So UT finishes 4th in the East after being favored to win, loses to us & Vandy, & somehow Butchie is
- Thread starter psycock
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Lost 10 years in a row to their rival Alabama as well, being outscored 351-119 during that time.
Butch is a good spinner like Dabo was early on, when he had limited success to work with
"It's very difficult to win in the SEC," Jones said. "We're only one of three teams to win nine games two years in a row in the Southeastern Conference. We just won our third consecutive bowl game, which hasn't been done in 20 years at the University of Tennessee."
Question: Coach, considering the last season and the fact that you guys were a top 10 team and only finished 9-4, 22nd overall, do you view that last season as a disappointment?
Jones: I don't view it as a disappointment. The way I view it is we didn't accomplish everything we set ourselves out to. And, again, our goal every year is to win a championship and compete to win a championship. So, was it a disappointment? No. Did we not accomplish some of the things we set out to do? Absolutely. We have to learn from the things that went wrong that we could have done better.
Butch is a good spinner like Dabo was early on, when he had limited success to work with
"It's very difficult to win in the SEC," Jones said. "We're only one of three teams to win nine games two years in a row in the Southeastern Conference. We just won our third consecutive bowl game, which hasn't been done in 20 years at the University of Tennessee."
Question: Coach, considering the last season and the fact that you guys were a top 10 team and only finished 9-4, 22nd overall, do you view that last season as a disappointment?
Jones: I don't view it as a disappointment. The way I view it is we didn't accomplish everything we set ourselves out to. And, again, our goal every year is to win a championship and compete to win a championship. So, was it a disappointment? No. Did we not accomplish some of the things we set out to do? Absolutely. We have to learn from the things that went wrong that we could have done better.
Atta boy Butch you keep the faith. You sound like a used car salesman.
I truly despise Tennessee as a program, I've never been fond of Knoxville or that entire trashy state in general, and Butch Jones' BS spin drives me crazy with his "Champions of Life" garbage or saying that the first step in winning championships is competing for them, claiming his team has done so when clearly they have not.
That said, if you look at it objectively, the program is in much better shape today than when he took over. UT had experienced 4 losing seasons in 5 years prior to his arrival and their only winning season was 7-6. By year two under Jones, he had them back in a bowl game, and since then, they've posted consecutive 9-win seasons and returned to the national rankings. And last year was arguably their best so far under Jones, so things are still trending upward. They got crushed by Bama, but were competitive against everyone else and finally beat Florida. Overall, it's still not what they want or expect, but it's an improvement vs. the Dooley years or even the last few under Fulmer. Their scandals and off-field shenanigans seem to have tapered-off as well. So, other than Butch being on the hot seat, I can understand why they would seem credible to recruits. It's still a big-time program with a proud history and enormous fan support. Plus, other than Bama, most of their rivals have their own set of question marks.
Knoxville ain't that bad. I used to do a lot of work for/with several branding/imaging companies up there. K-ville is alright. Wouldn't wanna live there, but it beats the hell outta Asheville, NC and say Charleston WV in regards to a mountain type town. JMHOFWIW, but I've had a few good times in Knoxy. Now as far as Memphis and Nashville go, you can have that sh_t! Butch Jones?? He just "jonesin'" to become important. He ain't. He won't. As far as UT in general?? kinda reminds me of Auburn - they'll do anything they can to win as much as possible on on a football field. A.N.Y.T.H.I.N.G.
you gotta fake it till you make it. dabo was a pro at this.
I hit the damned enter button as I was typing that dude! Typical of your type. Now, am I right or wrong in the ACTUAL F'ING QUESTION????
Absolutely. He persevered and they persevered with him. They knew he could get enough players up there to win their division much of the time and they couldn't fire him. Finally, the inability to get rid of him paid off for them. It's the most perverse success story in the history of college football. Nothing else even comes close.
As for UT, when we can get to nine wins three years in a row and win bowl games all of those years - and they remain stuck below the level to which they aspire, then I'll start chunking stones at them.
I understand the sentiment... but the original post was not about throwing stones, but a question about recruits. And clearly right Jones has convinced some good recruits that they have a good opportunity there. Can Muschamp do the same?
Tenn has lost 3 of the last 5 to instate rival Vandy, Vandy scored 45 pts last year
Better at WHAT than Asheville? I am calling Bs on Kville being better than Asheville in any way- It is a run down trailer park compared to Asheville.
I used to love Asheville, but the homeless problem is worse than in any city in the nation per capita. I'll take Knoxville anyday. Except for the orange problem.
That's actually a pretty ridiculous view. He won the ACC in his 3rd year. He won a BCS bowl in his 5th year. It's frankly idiotic to characterize that as "they couldn't fire him" or being an "inability to rid of him." That's not faking it. That's simply success. You would be jumping for joy if Muschamp could "hang on" like that.
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You lost to your rival five years in a row and suffered the worst loss in bowl history. There are places where that combination would have gotten a person fired. You know it and I know it. But at the time, UPC wasn't important enough to get away with firing him. More established powers would have.
