Sometimes, officiating makes watching bball unenjoyable

92Pony

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I flipped over to the UF vs Ky basketball game last night, looking for something to watch. I wasn't pulling for either team; just taking it in as a casual observer (so I really had no bias with regard to how officiating went in this game). Shortly after tuning in, this play happened...... This was Outback Bowl Michigan 1st-down bad. A foul was called on the UF player on the play at the basket. The UK player went to the line and got two shots.
Bball officiating is seemingly consistently inconsistent, and it's maddening. The UF player took it in stride though. You gotta give it to the kid!



(BTW, there is audio there - from the TV. It's really low but if you turn it up you can hear the announcers, shocked that the foul was called there)
 

kidrobinski

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I have the same perspective. Its as if the officials feel a need to participate instead of officiate; basketball lends itself to subjective and anticipated "fouls" waaaaay too much.
 
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Gamekem

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It's very frustrating at times, there's so many anticipation calls and/or bias calls when it comes to thicker/taller players getting more physical contact against them with no calls. At this point I really just look for the officiating to be equally bad for both sides for me to be satisfied. I really wish coaches weren't fined for calling out refs for their mistakes.
 

Bubbaglide

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Sylva says h
It's very frustrating at times, there's so many anticipation calls and/or bias calls when it comes to thicker/taller players getting more physical contact against them with no calls. At this point I really just look for the officiating to be equally bad for both sides for me to be satisfied. I really wish coaches weren't fined for calling out refs for their mistakes.
Silvia says hello. He got called for more anticipated fouls than anyone. Valentine is among the worst. He is like Ron Cherry
 
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Gamecock Lifer

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BS subjective fouls are ruining the game. They need to take subjectivity out of the equation when at all possible. If it is not an obvious hack- it should not be called!
In FB they have to do something about HOLDING and PI!!
 
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midline

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But basketball has nobody to blame but themselves. They let the game get away from them. The physical play underneath is never called. Palming is committed on most every possession. The magical "euro step". It's walking, but because it is the vogue thing to do it is never called. They don't enforce enough of the rules anymore, so of course it seems inconsistent. I wish they would decide to call the games by the basketball rules. Yea, some fouls are tricky tacky, but they are fouls.
 

92Pony

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But basketball has nobody to blame but themselves. They let the game get away from them. The physical play underneath is never called. Palming is committed on most every possession. The magical "euro step". It's walking, but because it is the vogue thing to do it is never called. They don't enforce enough of the rules anymore, so of course it seems inconsistent. I wish they would decide to call the games by the basketball rules. Yea, some fouls are tricky tacky, but they are fouls.
Yep! Palming on every possession! Remember when a guy went to the floor with the ball and squirmed with it, that was traveling?? Now it’s a free-for-all and looks more like a scrum at the 30yd line than a basketball game. And yeah; eurostep, extra three steps and a pirouette......
 

92Pony

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But basketball has nobody to blame but themselves. They let the game get away from them. The physical play underneath is never called. Palming is committed on most every possession. The magical "euro step". It's walking, but because it is the vogue thing to do it is never called. They don't enforce enough of the rules anymore, so of course it seems inconsistent. I wish they would decide to call the games by the basketball rules. Yea, some fouls are tricky tacky, but they are fouls.
Oh, and hanging on the rim used to = a technical foul...
 
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adcoop

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But basketball has nobody to blame but themselves. They let the game get away from them. The physical play underneath is never called. Palming is committed on most every possession. The magical "euro step". It's walking, but because it is the vogue thing to do it is never called. They don't enforce enough of the rules anymore, so of course it seems inconsistent. I wish they would decide to call the games by the basketball rules. Yea, some fouls are tricky tacky, but they are fouls.
You do know NBA, College, and High School Rules are different especially around the traveling call. For example, you can shoot an air ball, go get it and it’s not necessarily traveling in High School ball. In the NBA doing that same thing is a travel. There are also differences in the traveling rules with regard to when the ball is gathered. In High School and College, you basically get a step and a half as your steps begin as the ball is picked up. In the NBA, you get the gather step and the count of 2 steps does not begin until the ball is in your hands. Therefore, according to NBA rules a well-executed Euro-step is legal. The issue begins when the interpretation of these rules gets twisted on the different levels. For example, some refs on the High School level let you get away with the Euro-step while some do not. Most people interpret the rules based on the level they happen to watch.
 
