So it begins....

[USCBatgirl21]

Pretty certain the game operations manual states that players will stand still during the National Anthem. It doesn't state anything else (i.e. Sing, place hand over heart, etc), but it does require standing.

Actually it says "should", meaning they do not have to.

 

[DC-99]

Pull their pants up get a education and then get a job work hard and don't break the law and this will take care of all these things. Good living and good jobs and financial prosperity are not given they are earned for EVERBODY. All this is a bunch of bull grow up and be responsible. I am a white male and I have been stopped by police before for nothing talked hard to by police and you know what I did What they told me to the first time it is the law if you don't like this country go somewhere else

Your klan robe is hanging out...

 

[Scuba_do]

No. He's exactly right. I hate it for you (and others) that reality so easily dodges your grasp.

In fact, I back Sulay's entire statement 100%!!! I guess perhaps that he I simply see reality from a different perspective here in Charlotte.

Not my place to educate you. But I assure you, they indeed have a legit complaint. Question their tactics all you wish, but I promise you that they're methods, while questionable indeed, are directed/restricted due to their limitations.

I would love to see one of you who believe the "kneelers" have a legitimate complaint post a list of specific things that we "football watching" folk who live on then wrong side of history, can do to fix whatever problem they are kneeling for. Someone must have an answer. And it has to be specific and can't just be "stop incarcerating black men at a disproportionate rate".

 

[bosoxcock]

I would love to see one of you who believe the "kneelers" have a legitimate complaint post a list of specific things that we "football watching" folk who live on then wrong side of history, can do to fix whatever problem they are kneeling for. Someone must have an answer. And it has to be specific and can't just be "stop incarcerating black men at a disproportionate rate".

That's not the way protest works, they are protesting police brutality against people of color and hope the protest can send a message to the whole country and hence changes will be made and you "football watching" folk can still watch NFL football anytime its on.
...and there's been some great games recently

 

[colacock#]

Yes, a bunch of armchair patriots and angry old codgers will be on the wrong side of history again, being scared of the future and thinking their country only belongs to some of us and that the other people are destroying it. Welcome to the history of America.

I hope our entire team kneels and makes everybody put there money where there mouth is, even though we won't see the team kneeling in the locker room.

^^^THIS all day long!^^^ 100% right Sulayman! If they start that in college football, I'll do it with them!

 

[DC-99]

I would love to see one of you who believe the "kneelers" have a legitimate complaint post a list of specific things that we "football watching" folk who live on then wrong side of history, can do to fix whatever problem they are kneeling for. Someone must have an answer. And it has to be specific and can't just be "stop incarcerating black men at a disproportionate rate".

Please elaborate as to why a growing number of people are offended by these SILENT PROTESTS. And it has to be specific and can't just be "they are disrespecting the flag/anthem".

 

[fftar]

This^^^^^

And to add, an NFL player started the protest for his reason. A few others joined thereafter. Nothing much more until President Trump weighed in with the "right message" but "wrong delivery." Then, the NFL all "protested" as a form of "team unity" not inequality of justice. They had to stand as a team to show unity as they win/lose as a team - so they said. However, this week NFL players (on the same team) stood, kneeled, stayed in the locker room, etc. Well, there goes their "team unity" argument. And, some even showed they are racist by raising their fist during the anthem - I view a Nazi salute and the Black Panther/BLM salute as the same - a racist symbol since both recognize the power of a specific race.

Now, few on this board or across America actually know the crime statistics which are reported to, compiled and reported by the FBI. I would advise those that don't know the statistics to do research and not rely on antidotal jibberish that is spewed constantly to support the narrative of the respective commrntator (on either side). However, no minority in any country has the freedoms that ALL citizens in the U.S. have. Those freedoms were fought for and defended since before this country was a country.

All citizens in the U.S. have equal opportunity at birth. Individuals ultimately choose the individual opportunity. Granted, some are born with an "easier" opportunity than others, but that is primarily driven more by class standing in this country than by race. I gaurantee that Jay Z and Beyoncé's children, while black, have a much greater opportunity, than many whites, hispanics, etc. And, yes, one can reverse that statement across any race. That is why, while opportunity is equal, a greater advantage is driven by social class not race. I am not a sociologist, however, I have read many studies that point to social determinants such as single family homes, unwed mothers, community influence (crime, drugs, etc), etc. have more to do with opportunities being squashed than any overt government effort to hold a race down compared to another.

