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sclawman77

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Jun 27, 2011
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Ray set us back 10 years in football thanks to the pathetic hire of Muschamp. That alone should be grounds for termination or forced retirement. But not at Carolina. Beamer has a long ways to go before fielding a consistently competitive team. I still have serious doubts. Martin is a disaster and should have been gone years ago. Kingston has been an underachievement too. The CWS years are now a decade ago. But Ray will do his usual which is talk up facilities and women's basketball. He is determined to retire in 2024 on his own terms. His legacy as a baseball coach was legendary. As an AD he leaves a very forgettable legacy. He should have done the honorable thing and retired by now but he's too greedy to do that. Along with all the other fat cats in the administration who couldn't care less how many games we lose as long as they get paid.
 
Ray set us back 10 years in football thanks to the pathetic hire of Muschamp. That alone should be grounds for termination or forced retirement. But not at Carolina. Beamer has a long ways to go before fielding a consistently competitive team. I still have serious doubts. Martin is a disaster and should have been gone years ago. Kingston has been an underachievement too. The CWS years are now a decade ago. But Ray will do his usual which is talk up facilities and women's basketball. He is determined to retire in 2024 on his own terms. His legacy as a baseball coach was legendary. As an AD he leaves a very forgettable legacy. He should have done the honorable thing and retired by now but he's too greedy to do that. Along with all the other fat cats in the administration who couldn't care less how many games we lose as long as they get paid.
Original. Haven't heard these complaints on this board.
 
How is Nebraska doing?, how are 100 other programs doing? You think Carolina has a traditional history to offer in bb, fb, or any other sports besides WBB? HELL no. Be realistic. We have 116 years of sports, 2 baseball natty's , 2 WBB natty's and 1 ACC championship. Get your head out your butt and be realistic. For the next 10 years, if we are 9-3 or 8-4 or close, its a win win. We ARE NOT a powerhouse and it has very little to do with Tanner.
 
Ray set us back 10 years in football thanks to the pathetic hire of Muschamp. That alone should be grounds for termination or forced retirement. But not at Carolina. Beamer has a long ways to go before fielding a consistently competitive team. I still have serious doubts. Martin is a disaster and should have been gone years ago. Kingston has been an underachievement too. The CWS years are now a decade ago. But Ray will do his usual which is talk up facilities and women's basketball. He is determined to retire in 2024 on his own terms. His legacy as a baseball coach was legendary. As an AD he leaves a very forgettable legacy. He should have done the honorable thing and retired by now but he's too greedy to do that. Along with all the other fat cats in the administration who couldn't care less how many games we lose as long as they get paid.
blah blah blah
 
How is Nebraska doing?, how are 100 other programs doing? You think Carolina has a traditional history to offer in bb, fb, or any other sports besides WBB? HELL no. Be realistic. We have 116 years of sports, 2 baseball natty's , 2 WBB natty's and 1 ACC championship. Get your head out your butt and be realistic. For the next 10 years, if we are 9-3 or 8-4 or close, its a win win. We ARE NOT a powerhouse and it has very little to do with Tanner.
Lmao
 
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How is Nebraska doing?, how are 100 other programs doing? You think Carolina has a traditional history to offer in bb, fb, or any other sports besides WBB? HELL no. Be realistic. We have 116 years of sports, 2 baseball natty's , 2 WBB natty's and 1 ACC championship. Get your head out your butt and be realistic. For the next 10 years, if we are 9-3 or 8-4 or close, its a win win. We ARE NOT a powerhouse and it has very little to do with Tanner.
So, let’s say there is a corporation. It is more or less break even over its history. The board hires a new CEO. They pay him the same amount as the CEOs at Apple, Microsoft, Disney, Coca Cola, and the other blue-chip companies. After 10 years of “leadership” the most important two divisions of the company are terrible and the company is, overall, still just break-even/average.
Does this company need to make a change? Or should they decide, “Well, I know we are spending blue-chip money but we shouldn’t hold our CEO accountable for his penny-stock results.”
 
