Still like Martin's progress

[sandlapper59]

For those who come on here after each loss to scream about firing Martin, a look at some other coaches should be in order. Mike Krzyzewski won an average of 13 games in his first three seasons at Duke. In the middle of his fourth season, there was some really vicious "get rid of him" activity going on among Duke supporters and alumni. Fortunately the Duke AD stayed with him. How has that worked out for them?

I don't know if FM can come close to duplicating that as USC but I am willing to stay the course for several more years to find out. Can't be any worse than our record of starting over every few years for a couple decades. There were a couple of minor exceptions like Eddie but, for the most part we have not been any good.

There were several instances of our players hesitating when they should have made a quick move to the basket but, after having the ball jammed down your throat again and again by KY giants, I thought that was understandable. I thought they played with good effort and we were soundly beaten but not embarrassed.

 

[psmith5532]

I'm still all in...they just need to find a player who can consistently shoot from outside. Other teams can pack the inside knowing we can't shoot the three. I like their defense but for Gods sake, someone step up and hit some 3s.

 

[dcdayday]

I wonder how good the team would be if Temarcus Blanton and Sheppard had not gotten injured. Also if Thompson not got arrested before he was set to enroll in school.

 

[wcocat]

Agree. Think he's making progress. It's a long climb out of the hole Horn dug. That was dreadful hire by Hyman. Hope he makes another one just like it when the current A&M football coach eventually departs for NFL.

 

[jerryusc]

I like his progress, his passion, his relationships with his players, the way he represents the university, etc. It's great to have a coach that dislikes losing as much as he does skipping a meal. I don't want a coach who just shurgs his shoulders when USC loses. Give me fire and brimestone everytime.
FM is MBB SS. He will make a winner here and all of us rah rah posters will say.............................and we will be justified.

 

[cockhornleghorn]

I agree; anyone who gives up in year three is either very young or hasn't followed Carolina Basketball for very long. 2 things tell me that Frank is an excellent coach: his teams are better at the end of the season than at the beginning and they improve from year to year. I can think of another coach, namely Dawn Staley, who's teams also improve from year to year. Any questions?

 

[Gamecock Lifer]

Originally posted by dcdayday:
I wonder how good the team would be if Temarcus Blanton and Sheppard had not gotten injured. Also if Thompson not got arrested before he was set to enroll in school.

Isn't Shepard back healthy now?

 

[dcdayday]

Sheppard is back but he's not 100%.

 

[pepsicock]

They play hard and play good defense. I have no problem with Martin. We just need outside shooting .

 

[4thgengamecock]

Originally posted by Gamecock Lifer:

Originally posted by dcdayday:
I wonder how good the team would be if Temarcus Blanton and Sheppard had not gotten injured. Also if Thompson not got arrested before he was set to enroll in school.

Isn't Shepard back healthy now?

He's cleared to play, but isn't likely to have many minutes until late in the year. He's got a lot of catching up to do to catch up with everyone else, and probably still needs to put in some work to get himself physically conditioned for substantial minutes. He'll get there, eventually.

 

[1vagamecock]

Don't know if Martin is a good coach or not,but the players we have now seem to have maxed out their potential.
We have to get shooters in the next few classes to progress any further.

 

[sanfordcock]

I would have agreed about a month ago. Now I'm not so sure I'm seeing progress.

 

[chick75]

Still in his corner as well. **

GOCOCKS! BEATTAM! BEATLSU!

 

[Rollerdude123]

Re: Still in his corner as well. **

I don't see the progress.

and we are staring 1-6 in the SEC in the face if we lose to LSU (on the road) Wednesday night.

 

[ipull4usc]

There hasn't been enough progress on the court to be happy with year 3 under Martin. An occasional great game or one big upset win in a year does not signify progress.

However, Martin is recruiting much better than the Horn was. Dozier and Silva are nice talents that are going to be pieces of the puzzle, although I do not believe they will make us an NCAA tourney team next year. We still need pure shooters, as the team currently has none and Dozier is a drive and dish type, not a shooter.