Aside from the nicer parts of Nashville, I find the entire state of TN to be a dump. I don't really have anything against TN fans, as they generally seem like decent folks. But I encountered numerous faculty and administrators on that campus who were either super arrogant or unethical, and the place is boring, dreary, and most of the people you encounter seem very unhappy. Heck, just driving through that state affects my mood. The moment we cross into GA, KY, AL, etc. it instantly seems nicer.
As for Butch, I'm certainly not a fan. He is so unbelievably fake, I don't know how anyone takes him seriously. I'm just pointing out that the program has actually improved since he arrived. The improvement has been modest and it may be that he can't take them any further than he already has. But they are in better shape today than they were under Dooley or the last few years under Fulmer.
That's once again an idiotic statement. Clemson had no problem getting rid of Bowden, and Tommy West before him, but somehow "couldn't" get rid of Dabo? That's again simply ridiculous. I'll point out again, Dabo won the ACC in his 3rd year. He won a BCS bowl in his 5th year. It's kind of funny how you claim this resume would have gotten Dabo fired at other places, yet this thread has been about Butch Jones keeping his job at Tennessee, while doing a lot less than Dabo.
No doubt money does get paid to these players. Some places more than others. But if you don't believe it happens then not sure what to tell you. I'm sure it happens here as well The schools themselves probably aren't doing it but it goes on
Jones is on a short leash but demonstrably better than Dooley. UT is a legacy program going back to the 1920s that has been losing big to it's most important rival. Bowden was easy to fire. How many times did Bowden win the ACC before he started losing to the Dukes and Wake Forests of the world ? Plus there was the smirky arrogance and the program was trending downward. He made it possible for the more personable and persuasive Dabo to keep his job despite the disturbing losses. They couldn't fire another coach so soon after Bowden. It's so elementary I don't see how you don't recognize it.
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Im not sure hoe you can compare Butch and Dabo. I hate Clemson but he has been kicking ass winning games and recruiting since day 1.
Now in the 90s when Fulmer was coach Tenn. was a juggernaut, ive almost felt sorry for them until i think of all the games we lost to them.
I will say this. The SEC is more fun when UT is good. When they are good the East is more fun and respected and our win against them will feel so much better
Now in the 90s when Fulmer was coach Tenn. was a juggernaut, ive almost felt sorry for them until i think of all the games we lost to them.
I will say this. The SEC is more fun when UT is good. When they are good the East is more fun and respected and our win against them will feel so much better
Not comparing Butch to Dabo. Theoretically comparing Dabo's early saga at UPC to a congruent hypothetical experience were he at certain legacy programs. He would not have made it.
Asheville reminds me of West End in Greenville 44 years ago. Now, West End is a great place to live, work, visit or whatever. But to me Asheville is just a run down town full of bums and weirdos.
You're not looking at it objectively. You are looking at it as a Carolina fan who just doesn't like Dabo and Clemson.
What you said for Butch Jones holds true for Dabo. Tennessee was pretty bad in the under Dooley, and not too great a the end of Fulmer's term. Well, it's similar with Dabo. Bowden underachieved at Clemson (sort of like Dooley), and Dabo came in and immediately did better (sort of like Butch). I'll point out yet again, Dabo won the conference in year 3, and won a BCS bowl in year 5. That's not barely hanging on to your job. That's a hell of a lot better than what Butch has done at a legacy program like Tennessee.
Too bad the facts don't support your theory. I'll give you one example: John Cooper at Ohio St. Here are Cooper's results in his first 5 years:
4-6-1
8-4 lost bowl
7-4-1 lost bowl
8-4 lost bowl
8-3-1 lost bowl
The guy had average seasons, lost all his bowl games, never won the conference, and was 0-4-1 against Michigan. So let's see how this stacks up in your comparison with Dabo. Embarrassing bowl failure, check. Losing to main rival, check. Yet, Cooper kept his job, for 8 more years. This is Ohio St, one of the blue bloods of college football. This guy had all the failures you said would get Dabo fired at a bigger program, yet the guy didn't get fired. This is also without the level of success Dabo had either. Face it, your theory just doesn't hold up.
The fact that a thread about Butch Jones turns into a Tater pissing contest reminds me why I don't like any team that wears ORANGE.
Well, the guy DID get fired, and a loss to us was the last nail in the coffin. But he never had the worst loss in bowl history. For all we know, had that happened, he might have been gone sooner. I'd say my theory is intact. And as I said, I wasn't the one drawing parallels between Dabo and Butch. It was between Dabo and a theoretical coach in a hypothetical situation in any of a number of legacy programs.
He got fired after 13 years. According to what you said, he shouldn't have survived past year 5, with the resume he had. Yet he did. "For all we know" is irrelevant. What we DO know is that he started off at Ohio St having 5 average seasons, losing all 4 bowl games, and never beating Michigan. According to your theory, that should have been grounds to fire him right there.
Your theoretical comparison is contradicted by ACTUAL situations at legacy programs. Theoretical situations don't matter when these scenarios have been tested in actual situations.