It's not like many of us didn't say that hiring Ray for this position would be a complete disaster. We were saying "Told you so" after it proved out, but that was so long ago that most of us have thrown in the towel. What took you so long to catch up?

ETA- Oh. I see the thread where we got smoked by Coastal in basketball. It has been so long since I followed Carolina Hoops, I couldn't name a single player. Sad.
 
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So, let’s say there is a corporation. It is more or less break even over its history. The board hires a new CEO. They pay him the same amount as the CEOs at Apple, Microsoft, Disney, Coca Cola, and the other blue-chip companies. After 10 years of “leadership” the most important two divisions of the company are terrible and the company is, overall, still just break-even/average.
Does this company need to make a change? Or should they decide, “Well, I know we are spending blue-chip money but we shouldn’t hold our CEO accountable for his penny-stock results.”
The fallacy of this argument is that Ray has powers like a CEO. It doesn't exist at USC and it doesn't exist at many Universities throughout the NCAA (it can be the AD, the BOT or the President or a mixture). However, we always have to have the iconography of evil or the mere fact that people can't understand that authority can exist outside of one person. The person to blame shields the people who actually exercise the power. If you couldn't see how much power Tanner lacked during the Martin contract saga post-season or the manner in which Beamer was hired then I can't help you.

Keep focusing on the figure and you're never going to solve the problem. Bring in a new AD without authority and you either have a new scapegoat or a new hero who didn't do anything to earn the praise.

The new President should be a good indication of whether the power will remain with BOT or if there is really a shift.
 
I don’t agree with the part of our fanbase that says we should stop complaining about being mediocre in football and settle for an average season popping up between many horrible ones because it’s the way it’s always been. With the right leadership we can have a very competitive team and winning culture. It’s seems clear to me that Ray Tanner isn’t the guy for the job to build that. Not even close. I wish the University would part ways with him a make a home run A/D hire. Cause ol’ Ray keeps striking out. Any University that is a traditional “power house” in athletics would have relieved him of his duties as soon as he suggested making Muschamp H/C…..
 
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The fallacy of this argument is that Ray has powers like a CEO. It doesn't exist at USC and it doesn't exist at many Universities throughout the NCAA (it can be the AD, the BOT or the President or a mixture). However, we always have to have the iconography of evil or the mere fact that people can't understand that authority can exist outside of one person. The person to blame shields the people who actually exercise the power. If you couldn't see how much power Tanner lacked during the Martin contract saga post-season or the manner in which Beamer was hired then I can't help you.

Keep focusing on the figure and you're never going to solve the problem. Bring in a new AD without authority and you either have a new scapegoat or a new hero who didn't do anything to earn the praise.

The new President should be a good indication of whether the power will remain with BOT or if there is really a shift.
Maybe my memory isn’t a good as I think it is, but I don’t remember hearing about the AD position not having any real power during McGee or Hyman’s reigns. Maybe the BOT does hold the power…and maybe they hold it because this AD goes along with them. If someone kept hamstringing me at my job, I kind of think I’d start looking elsewhere.
 
How is Nebraska doing?, how are 100 other programs doing? You think Carolina has a traditional history to offer in bb, fb, or any other sports besides WBB? HELL no. Be realistic. We have 116 years of sports, 2 baseball natty's , 2 WBB natty's and 1 ACC championship. Get your head out your butt and be realistic. For the next 10 years, if we are 9-3 or 8-4 or close, its a win win. We ARE NOT a powerhouse and it has very little to do with Tanner.
Four ACC championships: 1969 football, 1971 basketball, 1964 Golf (co-champions with Maryland), and 1968 Tennis (co-champions with UnCarolina). Women's varsity competition did not begin until after we left the league.
 
