This past year saw Shawn Elliot leave to the joy of some ( I personally thought he was a great coach but had no support recruiting top talent until Muschamp came in) . Then Frank martin got the basketball team to the final four so any who complained could no longer do so unless they looked really, really ridiculous. Finally Holbrook is gone, who I am not saying is not the right decision but still was the brunt of alot of gamecock fan ire. So now, we have Muschamp who looks to be turning things around, Frank who had team in final four, Dawn who won national title, and will have a new baseball coach who hopefully all will be behind. So who does that leave? It wouldnt be the FGF without some wanting some coach fired. Is it Berson(men soccer)? Softball coach? Or maybe a football team manager? Just curious. Or will we finally be satisfied for a while? Which is what I hope
So who will gamecock fans go after now to fire?
- Thread starter CCUIrmo
- Start date
So what's wrong with fans wanting a coach fired that isn't producing? Especially a baseball coach who inherited a gold mine.
Are we to just accept floundering and mediocrity?
Cracks me up how people can play both sides of the fence.
Holbrook needed to go, so Tanner did his job and removed him from the program. Now we move on and support our teams and coaches.
Are we to just accept floundering and mediocrity?
Cracks me up how people can play both sides of the fence.
Holbrook needed to go, so Tanner did his job and removed him from the program. Now we move on and support our teams and coaches.
You're right. This entire thing was about appeasing the unruly fans-nothing to do with incompetent coaching. Word is Ray checks the FGF before making any executive decisions.
What EXACTLY ARE you saying ?
We got rid of Elliott and u said u thought it was the right move.
We got rid of Holbrook and u said u thought it was the right move.
Why are u complaining about anyone wanting them fired?
If one of your kids "isn't producing" do you fire them from the family or stick with them? I realize there's a line to be drawn somewhere but it just appalls to see the way some people here operate with zero loyalty. Win, win, win, the second you don't I hate you, you were never any good anyway, get out of here ASAP. Regular life doesn't work that way...people have ups and downs and you can't make a knee jerk reaction every time.
In before "he gets paid a lot of money to take the heat!!"
All you need is one team not live up to its expectations and the "Fire Him" chants will come out in force.
If Muschamp has the same season as last year ( or worse ) then a portion of the fan base will get more disenfranchised. After last year what if Martin doesn't make the tournament, it wouldn't be fair, but I wouldn't be surprised if a portion of the fan base turned on him as well.
Again, it all goes back to expectations, even if they are not reasonable.
If Muschamp has the same season as last year ( or worse ) then a portion of the fan base will get more disenfranchised. After last year what if Martin doesn't make the tournament, it wouldn't be fair, but I wouldn't be surprised if a portion of the fan base turned on him as well.
Again, it all goes back to expectations, even if they are not reasonable.
Seriously how long have you been a Carolina fan? We have a long history of overpaying coaches for underperforming. It's okay for the fanbase to have expectations. I'm sorry Chad's departure still has you upset.
I think there is the odd fan that sees a team struggle and wants to see a coach to get fired. The majority of Gamecock fans are patient as long as they see progress from year to year. That's not what happened with Holbrook.
Laughable. And you can see from my join date I've been around at least a decent while.
Maybe I'm making the mistake of thinking some posters here act the same way in real life. They'd be miserable to know if so. I just don't like someone who's mentality is "fire someone" every time something goes wrong. Doesn't match up with my theory of people and how things work.
did you just compare firing a coach that was failing at his job, to kicking your child out of his home!!!???
I realize that and maybe I'm picking the wrong "hill to die on." My complaints ITT definitely extend to more than just this situation. Just the general attitude of never being satisfied and always criticizing, pretending you are always right and everyone else is wrong even in situations where you have 1% of the information they do. So a general critique of the irrationality of sports fans I suppose
Yeah and the next sentence was "I realize there's a line to be drawn"did you just compare firing a coach that was failing at his job, to kicking your child out of his home!!!???
You'll get vociferous response to this question if we lose on September 2nd. The nature of fans these days is do this after every loss in a major sport.