As for police brutality, I don't buy it. Are there "bad cops" - I am sure there are, but to paint a "broad brush" across all police is inappropriate. Police have,arguably, one of the toughest jobs in our country. They are paid a relatively low wage for the job they do. I firmly believe that each police officer wakes up every day hoping/praying that they come home to their families ever evening rather than waking up trying to figure out how the are going to take down a black subject that day. Typically, but maybe not always, it is how ANY subject responds to law enforcemrnt as to how they are likely to be treated. Police officers must react and react quickly at times. Therefore, it is best to abide to law enforcement instructions. In most cases, it is for the subject and the officer's safety. If one feels they are still subject to police brutality, then file a complaint. An example is Michael Bennet and his claim of police brutality in Vegas. Claim was investigated and determined to be unfounded. He was actually uncooperative resulting in the Vegas PD to apprehend him until they could resolve the situation. If he would have complied with law enforcement instructions as they requested, he likely would not have be apprehended.

Back to the NFL, they have no "right to protest" the Anthrm on company time without suffering any consequence the the coach or owner may place on them. They do have a "right to protest" on their own time, which to my knowledge none of them actually have, which I find interesting. And then still, is the inequality they profess to protest really valid or just antidotal?

For the record, I was born within a lower middle class family. I joined the military out of high school, worked hard, went to school and obtained two degrees. I had a very successful military career and have been successful since retiring. I was determined to capitalize on the opportunties that I was afforded many of which came from just doing hard work and doing my best. Led many sailors that had a disadvantaged background and always took pride in watching them become successful too - and it didn't matter their race. We fought together and all bled red.

It's amazing to me to see the tone deafness of posts like this. Do you people not understand how ridiculous it is in a free democratic society to try and force people to act a certain way for the national anthem? It's bad enough to do that anywhere but at a sporting event? Where are we? Russia? China? Are we controlled by ISIS? Ridiculous.

 

[Sulayman]

I would love to see one of you who believe the "kneelers" have a legitimate complaint post a list of specific things that we "football watching" folk who live on then wrong side of history, can do to fix whatever problem they are kneeling for. Someone must have an answer. And it has to be specific and can't just be "stop incarcerating black men at a disproportionate rate".

Listen to what they say and stop accusing them of hating America, hating our flag and hating our soldiers. That is specific and would be a great start.

 

[bosoxcock]

It's amazing to me to see the tone deafness of posts like this. Do you people not understand how ridiculous it is in a free democratic society to try and force people to act a certain way for the national anthem? It's bad enough to do that anywhere but at a sporting event? Where are we? Russia? China? Are we controlled by ISIS? Ridiculous.

When the POTUS is trying to tell a private business how their employees should act, it shouldn't come as a surprise

 

[Scuba_do]

Listen to what they say and stop accusing them of hating America, hating our flag and hating our soldiers. That is specific and would be a great start.

Dude, re-read my post and tell me where I accused anyone of hating America, hating our flag or soldiers. I believe I was just stereotyped.

 

[Cackdiesel]

Listen to what they say and stop accusing them of hating America, hating our flag and hating our soldiers. That is specific and would be a great start.

Everyone is aware of their concerns. Now, who do we listen to? I've seen no one go any further than you have here.

 

[Scuba_do]

Please elaborate as to why a growing number of people are offended by these SILENT PROTESTS. And it has to be specific and can't just be "they are disrespecting the flag/anthem".

Because I tend to set high standards on those things I pay for. If I purchase a boneless steak, I don't want bones in it. If I pay to watch football, I don't want to see political expressions that I oppose. Maybe the football players will extend the season a few weeks and do nothing but kneel so those of you who support it can tune in just to watch the kneeling. Thanks for asking.

 

[Sulayman]

Everyone is aware of their concerns. Now, who do we listen to? I've seen no one go any further than you have here.

Nobody is actually listening to them. They are saying the protestors are wrong. They are saying the protestors are being spoiled brats in a country that allowed them to become rich athletes, so they should be thankful for their freedom, instead. They are saying the protestors are misguided and hate America, the flag and our soldiers. It seems to me that almost nobody who is anti-protest takes the protestors' concerns seriously, yet somehow, a huge portion of our country thinks the concerns are serious. That is just my opinion.

 

[Sulayman]

Because I tend to set high standards on those things I pay for. If I purchase a boneless steak, I don't want bones in it. If I pay to watch football, I don't want to see political expressions that I oppose. Maybe the football players will extend the season a few weeks and do nothing but kneel so those of you who support it can tune in just to watch the kneeling. Thanks for asking.