Maybe my memory isn’t a good as I think it is, but I don’t remember hearing about the AD position not having any real power during McGee or Hyman’s reigns. Maybe the BOT does hold the power…and maybe they hold it because this AD goes along with them. If someone kept hamstringing me at my job, I kind of think I’d start looking elsewhere.
What facilities were built during their tenures? Why were we falling so behind in athletic facilities during their tenures? Why were we flirting with loss of scholarships due to our APR?
 
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Ray set us back 10 years in football thanks to the pathetic hire of Muschamp. That alone should be grounds for termination or forced retirement. But not at Carolina. Beamer has a long ways to go before fielding a consistently competitive team. I still have serious doubts. Martin is a disaster and should have been gone years ago. Kingston has been an underachievement too. The CWS years are now a decade ago. But Ray will do his usual which is talk up facilities and women's basketball. He is determined to retire in 2024 on his own terms. His legacy as a baseball coach was legendary. As an AD he leaves a very forgettable legacy. He should have done the honorable thing and retired by now but he's too greedy to do that. Along with all the other fat cats in the administration who couldn't care less how many games we lose as long as they get paid.
The “Fat Cats” sounds like our government.
 
The fallacy of this argument is that Ray has powers like a CEO. It doesn't exist at USC and it doesn't exist at many Universities throughout the NCAA (it can be the AD, the BOT or the President or a mixture). However, we always have to have the iconography of evil or the mere fact that people can't understand that authority can exist outside of one person. The person to blame shields the people who actually exercise the power. If you couldn't see how much power Tanner lacked during the Martin contract saga post-season or the manner in which Beamer was hired then I can't help you.

Keep focusing on the figure and you're never going to solve the problem. Bring in a new AD without authority and you either have a new scapegoat or a new hero who didn't do anything to earn the praise.

The new President should be a good indication of whether the power will remain with BOT or if there is really a shift.
Very well said!
 
The fallacy of this argument is that Ray has powers like a CEO. It doesn't exist at USC and it doesn't exist at many Universities throughout the NCAA (it can be the AD, the BOT or the President or a mixture). However, we always have to have the iconography of evil or the mere fact that people can't understand that authority can exist outside of one person. The person to blame shields the people who actually exercise the power. If you couldn't see how much power Tanner lacked during the Martin contract saga post-season or the manner in which Beamer was hired then I can't help you.

Keep focusing on the figure and you're never going to solve the problem. Bring in a new AD without authority and you either have a new scapegoat or a new hero who didn't do anything to earn the praise.

The new President should be a good indication of whether the power will remain with BOT or if there is really a shift.
That's exactly right. The BOT wanted control and they got it. Since then, it's been a dumpster fire within a train wreck. But I see no indication it will change soon.
 
What facilities were built during their tenures? Why were we falling so behind in athletic facilities during their tenures? Why were we flirting with loss of scholarships due to our APR?
There is he on queue. The Tanner fan boy arguing we should be ok with terrible mens sports because the football team's GPA is decent. Yay, Go Tanner!
 
Oh and all the previous athletic directors produced powerhouses in all sports? come on man.
Not sure anyone is asking Tanner to produce "powerhouse" men's sports. But maybe we can all agree its realistic to expect us not to lose to Clemson 7 freaking years in a row and a men's basketball team that doesnt get blown out of the gym by freaking Coastal.
 
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The fallacy of this argument is that Ray has powers like a CEO. It doesn't exist at USC and it doesn't exist at many Universities throughout the NCAA (it can be the AD, the BOT or the President or a mixture). However, we always have to have the iconography of evil or the mere fact that people can't understand that authority can exist outside of one person. The person to blame shields the people who actually exercise the power. If you couldn't see how much power Tanner lacked during the Martin contract saga post-season or the manner in which Beamer was hired then I can't help you.

Keep focusing on the figure and you're never going to solve the problem. Bring in a new AD without authority and you either have a new scapegoat or a new hero who didn't do anything to earn the praise.

The new President should be a good indication of whether the power will remain with BOT or if there is really a shift.
Dont agree with this. One of the main responsibilities of the AD and university President is to move the BOT to where they need them to be on key decisions. That is where skill and experience come in and we all know Tanner had none of that and the former university President.....well....