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Neanderthal

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There is no traveling in the NBA. You can do whatever you want. Remember the video of Harden taking 7 steps before a jump shot? No call. Remember the player carrying the ball from in-bounds catch to almost mid-court? Just walking up the court carrying the ball like a baby. No call. NBA is not basketball. Pat Riley said the fundamentals in the NBA are at an all time low.
 

Gamecock Lifer

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Yep! Palming on every possession! Remember when a guy went to the floor with the ball and squirmed with it, that was traveling?? Now it’s a free-for-all and looks more like a scrum at the 30yd line than a basketball game. And yeah; eurostep, extra three steps and a pirouette......
Oh, and hanging on the rim used to = a technical foul...

No offense but these are just “get off my lawn” concerns IMO- palming is still a foul, so is traveling, and so is hanging on the rim- they are all just called less and allowed within reason, AS SHOULD ALL FOULS BE. The ticky tack hand checks and made up subjective shot fouls where they wait to see if a shot goes in before making the call- those are a problem.

The vast majority of times guys hang on a rim it is to protect themselves and the guus under them- that is why it is not called often. If a guy is wide open, nobody around and goes overboard hanging on the rim to rub it in, they will still call it.. If a guy moves his pivot foot, travel is called immediately. If he is driving to the basket and takes 2.5 steps instead of two, they let it go... The rolling around on the ground thing is situational- if he posese the ball and is SLIDING across the floor= travel. If he is stationary and two guys are battling for it, they are more inclined to let it go..

None of that slows the game down, puts the focus on the refs or inhibits the fair playing of the game and reasonable ability to enjoy it- indefensable subjective BS calls on EVERY PLAY, make the game virtually unwatchable and take the ability to win or lose a game out of the hands of the players and puts that power in the hands of the guys who should be there TO HAVE NO CONTROL OVER OR IMPACT ON THE OUTCOME OF THE GAME- THE REFS. Basketball is broken, I can barely even watch it now.
 

adcoop

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No offense but these are just “get off my lawn” concerns IMO- palming is still a foul, so is traveling, and so is hanging on the rim- they are all just called less and allowed within reason, AS SHOULD ALL FOULS BE. The ticky tack hand checks and made up subjective shot fouls where they wait to see if a shot goes in before making the call- those are a problem.

The vast majority of times guys hang on a rim it is to protect themselves and the guus under them- that is why it is not called often. If a guy is wide open, nobody around and goes overboard hanging on the rim to rub it in, they will still call it.. If a guy moves his pivot foot, travel is called immediately. If he is driving to the basket and takes 2.5 steps instead of two, they let it go... The rolling around on the ground thing is situational- if he posese the ball and is SLIDING across the floor= travel. If he is stationary and two guys are battling for it, they are more inclined to let it go..

None of that slows the game down, puts the focus on the refs or inhibits the fair playing of the game and reasonable ability to enjoy it- indefensable subjective BS calls on EVERY PLAY, make the game virtually unwatchable and take the ability to win or lose a game out of the hands of the players and puts that power in the hands of the guys who should be there TO HAVE NO CONTROL OVER OR IMPACT ON THE OUTCOME OF THE GAME- THE REFS. Basketball is broken, I can barely even watch it now.
I agree with everything you said except the last paragraph. Basketball at the highest level is a tough game to ref. This is especially true when people are always going to instant replay and there is a two minute report detailing every mistake made in a critical moment (last two minutes. There are going to be some anticipatory calls in basketball. Always has been. You just didn’t get to watch and replay every play of every game 30-40 years ago like you do now. I actually think the officiating is better and there is more accountability. LeBron James gets nowhere near the star calls that MIchael Jordan did and I say that still thinking MJ is the greatest player of all time. Jordan was paying refs back then for off-season runs. So, who do you think was going to get the call when things got tight? The league was lax on that until that Tim Donaghy gambling scandal. Most people in this thread are obviously not NBA fans. So, they just don’t know the history of things and what’s going on now.
 