Sorry, your party is getting ruined. I hope you will be okay.

 

[Cackdiesel]

Nobody is actually listening to them. They are saying the protestors are wrong. They are saying the protestors are being spoiled brats in a country that allowed them to become rich athletes, so they should be thankful for their freedom, instead. They are saying the protestors are misguided and hate America, the flag and our soldiers. It seems to me that almost nobody who is anti-protest takes the protestors' concerns seriously, yet somehow, a huge portion of our country thinks the concerns are serious. That is just my opinion.

All they're doing is kneeling. Some of them are kneeling for different reasons. Do they have a spokesperson? Who is it that they want us to listen to? You can't just kneel and expect your problems to be solved.

 

[Sulayman]

All they're doing is kneeling. Some of them are kneeling for different reasons. Do they have a spokesperson? Who is it that they want us to listen to? You can't just kneel and expect your problems to be solved.

Of course not, but if you do it long enough and ruffle enough feathers then people WHO DO NOT WANT TO LISTEN TO YOU have no choice but to listen to you. Again, I'm sorry if your enjoyment a few hours every weekend is being ruined. I hope you'll be okay.

 

[TheReelEss]

BLM is F'd up no doubt. But in being blunt here, your average brotha and sista, lacking the financial means to favorably defend themselves, coupled with the fact that they, despite being numerically smaller in regards to the overall population count, are more apt to find themselves 1.) More likely under suspicion. 2.) Financially unable to afford affective defense, and 3.) Making up a larger portion/percentage of the prison system than any other race within these continental United States.

Just stating facts. Nothing personal there homey. =;-p

But just don't be a felon carrying a book (gun), smoking weed and refusing to drop the book (gun) when confronted by police and expect to go home and sit down to dinner like nothing happened. Don't be the guy who just shoplifted and attacked the cop who tried to take him into custody. I know things have happened that didn't need to, but don't be the one cops are being called to and then blame the whole country.

https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-09-29/race-and-homicide-in-america-by-the-numbers
http://www.nationalreview.com/artic...t-black-men-rare-heres-what-data-actually-say

I'll take these protests seriously when they're being held in Chicago and they're protesting black-on-black murders, not the American flag or national symbols. 92% of black homicides are committed by blacks. Where's the outrage? People never like to see the problem rests mostly in their own back yards with the illegitimacy rate, divorce rate, grandparents raising children, the government replacing the father. I live in Lancaster County. I have no exact data, but I'm certain there have been at least 10 shootings in the past year, probably more. Every one a black-on-black situation, except for one black-on-white and one black-on East Indian. Not one involved a cop in any way. Blaming the police isn't going to help this issue or make it go away.

It wouldn't take a village if the parents just did their jobs. But government is more than happy to step in and make people dependents because dependents are very loyal voters. So who is keeping people on the lower rungs of the social ladder?

 

[Cackdiesel]

Of course not, but if you do it long enough and ruffle enough feathers then people WHO DO NOT WANT TO LISTEN TO YOU have no choice but to listen to you. Again, I'm sorry if your enjoyment a few hours every weekend is being ruined. I hope you'll be okay.

I haven't watched an NFL football game outside of the Superbowl in years. I think this whole thing is hilarious, personally. NFL football players have no ability to ruin my weekend. I'll ask you again, WHO DO THEY WANT PEOPLE TO LISTEN TO?

 

[fftar]

When the POTUS is trying to tell a private business how their employees should act, it shouldn't come as a surprise

Not surprised considering the current state of affairs but still amazed that the same people that would tell you our freedom as Americans is our most important virtue.... but they're good w someone forcing you to stand for the national anthem. These people don't understand what they are saying or they do understand and just don't mind being hypocrites.

 

[Cackdiesel]

Not surprised considering the current state of affairs but still amazed that the same people that would tell you our freedom as Americans is our most important virtue.... but they're good w someone forcing you to stand for the national anthem. These people don't understand what they are saying or they do understand and just don't mind being hypocrites.

Do you think its okay for the government to force workers to do other things that they might not believe in? I agree that the government shouldn't force anyone to stand for the flag btw.

 

[fftar]

Do you think its okay for the government to force workers to do other things that they might not believe in? I agree that the government shouldn't force anyone to stand for the flag btw.

Such as???

 

[Cackdiesel]

Such as???