One of the major things the AD does is evaluate the sports programs and make decisions on coaches, when its time to give contract extensions, when its time to remove and move on and who to hire. When RT was caught flat footed with the mid-season quit of SOS, it was his job to find a good replacement and then convince the President and BOT that person was the right one for the job and should be hired. And we all know what happened.

Tanner has gotten soooo many chances at this job that no one should have been given. And ultimately, its the men's programs that have suffered.
 
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Can't answer the questions, huh?
Yay GPA! I will dream of that when watching one of our division rivals play in Atlanta on Saturday and maybe again while I watch our basketball team lose to Clemson again coming up soon.
 
Yay GPA! I will dream of that when watching one of our division rivals play in Atlanta on Saturday and maybe again while I watch our basketball team lose to Clemson again coming up soon.
What about facilities? Funny that you bring up being able to move the President and the BOT in the direction that is needed. Who the hell do you think did that to get all those shiny new facilities built? It damn sure wasn't McGee or Hyman. Which was one reason Hyman quickly lost his subsequent job at TAMU.
 
You can, and should, complain about this to your heart's content. Pumpers who complain that this is posted too often are ostriches with their heads buried in the sand.

Ray Tanner is a disaster. Should have never been hired. After that colossal mistake, his tears at the Spurrier/presser, his bumbling through the search, then the subsequent Muschamp hiring was clue enough to get him out of there. But no, we sit idly by while he gives that loser a huge buyout.

Jeez, man...only my school would continue to employ someone so clearly out of their depth at such a critical position.
 
What about facilities? Funny that you bring up being able to move the President and the BOT in the direction that is needed. Who the hell do you think did that to get all those shiny new facilities built? It damn sure wasn't McGee or Hyman. Which was one reason Hyman quickly lost his subsequent job at TAMU.
Is that you, Karen Tanner?
 
So, let’s say there is a corporation. It is more or less break even over its history. The board hires a new CEO. They pay him the same amount as the CEOs at Apple, Microsoft, Disney, Coca Cola, and the other blue-chip companies. After 10 years of “leadership” the most important two divisions of the company are terrible and the company is, overall, still just break-even/average.
Does this company need to make a change? Or should they decide, “Well, I know we are spending blue-chip money but we shouldn’t hold our CEO accountable for his penny-stock results.”
Yeah or “Hey let’s wait another 4 years for the CEO to retire. Then we’ll try to do it right.”
 
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It's not like many of us didn't say that hiring Ray for this position would be a complete disaster. We were saying "Told you so" after it proved out, but that was so long ago that most of us have thrown in the towel. What took you so long to catch up?

ETA- Oh. I see the thread where we got smoked by Coastal in basketball. It has been so long since I followed Carolina Hoops, I couldn't name a single player. Sad.
Is Coastal really 24 points better than we are? I really thought we were better than that!
 
Say what you will but regardless of those "shiny new facilities", Tanner was the wrong hire for the AD position. He's in over his head. And baseball has gone to hell in a handbasket since he was given the job.
 
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Say what you will but regardless of those "shiny new facilities", Tanner was the wrong hire for the AD position. He's in over his head. And baseball has gone to hell in a handbasket since he was given the job.
What is wrong with Kingston? He has started recruiting at the level that only Tanner did. Complain all you want about how Holbrook turned out, but he was one of the hottest coaching prospects in the country when he took over.

Would you have preferred Monte like some others wanted? Heck, Clemson fans will hand him over as quickly as you ask.
 
What facilities were built during their tenures? Why were we falling so behind in athletic facilities during their tenures? Why were we flirting with loss of scholarships due to our APR?
I can't speak for McGee, but are you kidding about facilities during the Hyman era? He got almost EVERYTHING started in our facilities upgrade.
 
