 
Maybe this doesn't prove that he's not an "X's and O's" type of guy, but the shovel pass during the Pitt game couldn't be stopped. Dabo/Venables made zero defensive adjustments to prevent that play, even though everyone in the house knew it was coming. I will give them credit for shutting it down for the rest of the season, but they did nothing to slow it down against Pitt.
That's one of Klipzun's weak points. If you can catch them by surprise during the game they don't respond well. To win teams have to out coach them during the game.
 
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Fisher has long been unhappy with the FSU admin as well amid a nasty divorce where his wife cheated on him with one of his players. Nonetheless, he stayed put because FSU is a better job than LSU at the present. Herman and Fuente are up and comers and were not at Power 5 schools when courted. Macintyre is at Colorado but not in the top 10, plus there are a lot of HC jobs better than Colorado. In all seriousness, there are not a lot of jobs that are better than where he is. DS does not have the long proven history to be a candidate at the few jobs that are better such as (Bama, OSU, USC, etc)

So, why ask someone to name another top 10 power 5 coach that had been offered another head coaching job, if you just going to excuse it all away. You can give whatever excuses you like about why Jimbo decided to stay at FSU, but it doesn't change the fact that he was courted by LSU. The names I gave were just off the top of my head, but there could be others. I don't care that much to look them up.
 
In other words, you're predicting another black eye for the SEC.

I will only be cheering for FSU in 1 game this season and it's not the season opener. I think FSU is going to be very, very good. Jimbo has out recruited Datboy every year he's been at FSU so the roster is loaded with talent.
Our upset of NC State will be a bigger black eye for the ACC, IMO.
 
The comparison is absurd. Saban is a defensive guru, and Dabo knows almost "zero" about X's and O's. Yes...Datboy is a great salesman. Saban is a good recruiter too. They are not even in the same time zone, when it comes to coaching football.

I seriously doubt someone who coached for gene stallings, (part of the bear Bryant coaching tree) who has experienced the highest level of success, knows nothing about X's and O's. He played and coached for Alabama, which is regarded as one of the better football educations a player can get.

If all you needed to win national championships was a good salesman, then teams would be going after Ron Popeil or Billy Mayes. You need more than that.

If you mean that he was never an offensive coordinator than the answer is yes. If you want to judge, however, many of the sec west coaches never received a good football education in college. High freeze didn't even play football in college, and many of the other coaches played for small unknown colleges.

Btw, I don't think anyone is delusional enough to compare sabans accomplishments to Dabos. Saban already is regarded as one of the top 5-15 all time college coaches and he's still not done. He also has a 15 year head start on swinney, though.
 
Saban has had success at more than one place not so for Dabo. The test will be if he ever leaves Klemzon remember how Ford folded at Arkansas? I can put Saban and Dabo in the same sentence and make it cool too. Dabo ain't no Nick Saban.

So by your rule if a coach chooses to stay and build one program, and wins a lot of games there, but decides to retire at that one institution he is not as strong of a coach as those who have been to multiple stops?. I have to disagree there. Tom Osborne and bobby Bowden were fantastic coaches who built the brand of one program only. They don't need to prove it anywhere else.
 
I will only be cheering for FSU in 1 game this season and it's not the season opener. I think FSU is going to be very, very good. Jimbo has out recruited Datboy every year he's been at FSU so the roster is loaded with talent.
Our upset of NC State will be a bigger black eye for the ACC, IMO.
I think not.
 
So by your rule if a coach chooses to stay and build one program, and wins a lot of games there, but decides to retire at that one institution he is not as strong of a coach as those who have been to multiple stops?. I have to disagree there. Tom Osborne and bobby Bowden were fantastic coaches who built the brand of one program only. They don't need to prove it anywhere else.
There are also the ones who left one school then failed at another? Having success at one doesn't mean it will carry over to the next like I said ask Danny Ford. Ford took over a program Charlie Pell cheated to the top then he crashed at Arkansas when he had to work. I'm not talking about building one program I mean could they do it twice.
 
There are also the ones who left one school then failed at another? Having success at one doesn't mean it will carry over to the next like I said ask Danny Ford. Ford took over a program Charlie Pell cheated to the top then he crashed at Arkansas when he had to work. I'm not talking about building one program I mean could they do it twice.
So do you consider Bobby Bowden and Tom Osborne unproven? Are they not among the great college coaches because they didn't do it at 2 schools?
 
So by your rule if a coach chooses to stay and build one program, and wins a lot of games there, but decides to retire at that one institution he is not as strong of a coach as those who have been to multiple stops?. I have to disagree there. Tom Osborne and bobby Bowden were fantastic coaches who built the brand of one program only. They don't need to prove it anywhere else.

I think it is more impressive to rebuild several programs vs. one. It doesn't take away from the guy that built one program, but it certainly seems more difficult to rebuild more than one.
 
So do you consider Bobby Bowden and Tom Osborne unproven? Are they not among the great college coaches because they didn't do it at 2 schools?
That is not what the point. The point was that Dabo has a goal mine where he is and you couldn't run him off with a stick. Bowden and Osborne, using your examples, had great teams but if either had come to USC would the greatness come with them or are they then be out of then comfort zone? I simply don't believe Dabo could go to another school and have the same success. Dabo is getting a lot of "outside" help at Blemson he ain't no genius. How would he do at Ole Miss?
 
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