Such as anything. I don't want to hijack the thread and get it locked. Just seems like government intrusion is private business is okay sometimes and not okay in other cases.

I'm all for telling the government to go to hell in all cases.

 

[TheReelEss]

Do you think its okay for the government to force workers to do other things that they might not believe in? I agree that the government shouldn't force anyone to stand for the flag btw.

I agree with your sentiment, whole-heartedly. But I wonder if the players who've protested think we need to watch them play football. It's a fundamental misunderstanding on their parts that they think they're providing us a service that we can't do without. They were providing us escapist entertainment that turned into political discourse. I get that crap all week long on the news. I can go fishing, watch a movie or read a book and avoid politics.

 

[DC-99]

Because I tend to set high standards on those things I pay for. If I purchase a boneless steak, I don't want bones in it. If I pay to watch football, I don't want to see political expressions that I oppose. Maybe the football players will extend the season a few weeks and do nothing but kneel so those of you who support it can tune in just to watch the kneeling. Thanks for asking.

Oh, I see. You are the 'send my food back' guy... How about this, champ, if you want to watch the 1pm game, wait until 1:15 to tune in. Problem solved.

 

[Cackdiesel]

I agree with your sentiment, whole-heartedly. But I wonder if the players who've protested think we need to watch them play football. It's a fundamental misunderstanding on their parts that they think they're providing us a service that we can't do without. They were providing us escapist entertainment that turned into political discourse. I get that crap all week long on the news. I can go fishing, watch a movie or read a book and avoid politics.

Maybe they think entertainment is our right as American citizens. I think the government should get involved and make NFL football games more accessible for everyone. Maybe look at lowering the cost of tickets and the salaries of the people providing those services. Its not fair that some of us have access to the entertainment they provide and others don't. Greedy ole' football players.

 

[fftar]

Such as anything. I don't want to hijack the thread and get it locked. Just seems like government intrusion is private business is okay sometimes and not okay in other cases.

I'm all for telling the government to go to hell in all cases.

I'll need a specific example. As a general rule I think this country should not force anyone in public or private enterprises to act in a certain manner regarding politics or religion.

 

[bosoxcock]

Not surprised considering the current state of affairs but still amazed that the same people that would tell you our freedom as Americans is our most important virtue.... but they're good w someone forcing you to stand for the national anthem. These people don't understand what they are saying or they do understand and just don't mind being hypocrites.

a private business and the owner of that business can force you to stand in this case.
but when the POTUS tells a private company how their employees ought to act that is disturbing and dangerous

 

[Anna_Nimmitty]

I live in Lancaster County.

Umm. Hate that for ya!! =;-p

York, Mecklenburg and Union outclass LA by a couple decades by far!! Trust me, been there, done that, don't wanna go back!!

But I do respect your entire point within that book of a post. It's valid (i.e. your post/points) no doubt.

WADR

A_N

 

[fftar]

a private business and the owner of that business can force you to stand in this case.
but when the POTUS tells a private company how their employees ought to act that is disturbing and dangerous

It's disturbing also if your employer says, "hey guys, we're gonna start playing the national anthem at 8am every morning. And if you are not there and acting in an appropriate manner you will be disciplined".

That's really disturbing.

 

[TheReelEss]

I

Umm. Hate that for ya!! =;-p

York, Mecklenburg and Union outclass LA by a couple decades by far!! Trust me, been there, done that, don't wanna go back!!

But I do respect your entire point within that book of a post. It's valid (i.e. your post/points) no doubt.

WADR

A_N

I don't live in the city of Lancaster or its school area. If I did, I would move to raise kids. I respect your respect. Although my company is based in Mecklenburg and I'm not sure I would include it in your assessment. JMO.

 

[bosoxcock]

It's disturbing also if your employer says, "hey guys, we're gonna start playing the national anthem at 8am every morning. And if you are not there and acting in an appropriate manner you will be disciplined".

That's really disturbing.

no problem with the owner requiring employees, don't agree with it, but their right to do so.
...you also have the right to quit

 

[Cackdiesel]

It's disturbing also if your employer says, "hey guys, we're gonna start playing the national anthem at 8am every morning. And if you are not there and acting in an appropriate manner you will be disciplined".

That's really disturbing.

No one is forcing anyone to work for the employer.

 

[fftar]

no problem with the owner requiring employees, don't agree with it, but their right to do so.
...you also have the right to quit

You can't say you have "no problem w it" and then say "you don't agree w it".