Hopefully Dozier and Silva can get us to around .500 in SEC play next year and a possible NIT team. If we are able to bring in Seventh Woods the following year and some other talent, perhaps we will be an NCAA team then.

We still have a very long way to go to be competitive. The results on the floor are not encouraging, but hopefully the upgraded recruiting will eventually result in Wins. I'm rooting for Martin, and despite the abysmal results so far, I still have hope.

 

[prizerooster]

Originally posted by sandlapper59:
For those who come on here after each loss to scream about firing Martin, a look at some other coaches should be in order. Mike Krzyzewski won an average of 13 games in his first three seasons at Duke. In the middle of his fourth season, there was some really vicious "get rid of him" activity going on among Duke supporters and alumni. Fortunately the Duke AD stayed with him. How has that worked out for them?

I don't know if FM can come close to duplicating that as USC but I am willing to stay the course for several more years to find out. Can't be any worse than our record of starting over every few years for a couple decades. There were a couple of minor exceptions like Eddie but, for the most part we have not been any good.

There were several instances of our players hesitating when they should have made a quick move to the basket but, after having the ball jammed down your throat again and again by KY giants, I thought that was understandable. I thought they played with good effort and we were soundly beaten but not embarrassed.

Has'nt won more than 14 games yet and we aint the ACC. Cant seem to win when its all his kids. Staying the coarse for several more years will only put you behind several years. Think About it for a second. If I'm a UT fan I feel pretty good about my coach. If I'm a GA fan I feel pretty good about my coach. Get it?

 

[Palmetto1984]

Our team today is better today than when FM got here, Our team plays good D, they play with effort. Our problem is we have a bunch of role players trying to be "go-to" guys. We have some better talent coming in next year so if we continue to bring in talent and our players continue to play with this same effort we will continue to improve. I admit it is taking longer than I had hoped to this point, especially when you compare our guys program with our girls program. We are not far off from being a pretty good team. One or two scorers would help a lot and hopefully they are coming in next year.

 

[1977 Cat]

That's the attitude SC needs to have to build their basketball program. Frank Martin is the guy.

Originally posted by sandlapper59:
For those who come on here after each loss to scream about firing Martin, a look at some other coaches should be in order. Mike Krzyzewski won an average of 13 games in his first three seasons at Duke. In the middle of his fourth season, there was some really vicious "get rid of him" activity going on among Duke supporters and alumni. Fortunately the Duke AD stayed with him. How has that worked out for them?

I don't know if FM can come close to duplicating that as USC but I am willing to stay the course for several more years to find out. Can't be any worse than our record of starting over every few years for a couple decades. There were a couple of minor exceptions like Eddie but, for the most part we have not been any good.

There were several instances of our players hesitating when they should have made a quick move to the basket but, after having the ball jammed down your throat again and again by KY giants, I thought that was understandable. I thought they played with good effort and we were soundly beaten but not embarrassed.

 

[prizerooster]

Originally posted by Palmetto1984:
Our team today is better today than when FM got here, Our team plays good D, they play with effort. Our problem is we have a bunch of role players trying to be "go-to" guys. We have some better talent coming in next year so if we continue to bring in talent and our players continue to play with this same effort we will continue to improve. I admit it is taking longer than I had hoped to this point, especially when you compare our guys program with our girls program. We are not far off from being a pretty good team. One or two scorers would help a lot and hopefully they are coming in next year.

Screw the girls program, the baseball program and anything else that does'nt pay the bills. They ARE the bills. Our BB program is NOT better than the Horn years. It's the same except for the last year when we were 10-21. It's the ****ing same folks.

 

[yeasos]

He is building it and it takes time. I do think we need some hot shot shooters signed up. Go Cocks!!!