Yeah everyone wanted Chad Fired during his second season.. NOT!!! he took a National Powerhouse program with back to back national Championships, to Not even sniffing the tournament. he had six years, but i agree if in six years the football team is worse than when Muschamp took over, he should be fired..
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So you're okay with competing (and winning) national titles in baseball to not making the tournament? He just needed more time right? Were you upset when Sparky Woods or Darrin Horn got let go too?
Regardless of intelligence level, fans will be fans. Some good, some bad. That doesn't just pertain to Gamecock fans, it's in every fan base on every team.
You don't ever think it's a little crazy on here to read average internet posters' opinion that seriously think they know more than people like Ray Tanner? A legend of his game, paid 6-7 figures, decades of experience, and one of our school's greatest sports heroes? Meanwhile they're a salesman or an IT guy or a construction worker or whatever. That just strikes me as frustratingly ignorant.
Of course Darrin Horn sucked. I get annoyed by the revisionists who dishonestly pretend like they knew it from day 1, or want to tell everyone they told them so back when he lost to so and so. They really didn't know and if they did they wouldn't be sitting here posting with us...
Most fans like me are willing to be patient with Muschamp. He inherited a mess-unlike Holbrook. Frank has gotten us to the final four-he's proven what he can do.
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I don't claim to know more than Ray. But guess what? He decided to release Chad like many fans had hoped. Accept it.
I have accepted it sir! If you read my above posts/quotes you'll see I admitted Holbrook wasn't getting the job done and that my comments ITT extend more to in general than the present situation.
My thing the whole time was Ray knows what to do with Holbrook. Instead of freaking out day by day I trusted him with the decision. Granted you can't always do this in every situation but being this came to baseball, yeah I was 100% fine with trusting Ray.
Todd Ellis or Mark Berson are always solid choices.
I'm not a chef but I can tell you when the food sucks.
We just have to look at the big picture! Hire a proven winner, ideally a collegiate baseball HOF coach, one who can take us to the CWS at least every 3rd year, never had a losing season in 22 years at a major school, experienced, yet in great shape for his age..... wouldn't have to break the bank to hire because he's already got money, well respected in the profession, with numerous coach-of-the-year awards. Voila! Jack Leggett!
Fair point but could you say what needed to be done to make it better? In greater detail than a group of highly paid chefs who have studied food much longer and more closely than you?
My point is, many people will scream for change at the drop of a hat and sometimes it is not warranted. You dont have to agree with me but if you look on this forum enough you will see one post after another complaining about something. Read the post again, some of you, I did not say Elliot should go, I said I thought he was a good coach but some wanted him gone so bad. Time will tell if that was a good move. he left on his own. Just the other day someone on here was complaining about Frank martin not getting the transfers and that he was not making the most of the final four run. That was absolutely absurd!!!!!!! ( I think it was king ralph or whoever saying that). I did say that perhaps Holbrook going was warranted as the team did not produce. However, some wanted him gone before we even knew what type of season we were going to have. The overall point is that if we want change every time something doesnt go right, then and ONLY THEN will we live in complete mediocrity. Changing for the sake of change or wanting change because it isnt going your way, is a recipe for failure. We need more support of coaches and less tearing them apart every time we get unhappy. Then again we live in a society where if our kids get a bad grade or get in trouble at school, then we blame the teacher or administrator, it is never our kids fault. So I guess we can complain all day behind the safety of a computer screen but thankfully we have people in charge who know what they are doing. Lets just enjoy the ride and support teams and coaches. Some comments on here are absolutely stupid and clearly some of you read what you want. I guess me making this post proves my point as well. To many on here want to just cry and complain all day and have others accept and support it. Man that has to be a miserable life.
Grow up. If you work for a company, and don't produce, you get fired. Coaches get paid a butt load of money to produce. It's not like CH inherited a dumpster fire and had to completely rebuild. Five years is enough to know where he was taking the program. As for Elliott, I appreciate his enthusiasm for USC, but his lines were mediocre at best.