We get the argument of it is the owners right (although I would love to see this specific point argued in court as I don't believe it has). Not sure it is a slam dunk.

And working in the NFL can't be compared to a regular job as a car salesman, for example, where you can just quit your job if you don't like it and move to the dealership across the street. There ain't no USFL no more.

But the larger point I'm making is the absurdity in America to FORCE such a thing. We aren't controlled by ISIS or the Taliban for crying out loud.

 

[Heyward1]

Yes, a bunch of armchair patriots and angry old codgers will be on the wrong side of history again, being scared of the future and thinking their country only belongs to some of us and that the other people are destroying it. Welcome to the history of America.

I hope our entire team kneels and makes everybody put there money where there mouth is, even though we won't see the team kneeling in the locker room.

Awwww your fewins hurt??

 

[anon_n4c0cp5zhdxn7]

Nobody is actually listening to them. They are saying the protestors are wrong. They are saying the protestors are being spoiled brats in a country that allowed them to become rich athletes, so they should be thankful for their freedom, instead. They are saying the protestors are misguided and hate America, the flag and our soldiers. It seems to me that almost nobody who is anti-protest takes the protestors' concerns seriously, yet somehow, a huge portion of our country thinks the concerns are serious. That is just my opinion.

I could be wrong but is seems like you are mistaking "listening" to them with "agreeing" with them. Personally, I disagree with what they are saying and how they are saying it. Just my opinion, and right.

 

[USCrown]

I am proud to be an American, and I take pride in my country. Yeah we have our problems, but so do other places. If we actually unite, and instill pride in our future generations, then we could see a great change. With that said, I do believe there is a movement globally to bring America down, and it starts with dividing it's people from the inside. The old adage of divide and conquer is being displayed right before our very eyes. One of the easiest ways to do it is by race. The really crazy thing is that while people from all sides are pointing the finger at each other, they don't realize that we are all in the same boat. It is not race, but wealth that is growing at a huge disparity, and if you are not one of the "haves," then you are one of the "have nots." This whole race thing is a distraction while we are being robbed blind financially and morally.

Unless you are one of the 1%ers that continue to make exploding profits, you are in the same boat with the rest of us.

I am about as patriotic as the come. I come from a long lineage of military background, with many who served voluntarily and non-voluntarily. I believe in respecting the flag and veterans, but most importantly I believe in preserving the constitution which provides our rights as americans. One of those rights is the freedom of speech, and freedom to protest. Let's not get all on a high horse about the national anthem and veterans, when in fact the truth is that we respect it/them when it is convenient, and we don't when it is not. Look at the conditions many of our veterans find themselves in today, yet we scream about disrepect, etc....Enough of my rant, as I could go on...



I get the frustration from both sides, and I don't always agree with how things are done. But the whole point of a protest is to get people to start talking. If we listen and acknowledge an issue, maybe then we can move forward towards a solution.

 

[bosoxcock]

You can't say you have "no problem w it" and then say "you don't agree w it".

We get the argument of it is the owners right (although I would love to see this specific point argued in court as I don't believe it has). Not sure it is a slam dunk.

And working in the NFL can't be compared to a regular job as a car salesman, for example, where you can just quit your job if you don't like it and move to the dealership across the street. There ain't no USFL no more.

But the larger point I'm making is the absurdity in America to FORCE such a thing. We aren't controlled by ISIS or the Taliban for crying out loud.

Sure you can:
We agree in life with a lot of things and disagree with some of them.
Ex. I agree that a woman should have the right to an abortion.... but I disagree with her having the abortion
instead of "no problem", should've said owners have "right "to require

 

[fftar]

Sure you can:
We agree in life with a lot of things and disagree with some of them.
Ex. I agree that a woman should have the right to an abortion.... but I disagree with her having the abortion

The point is you DO have a problem w it (forcing people to act a certain way for the national anthem). You think it's the owners right but you DO have a problem w it.

 

[bosoxcock]

The point is you DO have a problem w it (forcing people to act a certain way for the national anthem). You think it's the owners right but you DO have a problem w it.

I edited my previous post...I believe in the" right "

nope they own the team

 

[fftar]

I edited my previous post...I believe in the" right "

nope they own the team

"Believe in" meaning you think owners can and should be able to force acting in a certain way for the national anthem or "believe in" as they can do it by law but you don't like it.

I think you mean the latter which means you agree it's ridiculous to do that in a free country.