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adcoop

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You can slide on your backside with the basketball. Thats not traveling.
The funny thing about this issue though is that many people that complain about traveling in basketball seemed to have no problem with Robert Parish and Kevin McHale (two of the most egregious offenders of the traveling rule of all time) doing it when it helped Larry Bird win. Going back even earlier, Cornbread Maxwell got away with a lot of uncalled traveling violations too. This usually comes up with fans when the team they happened to root for didn't win.
 
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Bubbaglide

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The players are so much more athletic than ever before. The speed and power of even the college game is greater than the Magic/Jordan era. It is difficult to call some stuff but some things like traveling and palming are easy to call.
 

adcoop

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The players are so much more athletic than ever before. The speed and power of even the college game is greater than the Magic/Jordan era. It is difficult to call some stuff but some things like traveling and palming are easy to call.
Palming is one of those tick-tack rules that I think should be called only when someone gets their hand totally under the ball. One thing that is different about the college and professional games is that one has a teaching component while the other has an entertainment component. Nobody wants to see a ref call 4 or 5 palming calls in a professional game. If it affects the defenders ability to defend, okay call it. Otherwise, let the guys play.
 

Bubbaglide

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Palming is one of those tick-tack rules that I think should be called only when someone gets their hand totally under the ball. One thing that is different about the college and professional games is that one has a teaching component while the other has an entertainment component. Nobody wants to see a ref call 4 or 5 palming calls in a professional game. If it affects the defenders ability to defend, okay call it. Otherwise, let the guys play.
I think it does affect the defenders ability to defend. By my own admission, I rarely watch Pro Ball. If flipping through channels, I might watch a few minutes, if Steph, Antetokumpo or Zion are playing. The athletes are so good they have taken a lot of the strategy out of the game. I prefer the college game. That aside, Palming IS one of the rules, as is traveling. If they are not going to call it, take it out of the rules. I agree, nobody wants to see the ref getting more face time on tv than the players or injecting themselves in the outcome. The best refs in any sport are those which go unnoticed during the game.
 
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titaniumspur

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The players are so much more athletic than ever before. The speed and power of even the college game is greater than the Magic/Jordan era. It is difficult to call some stuff but some things like traveling and palming are easy to call.
This. The players are so quick that the refs can’t make the right call in real time. By the time the refs brain processes what happened, it’s too late, but the ref wants to make it right. So what gets called is a back and forth of make up calls.
 

adcoop

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I think it does affect the defenders ability to defend. By my own admission, I rarely watch Pro Ball. If flipping through channels, I might watch a few minutes, if Steph, Antetokumpo or Zion are playing. The athletes are so good they have taken a lot of the strategy out of the game. I prefer the college game. That aside, Palming IS one of the rules, as is traveling. If they are not going to call it, take it out of the rules. I agree, nobody wants to see the ref getting more face time on tv than the players or injecting themselves in the outcome. The best refs in any sport are those which go unnoticed during the game.
I am totally different. I love the strategy of stopping or slowing down the very best. Antetokounmpo is a two time MVP. However, he has glaring holes in his game that have been exposed in the playoffs. Zion is good, but he still has a way to go on the defensive end and rebounding the ball. It's fun for me to see a Steph or a LeBron always figure out the junk defenses that get thrown their way in attempt to stop them. I like the game on all levels, but I get frustrated with college players and below because you become conditioned that a player will hit a wide open 3 pointer at least half of the time when you watch a lot of pro ball. One of the the things I had to learn in coaching was to simplify the game because everyone is not going to be able to read the game on a high level.