 

[atl-cock]

Originally posted by prizerooster:

Originally posted by Palmetto1984:
Our team today is better today than when FM got here, Our team plays good D, they play with effort. Our problem is we have a bunch of role players trying to be "go-to" guys. We have some better talent coming in next year so if we continue to bring in talent and our players continue to play with this same effort we will continue to improve. I admit it is taking longer than I had hoped to this point, especially when you compare our guys program with our girls program. We are not far off from being a pretty good team. One or two scorers would help a lot and hopefully they are coming in next year.

Screw the girls program, the baseball program and anything else that does'nt pay the bills. They ARE the bills. Our BB program is NOT better than the Horn years. It's the same except for the last year when we were 10-21. It's the ****ing same folks.

There's more to a varsity sports program than each individual sport paying its own way. One has to think that the USC BOT, the administration, and the athletic department is aware of this. Hence, the school will continue to sponsor golf, tennis, swimming/diving, volleyball, track & field, etc.

A true Gamecock fan pulls for ALL varsity teams to do well and represent USC well, even if the fan has no particular interest in an individual sport and does not follow that sport.

 

[Palmetto1984]

Originally posted by prizerooster:

Originally posted by Palmetto1984:
Our team today is better today than when FM got here, Our team plays good D, they play with effort. Our problem is we have a bunch of role players trying to be "go-to" guys. We have some better talent coming in next year so if we continue to bring in talent and our players continue to play with this same effort we will continue to improve. I admit it is taking longer than I had hoped to this point, especially when you compare our guys program with our girls program. We are not far off from being a pretty good team. One or two scorers would help a lot and hopefully they are coming in next year.

Screw the girls program, the baseball program and anything else that does'nt pay the bills. They ARE the bills. Our BB program is NOT better than the Horn years. It's the same except for the last year when we were 10-21. It's the ****ing same folks.

So you think we could have beaten teams like Oklahoma st. or Iowa st. in FM first year here? The answer is no. We have gotten better as a team. Offensively? not so much. Defensively? yes. Our D did hold the #1 ranked team to one of their lowest point totals of the season. I guess to the casual fan who doesn't know much about basketball wouldn't be able to tell. So its ok.

This post was edited on 1/25 7:47 PM by Palmetto1984

 

[ReadR00ster]

The only player I can see that has actually been playing that hasn't gotten better is Carerra. People seem to forget that we lost our leading scorer from the year before. We are getting better, it's not likely going to show in the record. If you don't like that, too bad for you. I am not sunshine pumper. If I thought we weren't getting better I'd say it.

This post was edited on 1/25 9:51 PM by ReadR00ster

 

[pepsicock]

Originally posted by ipull4usc:
There hasn't been enough progress on the court to be happy with year 3 under Martin. An occasional great game or one big upset win in a year does not signify progress.

However, Martin is recruiting much better than the Horn was. Dozier and Silva are nice talents that are going to be pieces of the puzzle, although I do not believe they will make us an NCAA tourney team next year. We still need pure shooters, as the team currently has none and Dozier is a drive and dish type, not a shooter.

Hopefully Dozier and Silva can get us to around .500 in SEC play next year and a possible NIT team. If we are able to bring in Seventh Woods the following year and some other talent, perhaps we will be an NCAA team then.

We still have a very long way to go to be competitive. The results on the floor are not encouraging, but hopefully the upgraded recruiting will eventually result in Wins. I'm rooting for Martin, and despite the abysmal results so far, I still have hope.

Remember the first year under Martin 2 key players transferred . Everybody seems to forget that

 

[chick75]

And I repeat: Still in his corner. **

GOCOCKS! BEATTAM! BEATLSU!

 

[Rollerdude123]

The only thing that matters is the record - outside of that is just opinion.

I thought we might be getting better- but when I watched the Auburn and Tenn games, I realized we weren't.





Originally posted by ReadR00ster:

We are getting better, it's not likely going to show in the record.


This post was edited on 1/25 9:51 PM by ReadR00ster

 

[ReadR00ster]

Originally posted by Rollerdude123:

The only thing that matters is the record - outside of that is just opinion.

I thought we might be getting better- but when I watched the Auburn and Tenn games, I realized we weren't.