I can't speak for McGee, but are you kidding about facilities during the Hyman era? He got almost EVERYTHING started in our facilities upgrade.
No, he did not. He commissioned an architectural firm to design the plans. Spurrier was crucial in getting the Dodie built....Spurrier is the one who got the seed money from Mrs. Anderson. The baseball facility was all Tanner from the design to the acquistion of the land to the getting of the seed money and going to the BOT to get the funding. The plans for the remaining facilities sat for several years until Tanner took over. Hyman was very professional but not exceedingly personable, especially in trying to get donors to give to projects.
 
What is wrong with Kingston? He has started recruiting at the level that only Tanner did. Complain all you want about how Holbrook turned out, but he was one of the hottest coaching prospects in the country when he took over.

Would you have preferred Monte like some others wanted? Heck, Clemson fans will hand him over as quickly as you ask.
Every AD in his right mind would have hired Holbrook. He was the hottest asst coach out there, and he would have gotten a premium HC job somewhere else if we hadn't made the move. Hindsight is 20/20. We now know that he was better as an asst coach than a HC.

Kingston has another year or two IMO. Baseball recruiting is not one bit comparable to football, it's vastly different. Early commitments, the draft, scholarship limitations, it's a minefield for a baseball coach. This will be one of the first years that he has "his guys, his recruits". If Kingston is going to be they guy, we'll see it pay off in the next year or two. You almost always have to give a new baseball coach that wasn't previously on staff 5 years.
 
Every AD in his right mind would have hired Holbrook. He was the hottest asst coach out there, and he would have gotten a premium HC job somewhere else if we hadn't made the move. Hindsight is 20/20. We now know that he was better as an asst coach than a HC.

Kingston has another year or two IMO. Baseball recruiting is not one bit comparable to football, it's vastly different. Early commitments, the draft, scholarship limitations, it's a minefield for a baseball coach. This will be one of the first years that he has "his guys, his recruits". If Kingston is going to be they guy, we'll see it pay off in the next year or two. You almost always have to give a new baseball coach that wasn't previously on staff 5 years.
Completely agree.
 
Facilities? LMFAO.

A solid gold toilet won't cover up the smell of that dump you just took.
 
What facilities were built during their tenures? Why were we falling so behind in athletic facilities during their tenures? Why were we flirting with loss of scholarships due to our APR?
McGee -
South Upper at WB
CLA
Stone Stadium
Beckham Field

Hyman -
Carolina Stadium

APR wasn't instituted until 2003, and overall we've done well compared to other schools. We are consistently in the top 2 of the SEC academically.
 
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McGee -
South Upper at WB
CLA
Stone Stadium
Beckham Field

Hyman -
Carolina Stadium
CLA had as much to do with the City of Columbia as anything or anyone. They wanted a large indoor concert venue. It was supposed to be the first cooperative project between the "town and gown" in many years.

Beckham Field has been completely replaced. Stone Stadium has also recieved major improvements. And, you of all people, know Hyman had little to nothing to do with Founder's Park other than put Tanner in charge of it.
 
CLA had as much to do with the City of Columbia as anything or anyone. They wanted a large indoor concert venue. It was supposed to be the first cooperative project between the "town and gown" in many years.

Beckham Field has been completely replaced. Stone Stadium has also recieved major improvements. And, you of all people, know Hyman had little to nothing to do with Founder's Park other than put Tanner in charge of it.
You asked what was built during their tenures. I answered.

Also, as to the CLA, the city was pushing for it to be more of a Convention Center than an Arena, and tried to get the University to do "what was best for the City". McGee reminded the City that his job is to do what's best for the University, not the City. If they wanted a Convention Center then they needed to build a separate one. And look at that...we have both.

Further as to APR, we've only lost 1 MBB scholarship in each of the 2005-2006, and 2006-2007 academic years.

 
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Touche'

True...but we were in jeopardy of losing additional scholarships over a couple of other sports.
In the first couple years of it being instituted, perhaps. But after that, our scores increased dramatically and have stayed well above the threshold. MBB was consistently the worst of all sports until the last 10 years.
 
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