It's fans like you that have held us back for so many years, accepting mediocrity. I damn sure wouldn't want you running any business I owned or I was invested in because apparently you have a hard time controlling your emotions. You can't keep around an employee that underperforms because "he's a nice guy" . I bet you cried your eyes out when Brad Scott was fired.
I disagree. That is our usual pattern and the way USC has operated like forever, hire the old coach, safe hire yet he doesn't have the drive or passion to recruit anymore and is only a band aid because he will retire in 5 years because of age.
We need to do like the big time programs do. Go after the youngest, hottest coach that is energetic , chip on his shoulder ready to recruit.
Like Florida and Billy Donovan type of hire. We need to get them young like we did Tanner. He was only 38
Some wanted Holbrook gone before the season played out because they had been watching the product on the field and saw very little if any positives for several years now... namely fundamentals and mechanics. Wins could have saved him, but again because of the product on the field that was highly unlikely. To some, wins aren't enough. If they were to make the playoffs and make a little run, where would we be next year? Good chance we'd be a team lacking in fundamentals and mechanics trying once again to scratch out a good season. As for Martin, I wouldn't put him on the same page as Holbrook. Martin has shown (albeit slow for some) improvement. He also didn't take a world class program and turn it mediocre. If you look at our past in basketball though, skepticism is not unwarranted. I'll agree with you that some people will always be miserable and forever critical. That's just the way some people are. But we all love the University and wants what's best. Having critics is about all the common ground there is between Holbrook and Martin. Everything else is polar different. That's why the get the big bucks.
What does International Telephone and Telegraph have to do with this discussion?
It's my job to teach my kids. It's not the school or fans' job to teach the coach how to coach. He needs to know that or learn that on his own. This is a business, and when an employee is a serial offender not doing his job properly, you let him go. You don't keep him on the payroll. It's my job to get a job done. My employees have a responsibility to get their job done. While I can be loyal to under performers, that is not cost effective in the long run and will eventually lead to those people getting laid off.
Elliot was not mediocre. He did what he could while surrounded by incompetence for a couple of years. I do always want whats best for this school and athletics and really wanted Brad Scott gone but again, you are not reading the intent of the origional post. We always want someone fired and are never satisfied unless we complain but I guess by reading your posts, it is clear you already have your list of who to fire. Yes there are some that need to be fired or let go. Heck, I was one of the loudest about Deke Adams while he was here. THAT was incompetence. However, it seems if something goes bad just one time, then it is time for that coach to go. Deke proved it over ad over, Chad did show he was not bext for the job, but there are other coaches who are pretty darn good but yet we still want someone else because we think that is who will take us to the top. Didnt alot want Tanner fired? Look what happened there? Didnt alot want Frank fired? Look what happened there. The point is, dont look for someone to get fired just because you want to have something to complain about. If that is the case then ALL of us would be fired quite quickly.
If only we would do the same to teachers, whose job is WAY more important than an athletic coach. I have a 15 yr old daughter and believe me, there are some teachers who have no business being there. My Mom was a teacher/assist principal and she would work with many teachers that did just the bear minimum. Yet somehow they keep their jobs for years. Why is it we scream for coaches to be fired for underperforming but if a teacher underperforms, we let it go as long as our kid gets a passing grade. I have the highest respect for teachers and think they have one of the most important and difficult jobs there is. They deal with parents attacking them when the kids are usually at fault, they dont always have support from administration and school officials,and they work as hard as they can. however, there are some that have no business being there but we let it slide. Coaches have to go though. they can be great at making good young men and women but if no W's then they have to go. Others though, in other fields of work, can be mediocre at best and keep their jobs even if they way underperform. Maybe we need to start treating all jobs like we do coaches. Then, maybe we have a better world around us
The butthurt is STRONG with that one. Don't bother trying to make sense with him. He loved Holbroke.
But then we wouldn't be the recipients of these gems on a regular basis!
I agree.. My younger children are home-schooled because the public school system in general has let us down badly.
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Sure...You can target a Mark Berson or a Todd Ellis. They catch lots of grief in this forum. I'd rather target the pseudo-gamecock fans. They spend their posts, defending the Clemson Athletic Department in this forum. You're worse than a House Tater!
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