Originally posted by ReadR00ster:

We are getting better, it's not likely going to show in the record.


This post was edited on 1/25 9:51 PM by ReadR00ster

100% horsecrap. Win or lose you are getting better if you play better basketball and it's OBVIOUS by anyone who knows anything about basketball that this team is playing better than the last two years, especially when we are not almost completely relying on Brison Williams to shoot to give us hope to win. I am not guessing, I just know the difference between what decent and crappy basketball looks like and you apparently don't.

This post was edited on 1/25 11:40 PM by ReadR00ster

 

[ToddFlanders]

I like Martin's progress so far (mostly because it's the first progress in the upward direction the program has had in seven years). However, please stop with the Coach K analogy (and this goes for every coach that has a slow start to his career).

Yes, arguably the greatest basketball coach of all time was able to turn things around after three pedestrian years to start his career at Duke. But he did that because HE'S ARGUABLY THE GREATEST COACH OF ALL TIME. For every hall-of-fame coach that has a tough couple of years before they turn things around, there's 100 coaches that didn't cut it and never turned it around (Darrin Horn comes to mind and he should have been fired after year 3).

Again, I like Martin's progress so far, but Coach K's career has no bearing on, or similarity to, Martin's career.

 

[Rollerdude123]

The flaw in your argument is an obvious one:

Other teams can get better too- and some might get better faster and go further in their development- and that is ultimately reflected in your win/loss record.

Saying you are "improved" while other teams also improve- and maybe improve faster ultimately means you aren't any better than you were before where it counts - on the scoreboard.

A basic example of this is Auburn. I am not predicting anything for Auburn. But I do know Bruce Pearl took over a damaged program (he himself not even able to recruit off campus), they aren't good - Pearl put together a mashup up Jucos, transfers, and even a former walk on- and they beat South Carolina.

I also know Tennessee- (not a great team by any means) came into Colonial Life Arena with 3 returning scholarship players and a new coach and beat us.

That is why your won/loss record is what matters. It reflects reality in comparison to your conference foes versus say- opinions



Originally posted by ReadR00ster:

100% horsecrap. Win or lose you are getting better if you play better basketball and it's OBVIOUS by anyone who knows anything about basketball that this team is playing better than the last two years, especially when we are not almost completely relying on Brison Williams to shoot to give us hope to win. I am not guessing, I just know the difference between what decent and crappy basketball looks like and you apparently don't.



This post was edited on 1/25 11:40 PM by ReadR00ster

This post was edited on 1/26 9:19 AM by Rollerdude123

 

[jerryusc]

Me, after reading some of these posts. There is a similarity between FM and Krtigjggdkpo at Duke in that their first three seasons were nothing to brag about. It may take FM six more years to right this once sinking ship of a BB pgm and he is about the only one who is a decent coach who would come to USC and try to do it. FM is a tower of a BB coach compared to Harvey Milquetoast and frat boy.


Now my lip is dragging the floor.

 

[gamecockjosh]

If we could get a guy to step up and make some 3's, we could beat any team in the SEC with the exception of Kentucky. When we were shooting well in December we were thrashing our opponents. We're not as far off as some on here believe and our recruiting is trending upward. I expect Martin to have us in the NCAA's by year 5.....or next year if someone can learn how to shoot.

 

[uscfan1981]

Originally posted by ToddFlanders:
I like Martin's progress so far (mostly because it's the first progress in the upward direction the program has had in seven years). However, please stop with the Coach K analogy (and this goes for every coach that has a slow start to his career).

Yes, arguably the greatest basketball coach of all time was able to turn things around after three pedestrian years to start his career at Duke. But he did that because HE'S ARGUABLY THE GREATEST COACH OF ALL TIME. For every hall-of-fame coach that has a tough couple of years before they turn things around, there's 100 coaches that didn't cut it and never turned it around (Darrin Horn comes to mind and he should have been fired after year 3).

Again, I like Martin's progress so far, but Coach K's career has no bearing on, or similarity to, Martin's career.

There's no place for logic on this forum.